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    Do you think Cayman will impact 997/996 sales?

    I'd say this is a relevant question given I myself put down a deposit for a 997 last summer, I decided after the testdrive in September not to proceed with the 997 and have decided to pursue either:

    A. Buy a used 996 TT in the summer if prices fall further due to owners selling in anticipation of the 997 TT

    B. Wait for the widebody 997 or even GT version to arrive

    but there is also:

    C. I could also opt for the Cayman if rumours of a CS version is true or go for the S version (debadged of course )

    I think the Cayman is may have an effect on the average customer who may not regard the rear engine layout of the 911 as a key USP so may be tempted to opt for the Cayman S as it's a lot cheaper and is not afraid to announce to his friends he's just bought a car with the most gay-sounding name ever

    So guys what do think? What's your perception of this car?

    Re: Do you think Cayman will impact 997/996 sales?

    It depends on the performance of the Cayman which is to be determined... If its too close to the Carrera then I think people might be persuaded to go for a Cayman and save the cash. But the over all package of a 997 should overcome this... It was the same situation years ago when the Boxster S came out and the 300bhp Carrera 2 looked kind of expensive next to it... So Porsche upped the power and face lifted the 996 to distance it...

    I hope Porsche make the Cayman a very sport orientated model...Low on options high on performance...a sort of junior GT3 if you like..

    Re: Do you think Cayman will impact 997/996 sales?

    Here's the list of cars I've owned so far:

    VW Golf GTi MK 4
    Lotus Elise 111S (S2)
    Mini Cooper
    BMW M3 E46

    If you look at the list I've tried FWD, RWD and front and mid-engine and as I've aspired to own a 911 for as long as I remember, plus I've yet to own a rear-engined car...if I did go for a Cayman I'm sure there would be a niggling thought in the back of my mind that for a few grand more I could have got that 911 I've always wanted...

    Re: Do you think Cayman will impact 997/996 sales?

    I think the Cayman was a mistake, especially since it is actually "only" a Boxster Coupe but Porsche wants to sell it as a product "above" the Boxster but "below" the 911.
    In my opinion, the Cayman will seriously hurt 911 sales, more than Boxster sales.
    It would have been a different story with 380 HP in the Carrera S and 350 HP in the Carrera 2 but considering the much better weight/power ration of the Cayman compared to the Carrera 2, I'm afraid people will choose the better performer. So far, I heard that the Cayman S is close to Carrera 2 performance and on the track, well...

    What is the price and performance figures for the Cayman S?

    Has anyone seen official pricing and what's standard and what's optional?

    Has anyone seen performance data yet? 0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile, etc?

    That will tell you whether Porsche have cooked their own goose or not.

    My guess is that they have, like Goldilocks, found something that's just right; taking sales away from the Audi TT, BMW 3 Series Coupe, SLK etc. but not damaging the profit mix of the range by taking too many sales from the 911. Which would you prefer to sell if you were Porsche? A fully optioned Cayman, or a bare bones 997?

    At the end of the day if you're the good Doctor W. do you give sh*t if you lose sales from one model (the 911) but you bring more euro's to the bottom line? That's what shareholders will demand after all...

    Re: What is the price and performance figures for the Cayma

    Quote:
    Le Chef said:
    Has anyone seen official pricing and what's standard and what's optional?

    Has anyone seen performance data yet? 0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile, etc?

    That will tell you whether Porsche have cooked their own goose or not.

    My guess is that they have, like Goldilocks, found something that's just right; taking sales away from the Audi TT, BMW 3 Series Coupe, SLK etc. but not damaging the profit mix of the range by taking too many sales from the 911. Which would you prefer to sell if you were Porsche? A fully optioned Cayman, or a bare bones 997?

    At the end of the day if you're the good Doctor W. do you give sh*t if you lose sales from one model (the 911) but you bring more euro's to the bottom line? That's what shareholders will demand after all...



    Makes sense. I think regardless of stats the Cayman will have the stigma of a "glorified Boxster" and when it comes right down to it the 911 will continue as a premier P-car. Personally I first opted for the Boxster as the 911 was out of my range(still desiring the 911) and when the time came to obtain a 997 I felt I was getting what I really wanted all along, heritage and all.

    Re: What is the price and performance figures for the Cayman S?

    Quote:
    Le Chef said:
    ...My guess is that they have, like Goldilocks, found something that's just right; taking sales away from the Audi TT, BMW 3 Series Coupe, SLK etc. ...



    A standard Cayman would compete against those models above based on performance and price. The Cayman S would compete against the BMW M3, the Corvette, and the standard 997 based on price and performance.

    Re: What is the price and performance figures for the Cayman S?

    Quote:
    vtrader said:
    Quote:
    Le Chef said:
    ...My guess is that they have, like Goldilocks, found something that's just right; taking sales away from the Audi TT, BMW 3 Series Coupe, SLK etc. ...



    A standard Cayman would compete against those models above based on performance and price. The Cayman S would compete against the BMW M3, the Corvette, and the standard 997 based on price and performance.



    i hear the next m3 will have 400hp !

    Re: What is the price and performance figures for the Cayma

    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    Quote:
    vtrader said:
    Quote:
    Le Chef said:
    ...My guess is that they have, like Goldilocks, found something that's just right; taking sales away from the Audi TT, BMW 3 Series Coupe, SLK etc. ...



    A standard Cayman would compete against those models above based on performance and price. The Cayman S would compete against the BMW M3, the Corvette, and the standard 997 based on price and performance.



    i hear the next m3 will have 400hp !



    An so will the Z4. These are competitors for the 997S not the 997 or Cayman S.

    997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    I bought my Boxster S because I wanted a roadster. I would buy the Cayman if it has the performance to at least match the 997 without S and it should be able to keep up with a 997 S on a winding road. If not I would spend the extra $ and gor for a 997 (S).

    I think the Cayman will hurt the standard 997, who wants to have his ass kicked by an entry level Porsche Coupe ... ther goes your prestige
    Zürich

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    Quote:
    Zürich said:
    ...I think the Cayman will hurt the standard 997, who wants to have his ass kicked by an entry level Porsche Coupe ... ther goes your prestige
    Zürich


    If you put the Cayman S next to the 997, even though the Cayman S is a nice car and it performance approaches a base 997, its no 911. The base 997 is a 911 and there is something special about the 911. The styling, the interior, are better on the 911. THe Cayman's performance only approaches a 911, not kicked ass better. There is a difference.

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    Quote:
    vtrader said:
    Quote:
    Zürich said:
    ...I think the Cayman will hurt the standard 997, who wants to have his ass kicked by an entry level Porsche Coupe ... ther goes your prestige
    Zürich


    If you put the Cayman S next to the 997, even though the Cayman S is a nice car and it performance approaches a base 997, its no 911. The base 997 is a 911 and there is something special about the 911. The styling, the interior, are better on the 911. THe Cayman's performance only approaches a 911, not kicked ass better. There is a difference.



    You are a lucky man if you've seen the Cayman S alreay... but seriously that's nonsense what you are saying. The styling and interiour are important, but what counts is performance on the road. If I want a nice interiour there are better cars than the 997. If I want styling I buy a Mini.
    Zürich

    Re: Do you think Cayman will impact 997/996 sales?

    Some interesting opinions expressed so far.

    However, all we have seen so far are just spyshots. We haven't seen any official photos yet. Personally, I don't buy a car just based on its performance and technical specifications although these are obviously very important factors, especially in a sports car. However, I buy it also because I have fallen for its looks. So it's possible that the Cayman S may be nearly as good as the Carrera on paper but may be aesthetically less attractive than a Carrera to some buyers who may be prepared to pay some more for the car they really like the look of.

    I wonder ... people here who have expressed their view may already have owned or may currently own a Porsche. However, I fall within the category of people who dream of owning a Porsche one day. I think it's exactly the sector that Porsche is trying to tap into by the introduction of various cheaper models. But will I feel satisfied if I buy a cheaper version of what I have always wanted? As a boy I always had posters of cars on my bedroom wall. I dreamed of getting a BMW, a Porsche etc. I am very happy with my BMW 328i but one day, I hope to move up to a Porsche. Somehow, if I buy a Cayman S, whenever I see a Carrera or Carrera S, I will always regret not buying a 911. I guess there will be other people who will also think that way too. It's hard to put aside an icon with 41 years of sporting pedigree and buy a completely new model.

    Turning aside from those very personal thoughts, looking at the tiny amount of information we have so far for the Cayman S:

    Boxster 2.7L 240 bhp
    Boxster S 3.2L 280 bhp
    Cayman S 3.4L 295 bhp
    Carrera 3.6L 325 bhp
    Carrera S 3.8L 355 bhp

    As far as I am concerned, the price difference from Boxster S through Cayman S to Carrera is about GBP21,000 and yet there are 3 engines within this range with only 0.2L difference between them. Similarly, the power increment is from 280bhp through 295 bhp to 325 bhp. One has to be a real Porsche officionado to value these small engine size and power output increases which involve correspondingly large price increases.

    This would be absolutely fine if looked at in a vacuum. However, set against the backdrop of a horsepower rivalry between BMW, Audi and Mercedes Benz (amongst others), the fine distinctions behind these small engine size and power output rises makes this approach look difficult to justify. Granted, a car is much much more than just power and straight line speed. A Porsche will outdo around a track anything BMW, Audi or Mercedes Benz can produce. However, most of us don't track our cars. Most of us simply use these cars everyday for work or pleasure on public roads. As such, Porsche should realise that from a competitive standpoint, this makes the brand look like its being left behind. Porsche should compete with other manufacturers on power too so the power output differences between models can be more spread out which in turn will help people find the right model for them more easily.

    As for the Cayman S webspecial, I was disappointed that there were no photos. This isn't a teaser trailer for a new movie. It's a new luxury sports car and we should be accorded a little more respect than that.

    I fear that Porsche may have wounded sales of the base Carrera by the introduction of the Cayman S even though the Boxster and the Cayman S may feel totally different to drive than the Carrera just because of the relatively small difference in technical specifications on paper and the relatively large price difference between them.

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    I have to agree with vtrader, performance isn't everything, especially when we're talking about the "legend" 911.
    For me performance counts a lot but I know enough people who bought a 911 because it is the 911. They probably think that the reputation of the 911 somehow transfers to the driver and they may be right if I hear the comments from people who don't own a 911, especially women.
    Lately however, I get the feeling that Porsche doesn't look upon the 911 anymore as if it is their main product, their legend, the classic definition of the brand Porsche.
    The Cayman may be the first by purpose "attack" on the 911 to test the markets and customers.

    I'm not sure the Cayman hurts Boxster sales because the Boxster is a roadster. But people who always wanted a 911 but never bought it because of the high price tag or because they didn't want the two rear seats, may re-consider their decision now.

    To me personally as a Porsche addict and longtime Porsche customer, the Cayman doesn't make sense at all. For Porsche marketing, the Cayman is a closed roof Boxster they can sell at a premium by introducing a new name, a new(?) concept and adding 15 lame horses to it. And I bet there will be a lot of people who take the "bait".

    Of course the Cayman S is a great car, no doubt about it if it stands to specs. But I get the feeling the Cayman is the answer to a question nobody asked.
    Is this the "lightweight" and very sporty Boxster model people demanded for years? I doubt it. To be honest, I like Carlos' Boxster RS/GT "concept" much more.

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The Cayman may be the first by purpose "attack" on the 911 to test the markets and customers.




    Exactly what I was thinking.

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    Quote:
    RC said:
    They probably think that the reputation of the 911 somehow transfers to the driver and they may be right if I hear the comments from people who don't own a 911, especially women.



    RC I would like to meet those women... or maybe not ... all the woman, or say most, I know could not care less what car a guy is driving. There was a survey a year ago about what car a woman would like to see a man drive in, The Ford Puma topped the list...
    Zürich

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    It's called market research.

    The car is not for us guys.
    Apparently there is a sector of the demography that wants this car - and I can almost guarantee none of us on this board are in that demographic region.

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    All interesting opinions.....

    No doubt the Cayman will be a great fun car to drive.....but will it sell and to whom? If Porsche gets its way and places pricing between the Boxster S and 911 there will be very few Audi TT, MB SLK, BMW, C7 cross-shoppers in my opinion.....the $10 - $15K premium over the above will just be too much to shell out for most.....it will pretty much be put in its own class with a narrow set of buyers......could be good or bad.

    As far as what question has been asked and if the Cayman is the answer? I for one have been waiting *years* for an affordable coupe from Porsche, begging my dealer to take a deposit when I heard the first rumor back in mid-2004. No, I didn't want a sub $40K car......but a special car priced around the $50K mark. I don't need it to have more power than a Boxster S.....that's fast enough for me, especially since the coupe should be lighter in the first place.

    There are many owners of previous generation 944/968/911/928 cars that want something new from Porsche but don't want to sell their house or spend their kids college fund to get it.....I'm one of them. For Porsche to answer this question with what is basically a Boxster Coupe with a few more ponies for a lot more money......is very dishearting to me.

    I'm really starting to lose my respect for the brand. They can shove out tons of Cayennes each year....low powered base models included......but continue to distance themselves from some people who have "kept the Porsche faith" for many years. I guess they really don't want me as a customer unless I'm ready to drop $65K with no questions asked. Sad....

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    I m not happy at all with that Cayman f...ng gay story

    This will definetely hurt the carrera image if not sales

    and what i dont like the most is the back part of the cayman which resembles the carrera.. I have the feeling Porsche is trying to death to create the poor man's carrera
    But that will lead many people to other marques, for example the new Aston V8 Vantage

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    and by the way i dont like that car at all its a mixture of already succesful scenarios but mixtures are always drawbacks

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    I have no desire for a Cayman. For whatever reason, psycho-analyze it as best you can, I look at the Boxster and the upcoming Cayman as too "cutesy" for me. There's something about the content and personality of the 911 that suits me, whereas when I look at a Boxster, in whatever form (coupe/roadster), I just go cold and can't get the least bit excited about it. I think it's an addiction to flagships. When I buy into a marque, I have a real hankering for the big brother, not the little brothers and sisters, and it may be all in my head, but it also exists in content and packaging and the tangible car. I think the Lotus Elise is an excellent example of how you can build an incredibly nimble and athletic performance machine, but it just doesn't seem like all I would want in a car, it's a compromise of this to get that. Purists cringe at the words "luxury" and "size" when referring to the 911, but the 911 delivers hard in many more aspects than just performance, yet it also still delivers performance superior to most anything. Even if the Cayman is on-par performance-wise, it's no 911. It may steal some sales away from the 911, but WTH, Porsche can't keep up with demand as it is. I want my cake, my ice cream, and my cherry, and I want to eat it all too. That's the 911.

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    yes that correct i agree but the existanse of many models does ruine the prestige of the 911. Especially when Porsche cannot deside which model will be their elite

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    I disagree, back in the 924/944/928 days, the existance of all of those different models, one being MORE expensive than the 911, never touched or even laid a scratch on the prestige of the 911, IMHO. It's an icon that has survived everything else that Porsche has tried, cheap-o Porsches (914, 916, 924, 944) and luxo-halo Porsches (928). I think that the Cayman would do more to obscure the Boxster than the 911.

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    The Cayman may be the first by purpose "attack" on the 911 to test the markets and customers.




    Exactly what I was thinking.



    Maybe its Porsche subtle way to go after the 911. It could be they learned from their 928 mistake that going directly against it would meet alot of resistance. Now they are using a softer and less radical approach.

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    928 mistake? It was a profitable line, and it continues to draw "prestige" to the porsche name. It still is the best road car porsche ever built. Well cared for examples still capture the eye and ear of the public. Best car available in all the 80's and early 90's.

    As to the cayman it is just another 951 in relation to the 911 price and performance wise. So i don't think it will "damage" the 911. But the 997 should have more HP.

    Tom

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    928 mistake? It was a profitable line, and it continues to draw "prestige" to the porsche name. It still is the best road car porsche ever built. Well cared for examples still capture the eye and ear of the public. Best car available in all the 80's and early 90's.

    As to the cayman it is just another 951 in relation to the 911 price and performance wise. So i don't think it will "damage" the 911. But the 997 should have more HP.

    Tom


    The mistake was that Porsche said the 928 was the replacement for the 911 and marketed that way at least initially. This is nothing against the car itself, just the way Porsche brought it into the market.

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    You are completely correct, vtrader.

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    Quote:
    928 mistake? It was a profitable line, and it continues to draw "prestige" to the porsche name. It still is the best road car porsche ever built. Well cared for examples still capture the eye and ear of the public. Best car available in all the 80's and early 90's.

    Wow, that's a glowing endorsement... Have you owned one? I have a '79 928 5-speed with only 6,800 original miles. On the plus side, it's built like a Sherman tank (very rigid chassis for its day), and rides and handles very nicely. But the shifter is horrid, as is the clutch feel and takeup. Some of the controls are also flimsy. In short, it's great out on the highway in a single gear, but when you get into the backroads it is clumsy and very unsatisfying compared to a 911. So, as the "best road car", I'd have to say, from my own car, no way... The 928 is the best Aston Martin that the Germans ever built. I can't think of a better all-around road car than the 911, then, and now, which is why it survived and the 928 bellied-up.

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Wow, that's a glowing endorsement... Have you owned one? I have a '79 928 5-speed with only 6,800 original miles. On the plus side, it's built like a Sherman tank (very rigid chassis for its day), and rides and handles very nicely. But the shifter is horrid, as is the clutch feel and takeup. Some of the controls are also flimsy. In short, it's great out on the highway in a single gear, but when you get into the backroads it is clumsy and very unsatisfying compared to a 911. So, as the "best road car", I'd have to say, from my own car, no way... The 928 is the best Aston Martin that the Germans ever built. I can't think of a better all-around road car than the 911, then, and now, which is why it survived and the 928 bellied-up.



    My car;

    http://www.anything-auto.net/EVENTS/CLUB_MEETS/YR121204/yr121204_59.jpg

    As far as your comments - please don't judge all 928's by your version at 219 hp you have a skewed view of later models such as mine at a modestly rated 310 or the gt ot gts. Mine is an auto with the optional 2.54 rear end and it moves. As far as handling i have bee on all out rides with new 911 variants in the triple zone and my car was well within its capabilities. Perhaps your comfort level is different. So yes i fully stand by my comment.

    Re: 997 vs Cayman vs Boxster S

    I like the 928 also, but it certainly was not a huge sales success. In fact, the best of them, the GTS, sold in VERY small numbers...

     
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