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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    KresoF1:

    You should read what I wrote more carefully. First paragraph is about dry unrestriced autobahn in Germany.

    Second paragraph is about wet road or autobahn. 

    On wet autobahn even at 120km/h 991.2 Turbo S or R8 V10 Plus have way more traction then only RWD 570S. So, safety margin is bigger and that inspire more confidence. 

     

    But what are you actually trying to do on the autobahn in the wet? The speed limit in on the vast majority is pretty normal and most of it is straight or long, sweeping turns. In the US, the speed on the expressway while it's raining relatively hard is still 75-80mph, for everyone and every type of car. Hondas, RWD Corvettes, AWD Audis, SUVs, etc. Everyone drives 75-80mph with no problem at all. And in actually rain, not just the wet.

    The idea that a RWD McLaren is less confidence inspiring on the autobahn in the wet is kind of crazy to me because you'd literally have to be going full throttle for some reason and going ridiculously fast for it to make any tangible difference. The confidence doesn't come until very high speeds and rates of acceleration.

    AWD is better in the wet at the limits, but not really so much at reasonable speeds. The speed limits and traffic on the majority of roads are nowhere near the limits, dry or wet, so unless you're driving at absurd speeds, you'll be driving both the McLaren and the Audi at the same speeds.

    AWD has a major advantage over RWD in the snow. In the wet/rain, it will give you better lap times, but in the real world it's usually not very significant at all. 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDJbDdV3UZo

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    The s570 got way more than 570hp!


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Well of course it does.  Some have even joked that they forgot to detune the 650s engine and just stuck it in the 570s.  If you want to take dynos, then the 570s makes about 620-625 at crank, and 535 at wheels.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    KresoF1:

    You should read what I wrote more carefully. First paragraph is about dry unrestriced autobahn in Germany.

    Second paragraph is about wet road or autobahn. 

    On wet autobahn even at 120km/h 991.2 Turbo S or R8 V10 Plus have way more traction then only RWD 570S. So, safety margin is bigger and that inspire more confidence. 

     

    once you have puddles of standing waters (which is vey often on bad european highways) your AWD is good for nothing.

    all in all it is a mixed blessing, certainly advantageous on wet roads but across the board in real life not a 'must have'.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    pmarkow:
    KresoF1:

    You should read what I wrote more carefully. First paragraph is about dry unrestriced autobahn in Germany.

    Second paragraph is about wet road or autobahn. 

    On wet autobahn even at 120km/h 991.2 Turbo S or R8 V10 Plus have way more traction then only RWD 570S. So, safety margin is bigger and that inspire more confidence. 

     

    once you have puddles of standing waters (which is vey often on bad european highways) your AWD is good for nothing.

    all in all it is a mixed blessing, certainly advantageous on wet roads but across the board in real life not a 'must have'.

    Peter, you have never seen me driving on wet roads... Smiley Smiley One reason nobody wants to drive with me when it rains. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
    pmarkow:
    KresoF1:

    You should read what I wrote more carefully. First paragraph is about dry unrestriced autobahn in Germany.

    Second paragraph is about wet road or autobahn. 

    On wet autobahn even at 120km/h 991.2 Turbo S or R8 V10 Plus have way more traction then only RWD 570S. So, safety margin is bigger and that inspire more confidence. 

     

    once you have puddles of standing waters (which is vey often on bad european highways) your AWD is good for nothing.

    all in all it is a mixed blessing, certainly advantageous on wet roads but across the board in real life not a 'must have'.

    Peter, you have never seen me driving on wet roads... Smiley Smiley One reason nobody wants to drive with me when it rains. Smiley

    You're still slow though, so who cares? You're what, maybe a few mph faster than someone in a RWD car?


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:
    RC:
    pmarkow:
    KresoF1:

    You should read what I wrote more carefully. First paragraph is about dry unrestriced autobahn in Germany.

    Second paragraph is about wet road or autobahn. 

    On wet autobahn even at 120km/h 991.2 Turbo S or R8 V10 Plus have way more traction then only RWD 570S. So, safety margin is bigger and that inspire more confidence. 

    once you have puddles of standing waters (which is vey often on bad european highways) your AWD is good for nothing.

    all in all it is a mixed blessing, certainly advantageous on wet roads but across the board in real life not a 'must have'.

    Peter, you have never seen me driving on wet roads... Smiley Smiley One reason nobody wants to drive with me when it rains. Smiley

    You're still slow though, so who cares? You're what, maybe a few mph faster than someone in a RWD car?

    Not when he is wearing this:

    Superman-IV-Christopher-Reeve-special-effect-flying-costume1.jpg


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    noone1:
    RC:
    pmarkow:
    KresoF1:

    You should read what I wrote more carefully. First paragraph is about dry unrestriced autobahn in Germany.

    Second paragraph is about wet road or autobahn. 

    On wet autobahn even at 120km/h 991.2 Turbo S or R8 V10 Plus have way more traction then only RWD 570S. So, safety margin is bigger and that inspire more confidence. 

     

    once you have puddles of standing waters (which is vey often on bad european highways) your AWD is good for nothing.

    all in all it is a mixed blessing, certainly advantageous on wet roads but across the board in real life not a 'must have'.

    Peter, you have never seen me driving on wet roads... Smiley Smiley One reason nobody wants to drive with me when it rains. Smiley

    You're still slow though, so who cares? You're what, maybe a few mph faster than someone in a RWD car?

    This is not only about speed but what you can do with the AWD on modern cars, almost up to a point where physics get you. Basically impossible with a RWD car on wet pavement. Tires are important too in this of course, one reason I prefer  road tires to semi-slicks for my cars.

    @bluelines: I am not Superman (thanks for the flowers), I just know how to drive. Nothing mysterious or heroic about it. Smiley 


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    So, um, what exactly can you do with AWD on your modern car that a good driver in a RWD car can't?


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Well...I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you. Smiley

    Seriously, if both have the same skills, the AWD driver always wins in the wet (assuming that both are on road tires as well). Modern AWD systems have made substantial progress lately, especially in a car like the R8 or the Huracan, where in certain situations, the AWD actually becomes...2WD...variable power/torque distribution, a real miracle.

    You just have to take my word for it but if you don't, I don't mind. I started with AWD very young, over 30 years ago and I perfected my driving style with AWD cars. The latest gen R8 has an amazing AWD setup which allows me to do many stupid things, things you couldn't do in a 2WD car (unless you're completely nuts). The secret is to push it hard until shortly before the tires loose grip and then push it hard again immediately once the tires have grip again. With a 2WD car, good luck with that. No traction control can beat AWD. Again, we are talking about wet roads here, not dry roads. Even on dry roads, AWD has a substantial advantage when you exit curves or even when the tires start degrading (the AWD copes for the loss of grip up to a certain degree). 

    Also, last but not least...not every sports car driver is as talented or skilled as a professional race car driver. AWD makes it sometimes easier to be faster but it also poses a serious danger if you think you can beat physics. Many AWD accidents happen because the drivers just keep going, without thinking about the limitations of the AWD system...and tires. I learned this the hard way (well, almost) when I slipped over all four wheels into a field when I was young. Will never forget that. OK, that car had no ESP but still...it was just dumb.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

     


    --

    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:

    Well...I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you. Smiley

    Seriously, if both have the same skills, the AWD driver always wins in the wet (assuming that both are on road tires as well). Modern AWD systems have made substantial progress lately, especially in a car like the R8 or the Huracan, where in certain situations, the AWD actually becomes...2WD...variable power/torque distribution, a real miracle.

    You just have to take my word for it but if you don't, I don't mind. I started with AWD very young, over 30 years ago and I perfected my driving style with AWD cars. The latest gen R8 has an amazing AWD setup which allows me to do many stupid things, things you couldn't do in a 2WD car (unless you're completely nuts). The secret is to push it hard until shortly before the tires loose grip and then push it hard again immediately once the tires have grip again. With a 2WD car, good luck with that. No traction control can beat AWD. Again, we are talking about wet roads here, not dry roads. Even on dry roads, AWD has a substantial advantage when you exit curves or even when the tires start degrading (the AWD copes for the loss of grip up to a certain degree). 

    Also, last but not least...not every sports car driver is as talented or skilled as a professional race car driver. AWD makes it sometimes easier to be faster but it also poses a serious danger if you think you can beat physics. Many AWD accidents happen because the drivers just keep going, without thinking about the limitations of the AWD system...and tires. I learned this the hard way (well, almost) when I slipped over all four wheels into a field when I was young. Will never forget that. OK, that car had no ESP but still...it was just dumb.

     

    1. Why do you care about being fast in the wet/rain when fast in the wet/rain is still slow and possibly unsafe?
    2. It's not wet the majority of the time anyway, so why would you want to be quicker 33% of the time than 66% of the time, not to mention the drier seasons are typically the nicer ones anyway.

    Doesn't make sense to be drawn to something that excels in the minority of weather conditions.

    Unless it's true torque vectoring like an EV, I'd rather just have a lighter RWD car and accept that in shit , not enjoyable, bad weather it's going to be a little slower. I'm fine with enjoying sunny dry weather and just driving in auto in grey drab rain.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    You don´t understand the rules of this forum!

    1. the best car is always the car RC is driving
    2. RC has always right

    As a moderator I don´t want to tell you twice that you have to follow up our rules here

    Sorry Christian a short joke, we are still good buddies wink


    --

    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:

    You don´t understand the rules of this forum!

    1. the best car is always the car RC is driving
    2. RC has always right

    +1 not only on cars but on every issue & discussion...


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Trying to be fast on public wet roads is beyond me. I never trust the road conditions outside a track, were you learn and can adapt every lap. Deliberately driving  fast in the rain on a public road here is just plain dumb. You can drive like a god, the roads aren't always on par. One day your luck will end. yes

    (I drive in Belgium, I'm an expert in bad roads )

     


    --

    997.2 4S / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:

     

    I don't even have to listen to the video to know that the R8 had road tires and the 570S semi-slicks. This is the only thing which makes sense, so whats the point? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:

    You don´t understand the rules of this forum!

    1. the best car is always the car RC is driving
    2. RC has always right

    As a moderator I don´t want to tell you twice that you have to follow up our rules here

    Sorry Christian a short joke, we are still good buddies wink

    The rules are actually:

    Rule 1: RC is always right

    Rule 2: If RC is not right, rule 1 applies

    Is it really that difficult to get that right? Smiley Smiley

    You seem to be upset that I do not like McLaren but you are wrong. I like McLaren...the 675LT...a lot.

    As a little side note though: I never said or suggested that the R8 is the best car in the world. This is what you (and others) seem to read from my posts, probably because you (and others) flip through my posts without actually reading them. Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    wantone:
    ALDO:

    You don´t understand the rules of this forum!

    1. the best car is always the car RC is driving
    2. RC has always right

    +1 not only on cars but on every issue & discussion...

    Well, I am multi-talented. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    spudgun:

    Trying to be fast on public wet roads is beyond me. I never trust the road conditions outside a track, were you learn and can adapt every lap. Deliberately driving  fast in the rain on a public road here is just plain dumb. You can drive like a god, the roads aren't always on par. One day your luck will endyes

    (I drive in Belgium, I'm an expert in bad roads )

     

    If you are referring to me (some of the posts clearly seem to be addressed to me Smiley): My driving never has anything to do with luck. Others? I don't know, probably.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
     

    I don't even have to listen to the video to know that the R8 had road tires and the 570S semi-slicks. This is the only thing which makes sense, so whats the point? Smiley

    TIL Corsas are semi-slicks. 

    Corsas are daily drivers that perform fine in everything other than snow.

    Besides, weren't you just telling us how amazing the new Pzeros are? 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    The PZeros on my R8 are amazing road tires and pretty good in the wet. They are not track tires though and once they pass 60°C, they degrade pretty fast.

    Corsas are not considered to be road tires, they are semi-slicks (ask Pirelli ). The Corsa is basically on par with the Cup 2.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    No it is not on par. It is not even on par with MPSS.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
    ALDO:

     

    I don't even have to listen to the video to know that the R8 had road tires and the 570S semi-slicks. This is the only thing which makes sense, so whats the point? Smiley

    The point was that this topic was related to McLaren.

    I didn´t want to post it "again R8", it could be any car - don´t take it to seriously. 


    --

    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:
    ALDO:

    You don´t understand the rules of this forum!

    1. the best car is always the car RC is driving
    2. RC has always right

    As a moderator I don´t want to tell you twice that you have to follow up our rules here

    Sorry Christian a short joke, we are still good buddies wink

    The rules are actually:

    Rule 1: RC is always right

    Rule 2: If RC is not right, rule 1 applies

    Is it really that difficult to get that right? Smiley Smiley

    You seem to be upset that I do not like McLaren but you are wrong. I like McLaren...the 675LT...a lot.

    As a little side note though: I never said or suggested that the R8 is the best car in the world. This is what you (and others) seem to read from my posts, probably because you (and others) flip through my posts without actually reading them. Smiley

     

    No my friend, I am not upset and I wasn´t upset for even a moment. I was just kidding with you and the other guy I don´t remember right now his username here.

    What´s going on - you are taking everything so personal today. 


    --

    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    pzero_performace_sport_de-de.jpgPZero profile from Pirelli site

    pzero_corsa_performace_supercar_de-de.jpgPzero Corsa from Pirelli.com


    --

    AM


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    hunterone:

    No it is not on par. It is not even on par with MPSS.

    I do not agree. The Corsa is between the PZero road tire and the Trofeo R. There isn't much difference to the Cup 2 and the Super Sport cannot even get close to it. The Super Sport is a road tire, not a semi-slick.

    So many people are focused on the Trofeo R that they ignore the Corsa completely, especially since the Corsa is better in the wet and probably more suitable for road and track usage. Smiley

    The reputation of the Super Sport is actually better than it's actual performance and again, the Super Sport is no semi-slick but a very good road tire.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ALDO:
    RC:
    ALDO:

    You don´t understand the rules of this forum!

    1. the best car is always the car RC is driving
    2. RC has always right

    As a moderator I don´t want to tell you twice that you have to follow up our rules here

    Sorry Christian a short joke, we are still good buddies wink

    The rules are actually:

    Rule 1: RC is always right

    Rule 2: If RC is not right, rule 1 applies

    Is it really that difficult to get that right? Smiley Smiley

    You seem to be upset that I do not like McLaren but you are wrong. I like McLaren...the 675LT...a lot.

    As a little side note though: I never said or suggested that the R8 is the best car in the world. This is what you (and others) seem to read from my posts, probably because you (and others) flip through my posts without actually reading them. Smiley

     

    No my friend, I am not upset and I wasn´t upset for even a moment. I was just kidding with you and the other guy I don´t remember right now his username here.

    What´s going on - you are taking everything so personal today. 

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Btw: The R8 gets the same new PZero variant the 991.2 Turbo S already uses, the best PZero Pirelli ever made. This tire has basically Cup 2 performance in the dry but the same predecessor PZero performance in the wet.

    http://tyres.pirelli.com/global/en-ww/p-zero-launch-in-germany

    I tried to get this tire this summer but it wasn't available yet for my car, certification wasn't ready (R02 instead of the current R01 designation, I wrote about it in "my" R8 thread).

    For those who don't know: Pirelli has introduced a completely new PZero tire this spring and one of the first cars to get it was the 991.2 Turbo S (of course in a slightly adapted N1 Porsche version).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Something very strange happened to me twice over the last days driving the PZero (991.2 turbo s) on wet roads (no aquaplaning). On one day it was about 7C, the other day maybe like 10C. When braking from about 100/120kph, leaving the Autobahn the car had extremely poor grip, ABS being active immediately and the car was sliding, would not stop until very late. I am still not sure what the reason for this is but it was extremely unusual and dangerously. On Cup tires I would expect this on wet surfaces and temperatures below 10C - but in the above scenario? I am still clueless Smiley Are the PZero so bad in these conditions Smiley


     
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