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    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Quote:
    temm said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:

    I guess you don't know that Alonso when he wins, he salutes with the number of victories he has.



    What happens when he gets to 11?



    Thats exactly what I said when he did it at the end of the race


    Quote:
    temm said:I think the Iceman nickname is totally misplaced, the guy is just full of charm and does not resemble a robot at all.



    His teamate De LA Rosa sais that Kimi is not a cold "iceman" at all, he is very social and "hot blooded" in person, he sais the problem is that he is very shy and he gives that impresion with strangers or in front of the camera

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Quote:
    RR4 said:
    Side note.

    Why is it that Renault and most of the lesser teams are having little problem not just running with but beating Ferrari?

    Could the Bridgestone tires and the fact that the rest of the group runs Michelin - therefore providing Michelin with more feedback - be the only reason?

    Any thoughts?

    R



    Last year the situation was exactly the same and it played in their favor, the Bridgestones gave an even BIGGER advantage to the Ferrari in the yeasr prior than what the Michelins give this year.
    Everybody went into Michelins a few years back after the non-Ferrari teams that had Brigestones got sick and tired of Bridgestone developing the tires for Ferrari specifically, so Ferrari ended up as the only main Bridgestone car beause the other teams went to join the other MIchelin teams, it played to Ferrari's favor in all these years, until now that the Michelins are coing around and turned the situation ober. Of course now after several world championships with Bridgestone advantage, Ferrari starts to cry, nag and complain about the situation... go figure

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Alonso is a outstanding driver, period.

    I enjoy reading the Norwegian and Danish contingent here
    whine about Kimi not winning, moaning when Alonso dares to
    celebrate and then talking in circles about who "should"
    have won.

    Coulda, woulda and shoulda don't translate into Spanish, but apparently they do in the former Swedish counties of Denmark and Norway.

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Coulda, woulda and shoulda don't translate into Spanish, but apparently they do in the former Swedish counties of Denmark and Norway.



    Actually, Sweden and Denmark have invaded eachother many times (though partly and never completely over any period of time), if anything I guess Denmark through history has been more succesfull than Sweden. And while Norway changed hands between Denmark and Sweden through time, Finland (thus Raikkonen forfathers) changed between Sweden, Russia and at a time also Germany. But then of course such logic leaves many interesting statements along the way (US, Spain, England ... pretty much everyone really

    That said, I have to agree that the best man won, as much as I didn't like it
    Kimi were himself responsible for the collapsed tyre, and a race truely lasts until you cross the line.. And it was indeed finally fun to watch F1 again

    elysium

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Quote:
    elysium said:
    And it was indeed finally fun to watch F1 again





    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Ah, Jim, Jim, Jim...
    If only you mastered the art of intreague a little better it would be so much more fun. You're really not enflaming the debate enough here.

    "...former Swedish counties of Denmark and Norway"..."I enjoy reading the Norwegian and Danish contingent here whine about Kimi not winning"... etc

    It's SOOOO funny that you play on that old joke.
    "Denmark...isn't it the capital of Stockholm?" WHaa-ha-ha-ha.
    You got your history a little backwards there buddy, but for an American it aint bad at all! Keep it up, Bubba!

    Sorry you don't have an American in F1 to be excited about...and probably never will until some motorsport brass over there figures out how to construct a track that isn't oval---and gets an audience with cerebral ability to comprehend intricate structures with more than 1 corner.

    For your info I have been a follower of Monty for a long time, so I'm afraid your Nick-like trolling about Scandinavians being fans of scandinavians just for the hell of it doesn't stick too well.

    I don't know the first thing about Alonso as a person.
    I just read this outtake from the press conference.
    He doesn't strike me as one of the sharpest knives in the kitchen drawer, but I guess he is hired to drive a car, not speak eloquently.

    "The car was so nice to drive, so quick, and we were pushing McLaren and Kimi so hard until the point that they had a failure in the tyres."

    Alonso will be spending the next two weeks testing the car and getting a mental reality check.

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Alrighty, enough F1-talk for me for one week.
    Take care out there.

    Pip Doc Paddy Dip




    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    I don't know the first thing about Alonso as a person.
    I just read this outtake from the press conference.
    He doesn't strike me as one of the sharpest knives in the kitchen drawer, but I guess he is hired to drive a car, not speak eloquently.

    "The car was so nice to drive, so quick, and we were pushing McLaren and Kimi so hard until the point that they had a failure in the tyres."

    Alonso will be spending the next two weeks testing the car and getting a mental reality check.



    Dude, try to keep a bare minimum of veracity in your arguments to make them the least bit credible.

    Let me pull your out of you ignorance about Alonso which you so rightfully claim: Alonso is the youngest driver to ever make a fastest lap in all F1 history, youngest to score a podium finish, youngest to make a pole, youngest ever to win a GP race... and now he is the undisputed leader of the F1 champisonship with 4 out of 7 well earnt victories that were not just handed to him on a silver platter and on the road to become the youngest ever driver in history to earn the Formula One championship title in motorsport history!!!... and without even steeping into a Ferrari, Williams or McLaren F1 car!

    ... "we won't be talking about him in 10 years" "not the sharpest knife" "He's simply not that amazing a driver IMO"... yeah OK, I'm sure you are smarter and could teach him a lesson or two

    And I woulnd't criticise americans and racing, they have more motorsport history and heritage than Dennmark and Spain put together by a long shot

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Carlos,

    In spite it can sound rather boring, once again I have to absolutely agree with every single of your accurate coments.....

    Just the reality....F1 is as comlex as chess....(and after 30 years of trying and sudying hard, I still feel as a junior with the 8x8 science.......the same as how "drawing" the perfet way in a track.....and more if Nürburgring is implied (For me, -"The circuit of all circuits"-)

    In any case, the Wolf now is our dear Fernanando.....of course, Kimi is also an incredible driver....(and I feel has lots to "say " this year and in the future, and he's not so "iced": a fantastic pilot following the admirable "HOT Scandinavian" piloting tradition) ...

    THE Kaisser -in spite I could disagree with him in some attitudes- IS and allways will be.....

    ....thanks to all such fantastic pilots, I enjoy and learn so much....

    In any case, an incredible GP....and, sorry,l but in this occasion, the people at Renault choosed the wright tactics......a new version of the inverted "sicilian defense" jajajajja

    Hope to see Mr. De la Rosa fighting in this "battles" he's a very nice person (once I had the so special chance to share a dinner with him, and he's really a humble person with lots of personal classs and unmachable politeness, please beleive me, a real Gentleman). Moreover, a shurely very very skilled pilot (By the way, with no "tennis-related" problems)......

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    YES.....

    Alonso is a winner.....the same as Mr. Rossi....the same as "Shumi".....

    A "special" type of person that can't assume to be the 2nd.....

    We have many examples in history (and, of course, with the evident diferences between them).......Motzart, Wagner, Dante Alghieri, Leonardo, Bruneleshi, Horatius Nelson, Nietszche, Mahatma Gandi...

    the same "sharp", the sharp of a winner......!of course history will remember that brave "young" and balanced pilot named Fernando who crashed ALL records so so young !.........

    Still, he has lots and lots so say!.....all of us, for shure , will see it....

    Somebody in the forum refered to Karting..........please, keep in mind that Mr. Alonso is a real "Kart Master", and piloting such "toy" with a minimunm of skill is not really easy....when he was just a bit "more" than a kid, he worked really hard in a town in Catalonia -Roses- far from his hometown and his family......learning, learning.....more and more.....every single day.....a barely teenager working very hard: Here are the results,

    I admire such dedicated Persons.....with capital letters.....winning needs lots of years, of effords, strugle, pain, deep concentration, resolution and time.....day after day....not giving the chance of a second of time lost: that's the only highway of brilliant humans........and I feel that many (not all) of F1 pilots followed this attitude

    Fernando did.

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    I don't know the first thing about Alonso as a person.
    I just read this outtake from the press conference.
    He doesn't strike me as one of the sharpest knives in the kitchen drawer, but I guess he is hired to drive a car, not speak eloquently.

    "The car was so nice to drive, so quick, and we were pushing McLaren and Kimi so hard until the point that they had a failure in the tyres."

    Alonso will be spending the next two weeks testing the car and getting a mental reality check.



    Dude, try to keep a bare minimum of veracity in your arguments to make them the least bit credible.

    Let me pull your out of you ignorance about Alonso which you so rightfully claim: Alonso is the youngest driver to ever make a fastest lap in all F1 history, youngest to score a podium finish, youngest to make a pole, youngest ever to win a GP race... and now he is the undisputed leader of the F1 champisonship with 4 out of 7 well earnt victories that were not just handed to him on a silver platter and on the road to become the youngest ever driver in history to earn the Formula One championship title in motorsport history!!!... and without even steeping into a Ferrari, Williams or McLaren F1 car!

    ... "we won't be talking about him in 10 years" "not the sharpest knife" "He's simply not that amazing a driver IMO"... yeah OK, I'm sure you are smarter and could teach him a lesson or two

    And I woulnd't criticise americans and racing, they have more motorsport history and heritage than Dennmark and Spain put together by a long shot



    LOL! Funny how eagerly you defend AlFonzie.
    It wouldn't happen to be because he is...SPANISH...would it???

    "..could teach him a lesson or two..." Jeees, get a grip.
    I'm not a fan of him, maybe because I'm not spanish, maybe because I simply like other drivers more. You like him, I'm not crazy about him.
    Deal with it.


    If you truely think Alonso's remark i quoted was very enlightened (and I'm not saying any of the F1 drivers are Einsteins), I think it's time YOU started looking beyond your undiscriminating fascination with him and looked at the facts of the race.
    Kimi started fubaring his own race long before Alonso was even remotely a threat. That's why I believe Alonso's remark is funny and giving himself WAY more credit than he's even remotely entitled to.
    "I scared him off the track.." LOL!

    "...americans have more motorsport heritage" etc etc...
    Right.
    First of all it's funny how I DON'T see you getting all defensive when Jimmy starts dissing Denmark, Norway, Sweden and any other country that isn't the US. Hmmm..... I wonder why.

    Secondly, I'm sure the US have a lot of motorsports heritage and oval track champs, nascar champs, top fuel maestros etc, but I'm sorry to tell you that most of what many people consider the REAL motorsport was born and bread in Europe.
    Start counting important motorsport companies in Europe and you will soon need both feet..count the US counterparts and you will get by with one or two fingers.

    US and Europe are two different worlds when it comes to racing.
    Both have strenghts and weaknesses. But in my book the US version of racing is more show than actual racing.
    Let some rich American buy the F1 circus, and soon you will have lime green cars with custom flame paint and NOS chargers, Jenna Jameson singing the national anthem accompanied by an icehockey organ and donut-competitions instead of qualifications.

    And I'm sorry, I don't recall very many Americans in what arguably is the toughest, fastest and most advanced motorsport in the World. F1.
    However, I have seen several Danes, Swedes and Finns, and taking into consideration that those three countries only represent appr. 16 mio people I think we do pretty well compared to the US and even Spain.
    Wanna look at sportscars? Whoops. Current 5 time Le Mans champ and arguably the best sportcar driver in the World is Danish too.

    I think youre very good at coming across as Mr Knowledge whenever you have something to say - and very many times you are making sensible, valid points. But a lot of what you're claiming to be facts really are not...not by a long shot.
    You're every bit as colored and biased as you claim I am - you just see things differently.

    So whip out a Paella and I'll bring the beer next F1 race.
    We will probably end up killing eachother, but it'll be fun!

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Moi, enflame about Norway and Denmark? Myself, being half Swedish and half Spanish would never do such a thing!

    If anything, my national combinations allow me to be totally objective.

    We haven't had a F1 race in America since Bernie raised the
    price to beyond what Google is worth on the paper.

    I think Alonso has pretty good English, same for Kimi, but I don't think F1 drivers are encouraged to speak candidly.

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Another american here, chiming in. I agree that some motorsports in the USA really suck, especially Nascar. By my own estimates I think I or any reasonably skilled driver could be on the Nascar circuit with a year of training.

    The Indy 500 is cool because of the high speeds and endurance of the race. It isnt exactly "easy" although probably not as tough as F1.

    Also the Champ Cars are cool ,that is some real motorsport for you. Unfortunately most people here love NASCAR.

    As for F1, Schumacher's weakness has finally been exposed. Now that other drivers have equal or superior equipment he is no longer able to dominate, let alone compete for the win. It's almost as if F1 needed a star after Senna passed away so they hyped up Schumacher.

    Has anyone else noticed that Schu has faced little competition from other teams and drivers in his years of dominance? The only teams I can remember challenging him and Ferrari are Williams and Mclaren. Yes BAR was good last year but was never a serious threat.

    And when another driver has truly gone head to head with Schu, someone like Hakkinen, Schu has lost many times.

    Oh and as for good American drivers, dont forget Hurley Haywood, multiple LeMans and Daytona 24 hour winner with Porsche.

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    "And I'm sorry, I don't recall very many Americans in what arguably is the toughest, fastest and most advanced motorsport in the World. F1."

    LOL. You need some e d u c a t i o n. Ever heard of mario andretti sr or jr? mmmmmmmm phil hill? mmmmmmmmm dan gurney?
    mmmmm mark donahue? eddie cheever? and on....American Motorsports in Europe? Como se Ford?? I guess that Corvettes dominance at le mans recently is a mirage!

    This is too funny. I havent even owned an American car and have only owned and raced BMW's and Porsches, and I'm no fan of drag racing or nascar, but I gotta tell you Dr. Phil, they do have some awesome sports car racing here
    and Indy races are fun to watch. I used to like F1, but
    since it has been so productized, sanitized and gelded it
    is not as much fun as it used to be to watch it.

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Dr.Phil,
    I like Alonso, partly because he is spanish and partly because he is a brilliant driver and a gentlemen in the track. But that doens't mean that in turn Kimi is a mediocre driver with no brain to me just because he beat Alonso in Monaco were Alonso could no race due to technical reasons and Kimi celebrated his win. In fact Kimi, like I said before, is my second favorite driver. Just trying to be fair, thats the difference.
    Alonso won, Kimi lost, deal with it

    As to americans and Europe, I did not compare them, I said americans and Dennmark & Spain. Don't bring Europe in becuase the european countries with the richest automobile history like Italy (who's automobile history don't seem to like) has nothing to do with Dennmark.
    And lastly, you are proud of F1 vs the "americans" but I haven't heard of many danish F1 drivers but there has been american F1 drivers, and I don't see a Danish F1 GP, yet there is an american GP so...

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:

    His teamate De LA Rosa sais that Kimi is not a cold "iceman" at all, he is very social and "hot blooded" in person, he sais the problem is that he is very shy and he gives that impresion with strangers or in front of the camera



    I personally think that his main "problem" is that he is Finnish, have you ever heard a Finnish driver say more than three words at a time? (Mika Hakkinen anyone?)

    Seriously, he is very young and if's he shy as well...

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    I enjoy reading the Norwegian and Danish contingent here
    whine about Kimi not winning,



    If you are talking about my posts, I would like to state for the record that I was NOT whining about Kimi not winning, I will leave that to the Danish Doctor.
    Mocking is more like it - I "hate" McLaren and especially their great leader SauRon Dennis.

    Kimi deserved to win, but I think the decision to keep him out there was stupid and irresponsible (what if the suspensionfailure had happened in a high-G corner like Audi-S), and they get no sympathy for "losing" the race from me.

    But a situation like this was bound to occur with the current F1 rules concerning tires. And I think that both the two race engine rule and one weekend tire rule is the wrong way to go. When I watch F1 I want to watch the fastest cars in the world going around a circuit as fast as they possibly can, not "cruising" around to conserve tires and engine. I know they have to keep the costs down but find another way please. The biggest saving IMO would be to introduce a standard spec tire and brakes, and restrict testing. And to get F1 more exiting? Reintroduce slicks to get more mechanical grip, and cut down on aerodynamical grip to get the air behind the cars less "dirty".

    I would also like to state that I think Alonso is the best driver in F1 today, Kimi may be the fastest, but Alonso is the best (along with the the aging MS of course).

    I feel better now.....

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:

    And lastly, you are proud of F1 vs the "americans" but I haven't heard of many danish F1 drivers but there has been american F1 drivers, and I don't see a Danish F1 GP, yet there is an american GP so...



    That's a strange comparison.
    Denmark with a population of 5 mio and the US with a population of 296 mio.
    Do the math.

    You don't know any danish F1-pilots?
    Let me enlighten you:
    Denmark has had a handful of F1-pilots (Magnussen, Kristensen, Kiesa have all driven within the last 5 years) and if you compare that to our relative size in population, I think it's safe to say that we - and the rest of Scandinavia - is doing pretty darn well compared to the sized of the US.

    If you go by size, the US should have had 60 times as many F1 pilots as Denmark. Hmmmm.....

    How about that paella instead?

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    There is no US team in F1, but there will soon be US F1
    drivers again. //www.maineindoorkarting.com/red-bull-driver-search.html

    The 2005 US Gran Prix is June 19, in Indianapolis. The city awaits you Dr, Phil

    As for sports car racing, we already have that covered.
    Even Porsches own factory team motorsports engines are prepared by Andial in Los Angeles and I guess the list of US world championship drivers hasnt made it to Denmark yet.






    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Quote:
    temm said:And to get F1 more exiting? Reintroduce slicks to get more mechanical grip, and cut down on aerodynamical grip to get the air behind the cars less "dirty"



    Absolutely, reducing aerodinamic aids would allow much more overtaking and fighting in F1, with the current setups the drivers can only stay at close distance behind another car to overtake for short periods before the engine overheats and with the "dirty" air that makes it really hard to overtake given the aerodinamic advantage the car in front has.
    One tire per race is dangerous as we have seem this weekend with Kimi, it makes teams/drivers take unecesary risks with the tires. Tires should not be a limiting factor in F1, its a safety factor. They should reduce testing days, limit driver aids, etc.

    Re: F1: European Grand Prix

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    The 2005 US Gran Prix is June 19, in Indianapolis. The city awaits you Dr, Phil




    Can't wait. I've been following the F1 races just recently and would like to see more. I also happened to see the Indy 500 race this past Sunday. Also, very entertaining.

     
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