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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    Horst von Saurma is usually a tiny bit faster than Christian Gebhardt. Of course the Turbo S has different tires, this is why I compared it with the SAME tires to the GT3 and trust me, the Michelin Cup 2 is slightly faster than the Dunlop, which is a UHP tire. The car didn't have any problems during the Supertest, only when AMS tried to execute the dyno testing. Porsche later on confirmed that the car was technically sound, the software update had only been executed to reset the software. This is also one of the reasons cars usually perform worse in AMS/Sport Auto reviews because both car magazine not only dyno the cars but also check chassis setups/settings, just in case manufacturers try to cheat. Also AMS/Sport Auto uses calibrated and certified equipment, a full fuel tank and a passenger, while some other car magazine couldn't care less about all of that. They just hook the cars up with some equipment, test it and they're done. Smiley
    Thats agan, pure rubbish... 1. Chrisian Gebardt is the quicker of the 2, you can look up his 24h and VLN lap times / results ... And that is also the reason why there are plenty of laps (with lap time) from CB online on youtube but only one lap (that of the GT3) from HvS ... I even spoke once to Walther Röhrl and he implied that HvS often doesn't drive the lap times he is writing (as for M3 CSL, Carrera GT)... and maybe the new GT3 was the first car where he was able to drive a "good time" and thats why he finally was able to post it on youtube... (Even though the car would potentially even be quicker)... and he even implies that he drove it to 95%, as the last 5% were difficult to extract from the RWS, a thing CB had no problems with (as said on the Sportauto website)...  And for the tires... You should learn the meanings of tires, not me xD ...1. UHP = Ultra High Performance ... So another word as street tire... And this category is very broad, ranging from semi-slick like the MSCP2, Dunlop SM Race to the normal Pirelli PZero and even Pirelli P7 ... THAT IS WHY people normally split them into : 1. Semi-slick/DOT R 2. Extreme Performance 3. Max Performance and 4. "normal" UHP ... Another point is the tread wear rating which shows how quickly a tyre uses up his rubber and kind of gives one an idea of how much grip it has (more or less, coz aromatic etc nowadays can make it  a bit longer) ... The Tread wear rating for tyres are for example ... Pirellii PZero Trofeo = 60  ---- Dunlop Sport Maxx Race = 60 -----Michelin PSC1 = 100 ---- Michelin PSC2 = 180 ---- Pirelli PZero = 180 ... So no wonder the Dunlop is the faster tyre!?  ... SO STOP TALKING RUBBISH !!! Smiley

    and dont forget, Sportauto and AMS always time with a passenger onboard, so thats a bigger penalty for the lighter GT3...

    Same with the Turbo S, I don't get your point. If they would test the cars with one passenger only, the Turbo S would have the same advantage.

    Well, if u put 200 kg in a 1000kg car you add 20% of weight so, its power to weight ratio drops by 20% ...  if you put the same 200kg in a 2000kg car you are just adding 10% of weight, so its power to weight ratio only drops by 10% ... The Turbo is heavier and more powerful to start with,  so a passenger is a bigger penalty for the GT3 --- Does that sound logical?!

    And Sportauto even posted a statement, that they will retest the GT3 and see if it will really be slower than the tts around hockenheim... So we can,assume that it underperformed quite badly ... 

    It didn't underperform. Is it really that difficult to compare the results of the 991 GT3 with the former 997 GT3, GT3 RS and GT3 RS 4.0? Apparently so. The GT3 performs very well but some people apparently expect miracles before and after Christmas. Smiley

    That is what they said... "vorübergehendes Ergebnis" was the word they used... No XMas etc, just pure facts...

    2. and so far in every true comparison test the turbo s was slower  around the track (autozeitung + balocca)...  so we shouldnt expect  it to be quicker than a gt3 around the track... If porsche states 1 sec difference on the Nordschleife, that will be true and hence the turbo s will be slower on more technical courses...

    In these tests, the Turbo S was using standard tires (PZero). Oh boy...is it so difficult to understand the difference between UHP (Dunlops) and street tires (PZero)? 

    See above, please learn tires mate ... if u mean semi-slick vs Max Performance summer... yep, there was a small advantage but as both seem to have the same tread wear rating, the tyres seems similarily sticky ... probably the MPSC2 has a newer compound and more negativ profile so has a small advantage... but the N-Spec PZero also sticks like a semi-slick, a fact Sportauto already pointed out in the 991 Carrera S Test !!!

    And I think the GT3 will be slower in a straight line, but not as much as you think... could as well be that in your "tests" u gave yourself without recognising always a headstart or that the others are just worse in such "tests" ...  And that could easily lead to small differences becoming a big one... But i gotta say... the gt3 will never will be quicker than the tts in a straight line...

    You cannot imagine how big the difference was. Just wait for the first real life encounters and we talk again. Not even sure why I am discussing straight line performance of the GT3 vs. the Turbo S though. Ridiculous.

    We will see ... but as you already had so many false arguments, wouldnt surprise me if that is a bit exaggerated as well 

    Smiley

    And Chris harris never said he liked the turbo S more than the GT3, thats just rubbish!!!

    Listen to his GT3 review and then the Turbo S review. This is not rubbish. He wasn't a fan of the GT3 because of the PDK but for the first time he liked a 911 Turbo because it "has a soul".

    He said... and I quote his text on piston heads: "The biggest issue for me, though, is that the driver's contribution to the Turbo S's alarming pace is really quite small. You do need to be alert to hold onto the thing and the sheer speed of it is fantastic fun, but you don't step out after a fast run satisfied that you made it so. That's the GT3's job, though." ... and he just said his favourite car for track/daily/fun is the GT3... 

    So if u use facts, please state them correctly...

    Stupid question: When have you driven a GT3 or Turbo S lately? Exactly my point. Cheers. Smiley

    Drove them both and I ordered my GT3 ... Cheers  Smiley

    I said it before: The GT3 is a wonderful car but Porsche has to keep a certain performance hierarchy. If you want something faster (track and straight line), go for the GT3 RS. If you want something even faster, go for the GT2 RS (or maybe even GT2 if Porsche is willing to put it on the market). Just stop arguing about something based on what you read in a stupid car magazine. Otherwise you may be heavily disappointed if you ever get the car.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Mullh:
    RC:
    Horst von Saurma is usually a tiny bit faster than Christian Gebhardt. Of course the Turbo S has different tires, this is why I compared it with the SAME tires to the GT3 and trust me, the Michelin Cup 2 is slightly faster than the Dunlop, which is a UHP tire. The car didn't have any problems during the Supertest, only when AMS tried to execute the dyno testing. Porsche later on confirmed that the car was technically sound, the software update had only been executed to reset the software. This is also one of the reasons cars usually perform worse in AMS/Sport Auto reviews because both car magazine not only dyno the cars but also check chassis setups/settings, just in case manufacturers try to cheat. Also AMS/Sport Auto uses calibrated and certified equipment, a full fuel tank and a passenger, while some other car magazine couldn't care less about all of that. They just hook the cars up with some equipment, test it and they're done. Smiley
    Thats agan, pure rubbish... 1. Chrisian Gebardt is the quicker of the 2, you can look up his 24h and VLN lap times / results ... And that is also the reason why there are plenty of laps (with lap time) from CB online on youtube but only one lap (that of the GT3) from HvS ... I even spoke once to Walther Röhrl and he implied that HvS often doesn't drive the lap times he is writing (as for M3 CSL, Carrera GT)... and maybe the new GT3 was the first car where he was able to drive a "good time" and thats why he finally was able to post it on youtube... (Even though the car would potentially even be quicker)... and he even implies that he drove it to 95%, as the last 5% were difficult to extract from the RWS, a thing CB had no problems with (as said on the Sportauto website)...  And for the tires... You should learn the meanings of tires, not me xD ...1. UHP = Ultra High Performance ... So another word as street tire... And this category is very broad, ranging from semi-slick like the MSCP2, Dunlop SM Race to the normal Pirelli PZero and even Pirelli P7 ... THAT IS WHY people normally split them into : 1. Semi-slick/DOT R 2. Extreme Performance 3. Max Performance and 4. "normal" UHP ... Another point is the tread wear rating which shows how quickly a tyre uses up his rubber and kind of gives one an idea of how much grip it has (more or less, coz aromatic etc nowadays can make it  a bit longer) ... The Tread wear rating for tyres are for example ... Pirellii PZero Trofeo = 60  ---- Dunlop Sport Maxx Race = 60 -----Michelin PSC1 = 100 ---- Michelin PSC2 = 180 ---- Pirelli PZero = 180 ... So no wonder the Dunlop is the faster tyre!?  ... SO STOP TALKING RUBBISH !!! Smiley

    and dont forget, Sportauto and AMS always time with a passenger onboard, so thats a bigger penalty for the lighter GT3...

    Same with the Turbo S, I don't get your point. If they would test the cars with one passenger only, the Turbo S would have the same advantage.

    Well, if u put 200 kg in a 1000kg car you add 20% of weight so, its power to weight ratio drops by 20% ...  if you put the same 200kg in a 2000kg car you are just adding 10% of weight, so its power to weight ratio only drops by 10% ... The Turbo is heavier and more powerful to start with,  so a passenger is a bigger penalty for the GT3 --- Does that sound logical?!

    And Sportauto even posted a statement, that they will retest the GT3 and see if it will really be slower than the tts around hockenheim... So we can,assume that it underperformed quite badly ... 

    It didn't underperform. Is it really that difficult to compare the results of the 991 GT3 with the former 997 GT3, GT3 RS and GT3 RS 4.0? Apparently so. The GT3 performs very well but some people apparently expect miracles before and after Christmas. Smiley

    That is what they said... "vorübergehendes Ergebnis" was the word they used... No XMas etc, just pure facts...

    2. and so far in every true comparison test the turbo s was slower  around the track (autozeitung + balocca)...  so we shouldnt expect  it to be quicker than a gt3 around the track... If porsche states 1 sec difference on the Nordschleife, that will be true and hence the turbo s will be slower on more technical courses...

    In these tests, the Turbo S was using standard tires (PZero). Oh boy...is it so difficult to understand the difference between UHP (Dunlops) and street tires (PZero)? 

    See above, please learn tires mate ... if u mean semi-slick vs Max Performance summer... yep, there was a small advantage but as both seem to have the same tread wear rating, the tyres seems similarily sticky ... probably the MPSC2 has a newer compound and more negativ profile so has a small advantage... but the N-Spec PZero also sticks like a semi-slick, a fact Sportauto already pointed out in the 991 Carrera S Test !!!

    And I think the GT3 will be slower in a straight line, but not as much as you think... could as well be that in your "tests" u gave yourself without recognising always a headstart or that the others are just worse in such "tests" ...  And that could easily lead to small differences becoming a big one... But i gotta say... the gt3 will never will be quicker than the tts in a straight line...

    You cannot imagine how big the difference was. Just wait for the first real life encounters and we talk again. Not even sure why I am discussing straight line performance of the GT3 vs. the Turbo S though. Ridiculous.

    We will see ... but as you already had so many false arguments, wouldnt surprise me if that is a bit exaggerated as well 

    Smiley

    And Chris harris never said he liked the turbo S more than the GT3, thats just rubbish!!!

    Listen to his GT3 review and then the Turbo S review. This is not rubbish. He wasn't a fan of the GT3 because of the PDK but for the first time he liked a 911 Turbo because it "has a soul".

    He said... and I quote his text on piston heads: "The biggest issue for me, though, is that the driver's contribution to the Turbo S's alarming pace is really quite small. You do need to be alert to hold onto the thing and the sheer speed of it is fantastic fun, but you don't step out after a fast run satisfied that you made it so. That's the GT3's job, though." ... and he just said his favourite car for track/daily/fun is the GT3... 

    So if u use facts, please state them correctly...

    Stupid question: When have you driven a GT3 or Turbo S lately? Exactly my point. Cheers. Smiley

    Drove them both and I ordered my GT3 ... Cheers  Smiley

    I said it before: The GT3 is a wonderful car but Porsche has to keep a certain performance hierarchy. If you want something faster (track and straight line), go for the GT3 RS. If you want something even faster, go for the GT2 RS (or maybe even GT2 if Porsche is willing to put it on the market). Just stop arguing about something based on what you read in a stupid car magazine. Otherwise you may be heavily disappointed if you ever get the car.

     

    Smiley

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I can't believe this discussion is still going on, and people are getting heated about it. Different people like different things, why is that even a point of debate?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Enmanuel:

    I can't believe this discussion is still going on, and people are getting heated about it. Different people like different things, why is that even a point of debate?

    No one is debating "what people like".

    Many of us are pointing out that RC is spouting a load of ******* (or at least claiming that his car can break the laws of physics!)

    Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    It is difficult to reply to your post because something got messed up when you quoted (yes, our software isn't the most intuitive to use, I agree).

    So I try it without quoting you (which isn't easy though):

    1. HvS is not an internet type of guy, CG loves to take videos, incl. speedo videos. He represents the more modern Sport Auto, HvS the old Sport Auto. One reason (among others) HvS has left Sport Auto but he doesn't still do the Supertest for no reason. What do you expect Walter Röhrl to say when a customer (you are a customer) asks about different times from different drivers? Of course he has to stick to the factory times, he works for Porsche and he is paid by Porsche (last time I checked). As I know WR pretty well (and a lot better than you I assume), I don't think he said a single bad word about HvS. Not one. Right?

    2. UHP tires are a broader category of tires, which also includes semi-slicks. You pointed that out. There is no semi-slick tire per se, there are street tires and UHP tires. Some are better though, like the new Trofeo for example but this tire not only has it's price, it also sucks in the wet and/or on cold surfaces (temp below 15° or so). Now comparing the Dunlop Sport Maxx Race to the Cup 2 is really interesting because both tires have friends and foes. The tread wear rating you mention is interesting too but doesn't really say much about the qualities of the UHP tire. Compound mixture plays a huge role too and of course the tread pattern. The tire with the lowest tread wear rating is not always the best UHP tire, there are so many other factors to count in. If things were that simple... Speaking of tread wear: How do you know the Dunlops weren't new and the Michelin weren't already highly worn off? Smiley The Dunlop SportMaxx Race is a great tire but the real life difference to the new Cup 2 for the GT3 is not that big. Both tires carry N ratings and have been specifically developed and improved for the specific 911 models they are approved for.

    3. Regarding the weight penalty: Take the weight of the GT3 and then the weight of the Turbo S. The real life weight difference is let's say 180 kg more or less. How much difference is that in %? Now take this number and tell me how much of penalty an additional passenger is when you compare both cars. This is ridiculous. You may have had a point when comparing a 1000 kg to a 2000 kg car but 180 kg difference? Smiley Do some math.

    4. Sport Auto promised to re-test the GT3 because they had a shitstorm raining down on them...and Porsche. The problem wasn't actually the result of the GT3 Supertest per se but the fact that in the same magazine issue, the 991 Turbo S was faster by almost one second in Hockenheim (Kleiner Kurs). This cannot happen, not to the GT3, the track Porsche. Smiley You get your information from car magazines and the internet, I get my information...well...from different sources. Smiley Smiley It is funny: When we report things months ahead of the official announcement and even rumors, everything is nice and peachy. When we say something people don't like...well...typical internet crowd. Smiley

    5. The PZero on my 991 Turbo S is a great tire and very sticky but I can assure you that it isn't even close to a semi-slick. You would never be able to do on wet surfaces what I do with the Turbo S and the OEM PZero. The PZero used on the 991 Turbo S is not the same PZero used in the past on the Carrera S. This is why that Carrera S failed so miserably in the wet testing. You are comparing apples with oranges. Look at the AMS video with the comparison to the R8 and GT-R (on UHP tires) in the wet. The PZero on the Turbo S isn't even considered an UHP tire. Ask Weissach. Smiley

    6. You really like to hear from Chris Harris' videos what you like, don't you? Smiley My English my not be the best but I listened to his comments over and over again and I still come to the same conclusion.

    I get it: Coming from a Boxster S (986), you ordered a GT3. So the GT3 has to be perfect and the fastest car around. Got it. Smiley

    You're not far away from me, so let spring come and we can meet when you have your car. I have OEM PZero on my car, no Dunlops. Car is stock. Shouldn't be any real challenge for a GT3. Smiley We can even do straight line only, I have no problem with that. I even wait until your car is run-in. Real life experience. Deal? Smiley

    P.S: Please be aware that Rennteam is my home. Next time, when you are new, try to be more civilized in the choice of your words. I accept a lot of stuff from long time users because I know them and they contribute a lot but new guys need to earn their right to use this kind of "tone". Just for the book. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    sidicks:
    Enmanuel:

    I can't believe this discussion is still going on, and people are getting heated about it. Different people like different things, why is that even a point of debate?

    No one is debating "what people like".

    Many of us are pointing out that RC is spouting a load of ******* (or at least claiming that his car can break the laws of physics!)

    Smiley

    I wouldn't have phrased it like that. RC is defending the car he believes is best using numbers from a specific set of circumstances in which it is faster than a GT3, others do the same because they believe the GT3 is better. at the end of the day each car has a different character to it (like easy said) and the reason for choosing one over the other has nothing to do with specs and lap times, or who is faster to 250. But insisting your opinions on others in such a harsh manner will only make you look stupid. So why don't you guys just agree to disagree? Both the TTS and GT3 can be faster than the other under specific circumstances, no point on using those to measure up. so just let it go and buy the car you like for yourself and let others enjoy what they like instead. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Actually everything started with that italian car magazine and the results I questioned.  When emotions are involved (and a lot of money), people tend to stick to their opinions, I get that. I could just shut up, knowing my stuff but this is what this forum is for, discussing all angles. This is not a forum where people can actually brag about their fantastic choice all the time, this is a forum to discuss everything. Not the perfect place for those who think their car is the best in the world I'm afraid but an interesting place for those who want to have a different perspective.

    Funny: When I reported that the GT3 has production delays because of technical issues, some of you guys immediately "jumped" me to tell me I'm wrong ("talked to the dealer, everything is fine" or "dealer isn't aware of any delay" and so on). As soon as somebody here doesn't like to read certain things, he goes berserk on me (or others). I am willing to prove my points any time (not that I need it because I already did) but some of you guys really seem to seriously expect me to unveil my sources and details, which I can't and you know that. Either you trust me or not but if people want a site where everybody shouts "hooray", this ain't going to happen here. The GT3 is what it is and some people will be hugely disappointed with it once the GT3 RS shows up. So please try to have an open mind and understand what the GT3 is and what it isn't. I never said it is a bad car, on the contrary. When some of you guys actually started to bash it (after the technical issues were public), I firmly defended it. I am trying to give an honest perspective on certain Porsche products, so people know how to choose what is right for them.

    If someone tells me he drove several cars and came up with the GT3 as the best choice for him, I agree. Great approach, nothing more to say. However, reading some of the claims here, I have to wonder if some of the claims are based on personal experience or on internet bragging. I actually start to think it is the latter, especially judging by the lies I encountered on different forums. Sorry to say that.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    What about the GT-R? Isn't this fastest car? 

    Sorry, could not keep my mouth shut. Have to go. See ya! 


    --

    2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

    Previous
    2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
    2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
    2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
    2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    ... The GT3 is what it is and some people will be hugely disappointed with it once the GT3 RS shows up...

    Hey RC, if someone is on the list for the new RS would you recommend staying on the list and waiting for it? I.e. Will it be as involving as the last 3.8 RS?

    Thanks


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    this discussion has become entirely comical. i read arguments about tenth of seconds which P car X takes off P car Y on a Z km run....who of you guys are race care drivers? or, even worse,  street-race car drivers? RC defending his turbo baby (sorry turbo S baby) to the very end (using data that cannot be verified) and others attacking with data that have the same level of uncertainty. in reality the cars we buy are about FEELING and not about that tenth of a second which you gain or loose. i personally could not care less if the turbo S beats the GT3 on whatever race track. in test-drives the former did not stir my soul at all while the latter did, just as my F458. isn't it just this that counts, not those totally useless statistics? 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    andyFE:

    this discussion has become entirely comical. i read arguments about tenth of seconds which P car X takes off P car Y on a Z km run....who of you guys are race care drivers? or, even worse,  street-race car drivers? RC defending his turbo baby (sorry turbo S baby) to the very end (using data that cannot be verified) and others attacking with data that have the same level of uncertainty. in reality the cars we buy are about FEELING and not about that tenth of a second which you gain or loose. i personally could not care less if the turbo S beats the GT3 on whatever race track. in test-drives the former did not stir my soul at all while the latter did, just as my F458. isn't it just this that counts, not those totally useless statistics? 

    Please take your logical argumentation somewhere else. It does not belong in this thread.

    (On a more serious note, you are spot on)


    --

    2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

    Previous
    2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
    2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
    2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
    2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    boytronic:
    RC:

    ... The GT3 is what it is and some people will be hugely disappointed with it once the GT3 RS shows up...

    Hey RC, if someone is on the list for the new RS would you recommend staying on the list and waiting for it? I.e. Will it be as involving as the last 3.8 RS?

    Thanks

    Sounds to me as though it will be a very interesting car and I'd stay on the list, unless you have a compelling reason to surrender your spot.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    bluelines:
    andyFE:

    this discussion has become entirely comical. i read arguments about tenth of seconds which P car X takes off P car Y on a Z km run....who of you guys are race care drivers? or, even worse,  street-race car drivers? RC defending his turbo baby (sorry turbo S baby) to the very end (using data that cannot be verified) and others attacking with data that have the same level of uncertainty. in reality the cars we buy are about FEELING and not about that tenth of a second which you gain or loose. i personally could not care less if the turbo S beats the GT3 on whatever race track. in test-drives the former did not stir my soul at all while the latter did, just as my F458. isn't it just this that counts, not those totally useless statistics? 

    Please take your logical argumentation somewhere else. It does not belong in this thread.

    (On a more serious note, you are spot on)

    ::::))))) it should be fun, shouldn't it ?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Grant:
    boytronic:
    RC:

    ... The GT3 is what it is and some people will be hugely disappointed with it once the GT3 RS shows up...

    Hey RC, if someone is on the list for the new RS would you recommend staying on the list and waiting for it? I.e. Will it be as involving as the last 3.8 RS?

    Thanks

    Sounds to me as though it will be a very interesting car and I'd stay on the list, unless you have a compelling reason to surrender your spot.

    Thanks Grant. I realise Andreas has already answered the question :)

    http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-new-cars/Search-Results/Spyshots/Porsche-GT3-boss-confirms-RS-for-2014/

    What’s the philosophy behind the new 911 GT3 RS?
     
    Preuninger says that the new GT3’s increased usability as a daily driver and its more rounded abilities opens up the possibility for the RS model to be even more extreme: ‘We’ve opened up a wider field of usability with the new GT3, so maybe that gives us more reason to push the RS towards a more extreme side. The differentiations between the two models has always been increasing, and it’s going to be like that in the future.’
     
    How wild will the new GT3 RS be?
     
    ‘The outer shape is frozen,’ revealed Preuninger. ‘It’s pretty spectacular. It’s beautiful.’ Expect the new RS to have an even bigger wing than the last 997-generation GT3 RS, no doubt inspired by the enormous spoiler on the back of the latest 991 Cup race car (pictured right with the new GT3). And to counter the extra rear downforce, there could be front aero tweaks too, and perhaps the GT3 RS 4.0’s aero ‘flics’ on the front bumper.
     
    :)

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:

    It is difficult to reply to your post because something got messed up when you quoted (yes, our software isn't the most intuitive to use, I agree).

    So I try it without quoting you (which isn't easy though):

    1. HvS is not an internet type of guy, CG loves to take videos, incl. speedo videos. He represents the more modern Sport Auto, HvS the old Sport Auto. One reason (among others) HvS has left Sport Auto but he doesn't still do the Supertest for no reason. What do you expect Walter Röhrl to say when a customer (you are a customer) asks about different times from different drivers? Of course he has to stick to the factory times, he works for Porsche and he is paid by Porsche (last time I checked). As I know WR pretty well (and a lot better than you I assume), I don't think he said a single bad word about HvS. Not one. Right?

    2. UHP tires are a broader category of tires, which also includes semi-slicks. You pointed that out. There is no semi-slick tire per se, there are street tires and UHP tires. Some are better though, like the new Trofeo for example but this tire not only has it's price, it also sucks in the wet and/or on cold surfaces (temp below 15° or so). Now comparing the Dunlop Sport Maxx Race to the Cup 2 is really interesting because both tires have friends and foes. The tread wear rating you mention is interesting too but doesn't really say much about the qualities of the UHP tire. Compound mixture plays a huge role too and of course the tread pattern. The tire with the lowest tread wear rating is not always the best UHP tire, there are so many other factors to count in. If things were that simple... Speaking of tread wear: How do you know the Dunlops weren't new and the Michelin weren't already highly worn off? Smiley The Dunlop SportMaxx Race is a great tire but the real life difference to the new Cup 2 for the GT3 is not that big. Both tires carry N ratings and have been specifically developed and improved for the specific 911 models they are approved for.

    3. Regarding the weight penalty: Take the weight of the GT3 and then the weight of the Turbo S. The real life weight difference is let's say 180 kg more or less. How much difference is that in %? Now take this number and tell me how much of penalty an additional passenger is when you compare both cars. This is ridiculous. You may have had a point when comparing a 1000 kg to a 2000 kg car but 180 kg difference? Smiley Do some math.

    4. Sport Auto promised to re-test the GT3 because they had a shitstorm raining down on them...and Porsche. The problem wasn't actually the result of the GT3 Supertest per se but the fact that in the same magazine issue, the 991 Turbo S was faster by almost one second in Hockenheim (Kleiner Kurs). This cannot happen, not to the GT3, the track Porsche. Smiley You get your information from car magazines and the internet, I get my information...well...from different sources. Smiley Smiley It is funny: When we report things months ahead of the official announcement and even rumors, everything is nice and peachy. When we say something people don't like...well...typical internet crowd. Smiley

    5. The PZero on my 991 Turbo S is a great tire and very sticky but I can assure you that it isn't even close to a semi-slick. You would never be able to do on wet surfaces what I do with the Turbo S and the OEM PZero. The PZero used on the 991 Turbo S is not the same PZero used in the past on the Carrera S. This is why that Carrera S failed so miserably in the wet testing. You are comparing apples with oranges. Look at the AMS video with the comparison to the R8 and GT-R (on UHP tires) in the wet. The PZero on the Turbo S isn't even considered an UHP tire. Ask Weissach. Smiley

    6. You really like to hear from Chris Harris' videos what you like, don't you? Smiley My English my not be the best but I listened to his comments over and over again and I still come to the same conclusion.

    I get it: Coming from a Boxster S (986), you ordered a GT3. So the GT3 has to be perfect and the fastest car around. Got it. Smiley

    You're not far away from me, so let spring come and we can meet when you have your car. I have OEM PZero on my car, no Dunlops. Car is stock. Shouldn't be any real challenge for a GT3. Smiley We can even do straight line only, I have no problem with that. I even wait until your car is run-in. Real life experience. Deal? Smiley

    P.S: Please be aware that Rennteam is my home. Next time, when you are new, try to be more civilized in the choice of your words. I accept a lot of stuff from long time users because I know them and they contribute a lot but new guys need to earn their right to use this kind of "tone". Just for the book. Smiley

     

    1. You know him better?! Well, interesthing, a mate of mine is kind of his best friend so I see him more or less on a regular basis... but yeah, you know him better ;) ... And actually this friend is also a Porsche Werksfahrer in Weissach, but nevermind...  Isnt it strange, that he was in the racecar GT3 on the nordschleife about 10 Sec. faster a lap but for example with the carrera GT HvS was only 1 Second behind?!  Strange, isnt it... As i said, CG is the faster and he will take over the supertest... he already did the lap of the exige s... and HvS is only there for  comparable reasons, at least thats what they want to make the readers to believe... I can even remember HvS getting his fantasy laptimes mixed up in the RS5 supertest... he was talking bout  the 7:59 laptime, but the data table showed 8:01 xD ... 

     

    2+5. UHP MEANS STREET tire... is that so hard... here some examples...

    http://www.michelin.ca/tire-selector/category/ultra-high-performance-sport   

    http://www.pirelli.com/tire/ca/en/car/sheet/pzero_rosso.html?url=%3Fsubtype%3Dcar%26application%3DCAR

    http://www.pirelli.com/tire/ca/en/car/sheet/pzero.html?url=%3Fsubtype%3Dcar%26application%3DCAR

    What you mean is that it ain't a Semi -Slick... You did that mistake on a regular basis on this forum, just wanted to point it out coz u are very active here and are spreading and mixing up the terms... And as i said, the PZero N-Spec more or less behaves like a semi-slick, thats why the TTS was able to put down such a good laptime on the Sachsenring... The Dunlop might be better, but not by much, over a single lap anyway... And I drove the PZero Trofeo R  on my Cayman R and they worked fine also with temps below 15 degree C and in the rain... they started to feel bad at +3 C and standing water, but i reckon a normal PZero with about 3mm tread would feel similar.... I am pretty sure that the normal Pzero got similar grip as an Toyo R888 and Yokohama A048 ... At least for about 5 min... The difference is... A semi-slick compound is more durable during trackday sessions so they stick even after 30 Min of driving on the limit whereas the normal UHP tires tend to overheat.. In Weissach they say it aint a semislick (for above reasons), but they do say its a UHP , but thats nearly every summertire xD... 

    3.. Of course it was an example... but its still a difference of about 1-2%, and that means up to 0.1 -0.2 Seconds difference on a 0-200kmh run.. 

    4. they stated it a  day before the release, like they wanted to say: SORRY... 

    6. How about i send him an email and publish it? :) ... Or you may ask him ... dont mind who asks... 

    We can meet up, no prob... My GT3 will come in March and hope to get some ring time soon after that... But as I said... the TTS is also imho faster in a straight line, but just not as much  as u say :)

    And for my fun cars: I had a Cayman R and Scuderia, traded now both for a 458 Speciale (coming in may)  and GT3 (coming in march)... 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    As you can see, I do not brag with Weissach test drivers broken heart or the I know a friend who knows a friend who knows a friend. 

    Let's wait for your GT3 and maybe we can meet in April or May for some trials. The straight line difference is similar to a 997 Turbo S vs. Panamera Turbo S as a comparison in the under 300 kph range. From 200 to 300 kph, the difference between the GT3 and the Turbo S is a around 8 seconds IF the GT3 runs well. So yeah, the difference is not big, right. Got it.

    Talk is cheap, so let's meet in spring. You are closer to my place than you think.

    As to logical or not discussions: What is more logical than real life experience? I know, I know, Rennteam is around for  more than a decade because we talk crap. Got that too.

    It is human nature that people don't want to believe what they do NOT want to believe. Got that too and will stop arguing before I say something I could regret later on. The people who support Rennteam with rumors and inside information do not deserve that.

    As to the GT-R comment: The new Nismo will indeed be a challenge for Porsche but this car is so ugly that I wouldn't touch it even if it had 1000 hp. Why can't Nissan give this car a decent look?!

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC, Mullh: yes, let's meet! :)
    On the Nurburgring? :))

    My GT3 is "ready", I will go and take delivery in 2 weeks (if no snow...).
    And I am also waiting for a 458 Speciale... April if God wants.

    About the GT3RS, I am curious about what Porsche will offer... Compared to the GT3, I wonder if the GT3RS will be "as beautiful" and "daily usable" (I know that the GT3 is better for everyday, that makes sense, but will the GT3RS be able for daily use, like 458 Speciale?).

    mms_img1715594009.jpgmms_img1722700917.jpgmms_img-962505985.jpg


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    andyFE:

    this discussion has become entirely comical. i read arguments about tenth of seconds which P car X takes off P car Y on a Z km run....who of you guys are race care drivers? or, even worse,  street-race car drivers? RC defending his turbo baby (sorry turbo S baby) to the very end (using data that cannot be verified) and others attacking with data that have the same level of uncertainty. in reality the cars we buy are about FEELING and not about that tenth of a second which you gain or loose. i personally could not care less if the turbo S beats the GT3 on whatever race track. in test-drives the former did not stir my soul at all while the latter did, just as my F458. isn't it just this that counts, not those totally useless statistics? 

    This may be shocking, but I totally agree with you! Smiley


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basaltblack metallic
    2012 Audi SQ5 TDI | Lavagrey metallic
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    200 - 300 kmh range? Acceleration... well, was more thinking of 60 - 230 kmh Range... Like speed one achieves on racetracks (ring is an exception at a few places)... Above 250 kmh it will be bigger for sure, as aerodynamics and power count more than weight etc...  ok, then I had a different understanding of acceleration than you, my bad .. sry for have misunderstood u in this case...

    Always up for apetrolhead discussion/meeting, especially at the ring :) 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    i hate ferrari i hate lamborghini i hate ferrari........::::)))))

    happy new year!!!

    image.jpeg


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    This thread screams for a summer meet & greet smiley I'll bring the popcorn indecision


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    BjoernB:

    This thread screams for a summer meet & greet smiley I'll bring the popcorn indecision

    LOL! Yes! Smiley Gonna need lots of popcorn dude 1388501960732popcorn.gif


    --

    2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

    Previous
    2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
    2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
    2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
    2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I think after my non allocation of a GT3 I should just go and buy a GTR Nismo. Then I can meet you lot at the ring in your Porkers and give all of you a good kicking. Race you over 3 laps (no more), I will get the drinks ready while I'm waiting for you P owners to cross line indecision....


    --

    throt

    "I couldn't do it"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    igirl:

    RC, Mullh: yes, let's meet! :)
    On the Nurburgring? :))

    My GT3 is "ready", I will go and take delivery in 2 weeks (if no snow...).
    And I am also waiting for a 458 Speciale... April if God wants.

    About the GT3RS, I am curious about what Porsche will offer... Compared to the GT3, I wonder if the GT3RS will be "as beautiful" and "daily usable" (I know that the GT3 is better for everyday, that makes sense, but will the GT3RS be able for daily use, like 458 Speciale?).

    mms_img1715594009.jpgmms_img1722700917.jpgmms_img-962505985.jpg

    Finally, a GT3 post on this thread that is not boring…. indecision.   Congratulations to igirl on receiving this GT3!  If Paris has snow have it delivered to Nice or someplace warmer….?  Love the look of those aero-wheel covers on the rear by the way… Lol   And you might be the first to provide something actually useful on this thread… a real drivers impressions report!  

    Cheers, 


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    throt:

    I think after my non allocation of a GT3 I should just go and buy a GTR Nismo. Then I can meet you lot at the ring in your Porkers and give all of you a good kicking. Race you over 3 laps (no more), I will get the drinks ready while I'm waiting for you P owners to cross line indecision....

    Excellent! SmileySmiley


    --

    2014 981 Boxster S | Riviera Blue | PDK | Sport Suspension (-20mm) | PCCB | PTV | PSE
    2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

    Previous
    2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
    2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
    2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
    2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Pistonheads have a nice article on the 911 Turbo:

    http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=29116


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Quick note on RC`s statement about Sport Autos certified equipment: they are using a 10+ year old GPS-based equipment from German company 2D Datarecording. That system works with a 12Hz GPS antenna (12 logging in a second). Just for comparison: AutoBild Sportscars tests with a 100Hz (!) GPS from Racelogic. That system has a G-sensor as well and it works with an accuracy of 2 centimeters... AutoZeitung and the Italians (Quattroruote, Auto) are also using Racelogic telemetry systems (even the cheaper loggers are equipped with 20Hz GPS antennas). 

    So technically Sport Auto uses the least accurate system.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    4trac:
    igirl:

    RC, Mullh: yes, let's meet! :)
    On the Nurburgring? :))

    My GT3 is "ready", I will go and take delivery in 2 weeks (if no snow...).
    And I am also waiting for a 458 Speciale... April if God wants.

    About the GT3RS, I am curious about what Porsche will offer... Compared to the GT3, I wonder if the GT3RS will be "as beautiful" and "daily usable" (I know that the GT3 is better for everyday, that makes sense, but will the GT3RS be able for daily use, like 458 Speciale?).

    mms_img1715594009.jpgmms_img1722700917.jpgmms_img-962505985.jpg

    Finally, a GT3 post on this thread that is not boring…. indecision.   Congratulations to igirl on receiving this GT3!  If Paris has snow have it delivered to Nice or someplace warmer….?  Love the look of those aero-wheel covers on the rear by the way… Lol   And you might be the first to provide something actually useful on this thread… a real drivers impressions report!  

    Cheers, 


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

    Why was the front rubber spoiler removed?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    bluelines:
    BjoernB:

    This thread screams for a summer meet & greet smiley I'll bring the popcorn indecision

    LOL! Yes! Smiley Gonna need lots of popcorn dude 1388501960732popcorn.gif

    I rather think some guys will need an extra pair of underwear. Smiley

    Smiley

    P.S.: Nordschleife is too far away for me, I can do Salzburg Ring, Hockenheim or just any mountain pass road in the Alps.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Christian, these are the type of wagers that get people killed. I hope you are not foolish enough to participate. enlightened

    I couldn't care less which car is faster. Both have their merits and excite their owners. That is all that needs to be said.crying

     


     
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