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    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/alfa-romeo-4c-sets-nurburgring-record

    4C 8:04 at NBR with Trofeo tyres. Same as the Cayman S with W. Roehrl and street rubber.

    With all that weight saving, carbon tub, racy Trofeos and the list of compromises I expected something better than matching the complete and full equipment Porsche on normal tyres.

    A consolation: Record for cars under 247bhp (250HP) yes

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I guess the NBR has a lot of sections where power and aero are more critical than power to weight


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    GR:

    I guess the NBR has a lot of sections where power and aero are more critical than power to weight

    That's right.  Even cars like Caterham (which are blisteringly fast on short technical tracks) suffer due to lack of high horsepower.  The 'Ring is FAST!  Average speed can be over 100mph (160kph) for a fast car.  I just set my personal best at the local track with average speed around 75mph (this is as fast as most street-legal GT3's).  And this is our new fast track (previous track here had a much lower average speed).

    I think the 4C at my track would be pretty fast (good handling and turbocharged motor help with technical track and high altitude).  This is why my modified EVO keeps up (or beats in many cases) a GT3 (its motor loses 20% HP/TQ up here).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    GR:

    I guess the NBR has a lot of sections where power and aero are more critical than power to weight

    I think top brakes (see Porsche) make a big difference at NBR where very high speeds are achieved and downhill slopes are encountered.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:
    GR:

    I guess the NBR has a lot of sections where power and aero are more critical than power to weight

    I think top brakes (see Porsche) make a big difference at NBR where very high speeds are achieved and downhill slopes are encountered.

    From all reports, the brakes are a highlight of the 4C (light cars usually excel here).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Grant:
    reginos:
    GR:

    I guess the NBR has a lot of sections where power and aero are more critical than power to weight

    I think top brakes (see Porsche) make a big difference at NBR where very high speeds are achieved and downhill slopes are encountered.

    From all reports, the brakes are a highlight of the 4C (light cars usually excel here).

    Highlight for an Alfa, perhaps.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:
    Grant:
    reginos:
    GR:

    I guess the NBR has a lot of sections where power and aero are more critical than power to weight

    I think top brakes (see Porsche) make a big difference at NBR where very high speeds are achieved and downhill slopes are encountered.

    From all reports, the brakes are a highlight of the 4C (light cars usually excel here).

    Highlight for an Alfa, perhaps.

    Brakes are from Brembo, so they are expected to be good. And they only have to stop <1000kg incl. a driver, so i don't think the brakes are an issue. It's the power that makes the difference, but what does it matter, as long as the car is fun to drive...  A 981 isn't that impressing either on the nordschleife, but i don't think that it matters for any buyer of those cars.

    Besides that, a faster version of it is coming in 2014, with mechanical diff and hopefully a upgraded software of the TCT.


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Suzy, post after post I become sure that the 4C is very close to your heart. Are you thinking about it seriously?

    The Boxster S is listed at 8:10. Close, for what it's worth.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    The NBR car. Why was it taped like below?

    9762891881957482785.jpg


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:

    Suzy, post after post I become sure that the 4C is very close to your heart. Are you thinking about it seriously?

    The Boxster S is listed at 8:10. Close, for what it's worth.

    Yes yes...Smiley I am very seriously thinking about one, but I want the QV that's coming later in 2014. I can get a white launch edition if I want, but I want to wait for a later build and the more powerful version.

    Alfa Romeo is the only brand that I love more than Porsche Smiley  (Maybe because there is some Milanese blood in my vains and the fact that a '72 Montreal's exhaust note was the first car to give me goosebumps all over at the age of 6Smiley)


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:

    The NBR car. Why was it taped like below?

    9762891881957482785.jpg

    That's the lightweight solution to hold the body together Smiley

    I have no clue why thay did that. In the video, the car leaves the track at night without the tape on it. Maybe it's an aerodynamic trick! LOL


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Some of the tape is there to block panel gaps and improve airflow over the body. The rest of it is just a marketing gimmick to gain more attention from track side photographers and generate internet interest. Partially disguised cars always get more exposure on websites as people love to speculate what significance the tape has and what is hidding beneath it etc. Most new cars that set lap times appear to be adorned this way so no-one wants to be the manufacturer who sends out an undisguised car that doesn't garner any attention at all


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    SuzyF:
    reginos:

    The NBR car. Why was it taped like below?

    9762891881957482785.jpg

    That's the lightweight solution to hold the body together Smiley

    That was also my first cynical thought.  Smiley

    I have no clue why thay did that. In the video, the car leaves the track at night without the tape on it. Maybe it's an aerodynamic trick! LOL

    Since the right hand side window appears to be open on that car I wouldn't have thought it was meant to reduce aerodynamic losses during that particular run, so maybe it was an attempt to trace a wind noise thought to be caused by the panel gaps somewhere on the body?  Smiley

    On the other hand, maybe the side window just flew out because it was the one part which hadn't been taped in?  SmileySmiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    ISUK:

    Some of the tape is there to block panel gaps and improve airflow over the body. The rest of it is just a marketing gimmick to gain more attention from track side photographers and generate internet interest. Partially disguised cars always get more exposure on websites as people love to speculate what significance the tape has and what is hidding beneath it etc. Most new cars that set lap times appear to be adorned this way so no-one wants to be the manufacturer who sends out an undisguised car that doesn't garner any attention at all

    That's spot on I think. And not even to block panel gaps, because on most parts where there is tape, there are no panel gaps Smiley  (Even the window is left open and I van't imagine that's good for the airflow)

    They are just trying to get some attention.


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    If it was just for effect and attention,  it was not a good idea. Because, it makes the car look non-original and questions automatically arise about the validity of the lap time.

    If OTOH,  there was a degree of substance to the taping, then the car is definitely non-original.

    What were those Italians thinking


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    SuzyF:
    reginos:

    Suzy, post after post I become sure that the 4C is very close to your heart. Are you thinking about it seriously?

    The Boxster S is listed at 8:10. Close, for what it's worth.

    Yes yes...Smiley I am very seriously thinking about one, but I want the QV that's coming later in 2014. I can get a white launch edition if I want, but I want to wait for a later build and the more powerful version.

    Alfa Romeo is the only brand that I love more than Porsche Smiley  (Maybe because there is some Milanese blood in my vains and the fact that a '72 Montreal's exhaust note was the first car to give me goosebumps all over at the age of 6Smiley)

    I wish myself for Alfa to resurrect because it was the most special mainstream brand for many years.

    Why don't you get the launch edition (good price form your uncle too) and change up to the QV (Quadrifoglio Verde that is?) later. With its limited production and the publicity generated you might not lose much at resale.  Get one now that the iron is hot!


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:
    SuzyF:
    reginos:

    Suzy, post after post I become sure that the 4C is very close to your heart. Are you thinking about it seriously?

    The Boxster S is listed at 8:10. Close, for what it's worth.

    Yes yes...Smiley I am very seriously thinking about one, but I want the QV that's coming later in 2014. I can get a white launch edition if I want, but I want to wait for a later build and the more powerful version.

    Alfa Romeo is the only brand that I love more than Porsche Smiley  (Maybe because there is some Milanese blood in my vains and the fact that a '72 Montreal's exhaust note was the first car to give me goosebumps all over at the age of 6Smiley)

    I wish myself for Alfa to resurrect because it was the most special mainstream brand for many years.

    Why don't you get the launch edition (good price form your uncle too) and change up to the QV later. With its limited production and the publicity generated you might not lose much at resale.  Get one now that the iron is hot!

    It's a lot of paperwork, since the car is a dutch car that has to get imported here in Switzerland. And also the fact hat my uncle did order that car to keep for himself. He has done already so much for me in the past, that I would feel gulty. I have already a great fun car in the Boxster so I can easily wait.


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    SuzyF:
    reginos:

    Suzy, post after post I become sure that the 4C is very close to your heart. Are you thinking about it seriously?

    The Boxster S is listed at 8:10. Close, for what it's worth.

    Yes yes...Smiley I am very seriously thinking about one, but I want the QV that's coming later in 2014. I can get a white launch edition if I want, but I want to wait for a later build and the more powerful version.

    Alfa Romeo is the only brand that I love more than Porsche Smiley  (Maybe because there is some Milanese blood in my vains and the fact that a '72 Montreal's exhaust note was the first car to give me goosebumps all over at the age of 6Smiley)

    Suzy - any rumors of a manual gearbox version (QV or other)?  Also, I hope they improve the steering for the QV (seems it's not as good as it could be for a manual rack, like Lotus or older 911).

    Thanks!


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    reginos:

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/alfa-romeo-4c-sets-nurburgring-record

    4C 8:04 at NBR with Trofeo tyres. Same as the Cayman S with W. Roehrl and street rubber.

    With all that weight saving, carbon tub, racy Trofeos and the list of compromises I expected something better than matching the complete and full equipment Porsche on normal tyres.

    A consolation: Record for cars under 247bhp (250HP) yes

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    SmileySmileySmiley

    Alfa.png

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Grant:

    Suzy - any rumors of a manual gearbox version (QV or other)?  Also, I hope they improve the steering for the QV (seems it's not as good as it could be for a manual rack, like Lotus or older 911).

    Thanks!


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

    There will be no manual for the 4C...ever, Alfa Romeo already confirmed this in a press conference when the car was released. I have no information about the steering, but i also didn't hear or read any complaints about it.

    The only thing that I know for sure is that the dual clutch transmission is a bit slow at downshifts. There is a delay when downshifting. This probably can be solved with a software update for the TCT. Shifting gears up is quick with a response of 130ms. 


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Here's one mini-review with steering complaint (there were others too, including video from Chris Harris).

    "A lack of on-centre feel from its unassisted steering is the 4C’s main area of weakness. Once committed to a corner you find the balance is resolutely neutral, with an eventual fade into the mildest settling understeer."

    Usually, manual steering has sublime on-center feel (all 911's up to 1989 and Elise/Exige are good examples).

    http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/290881/alfa_romeo_4c_review_price_and_specs.html

     


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Most UK based reviews have said the steering is good but not quite as lovely as you might expect bearing in mind its unassisted


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Mmmmm okay. Now I remebered it again from the CH video indeed, but his main complaint was that steering wheel itself as far as I remember.

    i'll ask my "source" next time I speak him. Maybe he knows something about it. ;)


    --

    Suzy

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Between Honda cars (we used to call them that when Honda stood for Motorcycle) and Porsches and any other long forgotten car with un-assisted rack and pinion steering; my only complaint has ever been with my RX-7 having un-assisted worm and roller steering. It was decent at "high" speeds back in the incredibly speed limited US; but at low speeds it gave a serious workout even to a relatively young man (perhaps a smaller than average individual).

    How can a mid-engine car that is under 1000 Kg with rack and pinion un-assisted steering not be really selling itself on the steering feel in todays (power everything) market?


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Chris Harris complained about silly square shape of the steering wheel,not about the feel


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Let me explain you something about the ring, i have been racing there in many 24h.

    1) the power is very important since you have so many places which are long straight uphills where if you have no power .... Bye bye and you lose soooo many seconds. If you play at gt with play station look how long straight you have before you get to the karusell!!!!!!

    2) the ring is the only track where the brakes are never in crisis, since they are not used much and they have so many places where the braking system breaths fresh air.... So it is nothing compared to normal tracks

    3)  in the more technical part the ligthness helps a lot , but a complicated one is uphill again , where you need power.

    i really think its and incredible time for that type of car, i know that on normal tracks it will do better and give the more powerfull cars a really hard time!

    there are so many visions about the ring but so many are wrong, and i have been there and try it by my self and to drive fast you need power and a not so hard and extrem car.

    the porsches are all borned there and do all testing there.........

     


    --

    993 c2


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    xander, do you know by how much  the Trofeo tyres used reduce the lap time?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    fritz:
    SuzyF:
    reginos:

    The NBR car. Why was it taped like below?

    9762891881957482785.jpg

    That's the lightweight solution to hold the body together Smiley

    That was also my first cynical thought.  Smiley


    Ha-ha-ha, then we're already three. Smiley

    But if it's there to block panel gaps and improve airflow over the body as Iain suggests, then it must be the new ISAAA - Italian Semi-Automatic Active Aerodynamics. Smiley

    --

    The ssecret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    It's actually budget "active aero" as once you hit a certain speed it simply blows off smiley


     
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