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    Audi in Detroit

    There is a big chance that Audi will show a study of R8 with 6.0L V12 TDI engine combined with new 8speed Tiptronic.

    Personally, I am against diesel engine in sportscars but, Audi wants to see public reactions I guess...

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Should peform very well, acceleration will be great.
    I do not know how much heavier than the 8 cylinder version it will be with a big
    V12 tt engine with an 8 speed gearbox.

    Strange that they are using so many gears with an engine with so much torque.

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Big V12 TDI use very narrow rev band-this is the reason for some many gears. Weight? Since V12 only weights close to 300kg it will be very heavy(4.2L V8 in current R8 weights around 195kg)... And 8speed Tiptronic gearbox is another 60kg heavier then manual in current R8...

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Diesel is for trucks, tractors and boats... putting a diesel engine on a sportscar belittles its image IMO.
    I can let it pass on a 3-series coupe, but on an R8, come'on its ridiculous, and if I see anyone driving such a thing I won't be able to hold back a chuckle...

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    I know what you mean Carlos but Audi won Le Mans with a diesel! I know it's crazy but, as a technological exercise, it proved that Audi has what it takes

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Simply horrible...

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    It looks like an Imperial Stormtrooper from Star Wars

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    I know what you mean Carlos but Audi won Le Mans with a diesel! I know it's crazy but, as a technological exercise, it proved that Audi has what it takes



    Very true easy, but only because of the current regulations that allowed it, today Le Mans is a sad reflection of what it once was. In a race that once was of endourance and speed, its not of who can go the fastest for a long enough period of time anymore, but rather who can go with with less fuel the longest

    Regulations come and go, and in those competitions which have lost interest form the industry and media and are therefore particularly maker and diversity deprived, regulations change mainly depending on the interests of the main makers that still participate and sponsor it, for the last few years in Le Mans that means the VW-Audi group. It just like with Superbikes and the V-Twin Ducatis a few years ago.

    I truly hope they don't put a big low-reving heavy oil-burner on the R8 because the R8, with its good reviews and public acceptance was now earning its place amongst the top high-end sportcars of the market, and this would be a discrace to it

    Also, the diesel may make the power but what about the real things that separate SportCars form Sporty cars? diesels are low-reving and booring with no upper rev range which is when the fun starts, they are heavy so its not going to handle any better than its brothers, they sound horrible and its certainly not going to sound like the V8, they vibrate more and are noisier, they are not as smooth and agile, and the icing on the cake will be to see a nice white R8 with the darkened rear end from the diesel fumes

    Don't get me wrong diesel engines have come a long way and are a great option for certain cars/SUV/trucks depending on the use the owner is going to make of it, but on a high-end sportcar its simply an insult to enthusiats.

    I can't see that Audi will take this into production, I don't think it its going to help sales of the real V8 and V10 petrol versions since I don't think many sportcar enthusiasts will like to pay and have a sportcar of that level and have to share platform with a diesel version roaming the streets

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Simply horrible...



    Can you imagine pulling up to a gas station with that and saying, fill it up with diesel please

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Simply horrible...



    Can you imagine pulling up to a gas station with that and saying, fill it up with diesel please



    Carlos,
    I am probably the biggest fan of R8 here. I love the way it drives and looks. I order one. BUT, I hate this R8 TDI idea. It is wrong move from Audi IMHO...

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    I completely agree with you Kreso, the R8 is becoming well respected and popular, and this would not help that at all. Frankly I don't see it happening.

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    I hope Audi do it. It will 'break the norm' and why not? Diesels have come a long way in the last decade and they will only gain greater recognition by doing so. I for one would love to see a diesel powered supercar.

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    I know what you mean Carlos but Audi won Le Mans with a diesel! I know it's crazy but, as a technological exercise, it proved that Audi has what it takes



    Ah yes easy tis true, but wasn't it won based on the number of times they entered the pits to re-fuel, not because they were quicker! A very moot victory, but a victory nonetheless.

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    I love it. Despite the weight penalty Diesel cars will be undoubtly the future in my opinion. In the past who wanted a Diesel-cabrio - nowadays fantastic cars with straight exhaust pipes and with today's fuel costs a good choice.
    Imagine 999 Nm in a R8 with 4wheeldrive in a slightly heavier car - a small veyron I would say...(o.k. very small. )
    Buy a tracktool only if you want to be light n fast - if you wanna use it on today's crowed roads torque is what's fun for me - lot's of it...

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    I agree with Kreso and Carlos on this one. I would hate Audi to put the diesel in an R8. Sports car needs to have a wide rev band. Forget it.

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Guys... dont judge to fast.

    I think this engine will be a great performer. The torque will be stunning and the sound will be much better than you expect.

    Just wait and we talk again after the first "live" tests!

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Initially the idea hit a nerve but I am thinking Audi might try to bank this car thinking that it can transform LMP1 technology to road car.

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Why race cars are all petrol engines? (Le Mans doesn't count b/c fuel milage not performace was the determining factor ... sad but true, and uless people start to judge sportcars for their milage intead of handling and overall driving experience, that doesn't apply).

    Why hard core sportcars and supercars do not have diesel engines?

    It comical, to put a diesel on a high-end sportcar. Lets ask Ferrai what they think, or Pagani, or WW, or Askari, etc.

    Diesel engines may have great milage, they may have great torque, but they behave as the opposite as what a sportscar engine stands for... high rev range & high engine speeds (besides the sound, nothing sounds good at just 4 revs and much less a diesel engine, or weight, tolerances need to be higher on a diesel and that implies heavier engine, etc).

    In terms of sportcars and performance, torque means nothing if it its at the expense of a rev range and engine speed, and that is what a diesel engine does, why do the Formula One cars sacrifice so much torque for high HP and rev speeds? why do truck & tractors do the opposite?
    Paper figures are one thing but real life is another. Frankly, I personally find this an insult to sportcar enthusiasts.

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Why race cars are all petrol engines? (Le Mans doesn't count b/c fuel milage not performace was the determining factor ... sad but true, and uless people start to judge sportcars for their milage intead of handling and overall driving experience, that doesn't apply).

    Why hard core sportcars and supercars do not have diesel engines?

    It comical, to put a diesel on a high-end sportcar. Lets ask Ferrai what they think, or Pagani, or WW, or Askari, etc.

    Diesel engines may have great milage, they may have great torque, but they behave as the opposite as what a sportscar engine stands for... high rev range & high engine speeds (besides the sound, nothing sounds good at just 4 revs and much less a diesel engine, or weight, tolerances need to be higher on a diesel and that implies heavier engine, etc).

    In terms of sportcars and performance, torque means nothing if it its at the expense of a rev range and engine speed, and that is what a diesel engine does, why do the Formula One cars sacrifice so much torque for high HP and rev speeds? why do truck & tractors do the opposite?
    Paper figures are one thing but real life is another. Frankly, I personally find this an insult to sportcar enthusiasts.



    Carlos,
    No offend but you must be one of those guys who are crying out the loudest by any change. Probably from 964 design to 993 from 993 design to 996 from hardcore "aircooled" fan to firstly hated watercooled - to 997 S (!) lover with no thought of 997 basic since the 3.8 Liter revs so much higher than the 3.6 and delivers tremedously more punch after 7000 rpm etc etc...
    To compare Diesel/Otto discussion with a 450 kg F1 car is funny since they only reason why they turn +19000 RPM is the displacement of 2.4 Liter..
    Maybe Tturbo is also nothing for you since it kills the sporty feeling of high revving Trackcars like a 997 GT3 ? So what is then the reason for turbocharging ? HP only ???

    Anyhow, I am sure that things will change (see Merc's DiesOtto Engine) and if Horacio wil have customers demanding a 1000nm engine in a 1200kg car doing 12L/100km he will surely build that Tractor...

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    i think the picture is fake (photoshop?), but the rest seems true:
    http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080104.006/leaked-audi-r8-v12-tdi-study-for-detroit

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    TDI

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Quote:
    BjoernB said:Carlos,
    No offend but you must be one of those guys who are crying out the loudest by any change. Probably from 964 design to 993 from 993 design to 996 from hardcore "aircooled" fan to firstly hated watercooled - to 997 S (!) lover with no thought of 997 basic since the 3.8 Liter revs so much higher than the 3.6 and delivers tremedously more punch after 7000 rpm etc etc...



    "One of thouse guys" ... If you would of been reading Reenteam for a while you would know that you couldn't be more wrong my first 911 was a 996 and loved it, and know I drive a 997 and love it even more



    Quote:
    Maybe Tturbo is also nothing for you since it kills the sporty feeling of high revving Trackcars like a 997 GT3 ? So what is then the reason for turbocharging ? HP only ???



    I guess you are "one of those guys" who like to make premature conceptions of people without really knowing them or what they think While I preffer atmospherics if posible because of the power delivery and character of the engine, I also like Turbos since they also offer other advantages. Neither excludes the other. Love the GT3 and love the 997TT. However how many of us would like a diesel 911??? well, same with the R8

    Quote:
    Anyhow, I am sure that things will change (see Merc's DiesOtto Engine) and if Horacio wil have customers demanding a 1000nm engine in a 1200kg car doing 12L/100km he will surely build that Tractor...



    Sure they will change, some change is good and some is bad, to uphold that only either is absolute is not very smart. This is only a marketing ploy form Audi to sell more diesel cars, which is what Audi mainly sells, thats the reason for the LeMans diesel car, and now trying to imporve the image of a diesel by placing it on their flagship sportcar. Not because a diesel engine will bring any sportiveness or better handling&performance to the R8 not unless they have made a new revolutionary engine that has absolutely nothing to do with any other diesel engine on the planet.

    Anyway, some will like it some will not, I personally viscerally reject the idea

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Read this. Very interesting...
    http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=3617682

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Indeed, interesting, thanks WAY.

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Well, Fourtitude George is probably wrong...

    I learned few things about R8 V12 TDI-it will be shown purely as a concept:

    -no storage area behinde the seats since V12 TDI is pretty big
    Engine will use dry sump system and oil storage tank is placed counterpart to the gas tank.
    The oil is forwarded through deep mounted oil coolers (behind Sideblades) by a bilge pump. Water-intercoolers are located in the front, two sitting left/right behind the (larger) air intakes, the center mounted 3rd one behind the singleframe. Capacities are increased by cca 30% for thermic reliability. The oil circulation is good for a lateral acceleration up to 1.21g.
    Gearbox(DSG) is developed by Ricardo.

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Hope you are right KresoF1, there would be anything wrong with it if it were just a concept.

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Carlos,
    we will see pretty soon...

    BTW, regarding forthcoming R8 V10 just as a hint:
    -manual and S-Tronic(hint http://www.getrag.de/en/253 )
    -no more R-Tronic
    -more then 510hp
    -NA engine

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    S-tronic and 510hp? Wow, that would be something to look forward to! That would give any Ferrari, Lambo and Porsche a canning in terms of performance!

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Indeed the V10 with a 7-speed dual-clutch is going to shake things up in the high-end scene

    Re: Audi in Detroit

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Indeed the V10 with a 7-speed dual-clutch is going to shake things up in the high-end scene



    The S-Tronic sadly isn't a DC transmission. Just a repackaged E-gear.

     
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