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    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    SciFrog:
    sidicks:
    SciFrog:

    First we are talking RR Sport vs Cayenne...

    Second we are talking about the brand new RR chassis, just to be sure.

    Third: who cares about off road. Taking a $80k car off road is just plain stupid and that's not why these cars are really build for anyway.

    IMHO if a $100k RRS comes even close to a $140k Cayenne turbo in handling, it is a huge win for the RR.

    I think you are deluded!

    I am not deluded, I am asking a question, and have yet to have a comprehensive answer... Saw the if in my post above? We all know the handling winner is the Cayenne GTS, but it is not worth (to me) replacing the 09 CTTS by the GTS. However the technology and third row of the RRS is appealing if the handling gets close to the Cayenne TT. The $$ savings isn't bad too, no complaints but after 4 years my $140k Cayenne is worth less than $45k...

    To get back on topic, IMHO the Macan is just too small for families in the US.

    I agree that you are not deluded in your analysis.  The RRS is a win based on any reasonable price versus performance metric.  I can purchase a very well optioned RRS for less than a GTS; I am above the price of the RRS supercharged before I even leave the second page on Porsche's configurator.  

    The RRS may not have the precise handling at the limit when compared with the GTS; however, for every day usage one would be hard pressed to ascertain any real world differences beyond the wild exhaust of the RRS. 


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    reginos:

    BMW have been selling over 30.000 X3s in the USA in most years since 2004. Apparently there is a niche for the Macan too.

    --

    "Form follows function"

    Agreed!  Smiley  I think it will sell like crazy here.


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    SciFrog, I think I agree that a new GTS is not enticing enough to let your CTTS go.  But a barely used 2012 or 2013 Cayenne Turbo might be a good choice, at the same price (or below) the RRS.  I saw some on the Porsche USA Web site for around 90K US.  The used CTs have already taken the big depreciation hit, and a new RRS would surely depreciate rapidly just like any new car.  

    Regarding the value of  your 09 CTTS, I think you are talking the low trade in value at a dealership.  I have been offered 50K for mine (30K miles) at my dealership.  Also, 09s are being offered for 70K plus on the same Porsche USA site.  


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Porsche Facebook page.
    "Curious about the sound of the new Porsche Macan?
    Follow the link, sit back and enjoy: http://link.porsche.com/macan-sound"
     


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Wonderbar:

    SciFrog, I think I agree that a new GTS is not enticing enough to let your CTTS go.  But a barely used 2012 or 2013 Cayenne Turbo might be a good choice, at the same price (or below) the RRS.  I saw some on the Porsche USA Web site for around 90K US.  The used CTs have already taken the big depreciation hit, and a new RRS would surely depreciate rapidly just like any new car.  

    Regarding the value of  your 09 CTTS, I think you are talking the low trade in value at a dealership.  I have been offered 50K for mine (30K miles) at my dealership.  Also, 09s are being offered for 70K plus on the same Porsche USA site.  

    Sharp analysis as usual. Not a big fan of buying a used daily driver... For an exotic, that's different. MY CTTS has 40k miles, my friend traded in his 09 with 55k miles over a year ago for $50k. I can't be far off around $45k. With the tax savings, it is not worth the hassle and personal risks to sell private. Porsche website prices? Inflated, they will trade much lower and include some warranty...


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    The world premiere of the Macan is going to be at the LA Autoshow in the Petree hall (Porsche stand).

    The Macan will be unveiled on the eve of the trade fair event on November 19, at 7:55 pm (November 20th, 3:55 am CET). This premiere of the Porsche Macan will be broadcasted live over the following link: www.porsche.com/macan. The press conference will take place on November 20th at 11:35 am (November 20th, 9:35 pm CET). 

    blush11 days more to go, guys. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Thanks RC!


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    I will not be able to go to press days in LA.  Great friends are coming to visit over that time.  

    I will truly miss the show, especially the chance to see the Macan up close.  

    Anyone else going over press days?


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    ...what bums me out a bit is that the Macan is really wide: 1.92 m versus 1.93 m of the Cayenne... as mentioned before in a post sizes of cars are getting ridiculous...It doesn't matter in the US but here in Europe parking spaces and roads are pretty tight...


    --

    turbolite


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    I feel the same!


    --

    1987 911 Carrera 3.2 - 1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2012 Cayenne Diesel - 2013 Mini Cooper S - 1995 BMW318ti


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    turbolite:

    ...what bums me out a bit is that the Macan is really wide: 1.92 m versus 1.93 m of the Cayenne... as mentioned before in a post sizes of cars are getting ridiculous...It doesn't matter in the US but here in Europe parking spaces and roads are pretty tight...

    Wow, didn't realize that. For me this is the biggest negative on the Cayenne. Parking spaces in Europe are too narrow, so you always risk getting a door pushed against your car when you park somewhere.


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

    Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    993Targa:
    turbolite:

    ...what bums me out a bit is that the Macan is really wide: 1.92 m versus 1.93 m of the Cayenne... as mentioned before in a post sizes of cars are getting ridiculous...It doesn't matter in the US but here in Europe parking spaces and roads are pretty tight...

    Wow, didn't realize that. For me this is the biggest negative on the Cayenne. Parking spaces in Europe are too narrow, so you always risk getting a door pushed against your car when you park somewhere.

    Indeed. My X6 is 1.98m and the main reason I would not buy it again is this width. You always have to search for the extra wide parking space, which often doesnt exist. Obviously it's also easy to scratch the 20" rims. The turning circle is also very wide so that for example in the Coop parking (department store) in St Moritz,  it is not possible to get down without manouvring forth and back. Ridiculous! 

    Not sure this will be much better in the Macan - 6 cm...Smiley


    --

    turbolite


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    image.jpg

    Seems to be the official spec figures for the Macan lineup.

    The weight is higher than I thought it should have been. Turbo weight at 1947kg. Performance for turbo quite decent. 0-100 in 4,8 and top speed of 269km/h

    1923mm wide is not far from being as wide as the Cayenne which is 1939mm. Too wide maybe.

    What I don't understand is Porsches strategy for the diesel. Why have so much worse performance for the Diesel S than an Audi SQ5? The 0-100 for SQ5 is 5,1 and top speed of 250km/h vs the Macan 6,2 sec to 100 and top speed of only 225km/h. Wonder if they will introduce a Macan Turbo (diesel) with the bigger engine later on? In Europe at least I think this would sell better...


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    i would suggest that as it relates to diesel, Porsche is the Massa of Ferrari - gets to decide within the paremeters of the bigger group picture

     

    great find there though - thx


    --

    2013 Lotus Evora S/ 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual

    2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold //2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    i am not impressed that it is still almost  4.7m long


    --

    2013 Lotus Evora S/ 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual

    2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold //2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Lukas:

    image.jpg

    Seems to be the official spec figures for the Macan lineup.

    The weight is higher than I thought it should have been. Turbo weight at 1947kg. Performance for turbo quite decent. 0-100 in 4,8 and top speed of 269km/h

    1923mm wide is not far from being as wide as the Cayenne which is 1939mm. Too wide maybe.

    What I don't understand is Porsches strategy for the diesel. Why have so much worse performance for the Diesel S than an Audi SQ5? The 0-100 for SQ5 is 5,1 and top speed of 250km/h vs the Macan 6,2 sec to 100 and top speed of only 225km/h. Wonder if they will introduce a Macan Turbo (diesel) with the bigger engine later on? In Europe at least I think this would sell better...

    That seems to be it, thanks Lukas! It does not look like the Macan will be a serious RS4 challenger.

    I feel some disappointment here. 1947kg is heavy. 0-100 in 4.8 is good, but to 200 it will take 19 seconds probably. Quick for a Suv, but much slower than Cayenne turbo and in the same league as Bmw 135 and similar cars. 550 NM is also good but not great for 3.6 liter displacement, my 996 tt had 560 Nm 13 years ago! 

    My secret favourite alternative, the new Alpina B3 Touring AWD looks certainly better and better at least on paper: 1745 kg, 8 gears, 410 hp with 600 Nm out of 3.0 liter, 0-100 in 4.1s, 0-200 in 15 s, vmax 302 kmh! And this with a width of  just 1.81 m.  

    Guess now the wait for the Macan Turbo S begins??? cheeky


    --

    turbolite


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Excuse my Chinese, but I believe the fuel capacity is really small compared to the Cayenne. The S Diesel seems to be 60 liters only, we'll above the optional 100 liters of the Cayenne. I can make 1.000 kms easily with one fill tank in mine. 


    --

    1987 911 Carrera 3.2 - 1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2012 Cayenne Diesel - 2013 Mini Cooper S - 1995 BMW318ti


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    CPA4S:

    i am not impressed that it is still almost  4.7m long


    --

    2013 Lotus Evora S/ 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual

    2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold //2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold

    10 cm shorter than my GTs and still 90% of the weight??? baby SUV - i am missing the baby part????


    --

    2013 Lotus Evora S/ 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual

    2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold //2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    haven't they knocked almost 1000 lbs. off the gts's weight?


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    CPA4S:
    CPA4S:

    i am not impressed that it is still almost  4.7m long


    --

    2013 Lotus Evora S/ 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual

    2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold //2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold

    10 cm shorter than my GTs and still 90% of the weight??? baby SUV - i am missing the baby part????

    This is not a 5 door sportscar as Porsche would like us to believe, it's just another lifestyle SUV!Smiley

    The base Cayenne weighs (DIN) 1995 kg, just 50 kg more! Cayenne S is at 2065 kg with the V8 (GTS at 2085kg  i believe).  Same width basically and just 20 cm shorter, how could it be any different?? Cayenne FL might even shed some Kgs when it also gets the V6 turbo engines..

    Makes the Cayenne look like a masterpiece of lightweight technology....


    --

    turbolite


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Edmunds, here in the us, weighed their test gts at over 5100 lbs.    You can read curb weights all over the place, I think best to find those that have been weighed by the testers themselves.      I do see fairly consistent curb weights of around 4500 to 4600 for the base cayenne with little or no options.  


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Van-:

    Edmunds, here in the us, weighed their test gts at over 5100 lbs.    You can read curb weights all over the place, I think best to find those that have been weighed by the testers themselves.      I do see fairly consistent curb weights of around 4500 to 4600 for the base cayenne with little or no options.  

    The best we can do at this point in time for argument's sake is comparing apples to apples, i.e. Porsche's official DIN weight indication for both cars...  

    Instead of creating a true smaller and nimbler alternative to the Cayenne (for example for GTS owners wanting to go more sporty) they have bloated up the Q5 chassis to almost reach Cayenne proportions. Sure the car will still be a huge success, but as a lifestyle Suv for people who don't need the maximum boot size of a normal Suv, nothing else.


    --

    turbolite


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    turbolite:
    This is not a 5 door sportscar as Porsche would like us to believe, it's just another lifestyle SUV!Smiley

    The base Cayenne weighs (DIN) 1995 kg, just 50 kg more! Cayenne S is at 2065 kg with the V8 (GTS at 2085kg  i believe).  Same width basically and just 20 cm shorter, how could it be any different?? Cayenne FL might even shed some Kgs when it also gets the V6 turbo engines..

    Makes the Cayenne look like a masterpiece of lightweight technology....

    Did I miss something here? Where did Porsche state the Macan will be a 5 door sportscar? Smiley

    The Macan is the entry level Porsche SUV, for those who would want but cannot (or don't want to) afford a Cayenne.

    I am pretty sure that the typical Macan customer won't care much about weight or sportiness but more about the price and looks (which are similar to the Cayenne...intentionally). Also the typical Macan customer may care about fuel consumption and I am pretty sure that the S Diesel will be the bestseller here in Europe.

    The weight disappoints a little bit, indeed (I expected 18xx kg for the Turbo and less than 1800 kg for the other models) but I guess this was the only way to make sure that rigidity is capable of handling the stiffer/sportier chassis setups (vs. the Audi counterpart). I'm also quite sure that the V6 bi-turbo engines will be heavier.

    Performance-wise, the Turbo is quite OK (4.8 seconds from 0-100 kph) but if this car costs 120k with some options, it won't be a huge success, especially since size-wise, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference between the Macan and the Cayenne.

    So basically, the Macan is a (pretty good though) "knock-off" of the Cayenne at a cheaper price. I'm not 100% sure this strategy will work for Porsche but it may. I know many people who didn't get a Cayenne because they considered it to be too expensive. The Macan might change that.

    With the Macan in the game, Porsche will have to do substantially better with the next Cayenne generation. I actually think this is actually exactly what is going to happen. 

    My next family car could be the Macan Turbo if I can keep the price tag (with all necessary options) below 100k EUR. If not, well...Cayenne again (or a Mercedes AMG SUV...the price tag plays a bigger role now since I got the 991 Turbo S.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Porsche did state that they could have built an Suv, instead they decided to build a Sportscar with 5 doors. 

    Even if you dont take them literally, this macan feels more like a Suv than anything else... Let's see how the final and real version will look like when introduced in a couple of days! 


    --

    turbolite


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    turbolite:

    Porsche did state that they could have built an Suv, instead they decided to build a Sportscar with 5 doors.

    Even if you dont take them literally, this macan feels more like a Suv than anything else... Let's see how the final and real version will look like when introduced in a couple of days! 

    I don't say they didn't say this, I just haven't read it anywhere. Do you have a source of some kind? This claim (5 door sportscar) doesn't sound too credible for a SUV, even if it weights 100-150 kg less than the Cayenne.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    There RC.Screen Shot 2013-11-12 at 12.01.27 am.png


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    IMHO Macan has identity problem. Porsche aims at buyers of Audi SQ5 and BMW M4 Coupe. They think that potential buyers of those cars can get something unique and combined into single entity-a mid size sport SUV.

    Macan should be as fast on the autobahn as new M4(and it wont be, sorry Porsche) and as practicle as SQ5 for daily/all weather usage.

    Macan will probably have a good sale.But, IMHO it is almost a most pointless car in current Porsche range. 


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Thanks pxaxh, that is the publicity I was referring to. Pretty bold statement......yes


    --

    turbolite


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    Its too heavy. 1700kg+ would be good for that type of car, maybe as RC stated 1800kg for the Turbo but not more. I gonna decide between Q3 RS and M3 as my next daily.


    Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN Thread Closed

    I agree that Porsche marketing overstates Macan's sports car image, but the car should sell well as a small performance oriented SUV.  It will be more practical than an M4 coupe, and more sporty than the SQ5. 

    In my area of the US, however, I think buyers will be buyers who simply want the convenience of an SUV, without the bulk and fuel requirements of a larger one.  Porsche's image--which is deservedly unique and attractive, will add to the decision.

    And , as far as the comment that the Macan is only another life-style SUV, almost every luxury car is a life-style choice.


     
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