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    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    Like Fanch said in a post earlier, Porsche is almost invisible next to Ferrari.



    To some, that's a plus.



    Why do some people find that so hard to believe I don't want car-jewerly I want a car I enjoy driving and serves my needs, attracting attention is a hassle and a pain in the neck that can sometimes even get in the way of enjoying the car.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    Like Fanch said in a post earlier, Porsche is almost invisible next to Ferrari.



    To some, that's a plus.



    Why do some people find that so hard to believe I don't want car-jewerly I want a car I enjoy driving and serves my needs, attracting attention is a hassle and a pain in the neck that can sometimes even get in the way of enjoying the car.



    European mentality is different from others, IMO. I don't want to have people constantly oogling me when driving around (and a Porsche is imposing enough).

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    Like Fanch said in a post earlier, Porsche is almost invisible next to Ferrari.



    To some, that's a plus.



    Why do some people find that so hard to believe I don't want car-jewerly I want a car I enjoy driving and serves my needs, attracting attention is a hassle and a pain in the neck that can sometimes even get in the way of enjoying the car.



    Then why not get a suped up sedan? Honestly I can't figure out some of you...
    Let me give you a dose of reality but to the lay-person a sports car that costs over 100K is not exactly low key. Why make it a mission to debunk one manufacturer to feel better about your preference? Half the time it just sounds like sour grapes.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    Like Fanch said in a post earlier, Porsche is almost invisible next to Ferrari.



    To some, that's a plus.



    Why do some people find that so hard to believe I don't want car-jewerly I want a car I enjoy driving and serves my needs, attracting attention is a hassle and a pain in the neck that can sometimes even get in the way of enjoying the car.



    Then why not get a suped up sedan? Honestly I can't figure out some of you...
    Let me give you a dose of reality but to the lay-person a sports car that costs over 100K is not exactly low key. Why make it a mission to debunk one manufacturer to feel better about your preference? Half the time it just sounds like sour grapes.



    Because a sedan isn't a sports car. Unlike most of the US, we can actually use cars to their potential here.
    Face it, we don't like Ferraris (more than P-cars), we don't want Ferraris (more than P-cars) and we can definitely buy Ferrari 430s at almost the same prices here as 997TTs.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    Like Fanch said in a post earlier, Porsche is almost invisible next to Ferrari.



    To some, that's a plus.



    Why do some people find that so hard to believe I don't want car-jewerly I want a car I enjoy driving and serves my needs, attracting attention is a hassle and a pain in the neck that can sometimes even get in the way of enjoying the car.



    Then why not get a suped up sedan? Honestly I can't figure out some of you...
    Let me give you a dose of reality but to the lay-person a sports car that costs over 100K is not exactly low key. Why make it a mission to debunk one manufacturer to feel better about your preference? Half the time it just sounds like sour grapes.



    Because a sedan isn't a sports car. Unlike most of the US, we can actually use cars to their potential here.
    Face it, we don't like Ferraris (more than P-cars), we don't want Ferraris (more than P-cars) and we can definitely buy Ferrari 430s at almost the same prices here as 997TTs.



    Well that may be true however like it or not the U.S. happens to be the largest single market for Porsche (more than all of Europe combined). So they very much have to consider what their competitors are up to. The way you guys pat Porsche on the back for everything they do is remarkable. I like Porsches but I also like sports cars period.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    I think Porsche ownership is more to do with having a high need for affiliation, holding back on the car you really want more to "please" the others.
    RC is in that situation because of his neighbours; he'd like a Lamborghini but would never get one because of his neighbours. Too many people worry about what others think and about "fitting in". What kind of life is that?
    A Ferrari is about emotion and passion, Porsche is about suppressed emotion.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    I honestly don't see the point of comparing the twos. People talking about having deeper soul in F-cars than P-cars, should go back and go through the history of porsche. You will see it's a whole different perspective. Ferrari and Porsche are completely different. They are 2 unique brands and 2 unique/different souls in sportscar history

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    A Ferrari is about emotion and passion, Porsche is about suppressed emotion.


    I can't believe you have the nerve to come on a PORSCHE board with that crap. Really.
    If you're the type that needs to flaunt his wealth in order to be content with his life then fine, but don't project your pathetic view of the sportscars world on the thousands of members here.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    A Ferrari is about emotion and passion, Porsche is about suppressed emotion.


    I can't believe you have the nerve to come on a PORSCHE board with that crap. Really.
    If you're the type that needs to flaunt his wealth in order to be content with his life then fine, but don't project your pathetic view of the sportscars world on the thousands of members here.




    please calm down. your reply is way more agressive than vinnie's statement.

    there's no need for another senseless escalation regarding the F vs P topic.

    btw, RENNTEAM is focussed on porsche, but not a "porsche only" board.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    I preffer Porsche. 997TT to be exact, but what a nice arrangement to be able to drive a 997TT for the everyday driving and an F430 for the weekends. WOW

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    I think Porsche ownership is more to do with having a high need for affiliation, holding back on the car you really want more to "please" the others.
    RC is in that situation because of his neighbours; he'd like a Lamborghini but would never get one because of his neighbours. Too many people worry about what others think and about "fitting in". What kind of life is that?
    A Ferrari is about emotion and passion, Porsche is about suppressed emotion.



    Vinnie,
    that is certainly true for many Europeans (and even Americans), but I don't subscribe to the thought of "caring about others' opinion". I want a brand with heritage (both F and P have that), performance (F and P), but I don't give a crap about exclusivity (like I said, I don't give a crap about others enough, to care about exclusivity).
    I simply like the 997TT better than the F430, that's it.

    SoCal: very true about the US market, but it isn't its only market.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    I think Porsche ownership is more to do with having a high need for affiliation, holding back on the car you really want more to "please" the others.
    A Ferrari is about emotion and passion, Porsche is about suppressed emotion.




    WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    I preffer Porsche. 997TT to be exact, but what a nice arrangement to be able to drive a 997TT for the everyday driving and an F430 for the weekends. WOW



    True, but I can afford only one. I'd buy the 430 as a second car, but only as a complement to the Tuirbo.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    A Ferrari is about emotion and passion, Porsche is about suppressed emotion.


    I can't believe you have the nerve to come on a PORSCHE board with that crap. Really.
    If you're the type that needs to flaunt his wealth in order to be content with his life then fine, but don't project your pathetic view of the sportscars world on the thousands of members here.




    please calm down. your reply is way more agressive than vinnie's statement.


    Yes it is, but only to vinnie, while he was insulting thousands of porsche enthusiasts on this board.
    I wasn't referring to Ferrari owners in general, only to his view. Sorry, if you want to make me to just swallow his arrogant BS (which coincidentally is frowned upon even on f-chat), you'd better ban me now.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Mine would be a 997TT as my daily driver, with a 997GT3RS over weekends

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    A Ferrari is about emotion and passion, Porsche is about suppressed emotion.


    I can't believe you have the nerve to come on a PORSCHE board with that crap. Really.
    If you're the type that needs to flaunt his wealth in order to be content with his life then fine, but don't project your pathetic view of the sportscars world on the thousands of members here.




    please calm down. your reply is way more agressive than vinnie's statement.


    Yes it is, but only to vinnie, while he was insulting thousands of porsche enthusiasts on this board.
    I wasn't referring to Ferrari owners in general, only to his view. Sorry, if you want to make me to just swallow his arrogant BS (which coincidentally is frowned upon even on f-chat), you'd better ban me now.



    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    997TT for the everyday driving and an F430 for the weekends. WOW



    true

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Then why not get a suped up sedan? Honestly I can't figure out some of you...
    Let me give you a dose of reality but to the lay-person a sports car that costs over 100K is not exactly low key. Why make it a mission to debunk one manufacturer to feel better about your preference? Half the time it just sounds like sour grapes.



    C'mon, I know you can answer that for yourself, otherwise do this: drive a suped up sedan and then jump in a 911 for a drive... can you tell any difference? Right.

    BTW, before my 996C4 and 997S I had a BMW E36-M3, and yes I had the car debadged. And I loved that about the M3. Guess that must of been a mortal sin in Cali but not here.


    A 911 is not low key compared to more economic cars obviously, but if you re-read the discussion we are comparing a F430 vs a 911. The 911 is more low key, and that is a plus to some of us. Its beautiful, classic lines, etc. but not too much attention grabbing. The F430 is also beuatiful but in a different way and attracts way too much attention... to each his own. But not everybody around the worlkd think that the flashier the sportcar the better, there are other uses for a sportcar...

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    The F430 is a beautiful car and sounds great, but I will take the 997TT any day over the Ferarri. By the way I side with Brunner. If Vinnie has the nerve to take a cheap shot at Porsche enthusiasts on this board with no provocation, I'm glad people like Brunner are here to stand up and put him in his place. Way to go Brunner!

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Then why not get a suped up sedan? Honestly I can't figure out some of you...
    Let me give you a dose of reality but to the lay-person a sports car that costs over 100K is not exactly low key. Why make it a mission to debunk one manufacturer to feel better about your preference? Half the time it just sounds like sour grapes.



    But not everybody around the worlkd think that the flashier the sportcar the better, there are other uses for a sportcar...



    Yeah, there are other uses, such as driving them hard and enjoying the sensation. People who worry about bling are NOT true sports car enthusiasts. I can't believe that the thing that is quoted to be superior on a Ferrari vs. a Porsche is BLING. What the hell?
    This Rennteam, not Blingteam or Gangstarappahzteam.com

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    The F430 is a beautiful car and sounds great, but I will take the 997TT any day over the Ferarri. By the way I side with Brunner. If Vinnie has the nerve to take a cheap shot at Porsche enthusiasts on this board with no provocation, I'm glad people like Brunner are here to stand up and put him in his place. Way to go Brunner!



    I fully agree.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    If Vinnie has the nerve to take a cheap shot at Porsche enthusiasts on this board with no provocation, I'm glad people like Brunner are here to stand up and put him in his place. Way to go Brunner!



    if someone states that in his opinion "porsche is about surpressed emotion" you all feel offended?? ok. maybe so. i've owned quite some porsches and didn't feel offended, i actually smiled about it.

    but anyway -- no need to backfire on it in such a harsh way, vinnie is not a hooligan member.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    Like Fanch said in a post earlier, Porsche is almost invisible next to Ferrari.



    To some, that's a plus.



    Why do some people find that so hard to believe I don't want car-jewerly I want a car I enjoy driving and serves my needs, attracting attention is a hassle and a pain in the neck that can sometimes even get in the way of enjoying the car.



    Then why not get a suped up sedan? Honestly I can't figure out some of you...
    Let me give you a dose of reality but to the lay-person a sports car that costs over 100K is not exactly low key. Why make it a mission to debunk one manufacturer to feel better about your preference? Half the time it just sounds like sour grapes.



    Because a sedan isn't a sports car. Unlike most of the US, we can actually use cars to their potential here.
    Face it, we don't like Ferraris (more than P-cars), we don't want Ferraris (more than P-cars) and we can definitely buy Ferrari 430s at almost the same prices here as 997TTs.



    Well that may be true however like it or not the U.S. happens to be the largest single market for Porsche (more than all of Europe combined). So they very much have to consider what their competitors are up to. The way you guys pat Porsche on the back for everything they do is remarkable. I like Porsches but I also like sports cars period.



    LA, the land of bling, only buys about 20% of new US F/65/Turbos (and prob a much higher % of used car sales )
    NYC and SF in total prob buy 50% of new US F/65/Turbos....and the car preferences of Greenwich and Woodside tend to be far more similar to German or London prefs than those of LA or Miami, where there is more of fascination w/"look-at-me"/trailer park deluxe brands/colors/tinted windows and aftermkt stuff....

    Most senior guys in any respectable and lucrative business are already known to be wealthy to everyone that matters in their universe; so, they don't need/want a car to advertise their wealth....in fact, lots of guys purposefully avoid routinely driving F's to office to avoid irritating colleagues/clients/investors/employees, etc, esp around times of sensitive financial discussions, e.g. pay and bonuses....

    There's also prob more downside than upside to advertising one's wealth to anonymous people on public roads....assume you'll be sued in any accid, no matter fault, if you're perceived to have "deep pockets" by the other party and their ambulance chasers....

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    I think Porsche ownership is more to do with having a high need for affiliation, holding back on the car you really want more to "please" the others.
    RC is in that situation because of his neighbours; he'd like a Lamborghini but would never get one because of his neighbours. Too many people worry about what others think and about "fitting in". What kind of life is that?
    A Ferrari is about emotion and passion, Porsche is about suppressed emotion.



    Thats one take on it Vinnie. A 997TT looks more conservative than a F430 but both look like ancient dishwater next to a Murcielago. You really have to be a nut to pay these prices, so dont be discouraged by any reactions you get comparing one to the other here.


    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Then why not get a suped up sedan? Honestly I can't figure out some of you...
    Let me give you a dose of reality but to the lay-person a sports car that costs over 100K is not exactly low key. Why make it a mission to debunk one manufacturer to feel better about your preference? Half the time it just sounds like sour grapes.



    C'mon, I know you can answer that for yourself, otherwise do this: drive a suped up sedan and then jump in a 911 for a drive... can you tell any difference? Right.

    BTW, before my 996C4 and 997S I had a BMW E36-M3, and yes I had the car debadged. And I loved that about the M3. Guess that must of been a mortal sin in Cali but not here.


    A 911 is not low key compared to more economic cars obviously, but if you re-read the discussion we are comparing a F430 vs a 911. The 911 is more low key, and that is a plus to some of us. Its beautiful, classic lines, etc. but not too much attention grabbing. The F430 is also beuatiful but in a different way and attracts way too much attention... to each his own. But not everybody around the worlkd think that the flashier the sportcar the better, there are other uses for a sportcar...



    Very well said.
    It would be impossible to find a sedan that would be able to 1) lap a track as fast as a 997TT, or 2) offer real driving excitement while doing it.

    To me the Porsche is all about balance. It is definitely not the most understated or reserved car, but it doesn't shout "Everybody look at me!" It is so versatile for a sports car too. You can take it grocery shopping or to work everyday without issue.

    The Ferrari is the more extreme car. No matter where you go or what you do the car will be loud and flashy, and you'll attract a large crowd.

    Because the Porsche is so usable, I can understand why Vinnie would say that Porsches are about suppressed emotion. I disagree with the statement though. Porsches can be reserved and held back when they need to be, but get them to a track or a windy road and they'll put to rest any questions about lacking passion or excitement.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    DamienL
    Very eloquent way of describing the utility and thrill Porsche has to offer! Well said

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    DamienL said:


    To me the Porsche is all about balance. It is definitely not the most understated or reserved car, but it doesn't shout "Everybody look at me!" It is so versatile for a sports car too. You can take it grocery shopping or to work everyday without issue.

    The Ferrari is the more extreme car. No matter where you go or what you do the car will be loud and flashy, and you'll attract a large crowd.





    A bright red 997 TT with the tail will attract a LOT of attention in most places. My 928 with its shape and custom sound attracts a lot of attention but most ferrari/lambo's come in outrageous colors and it is all part of an image.

    Image is the thing. When people see the big P-O-R-S-C-H-E on the back of the car they respect it and think thats cool, but when they see ferrari its brings a different image to mind. In the US a lot of that is really due to TV (magnum, miami vice)and movies, somewhat F1. The other reason is that porsche has always had an entry level vehicle.

    Those things make porsche more accessable and ferrari out of reach. So drive what fits you.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    RC said: I hope the 997 Turbo is faster and I actually think it is but the F430 is a great car too




    The fact that one can only HOPE (!) that the 997TT is faster than the F430 shows how miserable a car the 997TT is (in particular with manual gear shift).

    I still cannot understand how Porsche could present such a disappointing car.

    You need an out-dated tiptronic to improve straight-line performance in lower speed ranges. However, you then have to accept that the Tip ruins the driving experience.

    Porsche is on its way down.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said: I hope the 997 Turbo is faster and I actually think it is but the F430 is a great car too




    The fact that one can only HOPE (!) that the 997TT is faster than the F430 shows how miserable a car the 997TT is (in particular with manual gear shift).

    I still cannot understand how Porsche could present such a disappointing car.

    You need an out-dated tiptronic to improve straight-line performance in lower speed ranges. However, you then have to accept that the Tip ruins the driving experience.

    Porsche is on its way down.



    MKSGR, don't worry! Dr. Phil (the Danish one, not the guy from TV ) said that the Turbo S will be here sooner than expected. That ought to cheer you up (and me too ).
    Btw, what does MKSGR mean anyway?
    Muss mit Keinen Sorgen Gefährlich Rennen?

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    The antagonizer is back, cheers

     
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