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Jun 24, 2005 12:29:51 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 998 in 2007?
Who ever says that doesn't have a clue about Porsche AG. Expect a "facelift" 997 in MY2008 and the completely new 998 or whatever its called around MY 2011, depending on the market and competion. Porsche in now working on rolling out the rest of the 997 derivatives, and on the sedan.
Jun 24, 2005 4:31:22 PM
- MKW
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: 998 in 2007?
A company so focused on profit and nickel and diming it's buyers , while gradually " evolving " it's iconic 911 , will milk every last cent of it's devevlopment cost on the 997 by tarting it up with an endless variety of submodels just like on the 996. Expect a 5-6 year run.
Jun 24, 2005 6:10:08 PM
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Ron (Houston)
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Re: 998 in 2007?
Quote:
MKW said:
A company so focused on profit and nickel and diming it's buyers , while gradually " evolving " it's iconic 911 , will milk every last cent of it's devevlopment cost on the 997 by tarting it up with an endless variety of submodels just like on the 996. Expect a 5-6 year run.
Development cost???
They do not have a styling dept.(the 997 was designed by the same guy that designed the 993 and he is retired) so no cost there.
The interior involved some upgrade materials which are paid for by the customers. The Steering wheel is shared with the VW. So no cost there.
The engine is a reworked 996 engine with the S getting more hp. So no cost there.
Where is the development cost? With the Cayman, the 4 door sedan and the 911 replacement which may be introduced sooner if 911 sales do not pick up.
Re: 998 in 2007?
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
MKW said:
A company so focused on profit and nickel and diming it's buyers , while gradually " evolving " it's iconic 911 , will milk every last cent of it's devevlopment cost on the 997 by tarting it up with an endless variety of submodels just like on the 996. Expect a 5-6 year run.
Development cost???
Read between the lines , Sir Nixalot . They will milk the $1.25 ( one hundred twenty five cents ) development cost of the 997 for all it's buyers can bear and not a penny less. There- is that easier for you , now ? 997 facelift 2007 for a typical 5- 6 year run ( like it's competitors ) ...then 998 intro'd in 2010 as a model year 2011- take that to the bank.
Jun 24, 2005 8:32:16 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 998 in 2007?
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
MKW said:
A company so focused on profit and nickel and diming it's buyers , while gradually " evolving " it's iconic 911 , will milk every last cent of it's devevlopment cost on the 997 by tarting it up with an endless variety of submodels just like on the 996. Expect a 5-6 year run.
Development cost???
They do not have a styling dept.(the 997 was designed by the same guy that designed the 993 and he is retired) so no cost there.
The interior involved some upgrade materials which are paid for by the customers. The Steering wheel is shared with the VW. So no cost there.
The engine is a reworked 996 engine with the S getting more hp. So no cost there.
Where is the development cost? With the Cayman, the 4 door sedan and the 911 replacement which may be introduced sooner if 911 sales do not pick up.
Shows how familiar you are with the 997, time to do a little reading Nick before you blurt out such statements and get yourself into such discussions...
And as to the "if sales do not pick up" bit, this will keep you busy, just make sure you take some omeprazol before you read it or you may get a nasty ulcer
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/06/01/110719.html
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0503/01/autos-102746.htm
Jun 24, 2005 8:53:06 PM
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nberry
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: 998 in 2007?
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
MKW said:
A company so focused on profit and nickel and diming it's buyers , while gradually " evolving " it's iconic 911 , will milk every last cent of it's devevlopment cost on the 997 by tarting it up with an endless variety of submodels just like on the 996. Expect a 5-6 year run.
Development cost???
They do not have a styling dept.(the 997 was designed by the same guy that designed the 993 and he is retired) so no cost there.
The interior involved some upgrade materials which are paid for by the customers. The Steering wheel is shared with the VW. So no cost there.
The engine is a reworked 996 engine with the S getting more hp. So no cost there.
Where is the development cost? With the Cayman, the 4 door sedan and the 911 replacement which may be introduced sooner if 911 sales do not pick up.
Shows how familiar you are with the 997, time to do a little reading Nick before you blurt out such statements and get yourself into such discussions...
And as to the "if sales do not pick up" bit, this will keep you busy, just make sure you take some omeprazol before you read it or you may get a nasty ulcer
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/06/01/110719.html
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0503/01/autos-102746.htm
Carlos, I only wish I had your on a witness stand with you using these numbers to validate that Porsche sales are "robust". I would eat you up and spit you out like you were a peanut.
Here is a hint...prior year sales were atrocious. The Boxster and 996 sales were moribund. The saving grace was the Cayenne which was in its first full year of sales. Also, consider that the sales for the 997 were zero in the last fiscal year and now are being counted against last year, the numbers look pretty good.
My friend look behind the numbers.That is why Porsche refused to following SEC requirements to get listed in US markets. They could not distribute the "puffery" that you are now witnessing.
Jun 24, 2005 8:58:53 PM
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Turbo Al
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: 998 in 2007?
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Who ever says that doesn't have a clue about Porsche AG. Expect a "facelift" 997 in MY2008 and the completely new 998 or whatever its called around MY 2011, depending on the market and competion. Porsche in now working on rolling out the rest of the 997 derivatives, and on the sedan.
Carlos,
Does this influence your view re. when the 997TT/TTS-coupe and cab come out? I.e., faster than expected? Sorry to obsess about such a timetable. . . .
Jun 24, 2005 9:55:51 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 998 in 2007?
Quote:
nberry said:
Carlos, I only wish I had your on a witness stand with you using these numbers to validate that Porsche sales are "robust". I would eat you up and spit you out like you were a peanut.
Here is a hint...prior year sales were atrocious. The Boxster and 996 sales were moribund. The saving grace was the Cayenne which was in its first full year of sales. Also, consider that the sales for the 997 were zero in the last fiscal year and now are being counted against last year, the numbers look pretty good.
My friend look behind the numbers.That is why Porsche refused to following SEC requirements to get listed in US markets. They could not distribute the "puffery" that you are now witnessing.
Nick, I take it numbers are not your thing, here is a hint for you now, when it says and I quote "In addition to being the best May result in the U.S., it was the best month in history for Porsche in North America" what does that tell you? I'm not comparing 911 sales to last year since last year was the penultimate year of the 996 and is not a good reference, you need to compare to the first year of the 996, but not only that, Porsche is breaking the record of sales without even rolled out the rest of the 997 variants like the C4S, Turbo, GT's, etc
I was hoping you could read beyond that 2005 vs 2004, and go straight to the reference to sales in relation to all previous years
http://www3.us.porsche.com/english/usa/news/pressreleases/pag/2005-06-24-1.htm
Bring on the witness stand
... 
BTW judging by you car market analist skills I would recomend you not to quite your day job
how are the Cayenne sales according to your predictions? I belive it was the same as for the 997?
Jun 24, 2005 10:00:54 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 998 in 2007?
Al Pette, sorry, not sure I quite got what you meant, the 997TT will come out in the same timescale as it did in the 996, the turbo coming out one year after the C2.
The only difference is that the Cab version of the Turbo may come out earlier in the 997 line since with the 996TTcab they found it to be very popular in sales and its not logical to leave it to the very end again on the timeline in the 997. Since it was such a hit, they will roll it out sooner in the 997 and take advantage of that by having it more years available on the lineup.
The only difference is that the Cab version of the Turbo may come out earlier in the 997 line since with the 996TTcab they found it to be very popular in sales and its not logical to leave it to the very end again on the timeline in the 997. Since it was such a hit, they will roll it out sooner in the 997 and take advantage of that by having it more years available on the lineup.
Re: 998 in 2007?
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
MKW said:
A company so focused on profit and nickel and diming it's buyers , while gradually " evolving " it's iconic 911 , will milk every last cent of it's devevlopment cost on the 997 by tarting it up with an endless variety of submodels just like on the 996. Expect a 5-6 year run.
Development cost???
They do not have a styling dept.(the 997 was designed by the same guy that designed the 993 and he is retired) so no cost there.
The interior involved some upgrade materials which are paid for by the customers. The Steering wheel is shared with the VW. So no cost there.
The engine is a reworked 996 engine with the S getting more hp. So no cost there.
Where is the development cost? With the Cayman, the 4 door sedan and the 911 replacement which may be introduced sooner if 911 sales do not pick up.
Shows how familiar you are with the 997, time to do a little reading Nick before you blurt out such statements and get yourself into such discussions...
And as to the "if sales do not pick up" bit, this will keep you busy, just make sure you take some omeprazol before you read it or you may get a nasty ulcer
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/06/01/110719.html
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0503/01/autos-102746.htm
Carlos, I only wish I had your on a witness stand with you using these numbers to validate that Porsche sales are "robust". I would eat you up and spit you out like you were a peanut.
Here is a hint...prior year sales were atrocious. The Boxster and 996 sales were moribund. The saving grace was the Cayenne which was in its first full year of sales. Also, consider that the sales for the 997 were zero in the last fiscal year and now are being counted against last year, the numbers look pretty good.
My friend look behind the numbers.That is why Porsche refused to following SEC requirements to get listed in US markets. They could not distribute the "puffery" that you are now witnessing.
Nick, you are at it again
Glad to see you at your best! Good idea to use the SEC as a whipping post, you can't lose tossing grenades about them into any argument!
But...... Your claim that Porsche used this years 997 figures over last years 997 figures, is wholely unsubstantiated. In fact, this years 997 sales are
superior over last years 996 sales. Shame on you for
trying that trick!!!!!
Now that you have been admonished for your junk science statistics, might I suggest a trip to Kentucky?
Kentucky lawyers tell you what they are going to tell you, then they tell you what they are telling you, then they tell you what they just told you.
Now Im gonna tell you that Porsche sales have gone up, They are higher than last year at this time, and will go up even more by the end of this year!
Jun 24, 2005 10:34:02 PM
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Turbo Al
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: 998 in 2007?
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Al Pette, sorry, not sure I quite got what you meant, the 997TT will come out in the same timescale as it did in the 996, the turbo coming out one year after the C2.
The only difference is that the Cab version of the Turbo may come out earlier in the 997 line since with the 996TTcab they found it to be very popular in sales and its not logical to leave it to the very end again on the timeline in the 997. Since it was such a hit, they will roll it out sooner in the 997 and take advantage of that by having it more years available on the lineup.
Thanks Carlos,
That makes sense. Yes, what I was driving at was as all of us Turbophiles await the 997TT intro., we wonder what strategy we think PAG will use for bringing out the turbo variants, and I would be pleased if your view was on the mark-that they'll release the TCab and maybe even TSCab with the TCoupes. Certainly I'll add to their sales numbers. For now, I'm still trying to decide whether to buy a 996TSCab, hold it until the 997TCab or 997TSCab comes out (? 2 years or less from now), and trade up for it, OR play around with my 1999 BMW M-Roadster and tune it (I was thinking of sticking a blower in it-there's a supercharger/intercooler mod. available in the USA that BMW endorses and I could combine it with a suspension/exhaust/engine flash program). It could make the car quite fast, BUT it still isn't a 911Turbo. . . .
Jun 24, 2005 10:55:30 PM
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nberry
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: 998 in 2007?
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
nberry said:
Carlos, I only wish I had your on a witness stand with you using these numbers to validate that Porsche sales are "robust". I would eat you up and spit you out like you were a peanut.
Here is a hint...prior year sales were atrocious. The Boxster and 996 sales were moribund. The saving grace was the Cayenne which was in its first full year of sales. Also, consider that the sales for the 997 were zero in the last fiscal year and now are being counted against last year, the numbers look pretty good.
My friend look behind the numbers.That is why Porsche refused to following SEC requirements to get listed in US markets. They could not distribute the "puffery" that you are now witnessing.
Nick, I take it numbers are not your thing, here is a hint for you now, when it says and I quote "In addition to being the best May result in the U.S., it was the best month in history for Porsche in North America" what does that tell you? I'm not comparing 911 sales to last year since last year was the penultimate year of the 996 and is not a good reference, you need to compare to the first year of the 996, but not only that, Porsche is breaking the record of sales without even rolled out the rest of the 997 variants like the C4S, Turbo, GT's, etc
I was hoping you could read beyond that 2005 vs 2004, and go straight to the reference to sales in relation to all previous years
http://www3.us.porsche.com/english/usa/news/pressreleases/pag/2005-06-24-1.htm
Bring on the witness stand
BTW judging by you car market analist skills I would recomend you not to quite your day job
Carlos, Carlos what I am to do with you? It is there best month because they have more models to sell. They want to sell a 100,000 cars by I believe 2008. Of course they are selling more cars.
But if you look at the sport car numbers comparing them to earlier years they are not that great. I do not recall predicting the Cayenne would be a bust. I was against it but bought one of the first ones in SD. However I regret the decision since it is replete with problems. Additionally its value is about 1/2 of what I paid for it.
Jun 24, 2005 10:59:09 PM
- Jeff (in SF)
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: 998 in 2007?
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
nberry said:
Carlos, I only wish I had your on a witness stand with you using these numbers to validate that Porsche sales are "robust". I would eat you up and spit you out like you were a peanut.
Here is a hint...prior year sales were atrocious. The Boxster and 996 sales were moribund. The saving grace was the Cayenne which was in its first full year of sales. Also, consider that the sales for the 997 were zero in the last fiscal year and now are being counted against last year, the numbers look pretty good.
My friend look behind the numbers.That is why Porsche refused to following SEC requirements to get listed in US markets. They could not distribute the "puffery" that you are now witnessing.
Nick, I take it numbers are not your thing, here is a hint for you now, when it says and I quote "In addition to being the best May result in the U.S., it was the best month in history for Porsche in North America" what does that tell you? I'm not comparing 911 sales to last year since last year was the penultimate year of the 996 and is not a good reference, you need to compare to the first year of the 996, but not only that, Porsche is breaking the record of sales without even rolled out the rest of the 997 variants like the C4S, Turbo, GT's, etc
I was hoping you could read beyond that 2005 vs 2004, and go straight to the reference to sales in relation to all previous years
http://www3.us.porsche.com/english/usa/news/pressreleases/pag/2005-06-24-1.htm
Bring on the witness stand
BTW judging by you car market analist skills I would recomend you not to quite your day job
Nick, stop using Jessica Simpson as your personal math tutor. And your argument is again filled with hypocrisy - you criticize Porsche's sales success yet revel in the fact that Ferrari hardly produces any cars. In a courtroom vs. you, my money is on Carlos (or even Jessica)
Jun 25, 2005 12:01:02 AM
- kickdown
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Jun 25, 2005 12:35:39 AM
- Atzporsche
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Re: 998 in 2007?
hows the 998 gonna be a 911 if its mid engined.. wouldnt that make it the new Cayman!
besides that the 997 Turbo will come out late this year or early next year.. the turbo cab will obviously follow in early summer to get those nice sales started nicely.. Porsche is smart
besides that the 997 Turbo will come out late this year or early next year.. the turbo cab will obviously follow in early summer to get those nice sales started nicely.. Porsche is smart
Re: 998 in 2007?
Nick - I think your point might be made if we could see a year-by-year record of 911 unit sales since 1985 and then aggregate "sports car" unit sales (ie. 911s, 924s, 928s, 944s, Boxters, etc.) for the same time period. Your comments suggest a kind of insider's access to the hard facts. All this hearsay and prejudicial fact gathering is starting to outweigh the probative importance of this string.
Jun 25, 2005 3:29:30 AM
- Grant
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Jun 25, 2005 8:41:00 AM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 998 in 2007?
Quote:
nberry said:
Carlos, Carlos what I am to do with you? It is there best month because they have more models to sell. They want to sell a 100,000 cars by I believe 2008. Of course they are selling more cars.
Nick, Nick, Nick
... they do not have more models to sell, infact they have less at this point. During the midlife of the 996 in which its sales were highest, there was aleady the Cayenne, along with the Boxster. Now during the benning of the life of the 997, there is an older Cayenne, the Boxster, and they haven't even rolled out the AWD 997 version nor the Turbo nor their cabs, nor the Cayman.So the fact that their are breaking sales records (more than with the 996/Cayenne/Boxster ever) at this moment is very significant, imagine in a couple of years when most of the 911 version are out, and the Cayman.
Re: 998 in 2007?
I have also heard that the 998 will be available as early as 2008. The 998 will be a totally new generation, (like the 996 to the 993), new roof construction etc. It's said to have the V8s from the Cayenne and maybe the six strecthed to 4 liters (not decided yet).
It's supposed to have the Carrera GT lights.
OK, for the Porsche purists here, please don't flame me (you don't shoot the messenger). I think it's great to see Porsche move forward with new designs, especially with Michael Mauer now on board.
Here's a chop of how the 998 might look like..
It's supposed to have the Carrera GT lights.
OK, for the Porsche purists here, please don't flame me (you don't shoot the messenger). I think it's great to see Porsche move forward with new designs, especially with Michael Mauer now on board.
Here's a chop of how the 998 might look like..
Re: 998 in 2007?
Quote:
shin said:
I have also heard that the 998 will be available as early as 2008. The 998 will be a totally new generation, (like the 996 to the 993), new roof construction etc. It's said to have the V8s from the Cayenne and maybe the six strecthed to 4 liters (not decided yet).
It's supposed to have the Carrera GT lights.
OK, for the Porsche purists here, please don't flame me (you don't shoot the messenger). I think it's great to see Porsche move forward with new designs, especially with Michael Mauer now on board.
Here's a chop of how the 998 might look like..
A product manager for the 911 said there will be 14 variations of the 997 . Why would they go through the trouble and how would they fit all that into 3 model years ( 2005 -2007 )? The Turbo and GT3 aren't even hitting US until 2007+ model year ? Then an all NEW car to dampen THEIR high profit sales ? ( See the current sales of 997S to people who choose it over avail new 996 Turbos becasue they want the latest car and gizmos , not quickest car ) Not gonna happen.
Next new 911 is in 2010 as a model year 2011 , as a Porsche official stated 2 years ago when he said the the 911 was already planned out by marketing year by year to 2010 and the concept phase was beginning on the new one.
That photochop is 3 years old, at least.
Jun 25, 2005 3:51:36 PM
- SoCal Alan
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Re: 998 in 2007?
Quote:
nberry said:
Where is the development cost? With the Cayman, the 4 door sedan and the 911 replacement which may be introduced sooner if 911 sales do not pick up.
If 911 sales do not pick up? I didn't even have a chance to testdrive an S because they were all spoken for. But, I'll stop by Newport Auto Center and see for myself today to see if they have any 997's lying around.
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