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    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    the-missile:

    Limit the speed is for wider range. It is not about limiting the autobahn for the sale of limiting it. The plan for EV cars since day one is to clean polluted cities; noise and smell. The plan is at some point to completely ban ICE cars from cities so you will need a good range to go and be back. 

    Incredible shortsightedness. Range anxiety is not a real thing now if you use a 300 mile + EV and to think humans don’t have the ingenuity to vastly improve range and charging performance over a relatively short time one must have missed all previous tech revolutions. Whatever spec ICE cars have put in place EVs will sooner or later demolish. 

    Legislators will however take advantage of all EV myths anytime they get a chance to create rules regardless of if they know the myth to be true. This is always guaranteed. 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Not that I'm for it, but restricting vehicle speed to maximum posted speeds is safer, lowers operating cost of the vehicle including insurance and minimize collisions. There is no getting away from the fact that slower speed vehicles are safer and good for society.surprise


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    nberry:

    Not that I'm for it, but restricting vehicle speed to maximum posted speeds is safer, lowers operating cost of the vehicle including insurance and minimize collisions. There is no getting away from the fact that slower speed vehicles are safer and good for society.surprise


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

     

    Wrote the man, who posted here a few days ago he received a $1,500 fine for speeding following the service of his track-bias 991.2 911 GT3 RS. 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    I’m still curious what the charges were. For a fine like that in KS I would have to go 200 in a school zone. 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Leawood911:
    the-missile:

    Limit the speed is for wider range. It is not about limiting the autobahn for the sale of limiting it. The plan for EV cars since day one is to clean polluted cities; noise and smell. The plan is at some point to completely ban ICE cars from cities so you will need a good range to go and be back. 

    Incredible shortsightedness. Range anxiety is not a real thing now if you use a 300 mile + EV and to think humans don’t have the ingenuity to vastly improve range and charging performance over a relatively short time one must have missed all previous tech revolutions. Whatever spec ICE cars have put in place EVs will sooner or later demolish. 

    Legislators will however take advantage of all EV myths anytime they get a chance to create rules regardless of if they know the myth to be true. This is always guaranteed. 

    Not really Leawood. See the issue from European cars available currently on the market and especially the small and compact ones like Zoe and whatnot. These cars have small range and small power. Limiting them as it is already the case improve the range. Tesla went into EV to make them fun. Renault and Nissan make them convenient for the legislation to come. 


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    I totally get the current state. And I agree from that perspective.  My point is that humans tend to improve tech sometimes way beyond what is needed so legislation based on the current state is like 20 mph speed limits right after horses were replaced by cars.  Do you recall how slow computers were 20 years ago?  There is a lot of innovation on the table right now - all of it lending itself to much higher speed limits. IMHO. 
    The rest is up to politics and voters thinking clearly. 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Leawood911:

    I’m still curious what the charges were. For a fine like that in KS I would have to go 200 in a school zone. 

    75 mph in a 45 mph speed zone. It’s an envy fine. Smiley 


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    nberry:

    Not that I'm for it, but restricting vehicle speed to maximum posted speeds is safer, lowers operating cost of the vehicle including insurance and minimize collisions. There is no getting away from the fact that slower speed vehicles are safer and good for society.surprise

    Not really true, I'm afraid.  

    Here is an interesting comparison from Europe, average accidents death toll rates on highways compared to speed limit in each particular country.

    30-04-_2021_15-44-10.jpg

     

     

    I mean check out Norway: Same death toll as Germany and they have a 90 kph speed limit on the highway, which is probably the lowest speed limit worldwide. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    RC:

     

    I mean check out Norway: Same death toll as Germany and they have a 90 kph speed limit on the highway, which is probably the lowest speed limit worldwide. Smiley

    half of the year with challenging weather may explain a thing or two? Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Thiis a case of cherry picking to support your view. There is a reason why all countries post speed limits.Smiley


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    nberry:

    Thiis a case of cherry picking to support your view. There is a reason why all countries post speed limits.Smiley

    To write envy tickets? 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Leawood911:
    nberry:

    Thiis a case of cherry picking to support your view. There is a reason why all countries post speed limits.Smiley

    To write envy tickets? 

    SmileySmileySmileySmiley


    --

    Mike

    918 Spyder + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Leawood911:
    nberry:

    Thiis a case of cherry picking to support your view. There is a reason why all countries post speed limits.Smiley

    To write envy tickets? 

    Certainly one of the reasons.Smiley


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    RC:

    I mean check out Norway: Same death toll as Germany and they have a 90 kph speed limit on the highway, which is probably the lowest speed limit worldwide. Smiley

    What conclusion are you trying to make? 

    Norway has got one highway to mention, the E39. It is over 1100 km long and for most part a two-lane undivided road with oncoming traffic stretched out on a highly demanding landscape. A cross-country road in other words and hence the 90km/h limit. This road has very little in common with a German multi-lane divided highway. 

    You think that is a valid comparison? 


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Interesting article on the EVO website:  https://www.evo.co.uk/news/22326/mandatory-speed-limiters-to-be-fitted-to-all-new-uk-cars-after-2022 

    Mandatory speed limiters to be fitted to all new UK cars after 2022

    The European Transport Safety Council will impose mandatory speed limiters and data loggers on all new cars, and manufacturers are already making moves

    Sam Jenkins

    28 Apr 2021

    80mph motorway speed limit

    Sitting among a range of new safety features due for all new cars, the mandatory speed limiters come as part of a proposal from the European Transport Safety Council, approved in 2019 by a group of key MEPs. Though the UK is no longer in the EU, it has been confirmed that the UK will still utilise the technology.

    Following the introduction of a 112mph speed cap on all new Volvos last year, Renault has now announced it will follow suit. From 2022, the brand will equip all new Dacia and Renault models with an ‘automatic speed limit adjuster’ and 112mph cap as standard. Fortunately, this likely won’t expand to performance models for the time being, with Renault’s more potent future offerings set to fall under the Alpine brand.

    > Volvo commences fitment of 112mph speed limiter on all models

    How speed limiters work

    Dubbed Intelligent Speed Assistance (ISA), the limiters will use GPS data and/or traffic sign recognition cameras to determine the speed limit of the road a vehicle is travelling on. Engine power will then be limited to match this, preventing the car from exceeding the speed limit. It will be possible to override the system by pushing hard on the throttle, however the system will be engaged every time a car is started.

    If you think you can simply keep pressing a little harder on the throttle to break through the system, think again. ETSC also states that: ‘If the driver continues to drive above the speed limit for several seconds, the system should sound a warning for a few seconds and display a visual warning until the vehicle is operating at or below the speed limit again.’

    A feature already seen on all new Volvos and models such as the Ford Focus, the speed limiters will come alongside data loggers, autonomous emergency braking systems, lane keep assist, driver fatigue detection systems and other safety measures. It’s not all quite as bad as you may think, as the European Transport and Safety Council admits the system will come with a full on/off switch initially. This is only “to aid public acceptance at introduction” however, and so it’s likely that it intends to push for even stricter rules in the future, meaning a permanent system may come into force.

    The systems will be required on all new models given ‘type’ approval from May 2022, with all models on the market before that date required to adopt the tech by May 2024. With the recent confirmation of the UK’s adoption of the technology came interesting news from the Department for Transport, stating that it expects limiters "to give drivers feedback when the speed limit is exceeded rather than limiting the speed" with a reduction in engine power as previously understood.

    The push for the new safety tech is down to the supposed reduction it will bring in traffic collisions and lives lost; ETSC says the limiters will reduce collisions by 30 per cent and save 25,000 lives within 15 years of being introduced.

     

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    ISA. Intelligent Speed Assistance.  Brilliant. Can we be less direct in calling humans stupid as shit?  
    I have no words for this - VOTE


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Leawood911:

    ISA. Intelligent Speed Assistance.  Brilliant. Can we be less direct in calling humans stupid as shit?  
    I have no words for this - VOTE

    All well and good to say vote, but in EU countries you don't directly vote for any Brussels beaurocrats as far as I understand....


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    4trac:
    Leawood911:

    ISA. Intelligent Speed Assistance.  Brilliant. Can we be less direct in calling humans stupid as shit?  
    I have no words for this - VOTE

    All well and good to say vote, but in EU countries you don't directly vote for any Brussels beaurocrats as far as I understand....

    The citizens of the countries that compose the EU relinquished their sovereignty at the alter of socialism through bureaucrat. Other than going through the equivalent of a Brexit, they are stuck with that hydra. 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Unfuckinbelievable.mail

    But its OK for Conservatives to tell woman she must carry a child to term, insist on unlimited access to guns which kill as many if not more people a year in the US, refuse to wear mask doing a deadly pandemic, refuse vaccination against the virus thereby exposing others and so on. The hypocrisy of people.broken heart


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    You’re definitely a tormented soul.  Someplace, somewhere someone is praying for you and your likeminded kindred spirits.  
     

    I, for one, am not. 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    nberry:

    Unfuckinbelievable.mail

    But its OK for Conservatives to tell woman she must carry a child to term, insist on unlimited access to guns which kill as many if not more people a year in the US, refuse to wear mask doing a deadly pandemic, refuse vaccination against the virus thereby exposing others and so on. The hypocrisy of people.broken heart

    Oh boy. Politics. Two sides to every coin. It’s okay to insist people act responsibly and not murder children.  Some realize that people kill people and guns are self defense tools. They also represent freedom.  No sense in mask debating is there at this point?  Masks outdoors when all alone?  
    Last I heard we are free to decide what goes into our body. If not we really should not be killing babies using the same logic. Please explain why people who have had covid and hardly noticed should get vaccinated?  And if they work so well why do they still then wear masks outdoors?  
    For a liberal to call hypocrisy is making my head spin. With or without the f- bomb.  
    but no worries - peace and love to all. Here is a little entertainment. Curious if it is blocked in Europe https://youtu.be/b56Si3DY6cQ
    cheers Nick. 


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    CGX car nut:
    4trac:
    Leawood911:

    ISA. Intelligent Speed Assistance.  Brilliant. Can we be less direct in calling humans stupid as shit?  
    I have no words for this - VOTE

    All well and good to say vote, but in EU countries you don't directly vote for any Brussels beaurocrats as far as I understand....

    The citizens of the countries that compose the EU relinquished their sovereignty at the alter of socialism through bureaucrat. Other than going through the equivalent of a Brexit, they are stuck with that hydra. 

    "Non-democratically elected bureaucrats" is always one of the dumbest arguments against the EU.

    The bureaucrats are sent to Brussels by the respective state governments (which are democratically elected). Decisions there are made in close consultation with the state governments. Whoever, as a civil servant in Brussels, does not follow the guidelines from home, ends his career in record time. 

    With the argument "Non-democratically elected bureaucrats" you can also discredit any minister worldwide. They, too, are not elected but appointed by the government. 

    In Germany, we don't even elect the chancellor, (s)he is elected by the parliament

    And of course I don't like all democratic decisions, that's typical for a democracy. Brussels is anything but flawless. There are clearly more intelligent arguments against decisions from Brussels


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    nberry:

    Not that I'm for it, but restricting vehicle speed to maximum posted speeds is safer, lowers operating cost of the vehicle including insurance and minimize collisions. There is no getting away from the fact that slower speed vehicles are safer and good for society.surprise


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

    Not really for it either, but while their has been a construction project on the interstate; I have been driving to work on a road known as the mid town expressway. The driving behaviors that are common on this stretch of road could easily sway one's opinion in favor of such a plan. My broader experience tells me this is not at all necessary, but I wouldn't want to call for a vote on it. Would rather just leave it be in the current state.

     

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Leawood911:
    nberry:

    Thiis a case of cherry picking to support your view. There is a reason why all countries post speed limits.Smiley

    To write envy tickets? 

    Smiley Smiley

    Proper driver education is the secret here. We have one of the toughest driver ed systems worldwide.

    Also proper road maintenance and planning. Many parts of the German Autobahn are actually speed limited, many foreigners don't know this. Some parts have even electronically controlled variable speed limits, according to traffic density and weather conditions.

    It costs around 2000 EUR on average here in Bavaria to take driving lessons and the driver's license exam. 

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    bluelines:
    RC:

    I mean check out Norway: Same death toll as Germany and they have a 90 kph speed limit on the highway, which is probably the lowest speed limit worldwide. Smiley

    What conclusion are you trying to make? 

    Norway has got one highway to mention, the E39. It is over 1100 km long and for most part a two-lane undivided road with oncoming traffic stretched out on a highly demanding landscape. A cross-country road in other words and hence the 90km/h limit. This road has very little in common with a German multi-lane divided highway. 

    You think that is a valid comparison? 

    Yes. Many parts of the German Autobahn have a speed limit (usually between 100 and 120 kph) and there are actually many country roads (called "Schnellstraßen" here in Germany which have a 120 kph speed limit and look much worse than the Norway highway).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Yes, the death toll on German “Bundesstrassen” is higher than on German highways. Which is what you see with Norway. An undivided road with bidirectional traffic is less safe than a divided road with directional traffic. That is why the comparison Norwegian highway and German highway makes little sense.

    Compare Germany to Western European countries with similar highways such as Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, France and things looks different.

    Now consider that every third kilometer on the German highway is restricted and that the death toll has decreased in the past few years as more stretches of highway get restricted. Because, hold your breath, restricted speed highways are safer than unrestricted.


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    bluelines:

    Yes, the death toll on German “Bundesstrassen” is higher than on German highways. Which is what you see with Norway. An undivided road with bidirectional traffic is less safe than a divided road with directional traffic. That is why the comparison Norwegian highway and German highway makes little sense.

    Compare Germany to Western European countries with similar highways such as Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, France and things looks different.

    Now consider that every third kilometer on the German highway is restricted and that the death toll has decreased in the past few years as more stretches of highway get restricted. Because, hold your breath, restricted speed highways are safer than unrestricted.

    It amazes me that people debate this FACT.Smiley


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Depends on which pair of goggles one see things though.

    Does anyone have the numbers for accidents on restricted sections vs unrestricted sections of the Autobahn? If the restricted sections are safer, then the unrestricted sections would have multiple times the accidents of the restricted part. The math is really that simple. But if Germany doesn't published the numbers separating the two sections, there is only one reason, it is to hide the numbers for one of the sections.

    All over the world, city streets are much more restricted in speed than highways, but the accident rate for city is far higher than highways. Basically this means speed doesn't kill, it's the lack of attention that kills. 

     

     

     

     


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    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Whoopsy:

    Does anyone have the numbers for accidents on restricted sections vs unrestricted sections of the Autobahn? If the restricted sections are safer, then the unrestricted sections would have multiple times the accidents of the restricted part. The math is really that simple. But if Germany doesn't published the numbers separating the two sections, there is only one reason, it is to hide the numbers for one of the sections.

    Oh my, it is a CONSPIRACY by the government Smiley

    Here is a good thought experiment for you. If everyone drove 0km//h there would be no deaths. If everyone drove 1000km/h then no one would survive. What do you think the deaths as function of the speed looks like? If that is not a strictly increasing function then please entertain me with your argument.

    Germany does separate their statistics between restricted and unrestricted. In 2018 then 71% of the highway deaths were on unrestricted sections. There are also several studies running over multiple years comparing the same section unrestricted versus 130/100km/h restricted and the number of accidents are 50% after the change.


    --

     

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White

     


    Re: First Volvo, now Renault...180 kph speed limiter

    Number of accidents sounds convincing, but the number of accidents per distance (miles or km) driven is the only sensible metric.

     


    --

    Mike

    918 Spyder + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


     
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