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    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    While one agrees with the need to normalize the data, based on the installed base by manufacturer; however, it is doubtful Tesla’s installed base is greater than the sum of all the other manufacturers listed on the chart.  This still implies that Tesla is an outlier compared with the rest of the industry.  

    Tesla has been doing this stuff for many years with a huge installed base. The other manufacturers just started volume delivery of their cars with ADAS.

    Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Tesla had over half of all ADAS cars now on the road.


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    Mike

    918 Spyder + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Other car makers have no need to fear. 

    EV market is growing, but still not meaningful yet as consumers are still not buying EVs en masse. In the best case market, it only accounts for ~17-20% of all new car sales. 

    Consumers are still buying everything that's not hybrid or EVs, there is no reason for other car companies to stop making them. Governments are sort of forcing the adoption of EVs but if citizens aren't buying in, it's pointless. 

    But these car makers are ramping up their EV offerings, offering more choices for consumers, which is a good thing. Most people aren't into all the fluff offered by Tesla, FSD, Autopilot fart mode etc means nothing to most buyers. A lot of buyers are looking for styling, fit and finish, capacity, price point, etc. VW has the size and reach to offer different EVs at different price points with different styling and function, something Tesla is unable to do. Ford, Rivian are already shipping EV pickups, Cybertruck is still nowhere to be found. There are plenty of market segments Tesla simply cannot reach while other car makers are actively pursuing. 

    The Koreans are having break thought with content and pricing, the Ioniq 5/EV6 platform is best on the market right now, nothing matches them for car offered at that price point. When is the lat time you hear about having to pay ADM in order to buy a Hyundai?

    Instead of reality, you are firmly attached to Elon's words. Believing every single word he said as if it's the bible. WE have no doubt you are deeply in love with your Model 3, and extremely satisfied with your purchase. We are very happy for you. But your one case does not represent the whole market, or even the rest of car buying public, or even other Tesla owners, plenty of which are fed up and discarded theirs for competitors' offerings. Are you even in proper reality or just Elon's version of reality? Sort of like Ameber Heard's reality vs the rest of the world's reality in the recent trial.

     


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    i just enjoy my car. I don’t listen to anything Elon says or does. It is just a car of mine. I do listen to the stuff others say about Tesla and about my car which is just so so so far off from reality. 
    I don’t use or have FSD. I enjoy the awesome included autopilot. I would not buy a car without it. I enjoy the easy and cheap charging at home. I would not buy a car without charging at home. I enjoy the absolute reliability and would not buy another car less reliable (ice). I enjoy the incredible value in terms of resale and frequent updates to add more features and functionality. I would not buy a car without over the air updates.  I enjoy all the security features and ability to track the car and speed when others are out in it. I would not buy a car which does not do this. I enjoy the crazy speed and handling which gets me around town quicker than anything else I have owned by a lot.  I enjoy the safety net the car provides even when not using autopilot.  No other car out there offers such comprehensive safety. 
    Lastly I enjoy the fantastic audio/ video entertainment system. Dozens of source options from high end audio to Netflix and web browser to cover anything missing. I would not buy a car without such great audio and content choices. 
    None of this is fluff ( like shiny buttons and stitched interiors) and none of the other automakers have figured out a way to match any of this. So if they are not worried they are crazy.  Given how fast they are scrambling to catch up I think maybe you are mistaken about their concerns. I do agree that Korea is doing exceptionally well and have move into high gear. 
     

    Back to basics is there any good reason to not offer one pedal driving in an EV. Do we need one control to stop and one to go?  You don’t have a steering wheel to turn left and a different one to turn right. 
     


    Re: Tesla

    W8MM:
    CGX car nut:

    While one agrees with the need to normalize the data, based on the installed base by manufacturer; however, it is doubtful Tesla’s installed base is greater than the sum of all the other manufacturers listed on the chart.  This still implies that Tesla is an outlier compared with the rest of the industry.  

    Tesla has been doing this stuff for many years with a huge installed base. The other manufacturers just started volume delivery of their cars with ADAS.

    Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Tesla had over half of all ADAS cars now on the road.

    I would be curious how often the systems in the other cars are activated. Tesla actually collects such data. I saw a video of the Ford system in the Mustang going down the highway. When a bend came up ahead the system required the driver to take over. Plus it was geo fenced for only some stretches of highway. I would not activate such a system often. It comes down to how many miles of the system being active not number of accidents regardless of use.   Divide the number of incidents by the number of miles the system was used.  
    The real problem with this type of FUD is that people are being killed each and every day and it is borderline criminal to steer people away from safer choices and into more dangerous ones all in the name of defeating a legit competitor who is offering consumers a better choice.  Lying is one thing but this is life and death 

    btw Tesla have been watching drivers eyes for more than a year now. In addition to requiring a hand on the wheel at all times.  


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    Other car makers have no need to fear. 

    EV market is growing, but still not meaningful yet as consumers are still not buying EVs en masse. In the best case market, it only accounts for ~17-20% of all new car sales. 

    Consumers are still buying everything that's not hybrid or EVs, there is no reason for other car companies to stop making them. Governments are sort of forcing the adoption of EVs but if citizens aren't buying in, it's pointless. 

    But these car makers are ramping up their EV offerings, offering more choices for consumers, which is a good thing. Most people aren't into all the fluff offered by Tesla, FSD, Autopilot fart mode etc means nothing to most buyers. A lot of buyers are looking for styling, fit and finish, capacity, price point, etc. VW has the size and reach to offer different EVs at different price points with different styling and function, something Tesla is unable to do. Ford, Rivian are already shipping EV pickups, Cybertruck is still nowhere to be found. There are plenty of market segments Tesla simply cannot reach while other car makers are actively pursuing. 

    The Koreans are having break thought with content and pricing, the Ioniq 5/EV6 platform is best on the market right now, nothing matches them for car offered at that price point. When is the lat time you hear about having to pay ADM in order to buy a Hyundai?

    Instead of reality, you are firmly attached to Elon's words. Believing every single word he said as if it's the bible. WE have no doubt you are deeply in love with your Model 3, and extremely satisfied with your purchase. We are very happy for you. But your one case does not represent the whole market, or even the rest of car buying public, or even other Tesla owners, plenty of which are fed up and discarded theirs for competitors' offerings. Are you even in proper reality or just Elon's version of reality? Sort of like Ameber Heard's reality vs the rest of the world's reality in the recent trial.

     


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    i just enjoy my car. I don’t listen to anything Elon says or does. It is just a car of mine. I do listen to the stuff others say about Tesla and about my car which is just so so so far off from reality. 
    I don’t use or have FSD. I enjoy the awesome included autopilot. I would not buy a car without it. I enjoy the easy and cheap charging at home. I would not buy a car without charging at home. I enjoy the absolute reliability and would not buy another car less reliable (ice). I enjoy the incredible value in terms of resale and frequent updates to add more features and functionality. I would not buy a car without over the air updates.  I enjoy all the security features and ability to track the car and speed when others are out in it. I would not buy a car which does not do this. I enjoy the crazy speed and handling which gets me around town quicker than anything else I have owned by a lot.  I enjoy the safety net the car provides even when not using autopilot.  No other car out there offers such comprehensive safety. 
    Lastly I enjoy the fantastic audio/ video entertainment system. Dozens of source options from high end audio to Netflix and web browser to cover anything missing. I would not buy a car without such great audio and content choices. 
    None of this is fluff ( like shiny buttons and stitched interiors) and none of the other automakers have figured out a way to match any of this. So if they are not worried they are crazy.  Given how fast they are scrambling to catch up I think maybe you are mistaken about their concerns. I do agree that Korea is doing exceptionally well and have move into high gear. 
     

    Back to basics is there any good reason to not offer one pedal driving in an EV. Do we need one control to stop and one to go?  You don’t have a steering wheel to turn left and a different one to turn right. 
     

     

    Don't give Elon any more ideas, he might just do it. Adding more fluff to his cars.Smiley

    Or he will go with 2 throttle sticks, like tanks Smiley


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    Re: Tesla

    Elon Musk sued for $258 billion over dogecoin ‘pyramid scheme’

    (16 June 2022)

    Elon Musk is being sued in New York federal court for promoting dogecoin, which one plaintiff alleges is a "pyramid scheme." WireImage

    Elon Musk was hit with a $258 billion lawsuit that alleges the tech mogul and his high-profile companies “are engaged in a crypto pyramid scheme by way of dogecoin cryptocurrency.” 

    In federal court papers filed in Lower Manhattan, the plaintiff, Keith Johnson, names Musk as well as his electric car company, Tesla, and the space tourism firm SpaceX.

    Johnson, a US citizen, wants $86 billion in damages, plus tripled damages of $172 billion for losses incurred from trading dogecoin since 2019. He is seeking to represent a class of people who have lost money investing in dogecoin.

    The lawsuit also demands that Musk, Tesla and SpaceX cease promoting dogecoin.

    On Thursday, one dogecoin was worth just north of 6 cents — well off its all-time high of 74 cents in May 2021.

    “Dogecoin is not a currency, stock, or security. It’s not backed by gold, other precious metal, or anything at all. You can’t eat it, grow it, or wear it,” according to the court filing.

    The lawsuit continues: “It doesn’t pay interest or dividend. It has no unique utility compared to other cryptocurrencies…It’s not secured by a government or private entity.”

    “It’s simply a fraud whereby ‘greater fools’ are deceived into buying the coin at a higher price.”

    Musk, the world’s richest person whose net worth was valued by Forbes at $202.9 billion, has not responded to the lawsuit.

    Earlier this year, Musk revealed that Tesla had begun accepting dogecoin for transactions in its online store. SpaceX is expected to follow suit in the near future.

    Musk’s frequent promotion of the meme cryptocurrency has sent its value surging, though the digital coin has plummeted in recent weeks along with other cryptocurrencies.

    The announcement sent the value of dogecoin surging.

    Tesla also spent $1.5 billion on bitcoin in February 2021 – a move the electric car marker said would provide “more flexibility to further diversify and maximize returns on our cash.” 

    At the time of the disclosure, the price of bitcoin was hovering in the $30,000 to $40,000 range.

    Musk this week broke his silence on the recent collapse in digital asset prices — and responded to a meme revealing the next sector of the economy he expects to plunge.

    Musk reacted to the steep selloff in bitcoin, the largest cryptocurrency by market cap, which briefly plunged below $21,000 — its lowest level since December 2020.

    “Cryptonight,” Musk tweeted Tuesday night.

    Musk also replied to a meme posted by dogecoin co-creator Billy Markus.

    The cartoon image showed the grim reaper approaching a door labeled “real estate” after previously making grisly stops in rooms labeled “stocks” and “cryptocurrency.”

    “True,” Musk said in response to the post.

    The billionaire has repeatedly touted investments in cryptocurrencies in recent years. In March, he declared that he “won’t sell” his holdings in bitcoin, Ethereum and Dogecoin despite rising inflation and economic uncertainty that has led many investors to sell riskier asserts. 

    The world’s richest man has never disclosed how much of his wealth is tied to crypto.

    Dogecoin was trading 4.79% higher on Thursday afternoon while other well-known cryptocurrencies like bitcoin were trading lower.

    Bitcoin fell 1.07% to $21,062.88. Ethereum rose 0.53% to $1,113.69, according to Coinbase data.

    Link: https://nypost.com/2022/06/16/elon-musk-sued-for-258-billion-over-dogecoin-pyramid-scheme/

    Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    Not certain which makes one look stupider - investing and losing a lot of money in crypto or doing the same, not taking responsibility for the stupid investment and suing ‘the worlds richest man’ for crypto investment advice he provided   
     Thanks for posting another in a series of Evil Genius hit pieces.  Odds of success winning this suit is what folks?  Point of the story ?  Hmmm  

     


    Re: Tesla

    TesIa share price down -47% for 2022YTD...   C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    B634FEF8-3A36-4562-B1CA-514BF53196F3.jpeg

    ...investor perception may be shifting? Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    W8MM:
    CGX car nut:

    While one agrees with the need to normalize the data, based on the installed base by manufacturer; however, it is doubtful Tesla’s installed base is greater than the sum of all the other manufacturers listed on the chart.  This still implies that Tesla is an outlier compared with the rest of the industry.  

    Tesla has been doing this stuff for many years with a huge installed base. The other manufacturers just started volume delivery of their cars with ADAS.

    Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Tesla had over half of all ADAS cars now on the road.

    Without becoming overly pedantic, but the NHTSA report covered only SAE Level 2 Advanced Driver Assistance Systems which cover speed and steering control with driver oversight.  Therefore, many of the manufacturers have had systems in this report for many years.  Adaptive cruise control and lane assist systems were installed in many models for over a decade.  This is what is reported in this document.  There is also another report dedicated to SAE Level 3 systems where Tesla recorded only one incident in the reporting period.  The NHTSA further discusses why, based on limited telematics data, that the data is not normalized based on installed base or miles driven under Level 2 oversight.   


    Re: Tesla


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:
    W8MM:
    CGX car nut:

    While one agrees with the need to normalize the data, based on the installed base by manufacturer; however, it is doubtful Tesla’s installed base is greater than the sum of all the other manufacturers listed on the chart.  This still implies that Tesla is an outlier compared with the rest of the industry.  

    Tesla has been doing this stuff for many years with a huge installed base. The other manufacturers just started volume delivery of their cars with ADAS.

    Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Tesla had over half of all ADAS cars now on the road.

    Without becoming overly pedantic, but the NHTSA report covered only SAE Level 2 Advanced Driver Assistance Systems which cover speed and steering control with driver oversight.  Therefore, many of the manufacturers have had systems in this report for many years.  Adaptive cruise control and lane assist systems were installed in many models for over a decade.  This is what is reported in this document.  There is also another report dedicated to SAE Level 3 systems where Tesla recorded only one incident in the reporting period.  The NHTSA further discusses why, based on limited telematics data, that the data is not normalized based on installed base or miles driven under Level 2 oversight.   

    Every ‘lane’ assist capable car I have driven other than the Tesla are a joke. They bounce off the lines and can’t do the job for more than a minute. I doubt these are used for hours on end like the Tesla autopilot.  If you want to know the real story then how about determining how many miles those systems are even in use. None of it makes any sense at all unless you state accidents per miles of system use. Agreed?  


    Re: Tesla

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    TesIa share price down -47% for 2022YTD...   C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    B634FEF8-3A36-4562-B1CA-514BF53196F3.jpeg

    ...investor perception may be shifting? Smiley

    Ford was up to 26 a few months ago now it’s 11. Have you seen the rest of the market or other car companies?  If given a choice of Ford or Tesla today which would you buy?  


    Re: Tesla

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    If you believe this AND that self driving will never work - then SHORT tesla.  
    It just takes some balls and all this great knowledge provided by competitors.  Lol. 


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Without becoming overly pedantic, but the NHTSA report covered only SAE Level 2 Advanced Driver Assistance Systems which cover speed and steering control with driver oversight.  Therefore, many of the manufacturers have had systems in this report for many years.  Adaptive cruise control and lane assist systems were installed in many models for over a decade.  This is what is reported in this document.  There is also another report dedicated to SAE Level 3 systems where Tesla recorded only one incident in the reporting period.  The NHTSA further discusses why, based on limited telematics data, that the data is not normalized based on installed base or miles driven under Level 2 oversight.   

    Therefore, not possible to strictly compare apples to apples from the quoted statistics.

    Thanks for digging that up Smiley


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    Mike

     

    918 Spyder + 992 GT3 Touring + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Tesla

    https://www.thestreet.com/technology/elon-musk-is-furious?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

    Funny Elon now is throwing a fit about EV makers getting government credits. Didn't hear him complaint when he first started up and benefited from it. In fact, he have had billions of government money in subsidies over the years.

    He claimed his Teslas are at a disadvantage compared to the competition as his cars don't qualify for the tax credits anymore so it should be gone to 'level' the playing field. Hmm, Porsche never had any trouble selling much higher priced Taycans. GM also wasn't complaining either when they have also run out of tax credits for their products. 

    Could it be his cars aren't competitive anymore only because of the product? And not the tax credit thing? They are losing market share because there are more competitors in the segment and offering better products?


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    Re: Tesla

    I read the article. I’m not certain where they got to angry or furious.  I don’t see him getting angry - this pure conjecture to make him look bad.   They point out that he thinks credits for cars not made in the US is not good for promoting the US EV industry. He points out how much domestic content is in the Model3. He points out correctly that the tax credit helps his competition today - not certain he was angry or furious about it. What is the point of making him appear that way?  Hmmm   We all know the government is after him for not having a Union shop, we know the media is after him because he does not advertise and they need to please their revenue generating advertisers.  Lastly he has an overwhelmingly satisfied customer base - which drives those without competitor products to care less and less about value to the consumers and more about some type of political win against Tesla  

    One point I could not find, hilariously, is the crazy notion that Tesla is not competitive in the EV market.  This is where your dreams meet cold hard reality again.  So you posted this FUD just to somehow come to your conclusion out of the blue - not surprising.  This thread is aging so well.  I’m expecting it to be ‘lost’ a second time so that some of these statements can disappear in shame.

     


    Re: Tesla


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

     They point out that he thinks credits for cars not made in the US is not good for promoting the US EV industry. He points out how much domestic content is in the Model3. He points out correctly that the tax credit helps his competition today

    EV credits are not to subsidize US EV industry, i.e. Tesla, but rather for American buyers, to promote a shift to EV vehicles in general to decrease emissions, therefore it doesn't matter where the vehicles are made as long as they are EV.

    They have helped Tesla over the US ICE auto industry for years altering free market competition in favor of Tesla, ironic that he now complains when they are helping other EV manufactures too now, that was Nick's point. And here I thought the reason for Tesla is to speed the move to sustainable transport, I guess Musk was referring only to the sustainable transport that lines his pockets.


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:
    W8MM:
    CGX car nut:

    While one agrees with the need to normalize the data, based on the installed base by manufacturer; however, it is doubtful Tesla’s installed base is greater than the sum of all the other manufacturers listed on the chart.  This still implies that Tesla is an outlier compared with the rest of the industry.  

    Tesla has been doing this stuff for many years with a huge installed base. The other manufacturers just started volume delivery of their cars with ADAS.

    Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Tesla had over half of all ADAS cars now on the road.

    Without becoming overly pedantic, but the NHTSA report covered only SAE Level 2 Advanced Driver Assistance Systems which cover speed and steering control with driver oversight.  Therefore, many of the manufacturers have had systems in this report for many years.  Adaptive cruise control and lane assist systems were installed in many models for over a decade.  This is what is reported in this document.  There is also another report dedicated to SAE Level 3 systems where Tesla recorded only one incident in the reporting period.  The NHTSA further discusses why, based on limited telematics data, that the data is not normalized based on installed base or miles driven under Level 2 oversight.   

    Every ‘lane’ assist capable car I have driven other than the Tesla are a joke. They bounce off the lines and can’t do the job for more than a minute. I doubt these are used for hours on end like the Tesla autopilot.  If you want to know the real story then how about determining how many miles those systems are even in use. None of it makes any sense at all unless you state accidents per miles of system use. Agreed?  

    Hilarious!  You proved NHTSA’s argument for oversight on SAE Level 2 advanced driver assistance system especially with respect to Tesla. The driver, as you note with your non-Tesla examples, keeps the driver as an integral component of the control loop, the Tesla system does not by have some drivers become overconfident on the functions of the system.  


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    I read the article. I’m not certain where they got to angry or furious.  I don’t see him getting angry - this pure conjecture to make him look bad.   They point out that he thinks credits for cars not made in the US is not good for promoting the US EV industry. He points out how much domestic content is in the Model3. He points out correctly that the tax credit helps his competition today - not certain he was angry or furious about it. What is the point of making him appear that way?  Hmmm   We all know the government is after him for not having a Union shop, we know the media is after him because he does not advertise and they need to please their revenue generating advertisers.  Lastly he has an overwhelmingly satisfied customer base - which drives those without competitor products to care less and less about value to the consumers and more about some type of political win against Tesla  

    One point I could not find, hilariously, is the crazy notion that Tesla is not competitive in the EV market.  This is where your dreams meet cold hard reality again.  So you posted this FUD just to somehow come to your conclusion out of the blue - not surprising.  This thread is aging so well.  I’m expecting it to be ‘lost’ a second time so that some of these statements can disappear in shame.

     

     

    Weird that reality doesn't equal to your point of view.

    If Tesla really is that much better than the competition, everyone would still let buying Tesla instead of the competition. But what's happening instead is that Tesla's market share is dropping and dropping and there is no end in sight. 🤷🏻‍♂️

    Tesla has completely lost the low end of the market, those so called 35k Teslas are gone, replaced by GM's, Hyundais, KIAs, Nissans. The top end of the market is covered by the Porsches, Mercedes, Audis, and everyone is also invading the middle part where Tesla is still the strongest from the top down and bottom up. GM, Ford and Rivian had also taken up position sideways with EV pickups. Where can Tesla go and grow now? Their Roadster is no where near nor is the Semi. 


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    Re: Tesla

    https://people.com/human-interest/elon-musk-child-vivian-files-petition-to-change-name-and-gender/

    In other news, Elon's 18 yr old son turned 18 yr old daughter has just petitioned to have full female names and a different last name to not be associated with Elon anymore.


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    Re: Tesla

    However, on this I do have sympathy for Musk on this unfortunate situation.  


    Re: Tesla

    The entire notion of being the 18 year old son of a billionaire and, unlike Dad, being in possession of an 18 year old pecker; but wanting to be no longer associated with the family or the male gender: well I am stymied on that one. Thought that I could relate to a wide range of people, but just cannot get there.

    Time for the chorus to chime in "well I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay"  (see Monty Python)


    Re: Tesla

    And on more other news, his ex-gf Amber Heard might be 'blackmailing' all her ex's to pay her before she writes a tell all book to pay Johnny. Elon definitely is on that list.

    Wonder what kind of kinks Elon has

     


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    Re: Tesla

    TesIa have a useful new recruit...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    ...with some useful experience... Smiley

    “Brazil's Odebrecht corruption scandal explained”

    (17 April 2019)

    Odebrecht has already agreed to pay $2.6bn in fines

    For years, Latin America's construction giant, Odebrecht, built some of the region's most crucial infrastructure projects. 

    But then it became well-known for another superlative: its involvement in one of the biggest corruption cases in history.

    In 2016, the Brazilian-based group signed what has been described as the world's largest leniency deal with US and Swiss authorities, in which it confessed to corruption and paid $2.6bn (£2.1bn) in fines.

    Seventy-seven company executives agreed to plea bargains with Brazilian authorities, and their statements to investigators were made public.

    Their revelations had strong political and economic repercussions throughout Latin America.

    What is Odebrecht and why is it important?

    It's not a brand many outside Latin America will recognise, but Grupo Odebrecht is the region's largest construction conglomerate.

    The metro in Venezuela's capital Caracas is just one of Odebrecht's major construction projects

    It started out as a small family construction group in the 1940s founded by Brazilians of German origin. It grew quickly and at its peak, around 2010, the company had 181,000 employees across 21 countries.

    Its focus is on building large projects, such as Caracas' metro, a port in Cuba and much of the infrastructure used by Brazil in the 2014 World Cup, including some of the stadiums.

    The company is also one of the biggest donors to politicians in Brazil.

    What has the company done that is illegal?

    Odebrecht is one of the firms that have been caught in Operacao Lava Jato, Brazil's corruption probe into the state oil giant Petrobras. Dozens of companies acknowledged paying bribes to politicians and officials in exchange for contracts with Petrobras.

    Lava Jato is the anti-corruption operation investigating Brazils energy giant Petrobras

    In June 2015, the group's chief executive, Marcelo Odebrecht, the grandson of its founder, was arrested. Since then, he and dozens of other company executives have been jailed.

    In 2016, all of them signed deals with Brazilian investigators, agreeing to confess to crimes and to identify corrupt officials in exchange for shorter prison sentences.

    Odebrecht executives have confessed to paying bribes in exchange for contracts not only in Brazil, but in various parts of the world. An international taskforce of investigators is looking into bribery in 10 countries, including Argentina, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru and Venezuela.

    In December 2016, Odebrecht signed a leniency deal with authorities in the US and Switzerland, agreeing to pay $2.6bn in fines for its past mistakes - the largest sum of its kind in the world.

    The company also tried to settle cases with other governments so that it would be allowed to tender for future major infrastructure projects.

    What have Odebrecht executives confessed to?

    The most explosive statements came from the former boss, Marcelo Odebrecht, who said that part of the $48m he donated to Dilma Rousseff and Michel Temer's campaign in the 2014 Brazilian presidential election was illegal.

    Marcelo Odebrecht was sentenced to 19 years in jail for his part in the corruption scandal

    Outside Brazil, revelations made by Odebrecht executive Jorge Barata prompted investigators in Peru to issue an arrest warrant against former President Alejandro Toledo, who is currently considered a fugitive.

    All those mentioned in the statements have strongly denied any wrongdoing, and have accused Odebrecht executives of lying.

    Are these confessions reliable?

    Not always. It is hard for investigators to determine whether those arrested are actually confessing to real crimes, or whether they are telling a story that prosecutors want to hear in exchange for shorter prison sentences.

    Plea bargains can be very rewarding for those who sign them. Some of the Petrobras executives who signed such deals in 2014 are now out of prison and serving their sentences at homes, instead of spending years in jail.

    Other countries across Latin America are beginning their own investigations into Odebrecht

    On the other hand, plea bargains have been instrumental in bringing to justice powerful people who would otherwise never have been caught.

    Source: BBC News

     


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    And on more other news, his ex-gf Amber Heard might be 'blackmailing' all her ex's to pay her before she writes a tell all book to pay Johnny. Elon definitely is on that list.

    Wonder what kind of kinks Elon has

     

    Beyond incredibly poor taste in women, one fails to see anything worthwhile with this.  


    Re: Tesla

    “Musk says Tesla's two newest car plants are losing billions of dollars”

    He calls the factories ‘gigantic money furnaces.'

    (22 June 2022)

    Tesla Inc's new car factories in Texas and Berlin are "losing billions of dollars" as they struggle to increase production because of a shortage of batteries and China port issues, Chief Executive Elon Musk said recently.

    "Both Berlin and Austin factories are gigantic money furnaces right now. Okay? It's really like a giant roaring sound, which is the sound of money on fire," Musk said in an interview with Tesla Owners Silicon Valley, an official Tesla recognized club, in Austin, Texas, on May 31.

    The club divided its interview with Musk into three parts, the last of which was released Wednesday.

    Musk said Tesla's Texas factory produces a "tiny" number of cars because of challenges in boosting production of its new "4680" batteries and as tools to make its conventional 2170 batteries are "stuck in port in China."

    The Shanghai COVID shutdowns in China "were very, very difficult," he said. The shutdown affected car production not only at Tesla's Shanghai factory, but also at its California plant, which uses some vehicle parts made in China.

    "The past two years have been an absolute nightmare of supply chain interruptions, one thing after another, and we're not out of it yet," Musk said.

    Tesla's overwhelming concern, he said, is "How do we keep the factories operating so we can pay people and not go bankrupt?"

    Musk said earlier this week that a 10 percent cut in salaried staff at Tesla will happen over three months. He also said a U.S. recession was more likely than not. Tesla earlier this year started production at the factories in Berlin and Texas, both of which are critical to the growth ambitions of the top electric car maker.

    Musk said he expected Tesla would start production of its Cybertruck electric pickup trucks, which has been delayed, in mid-2023.

    Link: https://www.autonews.com/automakers-suppliers/musk-says-teslas-two-newest-car-plants-are-losing-billions-dollars

    …is that a preview of TesIa Q2 results? Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    This is what happens with an impulsive leader who doesn’t think things through nor is willing to listen to his executive team.  SpaceX works because he granted overall control to Gwynn Shotwell.  However, he wants to keep Tesla close and is involved in too many frivolous decisions there. I can’t imagine the problems of replacement parts when the plants making similar looking products use totally different designs underneath the sheet metal.  The game is economies of scale favored by the other automakers like Volkswagen Group.  


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    This is what happens with an impulsive leader who doesn’t think things through nor is willing to listen to his executive team.  SpaceX works because he granted overall control to Gwynn Shotwell.  However, he wants to keep Tesla close and is involved in too many frivolous decisions there. I can’t imagine the problems of replacement parts when the plants making similar looking products use totally different designs underneath the sheet metal.  The game is economies of scale favored by the other automakers like Volkswagen Group.  

    Or it could be that he is just honestly describing how expensive a factory is until normal production volumes are reached.  No demand for products is a bigger problem which Tesla does not have. 
    To think for a second that Tesla is not focused like a laser on economies of scale is frankly ridiculous.  
    You may not be aware that the factories which have been running for more than a few months enjoy some of the industries biggest profit margins. Check back in 12 months maybe. 


    Re: Tesla

    I was rather favoring Ford's Mach E over Tesla products. Mostly the styling and the 25th anniversary '89 Mustang was the first car I bought for my wife. However the latest "stop delivery" which is great compared to an actual "stop sale" order for the Mach E, oh and the stupid Mach E name (golly I hate that) makes me turn back to a company that has been making electric cars for a while without similar across the board issues. Tesla looking ever more likely to be the next purchase.


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:

    This is what happens with an impulsive leader who doesn’t think things through nor is willing to listen to his executive team.  SpaceX works because he granted overall control to Gwynn Shotwell.  However, he wants to keep Tesla close and is involved in too many frivolous decisions there. I can’t imagine the problems of replacement parts when the plants making similar looking products use totally different designs underneath the sheet metal.  The game is economies of scale favored by the other automakers like Volkswagen Group.  

    Or it could be that he is just honestly describing how expensive a factory is until normal production volumes are reached.  No demand for products is a bigger problem which Tesla does not have. 
    To think for a second that Tesla is not focused like a laser on economies of scale is frankly ridiculous.  
    You may not be aware that the factories which have been running for more than a few months enjoy some of the industries biggest profit margins. Check back in 12 months maybe. 

    One is not a friggin idiot.  I have more experience in tech investing and manufacturing than you do so lay off the damned commentary about how knowledgeable you.  You’re nothing more than an overly-hyped self-righteous Tesla owner and there are thousands and thousands just like you. 


     
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