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    998 in 2010 or later...?

    Hello again...

    Ok this year we will get the Facelift...

    But when comes the 998 - 2010 or later...?


    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    later

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    Definitely not 2010. My guess is 2011 at the earliest, but not likely. Probably 2012. 2012 because:

    1) 2011 is not likely. The facelift is 2009. Only two years for the facelift doesn't make a lot of sense. Again, possible, but not likely.
    2) 2012 intro gives us a 7 year product cycle. Any longer than that and we are probably treading into an unusually long product cycle, when compared to the previous 3 generations of 911's, at least.

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    I read an interview of Wiedeking awhile back and he said that there would be no new models introduced before 2012 except for the Panamera.

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    We most probably will see it 2011 in September

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    Quote:
    Lars997 said:
    We most probably will see it 2011 in September



    What are we going to talk about until then?

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    Lars997 said:
    We most probably will see it 2011 in September



    What are we going to talk about until then?



    Facelifts... new Ferrari 149... Panamera... and maybe we all get old and we talk about an Buick Lucerne - haha

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    Quote:
    Prätorianer said:
    Hello again...

    Ok this year we will get the Facelift...

    But when comes the 998 - 2010 or later...?





    The new 911 project codename is 991 and the new 987 project codename is 981. The iteration is now back to 1. Depends on the sales I think earliest 2011 with possiblity of being pushed further by a year?

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?


    Quote:


    The new 911 project codename is 991 and the new 987 project codename is 981. The iteration is now back to 1. Depends on the sales I think earliest 2011 with possiblity of being pushed further by a year?



    Is this really true? So no 998.. That's going to make it even more difficult explaining the codenames of 911's to non-porschofiles...

    Does anyone actually know about the logic behind those Codenames? 911, 964, 993, 996, 997, they do not all make sense, do they?

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    Quote:
    Lars997 said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    Lars997 said:
    We most probably will see it 2011 in September



    What are we going to talk about until then?



    Facelifts... new Ferrari 149... Panamera... and maybe we all get old and we talk about an Buick Lucerne - haha



    Don't forget the F430 successor and new Gallardo...

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    Quote:
    Flyer.. said:

    Is this really true? So no 998..



    991/981 has been mentioned in German carmags. I guess they just want to gain some time before hitting the 1,000
    Non-porschephiles don't care for these numbers - they are happy if they can distinguish a Carrera from a Boxster

    I've read that in the old days they had a numeric order for the various drafts/car projects, hence the car with the project number 911 was named the 911 (sounds like the typical approach of an engineering oriented enterprise - no marketing voodoo). I've no clue how they came up with the numbers for the modern Porsches.

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    Quote:
    Lars997 said:
    We most probably will see it 2011 in September




    No, I heard there's going to be up to a six month delay in production because of a temporary manganese and leather shortage.



    (kidding)

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    Flyer.. said:

    Is this really true? So no 998..



    991/981 has been mentioned in German carmags. I guess they just want to gain some time before hitting the 1,000
    Non-porschephiles don't care for these numbers - they are happy if they can distinguish a Carrera from a Boxster

    I've read that in the old days they had a numeric order for the various drafts/car projects, hence the car with the project number 911 was named the 911 (sounds like the typical approach of an engineering oriented enterprise - no marketing voodoo). I've no clue how they came up with the numbers for the modern Porsches.



    The first 911 was actually designated 901, but Peugeot has the rights for all 3 digit numbers with a zero in the middle. They protested, and Porsche changed 901 to 911.

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    yep true, and the first 993 was here in september '92 (=MY '93) But 964 and 996 are just 'choosen'?

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    Quote:
    Spyderidol said:
    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    Flyer.. said:

    Is this really true? So no 998..



    991/981 has been mentioned in German carmags. I guess they just want to gain some time before hitting the 1,000
    Non-porschephiles don't care for these numbers - they are happy if they can distinguish a Carrera from a Boxster

    I've read that in the old days they had a numeric order for the various drafts/car projects, hence the car with the project number 911 was named the 911 (sounds like the typical approach of an engineering oriented enterprise - no marketing voodoo). I've no clue how they came up with the numbers for the modern Porsches.



    The first 911 was actually designated 901, but Peugeot has the rights for all 3 digit numbers with a zero in the middle. They protested, and Porsche changed 901 to 911.



    This is what I believe also.

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    Quote:
    Spyderidol said:
    The first 911 was actually designated 901, but Peugeot has the rights for all 3 digit numbers with a zero in the middle. They protested, and Porsche changed 901 to 911.



    Yes, you're right I just wanted to explain how the number thing originally started. I've no idea re 914, 944, 968, 928, 986 etc.

    Model numbers...

    are, as I understand it, project numbers. So the 914 was the 914th project etc. What that means in reality is that the next 911 is probably not likely to be project named "998" but some new configuration or that Porsche will have turned the clock back to 0 and have begun again.

    Re: Model numbers...

    I can't imagine that they scrapped project 000 through 900 though...
    And what after the 991? 992? And then? 994, 995, 998?
    They'll probably start referring to it as 911-01 etc..?
    -Joost-

    Re: Model numbers...

    Quote:
    Joost said:
    I can't imagine that they scrapped project 000 through 900 though...


    What about the 356, 550 and 718?

    A Project can be...

    Anything engineering or styling related. It could be a new ABS controller. It could be a new design of door handle mechanism. And remember Porsche is also an engineering consultancy that may use the same numerical sequencing of projects as the car division.

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    Porsche started his three-digit code at 3xx, not to look too blunt when starting his business.


    Quote:
    Lars997 said:
    We most probably will see it 2011 in September



    September, hm? Wonder what'd be held at that point of time.

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    Hello, all.

    The reality is, Porsche put code numbers to all their products - not only cars. Panzerkampfwagen Maus (a tank built by Porsche during WW2) was given the code number "205", predecessor of VW Beetle had the code number "60", etc. We all know about the Le Man winning "956" and "962". Type 995 was a concept 4-door sports car which was built in 1979, but never went to the market. However we all know about "930" and "964", etc. all appeared after 1979 -- so, there is nothing wrong with the next 911 being 991 - perhaps the concept came out before the 997. Which makes me think perhaps the next 911 may be a mid-engine sports car (considering the fact that Boxster's code number is 987).

    Re: 998 in 2010 or later...?

    Quote:
    kampanerla said:
    .... Which makes me think perhaps the next 911 may be a mid-engine sports car (considering the fact that Boxster's code number is 987).



    Well, a mid-engine 911 replacement has been debated lots on this and other boards. As much as I love mid-engine layouts, they do seem to give automakers a major migraine, and any decision to move the 911 anywhere other than rear engine would be fraught with market risk.

    Nick has bemoaned Ferrari's move to a front engine layout for the new (but not entry) F-car; but for all these companies the mid-engine layout seems to reach definite sales and acceptance limits - suggesting that there is no way to design a high-sales, 911-ish price mid-engine car with both the performance and usability that people really want, even while they claim to not worry about the +2 seating or trunk space. The R8 could test this theory, but not while Audi restricts its production to 15 a day meaning it will never have the chance to challenge 911 sales. And, the Cayman has not exactly lit up the sales figures to give Porsche confidence that the world wants more affordable mid-engine cars.

    My only hope is that Porsche is very carefully watching its now-family-tied R8 sales to see whether they are justified in doing the development necessary to take the 911 in a new direction (or just introduce a new, 911TT-priced mid-engine line and let the 911 do what the market decides). If R8 sales weaken after the must-haves get theirs, then I am pessimistic that the PAG financial wizards will follow it..

    But 986...

    the original Boxster came out before 996 the first water cooled 911. Chances are Porsche are already well beyond 1000, so the next generation 911 could be something like 021...

    Re: Model numbers...

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    What about the 356, 550 and 718?



    ... True! Forgot about those!
    -Joost-

    Portfolio management

    Quote:
    My only hope is that Porsche is very carefully watching its now-family-tied R8 sales to see whether they are justified in doing the development necessary to take the 911 in a new direction (or just introduce a new, 911TT-priced mid-engine line and let the 911 do what the market decides). If R8 sales weaken after the must-haves get theirs, then I am pessimistic that the PAG financial wizards will follow it..



    Why would they bother? In terms of portfolio management you have the Boxster/Cayman and new VW mide-engined sports car below the 911, and above it you have R8, Gallardo, Mercielargo, and Bugatti. Why would PAG want to kill the iconic cash-cow by making it the same as other models in the portolio and compete with them? Not even Forrest Gump would do that. If you don't like the 911 because it's rear engined, then move to another family member that is either front engined (new 928 an Panamerica) or a mid-engined model mentioned above.

    Re: Portfolio management

    I agree with Le Chef. The 911 has it's own league.

    Re: Portfolio management

    Quote:
    Le Chef said:Why would they bother? In terms of portfolio management you have the Boxster/Cayman and new VW mide-engined sports car below the 911, and above it you have R8, Gallardo, Mercielargo, and Bugatti. Why would PAG want to kill the iconic cash-cow by making it the same as other models in the portolio and compete with them? Not even Forrest Gump would do that. If you don't like the 911 because it's rear engined, then move to another family member that is either front engined (new 928 an Panamerica) or a mid-engined model mentioned above.


    I think you have a good point. I just hope they make the 911 more of a sportscar (lighter/smaller), since they'll have the new 928 to handle the fast Touring Coupe segment (or will we need to buy a Cayman if we want a Porsche sportscar coupe?).

    Re: Portfolio management

    Quote:
    Le Chef said:
    Quote:
    My only hope is that Porsche is very carefully watching its now-family-tied R8 sales to see whether they are justified in doing the development necessary to take the 911 in a new direction (or just introduce a new, 911TT-priced mid-engine line and let the 911 do what the market decides). If R8 sales weaken after the must-haves get theirs, then I am pessimistic that the PAG financial wizards will follow it..



    Why would they bother? In terms of portfolio management you have the Boxster/Cayman and new VW mide-engined sports car below the 911, and above it you have R8, Gallardo, Mercielargo, and Bugatti. Why would PAG want to kill the iconic cash-cow by making it the same as other models in the portolio and compete with them? Not even Forrest Gump would do that. If you don't like the 911 because it's rear engined, then move to another family member that is either front engined (new 928 an Panamerica) or a mid-engined model mentioned above.



    If everybody is indifferent to the badge on their VW/PAG Group sports car, you're right. But are they? Porsche owners are some of the most loyal, and while this board has lots of open minded enthusiasts and P-owners who will happily cross shop an Audi, there seem to be lots more who love the unique feel, driving purity etc. that Porsche puts into their sports cars - hence the hope from many that Porsche, not the others, will meet their needs.

    But putting aside the brand stuff, we are very lucky to have the large and growing list of great cars available right now.

    The unbearable lightness of being...

    Quote:
    [I just hope they make the 911 more of a sportscar (lighter/smaller), since they'll have the new 928 to handle the fast Touring Coupe segment (or will we need to buy a Cayman if we want a Porsche sportscar coupe?).



    ...a legend that is the 911.

    I agree Grant. Porsche doesn't need a mid-engined 911, just a more distinctive 911.

    While the "format" of the 911 could/should stay the same - rear engined and styling - it could carve a desirable niche for itself with ultra-light weight sports cars (greener probably too) for agile track-oriented drivers who don't value frou, frou leather wrapped cup-holders etc. I would love to see Porsche develop a light-weight "RS/Stradale/CSL" approach to the 911.

    But clearly the "full cream/bordello" as optional extra's approach appeals to many customers who either have not understood what makes driving a Porsche different (coming out of an Audi, or BMW for example) or don't yet put Porsche at the top of their list because the stats are not obviously quantifiably better (The Motor Trend reader). Those people supply a chunk of Porsche's profits, and they don't care about performance, just luxury and the brand name cache, so it's unlikely to ever happen.

     
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