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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Grant:
    Carlos from Spain:

    1496481995129angrycat_icon_icon.ico

    Slightly slower than GT3.

     

    Last Friday McLaren had a track day at my track. a pro was doing passenger hot laps in a 720S. There are also 570S, 650S, 12C on hand. 

    The car is super fast in a straight line, but it doesn't corner quite as well as everyone expected. It isn't cornering as hard as others in the slow and medium speed corners, and the braking isn't that strong either. The mechanical grip just isn't there.

    It needs wider rubber. Same comment as every other McLaren. All McLarens are under-tired. 


    --

     

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    ¡Whoopsy:
    Grant:
    Carlos from Spain:

    1496481995129angrycat_icon_icon.ico

    Slightly slower than GT3.

     

    Last Friday McLaren had a track day at my track. a pro was doing passenger hot laps in a 720S. There are also 570S, 650S, 12C on hand. 

    The car is super fast in a straight line, but it doesn't corner quite as well as everyone expected. It isn't cornering as hard as others in the slow and medium speed corners, and the braking isn't that strong either. The mechanical grip just isn't there.

    It needs wider rubber. Same comment as every other McLaren. All McLarens are under-tired. 

    Not quite correct: stopping distance of the AZ test car is far better than any other car, it seems (like 111m from 200kph Smiley).

    Cornering is limited by the narrow front tires of course. Still, the car seems faster than nearly any other car on the track, and in the straight line for sure. The AZ test states that they would have reached even better lap times if they could have done more laps. Also, the upcoming Sportauto Supertest will feature a 720s on Trofeo R. I am very excited to see the results.

    One could summarize that the 720s kicks a** with Porsche Smiley 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Grant:

    Slightly slower than GT3.

    You need to look up the numbers again...


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Grant is referring to the official GT3 lap which is indeed a sec faster, not the Sport Auto time, not comparable lap times (magazine vs official) but still the GT3 has much less HP.

    Not impressed at all for a car with such HP at a track that favours HP like the NRing... 7:14 with 720HP?  1496481995129angrycat_icon_icon.ico


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    This car is sub 7 minutes on Trofeos/cup2 and a factory pro. The tires alone could make it under 7 minutes.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Carlos from Spain:

    Grant is referring to the official GT3 lap which is indeed a sec faster, not the Sport Auto time, not comparable lap times (magazine vs official) but still the GT3 has much less HP.

    Not impressed at all for a car with such HP at a track that favours HP like the NRing... 7:14 with 720HP?  1496481995129angrycat_icon_icon.ico


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

    Well, the GT2RS might be faster but let's wait for an independent verification Smiley And the rest of the Porsche product range? Nothing competitive. On a GP style track the 720s might kill all Porsche models (including the GT2RS). The NBR is the only place where Porsche still has an advantage given their strong development focus on the Nurburgring Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Don't underestimate Porsche

    675LT even on trofeo R wasn't that impressive. A GT3 RS took care of it.

    720 is less track focused. It's fast on straights but so is the gt2RS.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    ¡Whoopsy:
    Grant:
    Carlos from Spain:

    1496481995129angrycat_icon_icon.ico

    Slightly slower than GT3.

     

    Last Friday McLaren had a track day at my track. a pro was doing passenger hot laps in a 720S. There are also 570S, 650S, 12C on hand. 

    The car is super fast in a straight line, but it doesn't corner quite as well as everyone expected. It isn't cornering as hard as others in the slow and medium speed corners, and the braking isn't that strong either. The mechanical grip just isn't there.

    It needs wider rubber. Same comment as every other McLaren. All McLarens are under-tired. 

    Not quite correct: stopping distance of the AZ test car is far better than any other car, it seems (like 111m from 200kph Smiley).

    Cornering is limited by the narrow front tires of course. Still, the car seems faster than nearly any other car on the track, and in the straight line for sure. The AZ test states that they would have reached even better lap times if they could have done more laps. Also, the upcoming Sportauto Supertest will feature a 720s on Trofeo R. I am very excited to see the results.

    One could summarize that the 720s kicks a** with Porsche Smiley 

     

    Perhaps a one off. 

    The other day on the track the braking point keep moving back every lap. Even the cool down after a session didn't help. By the end of the day, the braking point has moved almost 50m back on our 800m long straight, where it can top 250+km/hr earlier in the day and need to drop down to around 120km/hr to make the corner. The braking system cannot handle the heat soak.

    Make sense, as that low front end can only be opened up that much for cooling, and there are lots of stuff needed to be cooled, the engine, the intercoolers, oil coolers, transmission coolers, and the brakes. 

    The 918 and P1 lead the way in the top speed there, 260+ km/hr, the 720S pretty much tied the F12 as the 3rd fastest. But just like the F12, the inadequate brakes makes the long straight shorter and shorter as the days goes by and the top speed drops accordingly. Even the P1 suffers brake fade after a few laps. 


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    auto_zeitung_-_mclaren_720s (4).jpg


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:
    . By the end of the day, the braking point has moved almost 50m back on our 800m long straight, where it can top 250+km/hr earlier in the day and need to drop down to around 120km/hr to make the corner. The braking system cannot handle the heat soak.

     

    If that was not due to a technical problem the moving braking points points seem to indicate problems with the tires rather than with the brake. AZ also states that the breaks are very stable under extreme conditions. Also, based on my experience, ceramic brakes don't get any weaker when they get hot. Was the car on track on Corsa tires?


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Slow time and what is really strange is the fact that it's only 6kmh faster than GT2 RS at Dottinger. With all that clever aero from McL compared to the high downforce setup of the Porsche...

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    That's not a slow time. That's under 7 minutes when you stick unreleased Cup2 tires on it and let a factory driver do it like Porsche did with the RS.

    A factory driver and Trofeo Rs would cut 20 seconds off that lap easily.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    LOL... "slow", "slower".

    This is a much better allrounder than the ultimate GT2 RS, also I wouldn't call a difference of 6 kph in the 320-territory "only" either. This is the fastest recorded topspeed on the Döttinger Höhe for a production car AFAIK, also 7:14 with a 60-plus-year old dude is mighty impressive. 

    In Sport Auto's Supertest Herr Gebhart will probably cut a few seconds off this 7:14 min time (which is also 7 seconds better than the 488 GTB's time on the more hardcore Cup 2 tyres). It's also only a second slower than the same driver's time for the 918 Spyder. Seriously, stop this slow/slower nonsense.

    It is an incredibly, bloody quick car. Also it's the fastest accelerating supercar out there today (0-100 kph in 2,6 s, 0-200 in 7,1).


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Boyko23:

    Slow time and what is really strange is the fact that it's only 6kmh faster than GT2 RS at Dottinger. With all that clever aero from McL compared to the high downforce setup of the Porsche...

     

    Where have we come to if we claim a 7'14" full lap is supposed to be slow? Have you ever driven there? Any lap below 8 feels blisteringly quick, I think people are losing touch of what kind of place the NS actually is. 

    Us regular drivers would never notice the difference between a 7'30" or a 7' car, it simply means it's a hugely quick and capable machine with limits far beyond ours.


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    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Porker:
     

    Us regular drivers would never notice the difference between a 7'30" or a 7' car, it simply means it's a hugely quick and capable machine with limits far beyond ours.


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    1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad

    +1  Argumenting about cars in that braquet range being faster or not so fast is just theoretical mind discussion just for the sake of discussing and arguing . In real life , as you said we would not notice any difference and , most importantly , not even come nearly close to these times . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    acrobat:

    LOL... "slow", "slower".

    This is a much better allrounder than the ultimate GT2 RS, also I wouldn't call a difference of 6 kph in the 320-territory "only" either. This is the fastest recorded topspeed on the Döttinger Höhe for a production car AFAIK, also 7:14 with a 60-plus-year old dude is mighty impressive. 

    In Sport Auto's Supertest Herr Gebhart will probably cut a few seconds off this 7:14 min time (which is also 7 seconds better than the 488 GTB's time on the more hardcore Cup 2 tyres). It's also only a second slower than the same driver's time for the 918 Spyder. Seriously, stop this slow/slower nonsense.

    It is an incredibly, bloody quick car. Also it's the fastest accelerating supercar out there today (0-100 kph in 2,6 s, 0-200 in 7,1).

    CG will achieve around 6.52min with 991.2 GT2 RS and around 7.08min with 720S on latest Trofeos.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    acrobat:

    This is a much better allrounder 

    This the key point about the 720S. Its an everyday car which is astonishingly fast in a straight line,  and now clearly pretty accomplished on the Nordschleife too. Well Done,  McLaren Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Exactly ! McLaren Frankfurt told us that the 720S has 50% less downforce than the 675LT - but for that a LT will follow ....simple.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:
    . By the end of the day, the braking point has moved almost 50m back on our 800m long straight, where it can top 250+km/hr earlier in the day and need to drop down to around 120km/hr to make the corner. The braking system cannot handle the heat soak.

     

    If that was not due to a technical problem the moving braking points points seem to indicate problems with the tires rather than with the brake. AZ also states that the breaks are very stable under extreme conditions. Also, based on my experience, ceramic brakes don't get any weaker when they get hot. Was the car on track on Corsa tires?

     

    Yes, it was on fresh Corsa.

    Cornering speed and corner exits doesn't semi to changed though, if it was degrading tires then both would suffer.

    But the car sounded awesome at full throttle from the outside!


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Roll races, 720S vs 675 LT, TDF, 918, and Chiron.

     

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    kiss


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    KresoF1:
    acrobat:

    LOL... "slow", "slower".

    This is a much better allrounder than the ultimate GT2 RS, also I wouldn't call a difference of 6 kph in the 320-territory "only" either. This is the fastest recorded topspeed on the Döttinger Höhe for a production car AFAIK, also 7:14 with a 60-plus-year old dude is mighty impressive. 

    In Sport Auto's Supertest Herr Gebhart will probably cut a few seconds off this 7:14 min time (which is also 7 seconds better than the 488 GTB's time on the more hardcore Cup 2 tyres). It's also only a second slower than the same driver's time for the 918 Spyder. Seriously, stop this slow/slower nonsense.

    It is an incredibly, bloody quick car. Also it's the fastest accelerating supercar out there today (0-100 kph in 2,6 s, 0-200 in 7,1).

    CG will achieve around 6.52min with 991.2 GT2 RS and around 7.08min with 720S on latest Trofeos.

    The second figure sounds right - the first will be higher Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:
    . By the end of the day, the braking point has moved almost 50m back on our 800m long straight, where it can top 250+km/hr earlier in the day and need to drop down to around 120km/hr to make the corner. The braking system cannot handle the heat soak.

     

    If that was not due to a technical problem the moving braking points points seem to indicate problems with the tires rather than with the brake. AZ also states that the breaks are very stable under extreme conditions. Also, based on my experience, ceramic brakes don't get any weaker when they get hot. Was the car on track on Corsa tires?

     

    Yes, it was on fresh Corsa.

    Cornering speed and corner exits doesn't semi to changed though, if it was degrading tires then both would suffer.

    But the car sounded awesome at full throttle from the outside!

    Strange - the ceramic brakes on the market usually show no fading at all. Even under extreme conditions Smiley Also, the AZ test explicitly writes how great the brakes are. No fading etc. mentioned.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:
    . By the end of the day, the braking point has moved almost 50m back on our 800m long straight, where it can top 250+km/hr earlier in the day and need to drop down to around 120km/hr to make the corner. The braking system cannot handle the heat soak.

     

    If that was not due to a technical problem the moving braking points points seem to indicate problems with the tires rather than with the brake. AZ also states that the breaks are very stable under extreme conditions. Also, based on my experience, ceramic brakes don't get any weaker when they get hot. Was the car on track on Corsa tires?

     

    Yes, it was on fresh Corsa.

    Cornering speed and corner exits doesn't semi to changed though, if it was degrading tires then both would suffer.

    But the car sounded awesome at full throttle from the outside!

    Strange - the ceramic brakes on the market usually show no fading at all. Even under extreme conditions Smiley Also, the AZ test explicitly writes how great the brakes are. No fading etc. mentioned.

     

    I don't think AZ stressed the car like we did, the 720S was driven hard from 9am to 4pm. 20 mins sessions with about  a 20mins wait in between.

    The only cars I have driven on track with ceramic brakes that doesn't fade lap after lap was the 918 and the GT3RS/911R. My F12, Huracan and Aston all had some form of fade. Actually the Cayenne Turbo S was really good too, but the tires were the limiting factor, not enough grip. 

    The 918 ones were amazing, almost matching the PFC Cup Car brakes on my ClubSport, I can just hammered them. order after corner without kicking into ABS, pretty sure that has to do with the regen braking as the brake system itself isn't stressed that much. The GT3RS/911R was great too, but I can't pressed on the brake pedals as hard as ABS kicks in. 

    Physics simply takes over on the Aston, it's a heavy car. The F12 over heats its brake system even with the brake cooling flap opened, and eats up all the pads in the process, the Hiuracan was handicapped by street usage brake fluid, it boiled them. I suspect the 720S likely have street fluid instead of track fluid too. Ambient heat was around 26-28 degrees during the McLaren days.

    There is a pattern here, only Porsche designed their brake cooling to handling sessions after sessions, the other manufacturers just design them to be good enough for one session, which is how most cars are being tested. Endurance vs sprinting. Just different philosophy.


    --

     

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:
    MKSGR:
    Whoopsy:
    . By the end of the day, the braking point has moved almost 50m back on our 800m long straight, where it can top 250+km/hr earlier in the day and need to drop down to around 120km/hr to make the corner. The braking system cannot handle the heat soak.

     

    If that was not due to a technical problem the moving braking points points seem to indicate problems with the tires rather than with the brake. AZ also states that the breaks are very stable under extreme conditions. Also, based on my experience, ceramic brakes don't get any weaker when they get hot. Was the car on track on Corsa tires?

     

    Yes, it was on fresh Corsa.

    Cornering speed and corner exits doesn't semi to changed though, if it was degrading tires then both would suffer.

    But the car sounded awesome at full throttle from the outside!

    Strange - the ceramic brakes on the market usually show no fading at all. Even under extreme conditions Smiley Also, the AZ test explicitly writes how great the brakes are. No fading etc. mentioned.

     

    I don't think AZ stressed the car like we did, the 720S was driven hard from 9am to 4pm. 20 mins sessions with about  a 20mins wait in between.

     

    These are extreme conditions indeed Smiley


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Apart from the brake issue, there was no other problems with the 720S, didn't overheat or whatnots. 

    It's a very strong offering from McLaren that's for sure. 

     


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:

    Apart from the brake issue, there was no other problems with the 720S, didn't overheat or whatnots. 

    It's a very strong offering from McLaren that's for sure

     

    Smiley I get sick when I compare a base McLaren 720S to a fully optioned 991.2 Turbo S. Basically same price in Germany. Smiley  I could live with a base 720S but probably not with a base Turbo S.

    My Porsche dealer told me that he lost many customers to McLaren, not because of the overall performance but simply...power. 720 hp sound very impressive and Porsche couldn't even pass the 600 hp barrier in their "top of the line" 911, the  911 Turbo S (the Exclusive model is a different story since it is limited).

    Two cars coming too late from Porsche (if they come): 960 and "Panamera" Coupe (928 successor). Meanwhile customers are looking elsewhere. 


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Isn't Mclaren 720S German base price 247.350,00 € with Mwst?

    I do not think that you can get at that price with 991.2 Turbo S Coupe, even with some Exclusive Manufaktur options. I saw one with PTS, special wheels from Exclusive series(now available via Tequipment as well) and full leather/special stitching interior for 235.000,00 €. 

    Average 720S is speced with minor options and ends at 270.000,00€ since Mclaren options like paint or lightweight wheels are pretty expensive.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    KresoF1:

    Isn't Mclaren 720S German base price 247.350,00 € with Mwst?

    I do not think that you can get at that price with 991.2 Turbo S Coupe, even with some Exclusive Manufaktur options. I saw one with PTS, special wheels from Exclusive series(now available via Tequipment as well) and full leather/special stitching interior for 235.000,00 €. 

    Average 720S is speced with minor options and ends at 270.000,00€ since Mclaren options like paint or lightweight wheels are pretty expensive.

    A well optioned 991.2 Turbo S is around 230k EUR in Germany, I agree but the 720S isn't far away and you can "live" with a base 720S for that kind of power. The difference is really marginal, the 720S is really a good offer from McLaren. They could have asked 270k for the car and it would have sold. Actually, I am pretty confident that at some point, there will be a price raise. Also look at the base price of the 488 GTB...the 991.2 Turbo S is just overpriced for what it offers. The only advantage of this car is the stealth appearance and the amazing performance for that setup. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Here in Canada, a nicely optioned 720S is pushing CAD$400k, a quite well equipped Turbo S is 240k. My Turbo S Exclusive is just over 300k.

    The 720S is solidly in F12/812 territory.


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