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    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Better Ring times and PSM will make the 997 GT2 faster than the 997 GT3 in the hands of average trackers.

    I was having a duel with a GT3 at the Ring recently. I looked in the mirror and saw the GT3 spin (luckily it did not hit anything). PSM would probably have kept the car moving forwards.

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Modrocket_stereo said:
    Are we reading the same sentence? I believe you are misinterpreting the sentence. 'The traction control is subtle, if not as clever as the 430 Scuderia's.'



    I believe the writer meant the stability management system of the Scud is technically better though both are effective. More importantly, it is clear he preferred the GT3 over the GT2.

    Only very hard core track people have a reason to buy the GT2.



    No, the writer didn't imply that the Scud stability management was better. It was simply stated that it had more settings. Personally, I see no need for a half-assed stabiliy system. It is either ON, because you can't afford to do anything stupid, or it is OFF. Anything in-between is useless IMO.

    Regarding buyer type, I seriously doubt that. Both the Scuderia and the GT2 will be bought by pretty much all types of customers.



    If a a stability system has more settings, is it not technically better? I stated both were equally effective.

    If this car attracted all type of buyers, Porsche would produce a hell of a lot more. They know it is a very narrow market segment.

    To those who can't get an allocation, thank your lucky stars. The Gt2 depreciation will be huge. Within a year you probably can pick one up for 20-25% less. Porsche's at this price point do not hold their value especially since they all look alike.

    MBH, I am sure you have some valuable insights but honestly I cannot read your posts. The abbreviations and nomenclature come at the reader in staccato fashion rendering the message, at least to me, incomprehensible.



    Nick Nick Nick. When will you learn. When will you think. The GT2 is a very special car. Porsche didn't make it to attract the masses like the Boxster. You really should try to understand the target buyer before you say stupid things like, "If this car attracted all type of buyers, Porsche would produce a hell of a lot more." Do you really think "all types of buyers," as you put it, can afford at $200k car? I think you should drive your F430 more. Put 50k miles on it and see what it's resale vaue is. It will be worse than the GT2 with 50k miles because we all know the maintaince costs for a high mileage Ferrari grows exponentially!

    David

    p.s. don't forget this article from EVO that says the 997TT has better resale than the F430.



    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Modrocket_stereo said:
    Are we reading the same sentence? I believe you are misinterpreting the sentence. 'The traction control is subtle, if not as clever as the 430 Scuderia's.'



    I believe the writer meant the stability management system of the Scud is technically better though both are effective. More importantly, it is clear he preferred the GT3 over the GT2.

    Only very hard core track people have a reason to buy the GT2.



    "Only very hard core track people have a reason to buy the GT2."

    I can say the same thing about the F430. Heck, with your nutty way of thinking, noone should have a sports car with more than 300hp. You don't need more than that to have fun street driving.

    David

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Nberry said

    Quote:
    I believe the writer meant the stability management system of the Scud is technically better though both are effective. More importantly, it is clear he preferred the GT3 over the GT2.

    Only very hard core track people have a reason to buy the GT2.




    Hard core track people will go for the GT3...The GT2 is slightly 'softer' than it and thus wont have the characteristics of the GT3...

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    are you sure about this statement ?

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Japan is an interesting market - when the 996 GT2 and GT3 production were in their final stages, dealers who had stock in Japan were offering MASSIVE discounts. I was offered a GT2 for a USD 40,000 discount and a GT3 for an incredible USD 25,000 discount. My bet is come the end of the line for the 997 range the same thing will happen again.

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    996 GT2 were very poor sellers. Performance delta vs the 996TT was not big enough? Lack of PSM might also be to blame...

    997TT looks like will not fare the same way, I would bet all 08 GT2 in the US at MSRP are spoken for.

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Quote:
    ITALOKOKO said:
    are you sure about this statement ?



    Quite...GT2's are not as sharp handling as GT3's...With the previous 996 models, that was definately the case and from what I've heard about this new model, its the same thing again...


    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Quote:
    BC911 said:
    Quote:
    ITALOKOKO said:
    are you sure about this statement ?



    Quite...GT2's are not as sharp handling as GT3's...With the previous 996 models, that was definately the case and from what I've heard about this new model, its the same thing again...





    Based on recent test reports the GT2 is as agile as the GT3, meaning stearing and suspension setup is very comparable in both cars. However, the GT2 is said to feature the typical characteristics of a turbo car (no surprise...): Instant throttle response shall not be expected as in case of a NA car like the GT3.

    If this picture should be confirmed by later tests the increase in power would "cost" some directness in terms of throttle response. However, the handling of the two cars might be in the same league which would be very, very good news for the GT2

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    BC911 said:
    Quote:
    ITALOKOKO said:
    are you sure about this statement ?



    Quite...GT2's are not as sharp handling as GT3's...With the previous 996 models, that was definately the case and from what I've heard about this new model, its the same thing again...





    Based on recent test reports the GT2 is as agile as the GT3, meaning stearing and suspension setup is very comparable in both cars. However, the GT2 is said to feature the typical characteristics of a turbo car (no surprise...): Instant throttle response shall not be expected as in case of a NA car like the GT3.

    If this picture should be confirmed by later tests the increase in power would "cost" some directness in terms of throttle response. However, the handling of the two cars might be in the same league which would be very, very good news for the GT2



    I agree totally with regard to throttle response, but from what I've heard (not just from reading reviews) the GT2 will not be as sharp its smaller brother ...Like I said, that was the case with the 996 models and IMO will probably be the same here...
    Maybe I'll be proved wrong


    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Having driven neither the 997 GT2 nor the GT3, what is to follow is undoubtedly some smoke leaking out of my *ss, but I still stand by it (with pride!):

    Ask any race car driver if their car is fast enough.

    As for the track width, let's not forget that Porsche's current GT2 class contender in ALMS is the 997 GT3RSR - with a wider rear track than the standard GT3. It's wider for a good reason.

    The GT2 will surely keep up with the GT3 in the corners, and on the straights, it will blow it out of the water. It's performance numbers are C-GT like.

    And the best part is that (from what we've heard so far)you can drive it everyday.

    Give me a break. If I had a choice between a GT2 and a GT3, I'd take the GT2 in a heart beat.

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Does anyone remember what kind of depreciation hit 996 GT2's were taking?

    IIRC there were 04s trading for as low as 120k~

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Moogle: Not sure of exact numbers, but depreciation was hectic...

    Silver Bullet: Dont wanna start a back and forth argument on a car neither of us have driven yet...but... the GT2 may be faster around most tracks, but what I'm refering to is agility and responses, not just lap times...
    A Carrera S, BMW M6 and Audi RS4 all set up quite close times around the Ring...Which is the best handler?
    A Porsche Cayman sets up slower times than both the BMW and the Audi (if i remember properly)...Which car would you take for a spin around a track if you had the choice?
    A 996 MKII GT2 is quite a bit faster than a MKII 996 GT3, both on the track (Ring) and in a straight line. Go for a drive in both though and tell me which one is more agile/fun to drive....wider track or not

    I'd also take the GT2 (to own)...anyday. But for an hour around the track? Gimme the GT3 no doubt! Again, I've never driven the new GT2, so these are my assumptions/opinions....Like i said, maybe I'll be proved wrong


    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Quote:
    BC911 said:
    I'd also take the GT2 (to own)...anyday. But for an hour around the track? Gimme the GT3 no doubt! Again, I've never driven the new GT2, so these are my assumptions/opinions....Like i said, maybe I'll be proved wrong





    In fact, you might be right. A Porsche testdriver expressed to me his personal preference for the GT3 (money left aside) recently... However, I cannot confirm whether this preference for the GT3 is based on the more indirect throttle/engine response of the GT2 or a less agile handling. Could be both, implying that you may be right

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    BC911 said:
    I'd also take the GT2 (to own)...anyday. But for an hour around the track? Gimme the GT3 no doubt! Again, I've never driven the new GT2, so these are my assumptions/opinions....Like i said, maybe I'll be proved wrong





    In fact, you might be right. A Porsche testdriver expressed to me his personal preference for the GT3 (money left aside) recently... However, I cannot confirm whether this preference for the GT3 is based on the more indirect throttle/engine response of the GT2 or a less agile handling. Could be both, implying that you may be right



    I actually hoping I'm wrong!
    If the GT2 is as good as a GT3 handling wise, it will sure be a monster of a car
    Besides that, its the sound that disapoints me

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    I didn't have the chance to drive the 997 GT2 yet, so take my comments with a grain of salt please but judging by my 997 Turbo with SPORT on/PSM off, the 997 GT3 and the 996 GT2/tuned GT2, I think that most REAL track addicts/pros will still prefer the GT3 RS over the GT2. The 997 GT2 has too much torque/power for most track drivers, unless you're a real pro capable of taming the beast. Most GT2 owners will find it very difficult to keep up with the GT3 RS on the track, not even mentioning being faster.

    I'm very curious to see the Sport Auto results on the Nordschleife, I still doubt that the 997 GT2 can do below 7:40 but maybe I'm wrong.

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I didn't have the chance to drive the 997 GT2 yet, so take my comments with a grain of salt please but judging by my 997 Turbo with SPORT on/PSM off, the 997 GT3 and the 996 GT2/tuned GT2, I think that most REAL track addicts/pros will still prefer the GT3 RS over the GT2. The 997 GT2 has too much torque/power for most track drivers, unless you're a real pro capable of taming the beast. Most GT2 owners will find it very difficult to keep up with the GT3 RS on the track, not even mentioning being faster.

    I'm very curious to see the Sport Auto results on the Nordschleife, I still doubt that the 997 GT2 can do below 7:40 but maybe I'm wrong.



    We all have our own personal preferences based on how we judge cars. The GT2 appears to be a winner IMO. Is it for everyone - no. But if you want the best 911 ever made - yes.

    IMO, it definitely should be quicker around the RING than any GT3/RS, but only in the most capable hands. The average driver will most likely lap quicker in an R8 for that matter - easier and more forgiving to drive.

    We (buyers) don't look at things this way, we buy what we like or (for some) what is faster on paper (in professional's hands).

    Should it lap under 7:40s? Given much better tire technology - I sure hope so!

    Motorcycle magazines usually conduct group tests using the "same" tires. Something never done (to my knowledge) by auto magazines.

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    We may see the GT2 racing on track!
    If the proposed FIA rules for a GT world championship is approved, the GT2 is one of the cars that will be homologated to run in GT1. It will compete with other homologated cars such as the Aston Martin DB9, Ferrari 500, and Lambo Murcialago.
    The GT3 will be homologated to run in GT2 along with the Aston Martin Vantage and the Ferrari 430.

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    I think 996GT2 violent depreciation was partly due to the crappy PCCB MkI brakes that were standard, the modest weight loss compared to the TT and the less than perfect suspension tuning.

    I think the 997GT2 will be a vastly improved car!

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    "crash, bang, whollop, what a video"...

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=228368&CT=V

    if you dont know what i was referring to in my headline then look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMsVgWiJ5UE

    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Quote:
    cannga said:
    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    ...I have no difficulty at all reading VKSF/WBH's posts (I think JimFlat6 likened it to reading Her Majesty's telegram's ),




    I am convinced WBH is really a computer with AI located in a basement inside MB Headquarter, its keyboard stuck on the forward slash and unable to do capital "i." Some background program instructing computer to repeat same message over, and over, and over...




    Re: Autocar GT2 Review

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    I think 996GT2 violent depreciation was partly due to the crappy PCCB MkI brakes that were standard, the modest weight loss compared to the TT and the less than perfect suspension tuning.

    I think the 997GT2 will be a vastly improved car!



    Also lack of PSM on the 996. The 997GT2 should not depriciate as fast, at least in the US where you can't buy one at MSRP at the moment. Of course if you pay $50k over, depreciation will be much steeper. But you don't really care about that if you pay over don't you?

     
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