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    Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    It seems like 10% of new posts on rennteam have to deal with Porsche releasing new models, not being special anymore. I'm not trying to hurt Porsche's image, i'm simply wondering if Porsche's recent strategies are mainly to pull in money instead of building pure, perfect sports cars.

    I was shocked to read, and to agree with RC's post about the new 997 being not a special car. I love it, i think it looks great and will outdrive nearly everything out there. however its just doesn't seem special. Something about it seems as though porsche is adulterated it with holding back on certain areas such as direct injection or dsg or even the small things such as the apparently all desireable rear LED brake lights; heck, all those old gm astro/safari vans (or aerodynamic blocks if you prefer) had LEDs on the 3rd break light 10 years ago. As i am young I cannot comment on the drive of a new 997 or 997TT and will probably not have the opertunity to drive a new Porsche for a couple years yet. However something about that day when i will get to take one around a track just doesn't seem as special anymore as something about porsche seems tainted.

    The second thing i notice and don't really agree with is the excessive(?) release of new models. Although i think the cayenne is amazing, and the cayman is an amazing car my heart still lies with the 911 for the only reason of its history. As an engineering student i love the way the 911 was built up over the decades and the "form follows function" is almost a personal motto. With the upcomming anticipated release of a panarama 4door, a mini cayenne, and who knows what else it has me wondering, is porsche simply trying to get at every single market available? is this what's taking away from the specialness of porsche to know that a true enthusiast is driving the same car as mr. joe CEO who got it just for the Porsche image?

    I understand some of the goals of marketing but as an engineering student i also know that marketing can destroy the true spirit of a pure engineering masterpiece. just listen to this "The side air oulets and the fully enclosed tailpipes provide an indication of the rear engine's power calibre"-from the new MasterWerk porsche page. so i drill some holes in a ford tempo bumper, put the exhaust though the bumper and i have an indication of power caliber?

    I don't know, am i being foolish or are there those that agree with me?

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    I have been beating this drum for some time now. Your observations are correct. However, as a result of the near death experience in the early nineties, they decided to become a "mainstream" car company. The have discarded the philosophy of building special cars and embarked on a model strategy of a Porsche in every garage.

    Car enthusiast,car manufacturers, car magazines and the general public have taken notice. Some car manufacturers now distinguish their cars from Porsche by claiming exclusivity e.g. AMV8 3000 per year, 911 30,000 per year. Car magazines have all been referring to the 911 as being "ubiquitous", "seems like everyone has one" and so on.

    Just recently, in EVO magazine there was a letter to the editor by a 13 year old boy which they chose to publish. To paraphase, the boy an avid car fan referencing the AMV8 and 997S, " when I see a AM coming down the street it get your attention regarding its lines and sound. When I see a Porsche coming down the street my thought is, it is just another Porsche." In the past young boys like many of us dreamed of owning one. However, I am convinced the tide as turned decidedly against Porsche within this age group.

    Unfortunately, their buyer base remains devoted to buying their cars and until that changes, I doubt Porsche will change their new philosophy.

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    So why not just call them greedy, over reaching and churlish?

    Sports car market not enough? get the SUV market! Not enough? ahhhh the Benz SL Market? Lets get that also! For good measure,lets go after BMW and plan to make 100,000 sedans a year!

    Porsche is no longer just a German sportscar company per se. They are a supply chain company that designs and sometimes assembles automobiles using major components and parts made for them by other companies and their foreign suppliers.

    Sorry to break that news. Its Weidikings business formula that he learned from Toyota Supply Chain Consulting.

    Read the discussion about it on the German language part of the forum here.

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    I agree. It does seem like they've held back with the car, and there seems to be evidence of 'profiteering' in various things they do - although this could be a misplaced thought of mine.

    For example, the Sport Chrono Package Turbo. As this includes the overboost facility, which I believe to be a fundamental part of the car, I think it should be standard. Maybe this would increase the base price, but it's as if they intentionally made it an option because they know people will realise it's a 'must have' option for the car and they can profit from this.

    The same with PCCB - this was standard on the 'old' 996TTS, so why not standard on the latest 997TT? Things should be moving forward.

    As others have said, the lack of PDK, LCD lights etc makes one feel short changed.

    Porsche feels more and more like just an Audi, BMW or Mercedes - they're just not in the same league as Ferrari for desirability.

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    It certainly appears to be a second Blitzkrieg by Germany, this proliferation of Porsches. When I bought my first Porsche in 1974 they had not even sold their first 250,000th car. They were making 911s as the rate of about 45 a day. Although becoming more common, consider the alternative. If Porsche failed back in the 1990s and got bought up by some GM or Ford, what would the Porsche of today be like? Just some other fashion statement? I'm glad that at least I can still buy a new Porsche.

    dan

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    The irony is that for all of Porsches ballyhooed recovery, and new models, the profit from all of that was spent on buying shares of VW.

    Its like some sort of German crop circle!

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    Guys, do you remember that Porsche almost died in the mid 80's building the cars the enthusiasts on this website wanted?

    Look around, which "sports car only" focused company is still around? None. So why is it such a surprise that Porsche has turned to this pattern?

    If anything Porsche remains the more "hardcore" choice.

    There is not a car built today with more than 400HP that does WITHOUT computer interference EXCEPT for the GT3, GT3RS, GT2, and Carrera GT, and they are all from Porsche.

    So what, Porsche builds an SUV, and a cheaper sports car, Ferrari has those too in their FIAT line up, Lambo has it in their Audi/VW line up. At least the hard core vehicles us enthusiasts love are still available from Porsche, again the GT3 GT3RS, GT2 and Carrera GT. I truly don't get the reasoning here.

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    There is nothing wrong with trying to save the company. I agree with Dan L--would we rather have a "lot" of 911s (30,000) or none?

    The 997 remains a blast to drive. It beats the 996 hands down in my opinion. The less trained driver can push it closer to the limit (and really, how many of us do that on a consistent basis) with less worry about spinning out into a ditch or worse--this is a bad thing? Sorry, but having owned and driven Audis, BMWs, etc there still is something special about this car that none of the others have.

    A blast of a driving experience is the essence of the 911, and hopefully will continue to be the philosphy of the company. Ferdinand Porsche wasn't into exclusivity and image--he was into cars to drive. Remember the quote (rehashed many times on this board) that when Ferdinand Porsche was told that many American owners garage their cars for most of their existence, shine them to perfection, and drive them infrequently, he frowned and said "My cars are meant to be driven!"

    So there are no LED brake lights. Sport Chrono and PCCB are optional. A Ferrari or an AMV8 may get the boys in the street to look, but I prefer my car on the road most of the time instead of in the shop.

    None of this takes the pure grin of pleasure I get after a hour or two of my 911 on the road.

    Just one humble opinion.

    So which argument are we really pursuing?

    "Porsche releasing new models, not being special anymore"
    "they decided to become a "mainstream" car company"
    "there seems to be evidence of 'profiteering' in various things they do"

    I agree with the first point, but then again how are you defining "special"?

    What is wrong with being a "mainstream" manufacturer? Does that make Toyota and Honda bad?

    And the final point, why is making a profit a bad thing? If you're talking about excessive have you seen the markups on Armani, Rolex, and Tiffany??? Porsche look like rank amateurs compared that the luxury good companies!

    So which argument are we really pursuing?

    Re: So which argument are we really pursuing?

    I believe this is a serious case of wanting to "have your cake, and eat it too"

    Somehow Porsche is supposed to be cutting-edge exotic-level technology, but cottage-scale exclusivity, all at a bargain price compared to all other exotics?

    Porsche's near-implosion proved that even the most embedded and iconic marques cannot stay afloat without a savvy business plan.

    The 911 BENEFITS from Porsche's profiteering with other models, and other investments and ventures. New systems and technologies become far more feasible to develop when you can apply them and amortize them over a broader production number, which is where the Boxster (and derivatives) and Cayenne, and any partnerships as well, REALLY pay dividends in developing a 911 for a modern market. If you aim all of your efforts at the purists, you'll find the purists to be a tiny little demographic, and one that does more complaining than driving anyhow.

    I find Porsche's recent history to be rather gifted, from a business standpoint.

    And all that prosperity means that they have the LUXURY of still being able to build a car for those loyal purists, those longstanding fans that want a product that most of the world does not. That's why they build the GT3, and it's race-ready derivatives. And I'm here to tell ya, those niche cars only exist due to the success and profitability of the luxo-street versions. Without them, at the price they sell for, Porsche would either lose their shirts selling them and quickly go bankrupt, or they would have to raise the price half-again, which would similarly murder sales and send them to the poor house.

    I find the this thread humorous. Hey Porsche, why aren't you building cars that cost more, alienate most of your existing customers, but make the precious few who do want them and want to pay for them feel more "exclusive" and "pure"?? What is Porsche thinking??LOL!!!

    Everybody might want to point to Ferrari, but Ferrari customers pay ALOT of MONEY for that exclusivity and higher level of hand-built craftsmanship. The Porsche fan-base is a far more practical and cost-conscious lot I believe. You've got to know your customers, and I think they do.

    Seeing more 911's on the road is an indication of how much Porsche is doing RIGHT. If you're so worried about being elite, exclusive, uncommon, then blame your ego, not Porsche's engineers and marketers and business planners. They manage to build what is STILL universally considered the finest sportscar in the world that you can live with every day, and reasonably expect to afford. All the other sports cars out there are just toys for the uber-wealthy, or compromized poor-quality rides like the Corvette.

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Unfortunately, their buyer base remains devoted to buying their cars


    nberry you do realize how silly this sounds?
    If I may digress, it's a little like Hillary Clinton complaining that
    "unfortunately, loyal Repubicans keep voting for Republican candidates".



    Of course the greater mystique attaches proportionately to less seen, more expensive exotics. That's why I had Maserati Ghibli and Lamborghini Countach posters on my wall as a kid. Around here any Porsche is pretty rare, so I can't relate to their becoming too common. Three teenage kids were pawing all over my car at a bookstore recently, but maybe they were just planning to steal my PCM.

    I am GLAD that Porsche has implemented profit-driven strategies and decisions necessary to maintain their solvency and thus enabling production of the 997S as good as it is. Ford can subsidize Aston Martin with a bazillion here, a billion there. Porsche doesn't have the luxury of that safety net.

    If global prosperity and disposable income rise to the level where more folks can afford a Porsche, then good for us!

    I remain devoted to buying Porsche as long as they remain incredible, and definitely "special" cars. 911's are rare in these parts, I see one or two other 911's during the course of a week-- but even if there were ten Porsche's on every block, it would not diminish the pleasure of the car one iota for me.

    Re: So which argument are we really pursuing?

    69, although well intentioned, I think you missed the point that started the discussion.

    The 997TT is the company's icon halo car. "Porsche" and "Turbo" are practically synonymous.

    "Turbo" + "Automatic" equaling quickest car in their line up is not. And that is why people are asking, whats up about that?

    It looks like a grab for BMW M6 and SL AMG customers and a second place offering to the usual Porsche Turbo hard core customer base.

    Boss 69, FYI, The cars in the late 80's and early 90's were often each built twice. Once when they built them on the line, another when they got to final QC, found flaws and had to tear them apart and rebuild whole parts of them.

    In 1990 Porsche tried building and selling 964 model 911s without headgaskets and without vented distributers. Those flaws were not the fault of the market, just engineering arrogance. By the early 90s the luxury sports car market was tepid and new Porsche customers were none too happy.

    In the 80's,in the first big real estate boom and with hostile mergers and take overs rampant, resulted in many people in law, real estate and finance buying iconic cars to reward themselves with. Porsche decided to go after them. That is when Porsche expanded the options list to such tripe as $1800.00 leather covered air vent slats. When the real estate market crashed and the hostile merger era ended, Porsche sales crashed with them.

    If they had not based their business plan then on the greed and self reward poseur buyer, but on their core customers whose reputation the company and its products were built on,
    and also stressed quality, they would not have entered the 90s so weakly.

    My info about this comes from Peter Schutz, ex Porsche CEO, who identified the trends between Porsche sales and real estate values, and from a friend of mine who was President and GM for two different Porsche dealerships in the 80's and 90's and from my own onwership of these sleds.

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    All this whining. So the company's profitable? If you don't like their offering don't buy.(or, if you don't own one STFU) IMO they're doing a phenominal job with their strategy, all things considered.

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    I'm afraid that possibly the reason I missed the "point", is that there is no point to be seen. And I think that the whole story of Schultz's recitation of Porsche's problems neglects to consider that Porsche would not have been so vulnerable to the economic stumblings of the times, if they had been better diversified into vehicles that had more practical and popular appeal. That era put a damper on certain people, but far from all with money were crying the blues. Heck, our business is based on selling restoration parts for collectible vehicles. In short, purely based on disposable income. We THRIVED through that era. No, I'm hardly Porsche (laughing out loud...), but I never swallow the "it was the economy" excuse, as it usually is just that. An excuse for not having vision past your nose. You've got to manage in a manner that anticipates those worst-case scenarios, and operate in a way that can weather them. It ain't easy, and it's not always feasible in dire conditions, but I don't recall BMW or Mercedes crying the blues back then. And if we hit a serious recession tomorrow, I think Porsche today is in ONE HELL of a better position to ride it out compared with 15-20 years ago. There's nothing wrong with owning heavy stake in the company that makes diesel Golfs, should poor economic times and high energy costs set in.

    Re: So which argument are we really pursuing?

    Quote:
    Le Chef said:


    What is wrong with being a "mainstream" manufacturer? Does that make Toyota and Honda bad?






    Le Chef in the past you and I have disagree on many things. But I must tell the above statement encapulates the core issue and Porsche philosophy. They are the Honda's and Toyota's of the sport car world!

    The problem is Porsche pricing is far above the conpanies you compare them to. Today to get into a Turbo with a few options will cost close to $150,000. What for a mainstream Toyota?

    Take the case of the early 997 buyer. With some options it would cost close to $80,000. However there is a bigger problem. They introduced the S which will out-perform the base 997. Shortly after, that they introduced the S with a Power kit which will out perform the S. Shortly after that, they introduced the Cayman which is close to out performing the 997. Now we have the GT3 which will out perform the powerkit S and also have the Turbo which will out perform perform them all.

    Now back to the poor smuck who bought the base 997. He must now either keep his less than stellar performing car in the Porscche lineup or trade up and take a hosing in depreciation. In a word, he is totally screwed.

    But the investors are estatic.

    Re: So which argument are we really pursuing?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    They are the Honda's and Toyota's of the sport car world!




    The world would be a better place if Porsche were the GM of the sports car world?

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    Most of the sales of those cars to those types of buyers then involved leases. And yes BMW and Benz sales went down then also.

    Happy to hear your family does well in the restoration business. Maybe you can recall the the huge rise and the huge fall in vintage Ferrari prices then.

    As for VW, Porsche bought them at a very high price. Today VW is looking at laying off 20,000 workers and delayed model launches from poor quality. Get your VW Diesel Golf soon as they do not meet MY2007 emissions regs in the US.

    Re: So which argument are we really pursuing?

    Porsche is the only independent sports car manufacturer left-because it makes money from us. It only remains independent because of this and for that we should be grateful. I think that they strike a balance between highly profitable models which sell and make them losts of money and less profitable cars which are more focussed for enthusiasts but cement their reputation as a hard-core sports car manufacturer. Sometimes we doubt that balance is right but the very fact they built the CGT and GT3's and GT3 RS's and race cars shows their commitment to core values. Porsche's strength comes because they make cars which make money like the Cayenne and I for one will live with those anomolies if it enables them to build cars like CGT and GT3 we can lust after. If there's an area they need to be careful it is in managing volumes available of desirable models-Although we buy Porsche's because of their core sporting values, we shouldn't kid ourselves that they don't make some sort of financial sense compared to others becuase they sort of do make sense-high second hand values, relatively low running costs, reliability and so-on.

    So I for one am glad that Porsche is independent profitable and healthy and not beholden to some multinational giant.

    Re: So which argument are we really pursuing?

    Jimflat6, I just wanted to add that I'm not poo-poo-ing what your friend said. Rather, I think it illustrates clearly why Porsche is on such a smarter path today. In the late 80's they ran into a problems with build quality, internal control, and products that were stale platforms constantly propped-up and improved upon to stay fresh, but no real capital available to make the leap to new modern methods and state-of-the-art assembly. They kind of hit a "wall", didn't have profits or plans set aside to break down that wall, and then a little dip in market demand due to the economy, and "hey, this sucks" echoes down the hallways of the headquarters. But do you blame the economic downturn, or being in such a sideways position when it happened?

    I'm not knowledgable to have all the answers, but it sure seems to me that their mindset over the past 10 years sure has been better dressed for success.

    Toyota of sports cars? Ehhh, I don't see it going THAT far. But with today's expectations, 100,000 mile warranties, and the reliability of cheaper makes, you either decide to adopt some of that thinking, or you risk becoming like the British did.... So far behind that you had to sell your soul, and your company, to a monolithic mass-producer to bail you out and provide you with all your components.

    Remember, it's so easy to armchair quarterback. With so many small manufacturers having been sucked-up, I'm thinking that they beat the odds.

    Re: So which argument are we really pursuing?

    "The problem is Porsche pricing is far above the conpanies you compare them to."

    Reality is I didn't compare them to Honda or Toyota: I merely said there was nothing wrong with being mainstream.

    Porsche's competitors are all typically "mainstream" with BMW and Mercedes being in the middle of the list. Aston Martin and Ferrari are too small to be significant competitors for Porsche.

    Just to correct one thing - the base 997 still outperforms the Cayman. But as one dealer said if you buy into the legend of the 911 you buy the 911. If it's not of value you buy a Cayman stuffed full of nice options and enjoy a slightly slower car that's significantly better equipped.

    As to depreciation of the 997 it get's nowhere as a close as a used Ferrari in defying the laws of gravity when it comes to a price drop.

    Porsche's hierarchy of performance works just fine for most people. I see nothing wrong with a GT3 outperforming a 997S X51, or the TT outperforming the GT3. In fact I would be mortified if they didn't!

    As a buyer you have a choice. If you see that as a problem, maybe we need to recreate the Soviet Block for you...

    Re: So which argument are we really pursuing?

    '69, There is no question that they are in a better position financially. Weidikings legacy of a cheaper engine, more models and sourcing parts and assembly outside of Germany and Porsche has paid off.

    It seems the further they take this Weidiking path, they further they get from the reasons of their original success and feelings about those cars that they use to build current success with.

    If they want to build Panamaras in Portugal using Nissan V8s and old Chrysler Torqueflites thats one thing. But making their icon car in its sportiest configuration
    slower than their least involving version, seems a obvious ploy to grab AMG customers and a spurn for the party faithful!


    Re: So which argument are we really pursuing?

    I'm afraid that their original success occurred in a different world. It's understandable to lament what is lost, but they have no choice but to change, evolve, adapt. That's why the collector car market is so strong. If you want a taste of that old spirit and simplicity of design/execution, buy a classic. They're a hell of alot cheaper than the new ones!!! You'll learn to appreciate the past, but ALSO, you'll better appreciate your brand new Porsche as well..

    Re: So which argument are we really pursuing?

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    '69, There is no question that they are in a better position financially. Weidikings legacy of a cheaper engine, more models and sourcing parts and assembly outside of Germany and Porsche has paid off.

    It seems the further they take this Weidiking path, they further they get from the reasons of their original success and feelings about those cars that they use to build current success with.

    If they want to build Panamaras in Portugal using Nissan V8s and old Chrysler Torqueflites thats one thing. But making their icon car in its sportiest configuration
    slower than their least involving version, seems a obvious ploy to grab AMG customers and a spurn for the party faithful!





    My understanding is that almost all the Porsche models share 50% of the parts. So a $150,000 Turbo is half Boxster which costs $45,000?

    Toyota all the way!

    Le Chef I am not sure which Ferrari's you refer to. The 360 and now 430 resale values are nothing short of amazing.

    Re: So which argument are we really pursuing?

    Quote:


    Le Chef I am not sure which Ferrari's you refer to. The 360 and now 430 resale values are nothing short of amazing.



    If you can buy one at MSRP.
    How does the depreciation look after a few years if you paid $50K above for a coupe or $100K for a spider? Same as all other cars in the world...

    Also outside of the US, F cars depreciate much faster than in the US, granted not as fast as Porsches though.

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    Quote:
    schmuy said:
    I was shocked to read, and to agree with RC's post about the new 997 being not a special car



    Oh boy...the difficulty of different languages... Since English isn't my mother language, some claims from my "message" regarding my 997 Turbo disappointment may have been understood in a somehow wrong way. I try to clarify things a little bit: I don't say that the 997 isn't a special car, I just said that the new 997 Turbo doesn't feel special for me because I had different expectactions.
    I know where Nick lives and it may be true that in his neighborhood, a 997 may not be something special. I don't know where you live but I live in Germany near Munich and I can assure you that over here, a 997 is something very special. Although Germany is the second largest market for Porsche, you don't see a 997 at every corner. There are tons of new 5series BMWs, new E-class Mercedes, new Audis, Volkswagen, whatever. You hardly see a 997, you see more Cayenne than 997. So is the 997 a special car? Of course it is, not only regarding it's expensive price tag. And even the 997 Turbo is a special car, no doubt about it. I was talking about me and my personal expectations regarding the 997 Turbo. I'm just missing that "special car" feeling I had with my previously ordered cars. It may get to me sooner or later, maybe I just have to recover from the current Tiptronic is faster than Manual shock, I don't know. But thinking that a 997 is not a special car is ridiculous. On the contrary, sometimes I wish it would attract less attention but I think this is something people like Nick do not understand.

    The 911 has just won the Highest German Design Award (read here: http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=192333&an=0&page=0#192333 ) and in a german car magazine, the 911 has been elected again by their readers to be the sportscar of the year.

    So yes, the 997 is a special car. It just isn't as flashy as a Ferrari. If you can live with it, I can.

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    Too money hungry? Nah. They're a good company, treat their people well, and they make great (even legendary) products.

    There's a fantastic car for everybody. If you're "normal" you can afford a Boxster. If you're "loaded" you can buy the Turbo or CGT.

    What're the cars worth? They're worth whatever people will pay for them. Since it's all about having the best, you're gonna have to pay for it.

    That's my two cents

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    I don't know about Nick, but I really don't give a rat's a** what everybody else is driving. What I care about is what I AM driving.

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    schmuy said:
    I was shocked to read, and to agree with RC's post about the new 997 being not a special car



    Oh boy...the difficulty of different languages... Since English isn't my mother language, some claims from my "message" regarding my 997 Turbo disappointment may have been understood in a somehow wrong way. I try to clarify things a little bit: I don't say that the 997 isn't a special car, I just said that the new 997 Turbo doesn't feel special for me because I had different expectactions.
    I know where Nick lives and it may be true that in his neighborhood, a 997 may not be something special. I don't know where you live but I live in Germany near Munich and I can assure you that over here, a 997 is something very special. Although Germany is the second largest market for Porsche, you don't see a 997 at every corner. There are tons of new 5series BMWs, new E-class Mercedes, new Audis, Volkswagen, whatever. You hardly see a 997, you see more Cayenne than 997. So is the 997 a special car? Of course it is, not only regarding it's expensive price tag. And even the 997 Turbo is a special car, no doubt about it. I was talking about me and my personal expectations regarding the 997 Turbo. I'm just missing that "special car" feeling I had with my previously ordered cars. It may get to me sooner or later, maybe I just have to recover from the current Tiptronic is faster than Manual shock, I don't know. But thinking that a 997 is not a special car is ridiculous. On the contrary, sometimes I wish it would attract less attention but I think this is something people like Nick do not understand.

    The 911 has just won the Highest German Design Award (read here: http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=192333&an=0&page=0#192333 ) and in a german car magazine, the 911 has been elected again by their readers to be the sportscar of the year.

    So yes, the 997 is a special car. It just isn't as flashy as a Ferrari. If you can live with it, I can.



    I understood exactly what you were trying to say; it was myself who was in a rush to get to class so i was trying to think and type faster than normal. The 997 is most certainly a very special car, i believe i've only seen 3 or 4 in the past couple years and wow does my heart start pounding (I even forced my friend to take a detour to follow 1 for a couple blocks).

    Now that i got more time to think about this i guess what i was trying to say is that when i was younger I'd always dream of the 911 turbo and i don't know if its simply because i'm older, more mature and possibly more realistic that now i just don't dream of the new turbo as a child would.

    I guess i'm just a bit uneasy with the rate that Porsche appears to be growing lately and i'm afraid that it may turn into a large company where "form follows function only if it profits us first"-this is the reason i brought up the technical things that could be in their cars but aren't; and the large company part is why i brought up the ever expanding model lineup.

    I have a point somewhere in my head, its just not coming out clearly. btw, the 911 is still my dream car; i'm still a porschephile, ( i have Por-scha-vision!!!- i can spot a p-car from miles away). I also have to appologize for giving Nick another reason for coming out of his "cage"

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    Quote:
    schmuy said:
    It seems like 10% of new posts on rennteam have to deal with Porsche releasing new models, not being special anymore. I'm not trying to hurt Porsche's image, i'm simply wondering if Porsche's recent strategies are mainly to pull in money instead of building pure, perfect sports cars.





    Here's my 2 cents.

    1. There is no perfect car and there will never be one. I don't care who builds it. Given that cars are made by humans we can forget about a perfect car.
    2. Well since money makes the world go round and Porsche has to pay it's workers, they better sell something and a lot of them.
    3. I for one don't feel bad or see Porsche any differently since they have expanded their car line. They way I see it, if Porsche can sell a boxter to a young student or business person, they stand a chance to make them a long time customer. If they only make cars in the 100K range they can forget it.
    4. More people can afford a 50K car than a 100K car. If Porsche can make a great car in that price range go for it.

    These are just a few of my thoughts.

    Re: Is Porsche getting too money hungry?

    Bottom line -- if you can afford a $100k car, and you want a thrilling experience when you DRIVE IT EVERYDAY, you cannot beat a Porsche 911. And the 997 is the best 911 ever built, for a DRIVER. "Enthusiasts" are a different breed of animal...

     
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