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    What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germany

    Hi guys - just read the other thread on the 997 board, which got a bit heated. I'll spare my comments - I'm not always behaving like an angel myself on public roads (probably like most of us ), but if I'm "in the need for speed" on a Sunday morning, there are better options than rushing through a tunnel

    Thought I post this on the Boxster Board though because I felt the need to praise the merits of our beloved Boxey again

    Well, returning to the original topic - the speed-nuts do the Ring of course on a Sunday morning

    It's still dangerous, but at least you don't put byciclists or pedestrians at risk.

    I'm still a Ring-Rookie myself (after 7 weekend "sessions" only) but it's getting better all the time - meanwhile I can feel the flow of the track and I even "smoked" some Carreras last Sunday

    Though the fun is not only about lapping the Ring, it's just great to meet up with the other addicted pistonheads (met-up with some 10 buddies, most of them driving all kind of P-cars - from 986 Boxster to 997 GT3), some of them still Rookies just like myself, some of them with > 1,000 laps under their belt.
    It's wonderful if you join each other for a "taxi lap" as a passenger, so that you can see the differences in the cars and driver's skills/track experience

    After my own laps I had the joy of being passenger in the 987S of a very experienced Ringer, who took some legs of the lap at (seemingly) crazy speed. The strange thing was, that his car was equipped with the stock suspension and it felt definitely more predictable/confidence inspiring than my PASM car. Maybe his car showed a bit more body roll, but in return it would not "jump" now and then like my own car. I never do the Ring in the PASM sport mode, but even in Normal mode the shock absorbers feel a bit too "stiff" in some corners (due to the adaptive nature of the system).

    Though I never felt really uneasy with the PASM, the taxi lap in the car with the stock suspension was an eye opener.

    Then I had the chance to enjoy some taxi laps with a buddy who equipped his car with an aftermarket suspension (I can't recall all the details, because it's really highly customized and even uses some parts from the GT3). The car felt fantastic - it sounds like a contradiction, but it felt more comfortable and better planted at the same time He also equipped his car with the PSE recently, which added to the experience on the track

    Bottom line: in the hands of an experienced Ring-driver the BoxsterS is really a "competitive" toy (south of GT3/Z06 and similar "weapons"), even more so with an optimized suspension. Actually the only legs where you miss "something" (read: more HP ) is on some uphill legs.
    There are very very few corners where you feel the cab-structure to be a disadvantage compared to a coupé.

    So here is what the speed-addicted Germans really do on a Sunday morning: o.k. I'm looking a bit pale as if I can't endure my own driving style

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germany

    A remarkable scene last Sunday: the GT3 RS blocked the Ring-Mini for quite some time, because he just couldn't stand to get "smoked" by a Mini

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germany

    Some nice cars to watch...

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    Great stuff! Is your car color Seal? That color looks killer!

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    Interseting comments about PASM and stock suspension - when i recently did a Porsche dealer run track day the stock suspended and 18" wheel set-up , whilst leanign slightly more in the harderc orners, was certianly a lot more planted and less susceptible to mid corner bumps and uneven braking areas than both cars i tried with PASM and 19s

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    I'm curious on your PASM set-up are you running with 18's or 19's. I have found the 18's run much better with PASM then 19's. Great pics by the way. One day I will get my one lap.

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germany

    PJ,

    you look better and better each time I see a picture of you... and your car.

    Nice to hear you enjoyed the trip. It is always a blast to go to the Ring, looking forward to join you next time again!

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    [beep], thats the most irresponcible behaviour.. there could be kids on bikes and planes and [beep].. dude use your head..

    haha just joking.. i love your boxster, best colour.

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    @ dr.j & Atzporsche: thanks for the nice compliments re the colour - yes, it's Sealgrey indeed. I still love this colour, because it makes for a sporty and elegant appearance at the same time

    @ Percymon & Paralizer: IMO the tire size (18" vs. 19") has less influence than the suspension (stock vs. PASM). To avoid any misunderstandings I might add that I wouldn't hesitate to get the PASM again. It works very fine on public roads (even when you go for a "spirited" spin) and I also like it on smooth tracks. The perfect set-up for the Ring (bumps, various surfaces, compression etc.) is a science on it's own. Some Ring-Junkies have equipped their cars with a special Ring set-up and they claim, that it's perfect for this one track but useless anywhere else

    @ Ferdie: guess I need a sunbath to get a more healthy colour - no wonder I'm looking that pale after this rainy "summer"

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    Interesting reading Porsche-Jeck. What are the range of lap-times you and other 987S drivers are achieving? Porsche's "published" time for the 3.2 987S is 8:18 so I'd be curious what capable non-professionals, are running versus a factory driver with what I would assume to be alot of 'Ring experience.

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    Quote:
    percymon said:
    Interseting comments about PASM and stock suspension - when i recently did a Porsche dealer run track day the stock suspended and 18" wheel set-up , whilst leanign slightly more in the harderc orners, was certianly a lot more planted and less susceptible to mid corner bumps and uneven braking areas than both cars i tried with PASM and 19s


    Interesting indeed, and I agree.
    Shame, I got the PASM because I thought it would cope better with the bad roads round here. But my time in a stock suspended car showed that while there was more roll and dive, it was more predictable and composed on uneven surfaces. Next time...

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    The lap-times achieved during the so-called "Tourist Drives" are a hot topic . Why ? Because by law it's just a nice spin on an (unrestricted) toll-road, not a race
    Hence it's not allowed to race each other (overtaking is only allowed on the left side) or even to use a stopwatch (of course they can't force you to dismount your Sport Chrono ). For the same reason onboard cameras are not allowed.

    Of course the Ring-nuts still talk laptimes during the coffee breaks (not me of course ).

    To give you some idea at least: first you should consider that the times claimed by Porsche or Sportauto (8:23 for the 987 3.2 if I recall correctly) are achieved on the closed track, whereas during the Tourist Drives there is lot of traffic (especially on weekends) plus lot of yellow flags (quite high number of accidents )

    Second you don't do a full lap during the Tourist Drives (the gap compared to a full lap should be something like 20-30 sec).

    Third a reasonable driver won't drive at 10/10 during the Tourist Drives as there is no room for error at the Ring (it's not like a GP circuit with huge gravel areas - there is only the armco to stop you )

    Fourth you need some 50 laps or so before you really know what you're doing.

    Having said all this I think a very skilled driver (but still not a "ring pro") might achive a time 30-40 sec slower than the Sportauto-times if the conditions would be equal (no traffic etc.). In traffic you have to add as much as another minute or 90 sec. (depending how "light" the traffic is).

    Perhaps the GLP-series and their rules are a good example about the times if you drive sporty, but not at 10/10.
    GLP is a series for hobby-racers with streetlegal cars. To not make it an official "race" with all the legal consequences attached to such status, it's designed as a "constancy run", meaning that you set a time and try to achieve exactly the same time during the following laps.
    Of course laptimes vary from car to car big time, as you can see a small VW Polo and a mighty GT3 driving in the same "class".
    The rules say you will be disqualified if you either achieve a time < 10 min. or > 15 min (that's for a full lap)

    Re my own "achievements": like I said I'm still a rookie waiting to complete my first 50 laps
    Having said that I'm sure I would end up closer to the 10 min than to the 15 min GLP-threshold

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    Totally envious about your ring experiences!

    On PASM, if I were to do it again, I just won't order it, makes the car a bit more distant to the road and a bit less natural and more subdued feedback. Didn't know until I tried my friend's Cayman S with stock suspension, it actually feels better to the avid driver. Anyway I can never use the PASM sport mode in the street.

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    The Nuerburgring laptimes are food for pub conversation. The more you get into the subject the more you realize that there are more important things to talk or think about. The fact that one can improve its driving skills and track knowledge for quite some time before attacking Porsche's factory laptimes for example. In fact I would love to book a trackday on the Nordschleife. Let's put it on the list for next year...

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    I still love this colour, because it makes for a sporty and elegant appearance at the same time



    I absolutely agree with you. It is a shame they dropped it out of the current colour palette. Anyways it makes your car a much more individual object.

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    The Nuerburgring laptimes are food for pub conversation.



    I completely agree with you, even if some endless threads on Rennteam sometimes create the impression that a couple of seconds difference is a whole world

    As for the to-do-list for next year: yes, I will definitely go for it also, maybe we can join the same course It will be even better, if you would show up in a Ringtool from Zuffenhausen until then

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    [...] even better, if you would show up in a Ringtool from Zuffenhausen until then



    I'll do my best! So I have to skip the and the once in a while, eh?

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germany

    Just spotted this thread , Achim ...

    Great read and pics , bud , you sure no how to enjoy yourself , awesome fun .....

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germany

    PJ, did your friend/aquaintance have a Manthey Racing suspension? Sounds like it.
    Manthey told me their suspension would make my car handle a lot better, while still being just as comfortable as a standard suspension.

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germany

    Hi Doc, like said before it's a highly customized set-up.

    Here are some of the main "ingredients": PSS9 (Bilstein), Uniball joints + (modified) adjustable wishbones from the Cup-Carrera

    I'm not an expert in these things, all I can say is that the car handles/feels great. Of course the P-warranty is void now with these kind of modifications. My buddy did the mods some 14 months ago and did not experience any problems since then. Maybe I should add that he (unlike me) is a professional car-tech expert himself, so he knows what/how to talk to the mechanics/engineers.

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:

    I'll do my best! So I have to skip the and the once in a while, eh?



    That's a small sacrifice - once you have the P you will drink mineral water only anyway and enjoy the P's magnetic effect on the chicks

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    PJ, people tell me that Manthey Racing makes the absolute best aftermarket suspension for Porsche, mainly because thay are Porsche's official rennsport partner. I was getting the PSS9 until I heard of Manthey and their products.
    Forst u send them info about ur driving style, experience, car use etc, then they either ship the parts to your preferred mechanic or u go to NBR and they fit and test your car for a day, to make sure it fits ur specs and needs.
    Me likes!

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    Very cool pics and post, as per usual, PJ!

    WOW, your car looks great!!! And it's awesome to see you're still smiling even after many months with your beloved P-car.

    Perhaps travel south for some sunshine.


    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    @ Richard - thanx for the nice comments, bud I appreciate it

    @ Doc: Yes, Manthey certainly know what their stuff (especially when it comes to special Ring mods in the suspension department).

    BTW I somehow have to correct my impressions with the PASM on the Ring
    Last Wednesday I did 10 laps (wifey was checking the tires when I returned home ) and I played a little with PASM (normal/sports) and tire pressure.
    On my very first laps on the Ring (6 months ago) I felt better with the PASM normal mode, but now I changed my opinion I guess it's simply because I'm becoming more familiar with the track. Hence any additional "communication" provided by the stiffer dampers are welcomed now, whereas for the very first laps it was just disturbing (my mental capacity was 100% absorbed by figuring whether the next corner would be a left or a right one ). Meanwhile I'm much more relaxed and actually feel more secure with the sports mode.
    In order to doublecheck my impressions I invited two guys who know their stuff (both the Ring and P-cars/sportscars) for some taxi-laps and they gave a big thumbs up One was comparing it with the sports suspension in the 986 and commented that the PASM in sports mode feels way better.
    Now the only remaining problem are the tires. Everytime I try to follow the guys with their Semi-equipped cars it's big fun, but it's also a torture for the Michelins...
    Though what I love about the Ring is that due to it's layout understeer is no problem at all (unlike I experienced it on a smooth racetrack with lots of sharp/narrow corners and hairpins).

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    I pictures of the Ring I have seen over the years there is what looks like graffiti on the road, just like your second picture.

    What is that?

    Re: What we really do on a Sunday morning in Germa

    Quote:
    Tool Pants said:
    I pictures of the Ring I have seen over the years there is what looks like graffiti on the road, just like your second picture.

    What is that?



    It's graffiti.

    You see the same on French alpine roads after the Tour de France.
    Fans write messages onto the road surface to urge on their favored riders. Like they are going to be bored enough to read them.

     
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