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    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    reginos:. Alonso was a bad loser. He was gesturing at Petrov who was racing for himself (and Renault perhaps) and never went near SW to shake his hand...

    In all I am happy with this year's result. Makes up from the MS disappointment.

    I'm also glad Ferrari manipulations and Machiavellian tactics haven't paid off.

     

     

    FULL ACK


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    reginos:


    ... Horner .... sold Ferrari a dummy with the pit stop and threw their race out of rails. 

     
    AFAIK this isn't correct reginos. On the BBC TV coverage, they played the radio conversation between Webber and his engineer. Webber was complaining that his rear tyres had completely gone due to graining - that's why Webber pitted so early. He wasn't coming in early just to bluff Ferrari into a tactical error.

    Also, Webber started the race on the tyres that he did his fastest lap on during qualification. Unfortunately, he had done a lot of laps on those tyres already.

    Also, Webber just missed the armco with his front right tyre but his rear right tyre did hit the armco. There was even a spark on contact with the metal. I'm sure Webber was worried for some laps about a possible tyre failure - so it must have been playing on his mind - so it doesn't surprise me that he came in also as a precaution.

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    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    ResB:

    Well Done SV, a superb drive.  No-one can doubt his ability but the team needs to work on his personality. ;)  Again, impressive season SV.

    What was amusing was FA having a pop at Vitaly Petrov at the end of the race.  Good to see FA hasn't changed and the world doesn't revolve round him.

    All in all a great season and I'm sure it has attracted back a huge number of followers.  Just eager to see next season start now and with MW in the RBR team next year, can he do it next time?  Not sure but it'll be great to watch I'm sure.  

     
    Yeah, it was so funny listening to SV crying, whimpering etc on the radio to his engineer. He's still going to mature ...

    It was really out of order for Alonso to complain to Petrov while they were driving alongside each other. The guy was racing for position because he is racing to stay in F1.

    Mark Webber has said that he will race for RBR next season but I expect him to have a pretty miserable time next year. His car was consistent all year and that was what kept him in contention (in the Drivers' Title) against Vettel who was much quicker throughout the year (especially in qualification) but who lost too many points through errors and mechanical failures.

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    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    easy_rider911:
    reginos:


    ... Horner .... sold Ferrari a dummy with the pit stop and threw their race out of rails. 

     
    AFAIK this isn't correct reginos. On the BBC TV coverage, they played the radio conversation between Webber and his engineer. Webber was complaining that his rear tyres had completely gone due to graining - that's why Webber pitted so early. He wasn't coming in early just to bluff Ferrari into a tactical error.

    Also, Webber started the race on the tyres that he did his fastest lap on during qualification. Unfortunately, he had done a lot of laps on those tyres already.

    Also, Webber just missed the armco with his front right tyre but his rear right tyre did hit the armco. There was even a spark on contact with the metal. I'm sure Webber was worried for some laps about a possible tyre failure - so it must have been playing on his mind - so it doesn't surprise me that he came in also as a precaution.
     


     

    Even so, do you think Ferrari had to pit just after Webber? 


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    Ferrari's tactical error was to pit Alonso immediately after Massa. They should have waited to see what happened to Massa before deciding if it was a good move.

    With hindsight, the supersoft tyres grained but then recovered after the graining period. That's why Vettel, Hamilton and Button stayed ahead of the group that pitted early during the safety car period. 


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    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    easy_rider911:
    ResB:

    Well Done SV, a superb drive.  No-one can doubt his ability but the team needs to work on his personality. ;)  Again, impressive season SV.

    What was amusing was FA having a pop at Vitaly Petrov at the end of the race.  Good to see FA hasn't changed and the world doesn't revolve round him.

    All in all a great season and I'm sure it has attracted back a huge number of followers.  Just eager to see next season start now and with MW in the RBR team next year, can he do it next time?  Not sure but it'll be great to watch I'm sure.  

     
    Yeah, it was so funny listening to SV crying, whimpering etc on the radio to his engineer. He's still going to mature ...

    It was really out of order for Alonso to complain to Petrov while they were driving alongside each other. The guy was racing for position because he is racing to stay in F1.

    Mark Webber has said that he will race for RBR next season but I expect him to have a pretty miserable time next year. His car was consistent all year and that was what kept him in contention (in the Drivers' Title) against Vettel who was much quicker throughout the year (especially in qualification) but who lost too many points through errors and mechanical failures.
     

    IMO we'll see the best of SV in the coming seasons. He maybe immature as the very young person that he is expected to be but he radiates genuity and freshness that few in F1 do.  I enjoy listening to his interviews post race very much.
     

    For all of us who witnessed his drive to victory in Monza in the wet with the inferior Torro Rosso it was obvious that a star was being born in the mould of Senna and Schumacher. He is not just a brilliant driver but also a rare talent in F1.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    Congrats to Vettel, awesome drive and fully deserved the championship..Can not wait for the start of the 2011 season because Vett is going to be bubbling with confidence, the others better not let him get an early lead, thats for sure.

    Also, do not write Webber off as many of you have done, by pushing Vett at times this season he has clearly improved as a driver and not because of the RBR imo..

    Regarding Ferrari today, well, they just focused on the Red Bull's which was a big mistake. As I wrote on this or another thread, everyone will be going for it being it's the last race and Petrov who had lot's to prove proved a huge headache for Alonso.

    Roll on 2011 F1 ..


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

     Ferrari just made a very bad strategic move. Nothing to do with RBR trying to sacrifice Webber in order to ''maybe'' have Alonso fall into a ''trap''.  Too mayn uncertainty there to be an smart move to make. Too many things to loose for RBR.

    RBR is not Ferrari, even if they surely are not saints, but we must recognize that not many teams ( exept maybe Mac -Laren) have given equal opportunities to both drivers, specially in this setting. 

    Webber lost during qualifications. Alonso tried to calculate too much , his team then rolled the dice by having this early pit stop. A very bad decision.

    I understand Alonso being very frustrated against Petrov, even if Petrov did exactly what he had to do : race . We know the character of Alonso ( king baby : he does not understand and accept that everybody does not move out of his way ) . That's why he pointed at Petrov. It was just a reaction.


    --

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    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    YES YES YES YES YES YES GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO VETTEL .

    Fantastic Race! Fantastic Season.

    Sebastian Vettel is the new world champion, and the youngest in history i may add.

    Best season of F1 ever.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    Martin Whitmarsh, McLaren team principal

    "three most recent world champions, standing shoulder to shoulder, and I’m glad to say that two of them were in Vodafone McLaren Mercedes colours." 


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    I'm so happy that he won the championship at the end! He was so unlucky at the beginning of the season and on the other hand he had the most pole positions and proofed that he can be fast! So congrats and happy that he made it!

    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    Atzporsche:

    Martin Whitmarsh, McLaren team principal

    "three most recent world champions, standing shoulder to shoulder, and I’m glad to say that two of them were in Vodafone McLaren Mercedes colours." 


    Martin is making what is supose to do.

    Very glad Vettel made it, he sure well deserve it Smiley

    J.Seven


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    My favorite picture of this season....

    alonso.jpg


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    Why nobody ordered Petrov to move out of the way of the Radio Scuderia Ferrari?

    Joking aside, I'm verry happy, that this great season wasn't ruined by the points gifted to Radiofonso...

    Well done SV!


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    Congratulations SV, a well deserved title, especially by red bull and their superb engineering team.
    Alonso made himself look like a bad loser by gesturing petrov. But let's not forget, Vettel too had his anger moments.


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    Boyko23:

    Why nobody ordered Petrov to move out of the way of the Radio Scuderia Ferrari?

     

     Ferrari should have offered him Massa's seat on the Pitboard! Smiley


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    Hulkenberg out from Williams.


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    Spyderidol:

    Hulkenberg out from Williams.


    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88301

    If I were Mercedes, I would recruit him. As a test driver with the prospect of replacing MS.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    So would I! - I hope Porsche is keeping an eye on this young man.


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    Webber was lost in mediocrity yesterday justifying Matteschitz and other people who "put their money"  on star driver Vettel. Webber simply choked at the big Final and could not rise to the occasion.

    For me Webber is a useful driver who can only shine briefly in a top car. Something like Eddie Irvine or Rubens Barichello in their Ferrari days.  

    Next season MW with have the number 2 on his car to coincide with his status inside the team.


    --
     

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    Overall race result:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/results/8499393.stm

    Overall point standings in the 2010 Drivers' Chmapionship and the Constructors' Championship

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/standings/default.stm


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    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    BBC's Martin Brundle's view:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9189316.stm

    BBC's Andrew Benson's blog:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2010/11/vettel_keeps_cool_to_fulfil_de.html

    James Allen's blog:

    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/11/how-did-ferrari-make-that-strategy-mistake-with-alonso/

    Alonso refuses to blame strategy error

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9188316.stm


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    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    I found it surreal watching Alonso cover the threat from Webber. Webber was pitting unusually early due to a rear tyre problem. He needed the rest of the race to try to recover the situation (caused by his early tyre stop). There was IMHO absolutely no need for Ferrari to cover him.

    Reading Andrew Benson's blog, he wrote exactly what I was planning to say. Alonso sacrificed track position and his own strategy in order to cover the unscheduled stop of Webber. It made no sense to me.

    Massa was going fine and Ferrari made him pit early first. But Webber exited the pit lane ahead of Massa. So Massa was sacrificed for nothing. Then, instead of waiting to see what the situation was like, Ferrari pitted Alonso the next lap.

    Ferrari consigned both their drivers to being stuck in traffic.

    The mistake Alonso made was that he stopped driving his own race with his own strategy and he instead focussed on what other people are doing.

    IMO problems can develop when drivers stop trying to just be the out-and-out fastest car but instead try driving for a particular position in the race result. Alonso should have stayed behind Button in 5th place and then tried to overtake Button in the pitstops.

    So what outcome do we have? A very fast but still incomplete driver who happened to be in the fastest car won the title. But, as Andrew Benson said, Vettel has yet to prove himself as someone who can overtake people and work his way through the field. He is a frontrunner who likes a clear track so that he can put in fast laps. He still has much to learn. Remember how Vettel kept trying to drive others off the road on the grid at the start of the races where he had a slow start. And how Vettel drove into Webber's car and into Button's car.

    Personally, I would have wanted another story to come true. You have a guy - who is difficult to like on a personal level - but who is a complete driver and he happens to be driving (perhaps) the second or third fastest car in F1 BUT through his own heroic effort he manages to beat guys who are less able than him but who are driving a car that is head and shoulders above every other car. That would have been a better fairytale ending IMO.

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    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    I don't know who Benson is, but I am puzzled he fails to see that Vettel has been the most authentic talent in F1 of the last 5 years and showed from the beginning that he was championship material.

    Alonso has what it takes to win more titles, for sure but not giving credit to Vettel's talent and his fantastic drives is I think  very unfair. However, some British writers are trying to belittle Vettel's achievement(like they did with MS) which i find very sad and biased.


    --
     

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    Ferrari hit back after criticism of F1 title failure

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    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    I have to agree with easy, Vettel is not a complete driver yet. He definitively is one of the fastest (if not the fastest) driver on a clean track without traffic. That's shows his huge talent, and makes him worthy for the title.

    But for a complete driver, there needs to be more: Consistency, cleverness, nerves, and the ability to win with an inferior car. Vettel hasn't shown us all of that yet.


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    IMHO FA & LH are far the best drivers out there, with JB, RK & NR only a few steps behind.

    SV is VERY fast leading a race or on a hot lap, but is not "such a killer" regarding overtaking as FA & especially LH!!

    MS is hard to judge, as he had very bad moments, but don't forget to remember, that he's G.O.A.T. and at the end of the season was pare with NR, who his known as one of the best & quickest drivers out there...

    MW is a very sympatic guy who's very quick, but unfortunatelly lost the mind games against SV, RedBull and especially against Dr. Helmut Marko, who's the biggest supporter of SV throughout the last years...

    Hopefully Ferrari, McLaren & Mercedes as well as Renault are getting their jobs done in the next weeks & months to come in order to challenge RBR for the best & quickest car.

    This year not the best driver overall but the fastets driver in the fastest car (SV vs. MW) won the title


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    Lord_Driftalot:

    This year not the best driver overall but the fastest driver in the fastest car ... won the title

     
    Exactly Smiley


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    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    easy_rider911:

    I found it surreal watching Alonso cover the threat from Webber. Webber was pitting unusually early due to a rear tyre problem. He needed the rest of the race to try to recover the situation (caused by his early tyre stop). There was IMHO absolutely no need for Ferrari to cover him.

    Reading Andrew Benson's blog, he wrote exactly what I was planning to say. Alonso sacrificed track position and his own strategy in order to cover the unscheduled stop of Webber. It made no sense to me.

    Massa was going fine and Ferrari made him pit early first. But Webber exited the pit lane ahead of Massa. So Massa was sacrificed for nothing. Then, instead of waiting to see what the situation was like, Ferrari pitted Alonso the next lap.

    Ferrari consigned both their drivers to being stuck in traffic.

    The mistake Alonso made was that he stopped driving his own race with his own strategy and he instead focussed on what other people are doing.

    IMO problems can develop when drivers stop trying to just be the out-and-out fastest car but instead try driving for a particular position in the race result. Alonso should have stayed behind Button in 5th place and then tried to overtake Button in the pitstops.

    So what outcome do we have? A very fast but still incomplete driver who happened to be in the fastest car won the title. But, as Andrew Benson said, Vettel has yet to prove himself as someone who can overtake people and work his way through the field. He is a frontrunner who likes a clear track so that he can put in fast laps. He still has much to learn. Remember how Vettel kept trying to drive others off the road on the grid at the start of the races where he had a slow start. And how Vettel drove into Webber's car and into Button's car.

    Personally, I would have wanted another story to come true. You have a guy - who is difficult to like on a personal level - but who is a complete driver and he happens to be driving (perhaps) the second or third fastest car in F1 BUT through his own heroic effort he manages to beat guys who are less able than him but who are driving a car that is head and shoulders above every other car. That would have been a better fairytale ending IMO.

     

     Easy,

    Although I completely agree with you when it comes to driving for a particular grid position, IMO you are missing the point as to why Ferrari decided to pit when they did. As far as I remember, the gap between Webber and Alonso on Webber's in-lap was about 1.5 - 2 seconds. Once Webber was on the soft tyres, he was lapping about 0.5s quicker than the rest of the field - at the time, it was clear that Alonso needed to react, or run the (substantial) risk of returning out of his normally scheduled pit stop behind Webber. With the benefit of hindsight that wouldn't have happened, but at the time, it was what Ferrari needed to do. Even Brundel agreed with Ferrari's decision at the time. 


    Re: 2010 Abu Dhabi F1 Grand Prix

    Ferrari ought to have sufficient info to work out that Webber would have been stuck behind the Torro Rosso and Renault, unless they guessed that the sponsor/engine ties would mean Webber being let through


     
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