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    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    Just an FYI about the NR. The original coupe, before it even got the 2013/2014 significant performance updates, did the same time as the GT3 RS on the NR while using Corsas I believe. I can only imagine a 650 Coupe on Trofeo Rs would be a decent bit quicker.

    30. McLaren MP4-12C Horst von Saurma 7:28.00 600 / 1434

    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    ALDO:
    pmarkow:
    ALDO:

    It is hard to say what benefits the Porsche has. Lower consumption. Lower price. Easier to find a parking slot. Getting in and out.

    The McLaren drives easier, smoother, faster and offers more comfort. With that car you can sit in and drive 500 km for a vacation. With the GT3RS no chance.The car offers such an incredible chassis at the same time so much comfort and no body roll regardless how fast you turn in. 

    well, i drove 1000km in one day in the GT3RS and had no complaints about comfort....i am not saying the macci is not more comfortable but ......

    The car is stiff and loud. This for 1.000 km - respect. My longest drive was 250 km to my destination and few hours later 250 km back. It was pure fun, Schwarzwaldhochstraße, but driving Autobahn with this car wasn´t a pleasure for me.

    the long highway drive in the GT3RS was ok, not really super-enjoyable. it was certainly less stressful in the 458 italia and surely in the 650. meanwhile i have been driving a lot on the very bad roads of umbria and lazio in the GT3RS and i got close to complaining about the damping (over potholes etc...). but last week i rented a car to drive to fiumicino (some kind of fiat...) and it turned out that the soft ride of the fiat was even more uncomfortable than the GT3RS. i'd love to have the 458 or the 650 for comparison purposes on the same roads...

    the 675LT was on my radar but i chickened out because of the mclaren depreciation issues but the maccis are surely great cars. 


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    ALDO:
    MKSGR:
    ALDO:
    MKSGR:
    RC:

    Markus, the 650S and the 675LT are very fast cars once they gain a bit of speed, they (especially the 675LT) basically annihilate everything moving out there at speeds over 160-180 kph. Only hypercars like the P1, the 918 or the LaFerrari are faster.

    I do not know how McLaren does that but I guess they have less thermodynamical issues than other car manufacturers. yes Or the just don't care about engine lifespan since many McLaren drivers won't probably drive more than 50k km with a single car...ever.  (just a wild guess though, I don't have a clue but McLaren cars are certainly beasts when it comes to high speed performance).

    But then: it depends on how one defines "annihilate"... Let's say: maybe 2-3s in case of 650s vs 991.2 turbo S (talking of 0-300kph) and maybe 4s in case of the 675LT. The delta is measurable for sure but maybe not enough to compensate, let's say for disadvantages on twisted roads/tracks. In particular as you can replicate the turbo s acceleration times under nearly all driving conditions... Just point and shoot Smiley

    The car inhalitates not from 0 but from 40 up. And this is remarkable. When you look at 0-300 times between 911 turbo and 650 and then think about the awd advantage for the start, the  you can imagine the rest.

    there is no disadvantages on twisty roads, the car has so much grip. Unbelievable for a rwd car.

    Not really - 0-200 is already like 0.5 to 1s faster in the 650s. I.e. between 200 and 300 there is just another second or two. Not so much to make a bigger difference Smiley Still measurable though.

    I would not be surprised if the 991.2 turbo s had very similar Supertest times (NBR and HHR) as the 650s... On PZero street tires...

    P.S.: I just re-read this Supertest review: 

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/supertest/supertest-mclaren-650s-spider-nuerburgring-und-hockenheim-9266605.html

    It seems to confirm some of the key statements (including yours) in this thread

    650 s

    kph 3.0 s
    0 - 120 kph 3.8 s
    0 - 130 kph 4.1 s
    0 - 140 kph 4.6 s
    0 - 180 kph 6.9 s
    0 - 200 kph 8.2 s
    0 - 250 kph 13.1 s
    0 - 300 kph 23.7 s

     

    991.2 turbo s

    0 - 100 kph 2.7 s
    0 - 120 kph 3.6 s
    0 - 130 kph 4.4 s
    0 - 140 kph 4.8 s
    0 - 160 kph 6.0 s
    0 - 180 kph 7.6 s
    0 - 200 kph 9.4 s
    0 - 250 kph 15.6 s
    0 - 300 kph 30.2 s

    To 100 turbo 0,3 faster, to 200 1,2 the 650 faster and to 300 6,5 seconds. 

    Maybe you can do some GPS runs? The official 0-300 number for the 650s Spider is 26.5s, i.e. I am not sure the above is what one should expect from customer cars:

    http://www.autobild.de/artikel/mclaren-650s-spider-genfer-autosalon-2014-4960987.html

    I did GPS runs on the 991.2 turbo s Cabriolet and ended up with 28-29s.

    Based on my data the delta would be approx. 1.5 to 2.5s for 0-300 Smiley 


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    ALDO:

    We can conclude that HHR suits better Gt3rs then 650s. Short track no long straights. GT3RS 1.08.05 and 650s 1.08.07! This is for both very impressive 

     

    Strangely enough, the same happened at NBR (see the above Sportauto tests). Also, Sportauto - when testing the early LT 675 - criticized a bit the setup (understeer due to more narrow front wheels). This is all a bit strange - also I only realize this now after doing some due diligence on reviews of the past Smiley


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    This 650s Coupe was about 26-27s as well (assuming a quite precise speedometer):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=878um9djzRw

     


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    noone1:

    Don't you know by now, MKSGR? RC lives and dies by 238-303 kph times. It's like the most important metric for him.

    Not true but on the Autobahn, 200-3xx kph performance counts, you cannot deny that.

    I considered the 650S myself as well but didn't choose it for various reasons:

    1. Financial offer wasn't good enough

    2. There are only a few dealers and repair shops in Germany and if I drive outside Germany...good luck.Smiley

    3. The turbo engine sound isn't really my thing, neither is the (slight) turbo lag. 

    4. Way too flashy for my neighborhood, especially since there was a lot of bad blood already because of that 12C Spider I mentioned.

    If I would die by 238-303 kph Smiley times, I would have clearly chosen the McLaren. My R8 V10 Plus stands no chance against this car over 160-180 kph...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    MKSGR:

    This 650s Coupe was about 26-27s as well (assuming a quite precise speedometer):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=878um9djzRw

     

    Markus, my R8 V10 Plus does 0-300 kph in around 28-29 seconds and from 200 to 300 something, the 991.2 Turbo S falls back almost a car length, so I think the Turbo S is rather somewhere around 30 seconds or so from 0-300 kph. We haven't done any GPS measurements yet, no time but in the upper speed range over 250 kph, the R8 always moves away very slowly. Up to 250 kph or so, the difference is basically nonexistent , unless one of the cars is in the wind shadow of the other. Your cab could be in a very good shape but the car I drove "against" is actually a factory car, so... Smiley

    The McLaren 675LT is unbeatable in the 240 to 3xx kph speed range, you need a hypercar to stand a chance.

    The 650S is also very fast but like I said, the achilles heel of the 650S (and most other McLaren models, with the exception of the P1 and 675LT maybe) is the 0-160 kph performance.

    The achilles heel of the 991.2 Turbo S is the emotional part with the exhaust/engine sound and the outdated interior. Also Porsche changed the steering a little bit on the 991.2 version and made it worse, for whatever reasons.

    The achilles heel of the R8 V10 Plus is the sometimes jerky shifting behavior in auto S mode (Huracan sends it's regards) and the high fuel consumption (in average around 2 liters / 100 km more than Turbo S).

    None of the above cars is perfect but if I had to choose a do-it-all car, I would probably choose the 675LT Spider right now. Unfortunately, this car is completely out of my price range.

     


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    RC:
    MKSGR:

    This 650s Coupe was about 26-27s as well (assuming a quite precise speedometer):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=878um9djzRw

     

    Markus, my R8 V10 Plus does 0-300 kph in around 28-29 seconds and from 200 to 300 something, the 991.2 Turbo S falls back almost a car length, so I think the Turbo S is rather somewhere around 30 seconds or so from 0-300 kph. We haven't done any GPS measurements yet, no time but in the upper speed range over 250 kph, the R8 always moves away very slowly. Up to 250 kph or so, the difference is basically nonexistent , unless one of the cars is in the wind shadow of the other. Your cab could be in a very good shape but the car I drove "against" is actually a factory car, so... Smiley

    The McLaren 675LT is unbeatable in the 240 to 3xx kph speed range, you need a hypercar to stand a chance.

    The 650S is also very fast but like I said, the achilles heel of the 650S (and most other McLaren models, with the exception of the P1 and 675LT maybe) is the 0-160 kph performance.

    The achilles heel of the 991.2 Turbo S is the emotional part with the exhaust/engine sound and the outdated interior.

    The achilles heel of the R8 V10 Plus is the sometimes jerky shifting behavior in auto S mode (Huracan sends it's regards) and the high fuel consumption (in average around 2 liters / 100 km more than Turbo S).

    None of the above cars is perfect but if I had to choose a do-it-all car, I would probably choose the 675LT Spider right now. Unfortunately, this car is completely out of my price range.

     

    Christian, the 28-29s I GPS measured myself on my own car... Thus, the numbers are based on a regular customer car of recent production. The other numbers above are all based on Sportauto. So there is little room for debate...


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    May I ask how you took the GPS measurement?


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    RC:

    May I ask how you took the GPS measurement?

    Twice, no significant height difference, but one direction only. Temperature was about 20C. Btw, there is a nice way to verify the performance even without GPS equipment: the "boost" function you can activate with the little button runs for exactly 20s. That means that (based on Speedo) 204-309 (which equals real 200-300 on my car) should be done 2-3s quicker than these 20s. This will then add up with about 9.5s for 0-200.

    BTW, if you tested your own car with 28-29s and found out that it is effectively the same speed as the 991.2 turbo s above 200kph (you mention that the difference was not even one car length) that is very consistent with my own GPS based test data. The difference in 0-300 times between cab and coupe was less than 1s with the pre-FL turbo - 0.5s between 0-200 and less than 0.5s abve 200kph...


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    Markus, I haven't measured my R8 yet, only test-drove it "against" a 991.2 Turbo S Coupe factory car (early production series) on the Autobahn quite a few times. The 28-29 seconds I mentioned are based on various published reviews and test figures. The Sportauto R8 review was kind of weird because the car had a miraculous power loss and achieved worse numbers than in any review I read so far. Sportauto re-tested the R8 in comparison with the Huracan and the 991.2 Turbo S and the numbers are much better.

    Yes, indeed...the difference between the new R8 V10 Plus and the 991.2 Turbo S is marginal and mostly in the upper speed range. Like I said before, from 200 to 300 kph around a car length, not more. 

    I suspect a different gearing ratio to be responsible for the slight performance advantage of the R8 in the higher speed range.

    Look at the speeds in the various gears:

    R8 V10 Plus

    r81s.jpg

     

    991.2 Turbo S
    1467882467295turbos1.jpg


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    RC:

    Markus, I haven't measured my R8 yet, only test-drove it "against" a 991.2 Turbo S Coupe factory car (early production series) on the Autobahn quite a few times. The 28-29 seconds I mentioned are based on various published reviews and test figures. The Sportauto R8 review was kind of weird because the car had a miraculous power loss and achieved worse numbers than in any review I read so far. Sportauto re-tested the R8 in comparison with the Huracan and the 991.2 Turbo S and the numbers are much better.

    Ah, I see Smiley The best thing is to wait for the Supertest of all the new cars (Audi, Porsche) maybe.

    If I am not wrong the following should provide a rough estimate: between 250 and 300kph a car covers approx 75m per second. That means (very roughly again) that a 2-3s difference (my speculation: 650s vs turbo s) should translate into approx. 150m-200m (which corresponds to like 4 times the distance between these white poles on the Autobahn). The difference to the LT675 would be more like 300m based on this Smiley


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    I know why the McLarens are so fast smiley

     

    Unknown.jpg
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    AM

     


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    heartindecision


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    angel  kiss So I guess you have a truck with fuel accompanying you? 

    BMW-5er-GT-BMW-Group-Innovationstage-Efficient-Dynamics-2015-Wasserstoff-Brenn.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    ALDO:

    I know why the McLarens are so fast smiley

     

    Unknown.jpg
    --

     

    AM

     

    OMG Smiley


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    IMG_8886.jpg
    IMG_8887.jpg
    IMG_8888.jpg
    IMG_8889.jpg
    IMG_8890.jpg
    IMG_8891.jpg
    IMG_8884.jpg
    IMG_8892.jpg
    IMG_8885.jpg
    IMG_8893.jpg

    My McLaren seen thru Prisma App!


    --

    AM


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    Ok, you are the new King of Overprocessing kissindecision


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    Greyish shot looks stunning !!


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    bluelines:

    Ok, you are the new King of Overprocessing kissindecision

    He just seems to love his car... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    bluelines:

    Ok, you are the new King of Overprocessing kissindecision

    I think that was a first for RT:  first impressions of a car where the emotional impact is expressed in purely visual terms....Smiley  (And to think of all those dozens of car reviewers who called the McLarens emotionless)


    --

     

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

     


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    4trac:
    bluelines:

    Ok, you are the new King of Overprocessing kissindecision

    I think that was a first for RT:  first impressions of a car where the emotional impact is expressed in purely visual terms....Smiley  (And to think of all those dozens of car reviewers who called the McLarens emotionless)


    --

     

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

     

    You should not be listening to those reviewers and actually try one and let urself be the judge, and I have seen many respected reviewers stated otherwise....  


    Re: McLaren 650s first impressions

    +1 kiss


     
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