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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Anything outside of the passenger cell is expendable in the name of energy absorption/dissipation. So I would not care about the state of the front/back; only the shape of the passenger cell. As Gnil wrote, McLaren have a very good safety record in this respect.


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    2019 911 GT3 RS,1964 Type 1


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Good to hear that your friend is ok kiss
     

    Aquaplaning is a nasty one. You have no chance. Been there, done that. My old 997 Turbo looked about the same after bouncing between a concrete barrier and side guard rail. I did not speed either. Just hit standing water at around 100km/h and the car rotated.


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    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I did some trainings with my Porsche. I still remember when my instructor (professional Le Mans driver) said “if there is heavy rain and you are faster than the trucks you are too fast”. You can’t control aquaplaning


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    TB993tt:

    Good to hear he was unharmed, so you know if he was he on regular tyres or Corsas/Trofeos ?

     

    Corsa. He is not crazy enough to run Trofeo with our frequent rain.


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    reginos:
    Whoopsy:

    Talking about the strength of the 12C platform:

    105499989_2539206096393084_4002725938579614344_o.jpg

    Yesterday my buddy hydroplaned while passing a semi on the highway, he wasn't even speeding. Spun out, hit the semi, bounced and hit the concrete divider, spun the other way and went off to the ditch off the side of the road and rolled a couple times. 

    He walked away unhurt. 

    And yes, that's a 675LT Spider.

    It is excellent that the person wasn't hurt kiss

    But should the platform have withstood the shock better than it did? I am not an accident expert and I am not sure I understood your comment.

     


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    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     

     

    The 12C platform is build around the carbon tub. That tub is hyper strong to protect the passenger cell. And this is the Spider also so the roof isn't an integral piece of the tub. All the stuff are bolted onto the tub and is designed to 'disintegrate' in an accident to absorb energy while leave the central tub intact. As you can see, my friend opened the door and walked out, that means the tub did it's job and maintained that passenger space.

     


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Simple physics: He spun, he bounced off, etc., this means that kinetic energy was reduced and the impact was relatively harmless. He was lucky. A tree or a concrete wall, suddenly stationary and things would have looked different.

    The car is indeed very sturdy but sturdy can sometimes also mean deadly. Not sure if McLaren does even crash tests? Would be interesting to see some test results.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    RC:

    Not sure if McLaren does even crash tests? Would be interesting to see some test results

    Don't know if you've seen this on the subject it's a good read.

    https://www.menshealth.com/technology-gear/a26990660/mclaren-supercar-crash-safety/


    --

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    2018 McLaren 720S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:
    reginos:
    Whoopsy:

    Talking about the strength of the 12C platform:

    105499989_2539206096393084_4002725938579614344_o.jpg

    Yesterday my buddy hydroplaned while passing a semi on the highway, he wasn't even speeding. Spun out, hit the semi, bounced and hit the concrete divider, spun the other way and went off to the ditch off the side of the road and rolled a couple times. 

    He walked away unhurt. 

    And yes, that's a 675LT Spider.

    It is excellent that the person wasn't hurt kiss

    But should the platform have withstood the shock better than it did? I am not an accident expert and I am not sure I understood your comment.

     


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     

     

    The 12C platform is build around the carbon tub. That tub is hyper strong to protect the passenger cell. And this is the Spider also so the roof isn't an integral piece of the tub. All the stuff are bolted onto the tub and is designed to 'disintegrate' in an accident to absorb energy while leave the central tub intact. As you can see, my friend opened the door and walked out, that means the tub did it's job and maintained that passenger space.

    Thank you very much for replying and clarifying.

    The carbon tub has proved a lifesaver in this case. Can we guess how a sports car with a conventional  structure would have fared under similar circumstances?

     


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:

    Talking about the strength of the 12C platform:

    105499989_2539206096393084_4002725938579614344_o.jpg

    Yesterday my buddy hydroplaned while passing a semi on the highway, he wasn't even speeding. Spun out, hit the semi, bounced and hit the concrete divider, spun the other way and went off to the ditch off the side of the road and rolled a couple times. 

    He walked away unhurt. 

    And yes, that's a 675LT Spider.

     

    With the right compound that should buff right out Smiley

     

    no but seriously, I’m only joking because he was lucky enough to walk away unharmed, happy to hear that. 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    The CGT is designed similarly. Collisions will easily buckle the exterior consuming the forces leaving  the carbon tub in tact. However, the design can not withstand a collision with an immovable object. 


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    When you're going through hell.....keep going.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    nberry:

    The CGT is designed similarly. Collisions will easily buckle the exterior consuming the forces leaving  the carbon tub in tact. However, the design can not withstand a collision with an immovable object. 

     

    You are correct, the tub has it's limits, actually more accurately, human's limit. Human can only withstand so many Gs, A carbon tub can be totally intact after a collision but the human inside may not survive. 

     

     


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    reginos:
     

    Thank you very much for replying and clarifying.

    The carbon tub has proved a lifesaver in this case. Can we guess how a sports car with a conventional  structure would have fared under similar circumstances?

     

     

    Well modern cars do have a safety standard they needed to built to, so in theory a unibody car shouldn't be any worse.

    In this particular case, while he wasn't speeding, luck was still on his side. he did hit the semi, but didn't go under it, that would have been bad. 

    Majority of the impact was done on the front end, strongest part of any car. The rollover did impacted the roof but the windshield frame withstood those and windshield frames are also another strong part of a modern car.

    Unlike metals, carbon structure do not bend, either they stay intact or they just shattered. If I remembered correctly what I was told when I visited McLaren factory, the explanation was that in a metal structure, say a unibody car, impact energy is absorbed in the localized region where the impact is, and the metal eventually deformed to absorb the energy and then break. In a carbon tub, and because of the molecular structure, the impact energy is not absorb in the localized region, but spread all over the structure, like a giant sponge. But if the energy is big enough to saturate the whole structure, the impact zone will shatter as the molecular bond is broken. Metal structure do that too but the energy transmission and absorption rate is much lower. 

    In this particular case, the speed involved isn't that great, so the energy involved probably won't bend up a metal body car that much and the passenger cell would still stay intact. 

    In a theoretical case where higher speed is involved, the carbon tub will probably still stay intact, but a metal one will likely suffer more, the windshield frame perhaps will collapse down, the front end of the passenger cell will likely would have crumble in, deforming the door frame enough that the door won't open. 

     


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    McLaren on not such a winning streak ATM: Not sure if this was already posted.

    https://www.drive.com.au/news/mclaren-secures-270-million-loan-report-123858.html?trackLink=SMH0


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:
    reginos:
     

    Thank you very much for replying and clarifying.

    The carbon tub has proved a lifesaver in this case. Can we guess how a sports car with a conventional  structure would have fared under similar circumstances?

     

     

    Well modern cars do have a safety standard they needed to built to, so in theory a unibody car shouldn't be any worse.

    In this particular case, while he wasn't speeding, luck was still on his side. he did hit the semi, but didn't go under it, that would have been bad. 

    Majority of the impact was done on the front end, strongest part of any car. The rollover did impacted the roof but the windshield frame withstood those and windshield frames are also another strong part of a modern car.

    Unlike metals, carbon structure do not bend, either they stay intact or they just shattered. If I remembered correctly what I was told when I visited McLaren factory, the explanation was that in a metal structure, say a unibody car, impact energy is absorbed in the localized region where the impact is, and the metal eventually deformed to absorb the energy and then break. In a carbon tub, and because of the molecular structure, the impact energy is not absorb in the localized region, but spread all over the structure, like a giant sponge. But if the energy is big enough to saturate the whole structure, the impact zone will shatter as the molecular bond is broken. Metal structure do that too but the energy transmission and absorption rate is much lower. 

    In this particular case, the speed involved isn't that great, so the energy involved probably won't bend up a metal body car that much and the passenger cell would still stay intact. 

    In a theoretical case where higher speed is involved, the carbon tub will probably still stay intact, but a metal one will likely suffer more, the windshield frame perhaps will collapse down, the front end of the passenger cell will likely would have crumble in, deforming the door frame enough that the door won't open. 

    All these very fast cars have good chances of crashing at 250+ km/h. At such speeds no one comes out alive, I'm afraid.

     


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    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    What is the script on the windshield? Is it his business?


    --

    When you're going through hell.....keep going.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    My daughter hydroplaned her first car on the highway and walked away from a total wreckage. Lucky for her. 
    As a parent teaching her to drive I failed her. It was a horrible rainstorm and the speed limit was irrelevant. Even half the speed would have been dangerous. In teaching her I failed to stress to her how important it is to first drive based on the conditions and not the speed limits. So simple yet a fatal mistake to to tell her that and make certain she understood. When whoopsy said his friend was not even speeding it brought back memories. Sounds like the exact same mistake. Glad he is okay. And it looks like a rental!


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    nberry:

    What is the script on the windshield? Is it his business?

     

    August Luxury Motors. A second hand car dealership in Kelowna BC own by a common friend. August runs a local community charity program and every year organizes a major car rally in the summer benefiting the local community. I believe his car still bear the stickers from the another charity he just did not long ago. 

     


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Good for him.kiss


    --

    When you're going through hell.....keep going.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Leawood911:

    My daughter hydroplaned her first car on the highway and walked away from a total wreckage. Lucky for her. 
    As a parent teaching her to drive I failed her. It was a horrible rainstorm and the speed limit was irrelevant. Even half the speed would have been dangerous. In teaching her I failed to stress to her how important it is to first drive based on the conditions and not the speed limits. So simple yet a fatal mistake to to tell her that and make certain she understood. When whoopsy said his friend was not even speeding it brought back memories. Sounds like the exact same mistake. Glad he is okay. And it looks like a rental!

    Glad she was OK, but this brings up another question. Can current TSLA products determine what a safe speed is under these circumstances, and if so, will it share that info with the driver now? It seems that if level 5 autonomy is nearly here, then maybe greater safety for human drivers could be achieved since many of the sensors and software should be available. I’m simply not familiar with any TSLA cars... Just curious...


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    mcdelaug:
    Leawood911:

    My daughter hydroplaned her first car on the highway and walked away from a total wreckage. Lucky for her. 
    As a parent teaching her to drive I failed her. It was a horrible rainstorm and the speed limit was irrelevant. Even half the speed would have been dangerous. In teaching her I failed to stress to her how important it is to first drive based on the conditions and not the speed limits. So simple yet a fatal mistake to to tell her that and make certain she understood. When whoopsy said his friend was not even speeding it brought back memories. Sounds like the exact same mistake. Glad he is okay. And it looks like a rental!

    Glad she was OK, but this brings up another question. Can current TSLA products determine what a safe speed is under these circumstances, and if so, will it share that info with the driver now? It seems that if level 5 autonomy is nearly here, then maybe greater safety for human drivers could be achieved since many of the sensors and software should be available. I’m simply not familiar with any TSLA cars... Just curious...

    I’m not certain about sharing with the driver but the car does see standing water and knows a great deal about conditions like temps etc. The way I see it ‘sharing’ is to intervene in such a way as to limit acceleration etc. It does a lot of active stuff even when not using any type of autopilot or cruise control. 
     Btw. Drove to Denver Friday and back Sunday. Hiked in Boulder Saturday and Sunday. Awesome scenery. Not like Austria but I will have to settle. 
    I enjoyed the two supercharger stops. Each about 30 minutes at level two. Keeps you totally away from gas station crowds during these pandemic days.  About 20% occupancy at the chargers we visited on a July 4th holiday weekend. 
    Most relaxing drive ever. The car drove 99% of the time with me holding the wheel and sightseeing.  I arrived fresh and rested after 10 hours total time.  I have driven that stretch dozens of times and always been exhausted in the past and let’s be clear - in not getting younger.  Also the cheapest drive there and back. 
    In the mountain the ICE cars can just watch in awe as the oxygen shrinks away. 
     


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    I think it’s great that the EV is giving you an experience you didn’t get with ICE. Texas is so hot in the summer... mountain hiking sounds nice.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Nothing like mountain air to clear your mind and lift your spirits. 

    Past ten days I have been mountain climbing in Vermont. We have a home there and the State has one of the lowest incidents of Covid. Unfortunately coming down from Mount Hunger, I slipped on wet rocks and fell several feet. Fortunately I was able to stop my fall but suffered severe skin shear on my forearm and some bad hip bruises. I’m bruised and battered but plan to tackle Mt Elmore in a couple of days.kiss


    --

    When you're going through hell.....keep going.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    1F2DCA49-EFCE-45EC-927E-FD886B21A90E.jpegnberry:

    Nothing like mountain air to clear your mind and lift your spirits. 

    Past ten days I have been mountain climbing in Vermont. We have a home there and the State has one of the lowest incidents of Covid. Unfortunately coming down from Mount Hunger, I slipped on wet rocks and fell several feet. Fortunately I was able to stop my fall but suffered severe skin shear on my forearm and some bad hip bruises. I’m bruised and battered but plan to tackle Mt Elmore in a couple of days.kiss

    I am so sorry to hear that Nick. I was wondering why we had not heard from you. Please be careful. I know that it is easier to fall and be injured than when we were younger.  And do not free climb like those two unfortunate girls who wound up needing assistance to get down.  Crazy girls. Of course I’m an old Austrian mountain goat so this was just good fun for me. 


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    nberry:

    Nothing like mountain air to clear your mind and lift your spirits. 

    Past ten days I have been mountain climbing in Vermont. We have a home there and the State has one of the lowest incidents of Covid. Unfortunately coming down from Mount Hunger, I slipped on wet rocks and fell several feet. Fortunately I was able to stop my fall but suffered severe skin shear on my forearm and some bad hip bruises. I’m bruised and battered but plan to tackle Mt Elmore in a couple of days.kiss

    Glad to hear you're OK Smiley, I know a couple of people who weren't that lucky.

    Be careful, this is supposed to be fun, so take it slow and enjoy spring/summer nature. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Thanks guy’s. My climbing incidents usually occur on the way down. It’s when you lose focus and fatigue sets in. Similar to driving a car at speed. Must NEVER lose focus. 


    --

    When you're going through hell.....keep going.


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    What is the script on the windshield? Is it his business?

     

    August Luxury Motors. A second hand car dealership in Kelowna BC own by a common friend. August runs a local community charity program and every year organizes a major car rally in the summer benefiting the local community. I believe his car still bear the stickers from the another charity he just did not long ago. 

     

    August the DDE sponsor?


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    wantone:
    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    What is the script on the windshield? Is it his business?

     

    August Luxury Motors. A second hand car dealership in Kelowna BC own by a common friend. August runs a local community charity program and every year organizes a major car rally in the summer benefiting the local community. I believe his car still bear the stickers from the another charity he just did not long ago. 

     

    August the DDE sponsor?

     

    Yup! Everyone is all buddy buddy with everyone here Smiley


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Have we seen you on a DDE vlog? Which one?


    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Nah, I am too low key for him haha


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    Re: McLaren on a winning streak

    Whoopsy:

    Nah, I am too low key for him haha

    You, low key? Smiley


    --

    1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS (sold) / 2011 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Performance / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2018 Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport


     
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