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    Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    OK, who's going to be the first person to post the numbers?!

    Given that Ferrari's first "good" F1 box came with the F430 3 (yes THREE) years ago, we should expect Porsche's PDK to be FASTER than this when changing gear, otherwise it will be a disappointment.


    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Well which model will you compare it to? The fastest I think is the Scuderia with 60 milliseconds. But now the California has a double-clutch transmission.

    The double clutch should be quicker than the Scuderia shift times otherwise its probably not so good..

    Just an opinion but considering Porsche owns a major stake in VW it should be very similiar to the DSG, so that's what? 30 milliseconds or quicker?

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    30 milliseconds?

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Quote:
    boytronic said:
    Given that Ferrari's first "good" F1 box came with the F430 3 (yes THREE) years ago, we should expect Porsche's PDK to be FASTER than this when changing gear, otherwise it will be a disappointment.





    SMG = Optimum speed.
    DSG/PDK = Top performance without compromising comfort.

    PDK isn't as rough making it more ideal for everyday driving. SMG and F1 type of gearboxes can be pretty jerky.

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Quote:
    SlvSurfer said:
    Well which model will you compare it to? The fastest I think is the Scuderia with 60 milliseconds. But now the California has a double-clutch transmission.

    The double clutch should be quicker than the Scuderia shift times otherwise its probably not so good..

    Just an opinion but considering Porsche owns a major stake in VW it should be very similiar to the DSG, so that's what? 30 milliseconds or quicker?



    Do you know Nissan GT-R shifting speed? 200ms...

    Do you know new Audi 7Speed S Tronic shifting speed(the one that will be in new S4)? 200ms...

    Do you know M3 M-DKG shifting speed? 160ms...

    All speeds are for complete shifting process...

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    The microsite is contradictory regarding PDK gear change speeds. In the video is says that one clutch opens within milliseconds while the other closes with a barely susceptible gear change.

    It then says, in the text that gear changes take place within a few hundredths of a second!!!

    Confused...

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    whats not to understand? "a few hundreths of a second" is "less than 30 milliseconds."

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Quote:
    davew (cincy) said:
    whats not to understand? "a few hundreths of a second" is "less than 30 milliseconds."



    What? One millisecond is one thousandth of a second. So it seems that it depends on what "a few" means.

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    If a few is 3 (as we say in the US) then a few hundredths of a second is exactly 30 milliseconds. 30/1000 = 3/100. I couldn't care less about a few hundredths of a second - these are just bragging rights for the engineers - I'm interested in PDK for comfort and control and I think it's something completely subjective that I'll only be able to comment about after a test drive.

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Hey, how many posts do I have to make before I get the "newbie" tag off my signature? :-) I've been reading this forum just about every day for a year or so and have resisted responding to topics with just a "yeah, I agree" comment just to bump my posts. BTW, I was previously "newboxsterowner" but changed my name to 911nut when I cancelled my boxster order and decided to wait for the FL 911.

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Quote:
    911nut said:
    Hey, how many posts do I have to make before I get the "newbie" tag off my signature? :-) I've been reading this forum just about every day for a year or so and have resisted responding to topics with just a "yeah, I agree" comment just to bump my posts. BTW, I was previously "newboxsterowner" but changed my name to 911nut when I cancelled my boxster order and decided to wait for the FL 911.


    good choice, you won't regret it...anyway you are still a NEWWWWBIEEEE

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    911nut (newbie) - welcome to the formum...

    just kidding... I resist posting too, and rarely add anything worthwhile even when I do... Plus, often I fear I look like a "think I know it all" [beep] alongside many humble experts...

    I love this discussion, and am REALLY looking forward to checking out the PDK and related interface - which I suspect will be a very satisfactory to me.

    I do think though that the time duration can matter toward safety, comfort, and performance. 200ms (0.2 sec) could add up to a significant difference in reall application - especially considering it is off-power time. Picture the Space Shuttle trying to climb with an engine thrust interruption every so often.

    Plus, The beauty of the paddle/button/whatever is that (especially on track) you will use the transmission more often - when you would otherwise not bother due to the more convoluted nature of the clutch/stick/one-hand-on-wheel transistion.

    I think at first many of us will miss the lurch of upshifting with a manual transmission during heavy accelleration, but in the long term, driving pleasure may evolve to focus on continuity of "pull" and engine breaking in lieu of (or in concert with) using the pads.

    For me, it all adds up to this - real world experience will make all the difference. And I hope Porsche's delay was to properly finish preparing a gormet meal.

    I have been patiently waiting for this.

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Quote:
    Modrocket_stereo said:
    30 milliseconds?



    VW DSG 8ms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbAK36cCBAc

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Quote:
    Misha011 said:
    VW DSG 8ms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbAK36cCBAc



    Lengthy shift time when shifting to a gear ratio which the transmission did not anticipate (around 400ms, depending on the situation);
    from the same wiki entry you posted

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    400ms (max) on unanticipated shift (by ECU) is still very very fast. Plus "unanticipated" shift to occure in real life is practicaly down to zero unless one drives in unanticipated manner.

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Quote:
    boytronic said:
    OK, who's going to be the first person to post the numbers?!

    Given that Ferrari's first "good" F1 box came with the F430 3 (yes THREE) years ago, we should expect Porsche's PDK to be FASTER than this when changing gear, otherwise it will be a disappointment.





    However good the Porsche PDK can be, it will be useless with paddle mounted on the wheel and not the column... This is not an F1 car...

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Thanks DaveW. You mentioned the track - I can't fathom the thought of taking my new baby and daily driver around the Portland raceway (Oregon). I suspect the newness wears off after a while and then one is ready to track the car and thrash on it a bit. I'll probably have to send my kid to community college if I get this car so the least I can do is take car of it for a while. I wonder if there are any good therapists on the West coast that specialize in helping new P car owners accelerate their transition to the track

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Quote:
    boytronic said:
    OK, who's going to be the first person to post the numbers?!

    Given that Ferrari's first "good" F1 box came with the F430 3 (yes THREE) years ago, we should expect Porsche's PDK to be FASTER than this when changing gear, otherwise it will be a disappointment.





    However good the Porsche PDK can be, it will be useless with paddle mounted on the wheel and not the column... This is not an F1 car...



    Well PDK is substitute for Tiptronic, so the buttons are quite logical. That doesn't mean that I their position.

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:

    However good the Porsche PDK can be, it will be useless with paddle mounted on the wheel and not the column... This is not an F1 car...



    PDK (like Tip) also + and - shifts from the lever:

    The Hillary Solution

    Quote:
    PDK (like Tip) also + and - shifts from the lever:



    Which in the breathtaking logic of Porsche is back-to-front...

    What we will likely discover of course is that this is the same gearbox configuration found in the Audi TT, a.k.a. the Hillary Solution.

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Quote:
    boytronic said:
    OK, who's going to be the first person to post the numbers?!

    Given that Ferrari's first "good" F1 box came with the F430 3 (yes THREE) years ago, we should expect Porsche's PDK to be FASTER than this when changing gear, otherwise it will be a disappointment.





    However good the Porsche PDK can be, it will be useless with paddle mounted on the wheel and not the column... This is not an F1 car...



    SciFrog it seems you have got a big issue with P-cars you have never made a positive compliment about these cars. Let me say something, I have driven all the Astons, from Vanquish to the Vantage and they are all CRAP! yes they look beautiful but the build quality is appaulling.The gear box is crap, the brakes are like biscuit and I've seen 2 DB9's catch fire at Milbrook (proving ground). Even the test car drivers confirm this also the best Aston cannot stand side by side with the best P-car, so pls give it a rest a bit

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    I have bought new and owned three P cars in the last 6 years, so I don't hate them... Just feels like something was always missing from the P lineup since 2005/6, when all other manufacturers were making huge progress every year, just for the sake of marketing and ultimate profits. Now they are catching up with the 997FL, but too late for me (and many other) who have looked at other cars and liked them. The 997TT cab was my dream car but too many small dissapointements made the dream go away.

    No car out there is perfect, Porsche Aston or Ferrari. Many have chosen a little less perfomance for other things (design, build quality, sound). That makes sense when you don't track cars and drive responsably on public highways (check the thread about sports cars in the "Sport Car" section). Brakes too weak? I don't see how that would happen here in the US on public roads...

    PS: I don't think DB9 should be tracked, V8 maybe...
    "Aston cannot stand side by side with the best P-car": not sure what you mean but the GT3 is a far superior track car than the Astons of course. The AMV8 competition however is the 997S which doesn't even have a dry sump pump.
    "The gear box is crap": Porsche makes great manual boxes, but they are on their way out anyway. But calling Aston boxes crap...

    DB9 vs 997TT: there is no possible comparaison between the two cars IMHO, especially in convertible form, they don't appeal to the same customers.

    Unlike you, I don't call the 997FL crap because of the stupid "puddles". Just voicing my opinion from first hand experience with other cars (until you can try the puddles). But I suspect 90% of 997 will have PDK and that 90% of these drivers will always drive in "D" because of the inconvenience of the puddles. Can't wait to see what Porsche will do with the PDK GT3...

    Anyway, I read and try to understand all opinions out there, that's why these forums are for IMHO, but what should we expect from someone whose sig is "The only car is a Porsche"...

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    All AM manuals(and Sportshift) are from Graziano. Touchtronic in DB9 is SOTA autobox from ZF.

    All Ferrari F1 boxes are from Graziano as well. New California use DCT from Getrag.

    Audi R8 and Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 use gearboxes from Graziano as well.

    Porsche 997 Turbo, GT2 and GT3 manuals are from Getrag. Old 997 manual was from Aisin...

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    sorry, but from what I've read so far, and especially in terms of being engaged, the scuderia's F1 is STILL the gear box to beat... the new PDK may be seemless, etc. etc. etc., but it seem to lack that "WHAAAM, BAAANG" feel to it! feels closer to VW's DSG than ferrari's F1...

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    I am telling that from the start. PDK is replacement for TIP(as Rossi also said). It is aimed to TIP costumers and tuned that way also. Yes, it is much closer in feel to VW DSG then to Ferrari F1 Superfast.
    Only in Sport Plus mode it is involving...

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    So the real question is where is Porsche anwser to Ferrari's F1 transmission? Because so far the PDK isn't.

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    So the real quetion is where is Porsche anwser to Ferrari's F1 transmission?



    Sequential manuals a la F1, Sportshift, e-gear, R Tronic or SMGIII are DEAD.

    DCT will replace them since most sequential manual costumers wanted excellent auto mode. That is the FACT.

    When I saw that DCT is standard in new California I knew it. Sequential manuals are DEAD.

    What is then the solution for true sportscar enthusiast?

    Pick one:
    Aston Martin DBS
    Aston Martin V8 Vantage
    Audi R8
    Audi R8 V10
    Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4
    Porsche 997.2 Carrera
    Porsche 997.2 Carrera S

    ALL manuals with NA engines...

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    They probably can tune the PDK for the TT and GT3...

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    They probably can tune the PDK for the TT and GT3...



    For TT for sure. For GT3? I am not so sure...

    Re: Porsche PDK vs Ferrari F1

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    They probably can tune the PDK for the TT and GT3...



    For TT for sure. For GT3? I am not so sure...


    I'm still dreaming of a 7 speed manual for the next GT3

     
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