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    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    bluelines:

    Watch out before you get banned...

    1458239858141backing-out-smiley.gif

    then I'll just join your new forum Smiley


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Targa Tim:
    RC:

     

     One reason I fully concentrate on driving when doing stuff like that, no talking, no listening to music ...

    Hey RC,

    other than no drinking alcohol, now no talking and no listening to music while driving.  I wonder what else I have been doing wrong all these years... Smiley

    don't get mad, you know I'm just joking with you.Smiley

    No sex with three girls Smiley

     


    --

    AM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    That is hitting below the belt


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Evo magazine March 2016

     

    1458321351985image.jpeg1458321393172image.jpeg1458321519717image.jpeg1458321591576image.jpeg1458321616642image.jpeg1458321646801image.jpeg1458321678928image.jpeg1458321700420image.jpeg


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    The media blitz for this highly limited edition, and unavailable to a select few of Porsche aficionados, is astonishing,  It's almost as if Porsche is trying to acknowledge that equipping the GT3 and GT3 RS with PDK exclusively was a mistake.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    "For me it's almost a spiritual experience driving the car..."

    its the R spirit and a special car for sur more than the look... angel


    --

    997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - 991 GT3 RS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    AP often makes many references to GT4.  Wonder why? :D


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    So it begs the question, why only 991 examples?


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    vantagesc:

    AP often makes many references to GT4.  Wonder why? :D

    GT4 almost immediately sold out based on the limited time to produce that model,  The GT3 was not as well received in some markets.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    vantagesc:

    AP often makes many references to GT4.  Wonder why? :D

    It is the only "not latest" model which is still his favorite GT model Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    With all due respect to AP and his product development ability (which is exemplary), I would like to draw the collective attention to the statements he had been making in 2011 upon release of RS 4.0 and the GT2 RS, as well as the statements he had been making as the 991.1 GT3 was introduced to the market - he is also a great marketing agent, with an acute ability to be 'on message', at the cost of contradicting himself as the time goes by.

    Each one of us will have formed her or his own opinion about AP and his statements, as well as about Porsche AG and the GT 'department' - I believe that we have been taken for a collective ride, Porsche and AP pulling at our emotional responses. Rational assessment would point to their credibility being lost.

    It could be that this had been the case all along, ever since the sixties and the first 911R gestation. In my rose tinted view, Porsche had seemed to have been a different kind of company.

    The 991 R is a lovely car, and my hat goes off to each and every one of the 991 owners - chapeau!

    Best, w


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    i do not know AP personally but he definitely reminds me of the classical breed of politicians, who would love to push the 'auto-delete-my-past-statements' with everything new they say. i wonder why none of the journalists point out the contradictions in his statements but probably they would never ever get another interview with him.

    this of course takes nothing away from the great porsche GT cars, it is just the presentation that sucks - if you listen closely.

    peter


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Yeah, AP really had to sell the PDK hard for the 991 GT3, even though I'm sure 75%+ of customers prefer PDK anyway.  He said PDK-S shifts so fast, you would miss any emotions.  Then GT4 came out, he championed manual as a return to emotional driving.  I suspect he personally prefers manual, but he has to represent the brand too.  

    When I visit the track and hear the 991 GT3 shifting so fast, it's hard for me to imagine the car as a manual though.  Have to admit.  I kind of like this division between GT4 and GT3.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    He do like manuals and enjoyed them, but PDK simply makes a car much faster. 

    For performance reason, PDK is a no brainer.

    But for those that don't care about speed but the manual labour of shifting, driving a manual car is a treat.

    2 different objectives.

    But, it's almost like car companies offering carburetor engines again fro those that treasure manual tuning the carburetor just to get a car to start and drive in the age of fuel injection. Almost unthinkable for a car company to go backwards. But it happened with Porsche.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Whoopsy:

    He do like manuals and enjoyed them, but PDK simply makes a car much faster. 

    For performance reason, PDK is a no brainer.

    But for those that don't care about speed but the manual labour of shifting, driving a manual car is a treat.

    2 different objectives.

    But, it's almost like car companies offering carburetor engines again fro those that treasure manual tuning the carburetor just to get a car to start and drive in the age of fuel injection. Almost unthinkable for a car company to go backwards. But it happened with Porsche.

     

    certainly going backward with technology - even if it is desirable for a certain range of customers - makes going forward with marketing difficult. this is precisely what we see in AP's recent statements. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Whoopsy:

    For performance reason, PDK is a no brainer.

    But for those that don't care about speed but the manual labour of shifting, driving a manual car is a treat.

    2 different objectives.

    There are some of us who enjoy driving fast AND enjoy doing it with a manual.  When I go to the track, I am generally driving against my own benchmarks (trying to set and improve my fastest lap time).  I also think it's much more fun and interesting to do so while shifting myself.

    So, what difference does it make it my laps would be 2 sec faster with PDK?  I'm trying to do my best driving (not set the course record which is MANY seconds faster than my best, done with a formula car).  There are always faster (and slower) cars at the track.  In fact, it's annoying to be much faster than the competition.  I find it more frustrating to be stuck behind someone who is slower, rather than let someone faster pass me.  Even with my manual GT4, I find the former happens much more than the latter at the local track (not so much at the Euro tracks Smiley ).

    Of course, having a car that is challenging is important, so a new MX-5 with manual (but 155hp only) does not ring all the bells of a GT4 or manual GT3 for me (or I could save a bunch of money)


    --

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    AP's job is to play to the crowd but there is always group of critics who don't like the tune so he changes the pitch or key as needed to sell the song. 


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Whoopsy:

    For performance reason, PDK is a no brainer.

    But for those that don't care about speed but the manual labour of shifting, driving a manual car is a treat.

     

    that's why I like Porsche so much, its lineup can completely satisfy all my driving needs - manual, PDK, rear drive, AWD, sport cars, sedan, and SUV in small and medium forms.Smiley

    waiting for Ferrari to re-introduce its magnificent manual shifter and my collection will complete.Smiley


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Targa Tim:

    waiting for Ferrari to re-introduce its magnificent manual shifter and my collection will complete.Smiley

    I really thought they would have by now.  Definitely some pent up demand...


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Ferrari seems to live in the future. No manual, no steel brakes. Porsche can sell a few more cars by reliving the past. Marketing team is in full force and AP helps them very

    Porsche doesn't make a single sport car I would buy today yet Ferrari has three (tdf fm California). 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Whoopsy:

    He do like manuals and enjoyed them, but PDK simply makes a car much faster. 

    For performance reason, PDK is a no brainer.

    But for those that don't care about speed but the manual labour of shifting, driving a manual car is a treat.

    2 different objectives.

    But, it's almost like car companies offering carburetor engines again fro those that treasure manual tuning the carburetor just to get a car to start and drive in the age of fuel injection. Almost unthinkable for a car company to go backwards. But it happened with Porsche.

     

    just think about your RS and how much of its performance you are actually able to use in the street.   Some drivers might want something to do in order to make it more engaging when driving under 7/10.  Performance gap on street is not really that noticeable in this context, especially with auto rev match. on track, no argument from me.  I've had dual clutch cars...there is a pleasure in the ease and being able to attack with full effort  

    But The carb analogy I don't get.  It's kind of like those golf balls that travel 400 yards with the crazy high tech cores. The point isn't to hit the ball farther. It's to enjoy the process of the golf game.  Now obviously people will derive diff enjoyment from diff challenges or lack thereof. 

    I still prefer PDK for gt3...suits that engine so well. I think the gt4 would be a bit boring with PDK.  Slower car so needs more sources of enjoyment than its performance alone. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    SciFrog:

    Ferrari seems to live in the future. No manual, no steel brakes. Porsche can sell a few more cars by reliving the past. Marketing team is in full force and AP helps them very

    Porsche doesn't make a single sport car I would buy today yet Ferrari has three (tdf fm California). 

    your are raising a very good point here. ferrari has a huge racing-related history and of course the mythos of enzo ferrari abounds but they are playing this very subtly, contrary to porsche. ferrari is deeply forward looking in technology and design, they play their retro design clues in a very subtle way. ferrari would have certainly dropped the rear engine concept long time ago, had they been in it. that is why i am very much looking forward to the 488GTO::::))))

    p


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Targa Tim:
     

    that's why I like Porsche so much, its lineup can completely satisfy all my driving needs - manual, PDK, rear drive, AWD, sport cars, sedan, and SUV in small and medium forms.Smiley

    waiting for Ferrari to re-introduce its magnificent manual shifter and my collection will complete.Smiley

    Ferrari owners are the reason for the demise of the manual transmission.

    Do you know how many of the current owners will end up being all over youtube ? Smiley

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8mYVlIAxnk

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    BiTurbo:
    Targa Tim:
     

    that's why I like Porsche so much, its lineup can completely satisfy all my driving needs - manual, PDK, rear drive, AWD, sport cars, sedan, and SUV in small and medium forms.Smiley

    waiting for Ferrari to re-introduce its magnificent manual shifter and my collection will complete.Smiley

    Ferrari owners are the reason for the demise of the manual transmission.

    Do you know how many of the current owners will end up being all over youtube ? Smiley

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8mYVlIAxnk

     

       Ferrari demise of manual transmission started several years ago. Take the 575M: between 2002 and 2005 out of a total production of about  2040 cars only about 240 were with manual transmission. The market demanded that and Ferrari just followed. Porsche was following too the market demand however years after. I recently heard that 9 out of 10 new 911s are PDK equipped. This is what mainstream customers want.  It is great that you can still spec a manual 911.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Will be interesting to see the split between manual and pdk on next GT3, if they offer both (manual didn't seem to keep many away from 911R)


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    After reading the article I could not help but think what a great marketeer AP is. He took the spare parts of the RS and GT3 and combined them with a few plastic parts and ended up with a slower car. To overcome possible backlash, he describes the car as being a purist car who are not interested in track performance or times but fun street driving. To make the car more attractive he limits its production to (Ahem) 991 units and sells it for $200,000. What a fabulous huckster.

    I have a couple of questions for AP. Where are you going to have fun on the street with 500hp and manual? If the car is all about purity and having fun wouldn't the GT4 for less than half the price be a better value? How about a Miata and other sport cars offering manual for substantially less money?

    Finally, he states the car is not an investor car but a car meant to be driven for the fun of it. If you truly believed that, why not give all Porsche enthusiast the opportunity to buy the car and price it down to its true value (the answer is he had limited left over spare parts from the GT3 and RS). Instead, there are 918 owners who will pony up the money and flip the car to some unsuspecting dimwit thinking he is buying a special Porsche.mail

    AP should go into the Hall of Fame film flam artist.kiss


    --

    Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    nberry:

    (the answer is he had limited left over spare parts from the GT3 and RS).

    Nick - if you know about the "Just in Time" production method, then you know it's absurd to think there were extra GT3/RS parts to build 1,000 R's.  Even if you take the cynical route that they used the recalled GT3 motors, this is impossible as the 4.0L motor used is different.


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Totally agree with nick analysis... It's all marketing. 

     

    Grant, the molds and programs for the parts already exists. Not the parts themselves... Same idea. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    SciFrog:

    Totally agree with nick analysis... It's all marketing. 

    Yes, it is marketing to a disenfranchised segment of Porsche customers who want a car like the R.  I don't see the problem.  You and Nick are not part of that demographic- so be it...


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016)

    Part of the gripe is the limited production and price. All the marketing about being a car to be driven goes out the window as soon as you limit number. In the USA they pretty much all go to 918 owners...


     
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