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    EVO reviews Panamera S

    http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/236773/porsche_panamera_s.html

     

    If you don't feel like reading the whole thing, this is what the reviewer says at the end.

     

    Dynamically, all is well then, but is it outstanding, a must-have experience? The optional air suspension (£1272) helps give the Panamera S an impressively broad ride-quality range, from limo cosseting to sports-saloon taut, and in this respect it bests rivals like the Quattroporte and Jaguar XFR. However, its clean, accurate handling and 400bhp shove don’t add up to a more thrilling experience when you just want to drive. And then you climb out of the marvellous four-seat cabin and you’re reminded how the Panamera looks. For me, that’s where it all falls flat. Only a mother could love it.


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    Ouch.   I do not care much about Evo since R. Meaden left for DR though.  What I care about is the feedback from actual owners here at Rennteam. 


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    Ron (Houston):Only a mother could love it.

    This is the best "in a phrase" description of the Panamera's looks, spot on! Smiley


    --


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    Another cutesy comment from a writer trying to show how clever he is.  Some call  it clever, I call it juvenile. 


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    Carlos from Spain:
    Ron (Houston):Only a mother could love it.

    This is the best "in a phrase" description of the Panamera's looks, spot on! Smiley

    I don't think so. What about the people who have already ordered the car, some here on rennteam.com? And what about those who have seen the car and wrote positive comments?

     


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    reginos:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Ron (Houston):Only a mother could love it.

    This is the best "in a phrase" description of the Panamera's looks, spot on! Smiley

    I don't think so. What about the people who have already ordered the car, some here on rennteam.com? And what about those who have seen the car and wrote positive comments?

     


    It's too early to comment. I think we will have to wait and see how well this car sells. If it's 20.000 a year as Porsche planned or a mere, let's say 8.000. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    Rossi:
    reginos:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Ron (Houston):Only a mother could love it.

    This is the best "in a phrase" description of the Panamera's looks, spot on! Smiley

    I don't think so. What about the people who have already ordered the car, some here on rennteam.com? And what about those who have seen the car and wrote positive comments?

     


    It's too early to comment. I think we will have to wait and see how well this car sells. If it's 20.000 a year as Porsche planned or a mere, let's say 8.000. Smiley
     

    The car might not sell as expected not because of its looks but because of its steep price especially if you include the essential extras and given the current economic environment. Also the real performer is the Turbo model which costs a huge amount of money compared to competent rivals from BMW and Mercedes.

    I don't rate any Porsche model as beautiful in the strict sense of the word and the Panamera falls in the same category of functional, purposeful designs. OTOH all Porsche designs age very well. A 997 Turbo, for example, is not a good looking car for someone who likes the style of Maserati or Aston Martin but still it sells very well and is a very acclaimed car.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    reginos:
    Rossi:
    reginos:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Ron (Houston):Only a mother could love it.

    This is the best "in a phrase" description of the Panamera's looks, spot on! Smiley

    I don't think so. What about the people who have already ordered the car, some here on rennteam.com? And what about those who have seen the car and wrote positive comments?

     


    It's too early to comment. I think we will have to wait and see how well this car sells. If it's 20.000 a year as Porsche planned or a mere, let's say 8.000. Smiley
     

    The car might not sell as expected not because of its looks but because of its steep price especially if you include the essential extras and given the current economic environment. Also the real performer is the Turbo model which costs a huge amount of money compared to competent rivals from BMW and Mercedes.

    I don't rate any Porsche model as beautiful in the strict sense of the word and the Panamera falls in the same category of functional, purposeful designs. OTOH all Porsche designs age very well. A 997 Turbo, for example, is not a good looking car for someone who likes the style of Maserati or Aston Martin but still it sells very well and is a very acclaimed car.

     


    It doesn't matter WHY a car is not selling well, all that matters is DOES it sell well or not. Smiley

    Looks, prices, option policy, economic crisis etc. all play together.

    I predicted 8.000 Panamera a year, so let's see who's right. Smiley
     

     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    Rossi:
    reginos:
    Rossi:
    reginos:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Ron (Houston):Only a mother could love it.

    This is the best "in a phrase" description of the Panamera's looks, spot on! Smiley

    I don't think so. What about the people who have already ordered the car, some here on rennteam.com? And what about those who have seen the car and wrote positive comments?

     


    It's too early to comment. I think we will have to wait and see how well this car sells. If it's 20.000 a year as Porsche planned or a mere, let's say 8.000. Smiley
     

    The car might not sell as expected not because of its looks but because of its steep price especially if you include the essential extras and given the current economic environment. Also the real performer is the Turbo model which costs a huge amount of money compared to competent rivals from BMW and Mercedes.

    I don't rate any Porsche model as beautiful in the strict sense of the word and the Panamera falls in the same category of functional, purposeful designs. OTOH all Porsche designs age very well. A 997 Turbo, for example, is not a good looking car for someone who likes the style of Maserati or Aston Martin but still it sells very well and is a very acclaimed car.

     


    It doesn't matter WHY a car is not selling well, all that matters is DOES it sell well or not. Smiley

    Looks, prices, option policy, economic crisis etc. all play together.

    I predicted 8.000 Panamera a year, so let's see who's right. Smiley
     

     

    It is different not to sell because it is a bad car and it is different that people don't have as much money as before to spend on cars. All car sales are down worldwide. This doesn't mean that buyers suddenly don't like the cars that were popular a year ago.

    Anyway this discussion is academic. If the target was set at 20.000 I expect this to be achieved by 50-55% in the first year of full production.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    I like your comment "only a mother can love it" :-)


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    Me too - it neatly describes people who will like it no matter what it looks like just because it's a Porsche


    --

    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    easy_rider911:

    Me too - it neatly describes people who will like it no matter what it looks like just because it's a Porsche

    I am not totally thrilled by the design but I don't think any car in this class is a sculpture on wheels, a rolling work of art. Think S-class, 7 series, Audi even the new XJ. They are all  designs with emphasis on having presence and even being imposing and grand rather than beautiful. The Panamera is in this mould and it looks sufficiently different too to have a unique character.

    So it is not as if the Panamera is an ugly duckling in a pond full of swans. We must be more objective in our assessments and not to jump on the criticism bandwagon like some journalists do.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    easy_rider911:

    Me too - it neatly describes people who will like it no matter what it looks like just because it's a Porsche

     

    Might be worth holding fire on the negativity unless/until you've seen the car in person as it may just surprise you Smiley  It is sufficiently different from any other car in it's class and has real prescence without being "shouty" which is important to most buyers in this segment. Like any other car on the road (997 included) spec it wrong and it'll look a turkey.


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    reginos:

    ... I don't think any car in this class is a sculpture on wheels. Think S-class, 7 series even the new XJ. They are all  designs with emphasis on being imposing and grand rather than beautiful.

    So it is not as if the Panamera is an ugly duckling in a pond full of swans. We must be more objective in our assessments and not to jump on the criticism bandwagon like some journalists do.


    Sorry - I don't agree. Finding something beautiful is IMO entirely subjective. How can one be more objective in one's assessment about a subjective process? Smiley 

    About rivals, I don't consider the S class, 7 series or XJ as competitors. Not only do they have a different shape/design but, more significantly, they are aimed at a different kind of buyer IMO.

    I think the pond I am describing has far fewer swans Smiley But I do like your metaphor Smiley

    I think the Panamera is up against cars like the AM Rapide, Bentley Continental GT... and, if I had to buy one of these kinds of car (which I don't), given the choice, I would pick a Rapide any day of the week.

    I for one am not jumping on any bandwagon - I'm not part of a herd and I'm not forming a hasty view - I'm carefully determining what my own view is and then expressing it Smiley

    Just my 2 cents Smiley


    --
     

    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    ISUK:

    Might be worth holding fire on the negativity unless/until you've seen the car in person as it may just surprise you Smiley  It is sufficiently different from any other car in it's class and has real prescence without being "shouty" which is important to most buyers in this segment. Like any other car on the road (997 included) spec it wrong and it'll look a turkey.

    I have had a short glimpse today and I am still not utterly convinced, especially after so many people told me that it looks much better in reality. Have seen the car driving as well, behind a 964 Speedster and the differences in size and proportions have still been surprising. Mind you, the first thing I noticed have been the LED driving lights, not the outstanding styling.

    Still I wouldn´t want to discourage anyone to buy that car, it´s just that I still cannot find the right opinion on that car...


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    ISUK:


    Might be worth holding fire on the negativity unless/until you've seen the car in person as it may just surprise you Smiley 


    In my case, I've never started liking the appearance of a car (after seeing it in person) if I have already formed a dislike for its appearance in photos, video clips etc. Smiley I see no reason why the Panamera will be an exception. Smiley

    Some people need to see a car in person - and I entirely respect that - others don't. We're all different in how we go about establishing whether or not we like or dislike a car or anything else Smiley

    Those people who like it and/or who have ordered one - that's great Smiley I'm very happy for them Smiley It appeals to them and beauty is entirely subjective Smiley But that won't change the way I feel about this car Smiley


    --

    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    easy_rider911:
    reginos:

    ... I don't think any car in this class is a sculpture on wheels. Think S-class, 7 series even the new XJ. They are all  designs with emphasis on being imposing and grand rather than beautiful.

    So it is not as if the Panamera is an ugly duckling in a pond full of swans. We must be more objective in our assessments and not to jump on the criticism bandwagon like some journalists do.


    Sorry - I don't agree. Finding something beautiful is IMO entirely subjective. How can one be more objective in one's assessment about a subjective process? Smiley 

    About rivals, I don't consider the S class, 7 series or XJ as competitors. Not only do they have a different shape/design but, more significantly, they are aimed at a different kind of buyer IMO.

    I think the pond I am describing has far fewer swans Smiley But I do like your metaphor Smiley

    I think the Panamera is up against cars like the AM Rapide, Bentley Continential GT... and, if I had to buy one of these kinds of car (which I don't), given the choice, I would pick a Rapide any day of the week.

    I for one am not jumping on any bandwagon - I'm not part of a herd and I'm not forming a hasty view - I'm carefully determining what my own view is and then expressing it Smiley

    Just my 2 cents Smiley

     

     The target market are 60% MB S-class, then BMW 7-, Audi A8, Masarati QP, Jaguar 2%, AM Rapide isn´t on the marketing slide from Porsche ;)

     

    I mean Porsche think that 60% of new Panamera owner have right now a MB S-class.

     


    --

    AM


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    That's interesting  I see the S class/A8/Lexus/XJ as cars for a company director (or an equivalent kind of job profile) who may have a family and who seeks luxury, quality and prestige. I see the BMW as a slightly more sporty alternative.

    I see the Panamera as having a much more sporty driving experience than those luxury limos.

    It's particularly interesting that you say PAG is targeting people who already have a S class. One reason is that those people may have been looking for a sportier 4 seater but they 'settled' for a more conservative limo instead because they couldn't find what they were looking for. Now that this niche market is being populated with more models (e.g. Panamera, Rapide etc), these people (who would have bought a Rapide, Panamera etc if it had been available) are now able to move away from the S class and buy the kind of car they really wanted all along.

    That's just my hypothesis - I could be wildly mistaken of course - but we'll see what happens as more people buy it...

    There is potentially a different thought process between existing owners of a luxury limo who gravitate away from that category towards a Panamera and another type of buyer who starts with a clean sheet i.e. not owning a car in either category. The buying thought process could be quite different since different emphasis may be placed on different factors...


    --
     

    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    easy_rider911:

    About rivals, I don't consider the S class, 7 series or XJ as competitors. Not only do they have a different shape/design but, more significantly, they are aimed at a different kind of buyer IMO.

     

    I think the Panamera is up against cars like the AM Rapide, Bentley Continental GT... and, if I had to buy one of these kinds of car (which I don't), given the choice, I would pick a Rapide any day of the week.


     

    No, no the real rivals are the luxury limousines (more their performance versions) from premium manufacturers I named above. That's where the competition will come from.

    The AM is a rival in theory only, just because both brands produce sportscars. The Rapide is an ultra expensive, limited production bijou car for people who want to make a statement. It is not a real world machine like the Porsche. The Bentley will be a rival to the Panamera Coupe that will follow the 4-door.

     


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

     If I recall, the same was said about the looks of the Cayenne. Nevertheless, it met and exceeded Porsche expectations. I am sure Porsche is banking on a similar experience with the Panamera. However, there is a problem with this thinking.

    SUV's need not be good looking. Performance matters. With luxury sedans looks are as important as performance. The Panamera competitors are all much better looking. Porsche better hope that its badge wins the day with prospective buyers.


    --

     


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    nberry:

     

    SUV's need not be good looking. Performance matters. With luxury sedans looks are as important as performance. The Panamera competitors are all much better looking. Porsche better hope that its badge wins the day with prospective buyers.

    None of the Panamera main competitors are gorgeous looking (BMW. Mercedes, Audi, new Jaguar) and the Panamera is not ugly, although it is not beautiful either. It just doesn't meet some people's expectations of how it should have looked. Now, Porsche like any other manufacturer cannot have a design-your-own department to meet everyone's expectations and tastes.

    Cars differ between them and there are no generally accepted norms as to how they should look. The styling of your (sold) Ferrari, for example,  is light years apart from a Porsche Turbo or a GT2. However, every one of these cars has its loyal buyers and they are all admired  by their respective fans. The same type of following will formed for the Panamera. Unfortunately, due to the recession it won't meet its sales targets rightaway.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    Though I concede that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I'm surprised to hear it said (by Rossi) that no Porsche is beautiful. I don't think I'm alone in judging the 911 a stunning design that has only gotten better over time.

    And, just as with women, where some seem pretty universally appreciated for their beauty (think Angelina Jolie, Halle Berry, Penelope Cruz....), in cars too, most Aston Martins and many Ferraris and maybe the 911, fall into that category, I think it fair to say.

    On the other hand, may I suggest, the Panamera would fall into the category of one's wife, who unless one is very, very, very fortunate is someone who although one personally, hopefully, finds most attractive - she is probably not going to be judged so quite so universally!

    Not yet having seen the Panamera in person, I am not yet qualified to judge if it looks better in actuality, but in photos it looks, permit me to say, butt ugly! No harmony, no flow, no sensuality.

    I myself, having now abandoned the idea of a Panamera (pending direct visual inspection), am much taken with the idea of the next generation M6, based on stunning renderings recently published of the next 6-Series and a desire for four full seats in my next car.


    --
    997 C4S FL


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    I like Panamera , as you all know  - but , this two small tweaks  ( 5th door and rear light )   Smiley  ...  and I like it even more

    turbo orig & Misha.JPG


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    Misha011:

    I like Panamera , as you all know...


    Hey Misha, I would have NEVER figured out before you told us. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    reginos:
    easy_rider911:

    About rivals, I don't consider the S class, 7 series or XJ as competitors. Not only do they have a different shape/design but, more significantly, they are aimed at a different kind of buyer IMO.

     

    I think the Panamera is up against cars like the AM Rapide, Bentley Continental GT... and, if I had to buy one of these kinds of car (which I don't), given the choice, I would pick a Rapide any day of the week.

     

    No, no the real rivals are the luxury limousines (more their performance versions) from premium manufacturers I named above. That's where the competition will come from.

    The AM is a rival in theory only, just because both brands produce sportscars. The Rapide is an ultra expensive, limited production bijou car for people who want to make a statement. It is not a real world machine like the Porsche. The Bentley will be a rival to the Panamera Coupe that will follow the 4-door.

     


     

    @reginos: I see. Honestly, I hear what you say and I respect your view of course. But I think we're dealing with perceptions and also how we predict the market will react to this new car - it's a big unknown Smiley Let's see how this pans out Smiley


    --

    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    Rossi:
    Misha011:

    I like Panamera , as you all know...


    Hey Misha, I would have NEVER figured out before you told us. Smiley
     

    SmileySmileySmiley


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    Ron (Houston):
    Rossi:
    Misha011:

    I like Panamera , as you all know...


    Hey Misha, I would have NEVER figured out before you told us. Smiley
     

    SmileySmileySmiley


    +1 Smiley Reminds me of President Obama's 'lipstick on a pig' faux pas Smiley Smiley


    --
     

    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    Last week, I saw a panamera twice.
    One tannengruen one in Austria and a silver one in Germany.

    The green one I could talk a pretty good look at, and as so many before me, I must say that pictures don't do it justice and that it looks actually pretty good in real life... Never expected that I would say that!


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

    I'm pretty sure that the Panamera is a great limo to drive, especially the Turbo must be an outstanding experience.

    However, like the reviewer said: And then you climb out of the marvellous four-seat cabin and you’re reminded how the Panamera looks. For me, that’s where it all falls flat. Only a mother could love it.

    For me, this is the best description of a Panamera driving experience ever.

    Considering Porsche's past of design changes and "improvements", I'd say that early adopters may be the ones paying a heavy price. On the other hand this wouldn't be the first time with Porsche, I did the same mistake with the first 996 and the first Cayenne Turbo I got. Both were great to drive but lost a lot of value because of the facelifts. You can't have it all I guess...

    I know that the first Cayenne didn't look too great either but with the Panamera, things are a bit different now. We have a difficult economy, the Panamera is HUGE and it is pretty expensive, all those three things may convince some people not to go for it. Personally, I have to be honest: I prefer the Cayenne. To each his own I guess. Otherwise, there is still the "can't go wrong" Porsche, the 911.


    --
     


    --
     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, Cayenne Turbo S, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: EVO reviews Panamera S

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