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    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    STRADALE:
     Parking one anywhere will have you 20 friends in 20 seconds and plenty of people taking pictures (trust me)... Here it's a POSITIVE thing,, it brings out plenty of smiles & good/fun conversations and you'd probably have some good samaritan stop a vandal before you would actually have your nice car set on fire..

     

     BTW, would that also be true if you parked your brand new Ferrari in Harlem Smiley I am not 100% sure. Also, would people enjoy you wearing a US$ 400k watch at night in Central Park? Today you might park a Ferrari in Bowery Street - but how was the situation 10 years ago? You see my point - the difference between NYC and Berlin is smaller than one could think it is...


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    The topic was Porsche's not Ferrari's but it looks like they're burning any kind of car that could be seen as expensive. You think it's a "positive" that there's less Porsche's etc in a city? I'm just very curious, instead of telling you about how I feel because it's obviously too far from how you feel, I've always LOVED to see cool sports cars, never cared where since I was a kid, could you explain that/the below a little more ?  - Also - Where's your line about what is "acceptable"/which cars are the ones you "don't like to see in the city",?? Which car would be borderline for you? In other words which car is "acceptable" but pushing it a little bit?  Just curious. Thanks..

    MKSGR:  Why? Personally, I feel that this is a positive thing. I honestly don't like it when people show off their cars in the city Smiley These cars are built for passionate driving and not for parking exercises in front of a street cafe...

    MKSGR: Showing off a Porsche (or any other expensive car) in Berlin is not a sign of good taste -

     


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    STRADALE:

    The topic was Porsche's not Ferrari's but it looks like they're burning any kind of car that could be seen as expensive. You think it's a "positive" that there's less Porsche's etc in a city? I'm just very curious, instead of telling you about how I feel because it's obviously too far from how you feel, I've always LOVED to see cool sports cars, never cared where since I was a kid, could you explain that/the below a little more ?  - Also - Where's your line about what is "acceptable"/which cars are the ones you "don't like to see in the city",?? Which car would be borderline for you? In other words which car is "acceptable" but pushing it a little bit?  Just curious. Thanks..

     

    MKSGR:  Why? Personally, I feel that this is a positive thing. I honestly don't like it when people show off their cars in the city Smiley These cars are built for passionate driving and not for parking exercises in front of a street cafe...

    MKSGR: Showing off a Porsche (or any other expensive car) in Berlin is not a sign of good taste -

     

     

     Showing-off is always a bad habit. This also applies to sportscars. The need to show off reflects negatively on a persons character as it highlights an inner imbalance and the need to impress others Smiley I never park my cars in front of a cafe if I have the choice...


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    MKSGR:
    STRADALE:

    The topic was Porsche's not Ferrari's but it looks like they're burning any kind of car that could be seen as expensive. You think it's a "positive" that there's less Porsche's etc in a city? I'm just very curious, instead of telling you about how I feel because it's obviously too far from how you feel, I've always LOVED to see cool sports cars, never cared where since I was a kid, could you explain that/the below a little more ?  - Also - Where's your line about what is "acceptable"/which cars are the ones you "don't like to see in the city",?? Which car would be borderline for you? In other words which car is "acceptable" but pushing it a little bit?  Just curious. Thanks..

     

    MKSGR:  Why? Personally, I feel that this is a positive thing. I honestly don't like it when people show off their cars in the city Smiley These cars are built for passionate driving and not for parking exercises in front of a street cafe...

    MKSGR: Showing off a Porsche (or any other expensive car) in Berlin is not a sign of good taste -

     

     

     Showing-off is always a bad habit. This also applies to sportscars. The need to show off reflects negatively on a persons character as it highlights an inner imbalance and the need to impress others Smiley I never park my cars in front of a cafe if I have the choice...


    I prefer to park where I can see my car, so ideally, it might be in front of a restaurant.  Or, if I have to valet, I prefer the valet to place it at the front, so it won't get dinged in some lonely location far away.  Another benefit of keeping it in the front, is that I don't want the valet to take a spin around the block.  In both cases, it could be considered as "showing off", but I don't mind showing off my shiny clean black 911.  Your car and how you you well maintain it is a reflection of you, much like your clothing is a reflection of you and how you maintain yourself.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    SoCal Alan:
    MKSGR:
    STRADALE:

    The topic was Porsche's not Ferrari's but it looks like they're burning any kind of car that could be seen as expensive. You think it's a "positive" that there's less Porsche's etc in a city? I'm just very curious, instead of telling you about how I feel because it's obviously too far from how you feel, I've always LOVED to see cool sports cars, never cared where since I was a kid, could you explain that/the below a little more ?  - Also - Where's your line about what is "acceptable"/which cars are the ones you "don't like to see in the city",?? Which car would be borderline for you? In other words which car is "acceptable" but pushing it a little bit?  Just curious. Thanks..

     

    MKSGR:  Why? Personally, I feel that this is a positive thing. I honestly don't like it when people show off their cars in the city Smiley These cars are built for passionate driving and not for parking exercises in front of a street cafe...

    MKSGR: Showing off a Porsche (or any other expensive car) in Berlin is not a sign of good taste -

     

     

     Showing-off is always a bad habit. This also applies to sportscars. The need to show off reflects negatively on a persons character as it highlights an inner imbalance and the need to impress others Smiley I never park my cars in front of a cafe if I have the choice...


    I prefer to park where I can see my car, so ideally, it might be in front of a restaurant.  Or, if I have to valet, I prefer the valet to place it at the front, so it won't get dinged in some lonely location far away.  Another benefit of keeping it in the front, is that I don't want the valet to take a spin around the block.  In both cases, it could be considered as "showing off", but I don't mind showing off my shiny clean black 911.  Your car and how you you well maintain it is a reflection of you, much like your clothing is a reflection of you and how you maintain yourself.

     Sounds reasonable SmileySmiley


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    MKSGR:
    STRADALE:
     Parking one anywhere will have you 20 friends in 20 seconds and plenty of people taking pictures (trust me)... Here it's a POSITIVE thing,, it brings out plenty of smiles & good/fun conversations and you'd probably have some good samaritan stop a vandal before you would actually have your nice car set on fire..

     

     BTW, would that also be true if you parked your brand new Ferrari in Harlem Smiley I am not 100% sure. Also, would people enjoy you wearing a US$ 400k watch at night in Central Park? Today you might park a Ferrari in Bowery Street - but how was the situation 10 years ago? You see my point - the difference between NYC and Berlin is smaller than one could think it is...

     

    In Harlem?  You'd have 200 friends in 2 seconds. Smiley I'm serious though.  Why, you really think that people would feel anger towards you if you drove into a lower class neighborhood in a Ferrari?? Maybe there you would but in America it's much different...  What you get in neighborhoods where a Ferrari is a rarity is even more people asking questions about the car, wanting pictures, etc.

    Most people here don't hate that way because of a car you're driving...

    And I know I wasn't brought up that way either... I also never felt any type of antipathy for people much wealthier than myself.  Never felt like it would make me feel good to destroy other people's property & I know for the vast majority of people here feel the same way.  From all my friends & acquaintances it would sound really strange if one of them said they felt it was a 'positive to not see Porsche's in NYC' .. It would be a huge surprise to me if I heard anything similar to that..     

    MSKGR: "Also, would people enjoy you wearing a US$ 400k watch at night in Central Park ? Today you might park a Ferrari in Bowery Street - but how was the situation 10 years ago? You see my point

    First off a $400k watch?  But if I owned a $400k watch for the most part people in NYC couldn't care less what watch I was wearing, most people in NYC don't feel resentmnent towards people because of what car they drive or watch they're wearing. Depending on how bling the watch people just wouldn't care...  You have to look like Lady Ga Ga to get anyone to notice you in NYC...

    "but how was the situation 10 years ago" - Uhhhhh. You mean way back in 2001? Sorry, don't get what you're saying...


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    You think that a Ferrari in Harlem would not make you a potential victim of a crime? Honestly, I have never tried myself (Smiley) but maybe somebody could post a video of his and his super car in Harlem Smiley

    BTW, just have to think of all these killing/robbery events in Miami, Detroit where cars are being stopped by criminals... 


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    MKSGR:
    STRADALE:

    The topic was Porsche's not Ferrari's but it looks like they're burning any kind of car that could be seen as expensive. You think it's a "positive" that there's less Porsche's etc in a city? I'm just very curious, instead of telling you about how I feel because it's obviously too far from how you feel, I've always LOVED to see cool sports cars, never cared where since I was a kid, could you explain that/the below a little more ?  - Also - Where's your line about what is "acceptable"/which cars are the ones you "don't like to see in the city",?? Which car would be borderline for you? In other words which car is "acceptable" but pushing it a little bit?  Just curious. Thanks..

     

    MKSGR:  Why? Personally, I feel that this is a positive thing. I honestly don't like it when people show off their cars in the city Smiley These cars are built for passionate driving and not for parking exercises in front of a street cafe...

    MKSGR: Showing off a Porsche (or any other expensive car) in Berlin is not a sign of good taste -


     Showing-off is always a bad habit. This also applies to sportscars. The need to show off reflects negatively on a persons character as it highlights an inner imbalance and the need to impress others Smiley I never park my cars in front of a cafe if I have the choice...

     

    I think "showing off" is different for different people.

    I would consider someone doing donuts in an intersection "showing-off".... But taking a  Porsche into a city??? Well I guess it's really a matter of how you feel inside about yourself.. If you feel that driving your Porsche in a city means you're "showing-off" and that's how people are judging you,  that you're driving in/through a city in a Porsche to "impress others" which 'reflects negatively on your character' then okay I guess.....I can't help you with that....... But shame that you feel all people are like that/feel that way about themselves... Shame that you feel it's a positive if there are less Porsche's in any city..Smiley

     

     

     


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    STRADALE:
    You lived there so obviously you would know best but I'd probably add  another reason:

    3) There's a chance your car will be BBQ'd? 

    "Burning cars has long been a popular nocturnal pastime in Berlin"

    Sounds very Cosmopolitan...

    RE: Porsche-Jeck: "nothing to do with PC nonsense (read: envy) " 

    The investigators seem to disagree- 

    "The investigators A spokeswoman for the police said that of the 372 cars torched in 2011, 155 were being treated as "politically motivated" crimes. "

    "politically motivated" means nothing else than "we have no clue how to efficiently fight these crimes" SmileyHow can you tell from a burnt down car whether it happened due to Hooliganism or due to any other perverted motivation ? Truth is that the vast majority of affected cars are normal cars (rather inexpensive).

    Truth is also that it mostly happens in living areas (with cars parked on the street) not neccessarily at the popular spots for shopping or dining where you could expect to spot expensive cars (danger of detection for these bastards).

    Of course you're right that the burning cars issue (which is an unsolved issue since 20 years !! Unbelievable incomptence of the police Smiley) plays a role. What did I do when I lived in Berlin ? Selling my sportscar ? Certainly not - I moved to a place with a garage and forgot about the whole thing thereafter.

    BTW to put the issue into perspective: in the 90ies I was much more afraid of car theft rather than Hooliganism. 372 cars torched vs. 10,000 (!) stolen cars p.a. (vast majority ending somewhere in East Europe). Luckily police and car industry have been much more efficient in this respect.

    The "show off" thing in my book is depending on how the driver behaves (revving the engine in front of a street cafe for example, catapult start with squealing tires etc. Smiley). The place where I live now it's easier to show off with an old VW Beetle than with a Porsche Smiley
    --
     

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    STRADALE:
    But shame that you feel all people are like that/feel that way about themselves... Shame that you feel it's a positive if there are less Porsche's in any city..Smiley

     

     

     

     Please try to control your words. I don't accept comments regarding my person - in particular not by people who don't know me. The cars I own and drive and the simple fact that I earned all the money I have by myself give me 100% of the right to tell that I hate showing off high-end cars in the city. Some might think otherwise - that's fine.


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    okay, thanks for the personal input.... I'm only going by what I've read in the press; they're saying it's politically motivated & the main targets of cars being torched are "luxury autos" and they've received letters from people claiming responsibility stating such....

    Arsonists burning Berlin's luxury cars

    Arsonists have set fire to 26 cars in the German capital in the last two days, mainly Mercedes, BMWs and Audis, police say, bringing the total number torched this year in Berlin to at least 138.

    By Stefan Nicola and Alex Webb

    BERLIN — Arsonists have set fire to 26 cars in the German capital in the last two days, mainly Mercedes, BMWs and Audis, police said Wednesday. That brings the total number torched this year in Berlin to at least 138, more than double the figure for all of 2010.

    The rise in Berlin car burnings coincides with widespread lawlessness that erupted last week across England. In Berlin, far-left extremists are specifically targeting German luxury cars, symbols of the country's wealth and export prowess, police said.

    "The arsonists want to hit what they say are 'Fat Cats,'" Berlin police spokesman Michael Gassen said. A special unit is investigating the fires as political crimes after the police received letters claiming responsibility that derided globalization, gentrification and rising rents, he said

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2015939311_germancarburning18.html

    --------------------------------

    Mercedes Targeted as Luxury Cars Burned in German Globalization Protests

    Far-left extremists are specifically targeting German luxury cars, symbols of the country's wealth and power, bringing the total number of vehicles torched in the German capital this year to at least 138, more than double the figure for all of 2010. Photographer: Stefan Nicola/Bloomberg

    Berlin resident Renate Langanke woke up shortly after midnight to a loud explosion. When the pensioner peeked out her window, she saw flames billowing from two Mercedes-Benz brand cars parked across the street.

    “Fire and smoke were everywhere, you could smell burned rubber, it was awful,” said Langanke, who lives in a sleepy area with tree-lined alleys in white-collar western Berlin. “I’ve always felt safe here, now I’m scared.”

    Arsonists have set fire to 26 cars in the German capital in the last two days, mainly from Daimler AG (DAI)’s Mercedes, Bayerische Motoren Werke AG (BMW) and Volkswagen AG (VOW)’s Audi, police said today. That brings the total number torched this year in Berlin to at least 138, more than double the figure for all of 2010.

    The rise in Berlin car burnings coincides with widespread lawlessness that erupted last week across England. More than 1,500 people were arrested as rioters looted shops, attacked bystanders and burnt autos. In Berlin, far-left extremists are specifically targeting German luxury cars, symbols of the country’s wealth and export prowess, police said.

    “The arsonists want to hit what they say are ‘Fat Cats,’” Berlin police spokesman Michael Gassen said. A special unit is investigating the fires as political crimes after the police received letters claiming responsibility that derided globalization, gentrification and rising rents, he said.

    Political Discontent

    While the attacks are spread out over the year, police usually see a spike during the summer months. In some cases, arsonists have placed barbeque charcoal lighters on tires and ignited them, Thomas Neuendorf, a Berlin police spokesman, said today. Arsonists have in the past also lit a car’s hood on fire after hosing it with accelerant. No arrests have been made in the most recent string of attacks.

    The fires come amid worsening economic data and political discontent in the country. German growth, last year the motor of Europe’s recovery, almost ground to a halt in the second quarter. Gross domestic product, adjusted for seasonal effects, rose 0.1 percent from the first quarter, the Federal Statistics Office in Wiesbaden said yesterday.

    Almost two years into the European debt crisis that began in Greece, restiveness over Germany’s contribution to rescues is also weighing on Chancellor Angela Merkel’s coalition as voters rebel over providing aid to fellow euro countries.

    Merkel’s Christian Democrats have the backing of 32 percent of Germans, while her coalition partners, the Free Democrats, are supported by 3 percent, according to a Forsa poll released Aug. 10. The two parties won the 2009 election with a combined 48.4 percent support.

    Luxury Cars

    When the country in 2009 experienced its worst recession since World War II, a record 221 autos were torched. A key factor for the unrest is that about 40 percent of German youths are either without a high school degree or a paying job, according to Johannes Becker, head of the Center for Conflict Studies at the University of Marburg.

    “In Britain you have the phenomenon that people are predisposed to jumping on the bandwagon,” Becker said. “They see that something is up and want to be part of it, to add some fuel to the fire, as it were. With these cars in Berlin, they are in contrast consciously trying to send a message.”

    Berlin also has a history of political protest, where the violent Baader-Meinhof gang staged its first armed attack in the city in 1970, and demonstrators today regularly clash with police during May Day marches.

    “It is not necessarily the financial crisis which is the main motivation for these attacks,” said Carsten Koschmieder, a political scientist at the Free University in Berlin. “The perpetrators see themselves as being from the left, and protest against capitalism, globalization and gentrification.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-16/luxury-cars-burned-in-berlin-protests.html

    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    Thanks for posting the very perceptive and informative summary, Porsche-Jeck Smiley


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    MKSGR:

    You think that a Ferrari in Harlem would not make you a potential victim of a crime? Honestly, I have never tried myself (Smiley) but maybe somebody could post a video of his and his super car in Harlem Smiley

    BTW, just have to think of all these killing/robbery events in Miami, Detroit where cars are being stopped by criminals... 

    I walk through Harlem regularly, as well as Washington Heights. Haven't driven my Porsche up there yet but would have no worries doing so. Nor would I have a problem parking it on the street during the day time. I wouldn't park it on the street overnight, not so much for fear of theft as for fear of fender benders.

    Having said that, you have to use good judgement and if a particular block has a bad vibe, you move on. As you point out above, there are bad neighborhoods in every city.

    But have a car broken into in a bad neighborhood in a US city is different from having it burned as a political statement, which is where this conversation started.

     


    --

    "I don't mean to brag, but I am really good at self-deprecation."


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    MKSGR:
    STRADALE:
    But shame that you feel all people are like that/feel that way about themselves... Shame that you feel it's a positive if there are less Porsche's in any city..Smiley

     

     

     

     Please try to control your words. I don't accept comments regarding my person - in particular not by people who don't know me. The cars I own and drive and the simple fact that I earned all the money I have by myself give me 100% of the right to tell that I hate showing off high-end cars in the city. Some might think otherwise - that's fine.

     

    I knew we were too far off..... No control issues with words here.. I didn't say anything about you that you didn't say already of yourself. . Like I said - If you feel that driving your Porsche in a city means you're "showing-off" and that's how people are judging you,  that they must be feeling/saying to themselves - 'you're driving in/through a city in a Porsche to "impress others",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, so that  "reflects negatively on your character" then okay I guess....If that's how you feel & you just said so, I'm not going to change your mind.....Please don't take it personally that I don't agree/share the same feelings/impressions.. 

    In other words - I'm only saying please keep in mind NOT EVERYBODY feels that driving their car in a city means they're "showing off".. When I see someone in a Porsche in NYC, or any other city I know with certainty I've never felt the person was doing so to "show-off" (unless perhaps the guys was doing donuts Smiley).. So no disrespect intended towards you, I'm just trying to convey my point which is - I don't share the same feelings...  

     


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    STRADALE:

    That's not what I've read. I'm only going by what I've read in the press;

    When it's written in the press it must be right ?

    "Arsonists have set fire to 26 cars in the German capital in the last two days, mainly from Daimler AG (DAI)’s Mercedes, Bayerische Motoren Werke AG (BMW) and Volkswagen AG (VOW)’s Audi, "

    If you throw a bomb in any road in Germany (even in the relative "poor" Berlin) it will be hard not to hit a car of the said brands Smiley Makes this every car from Daimler, BMW or AUDI a luxury car ? Certainly not.

    Of course the Hooligans just love how politicians and journalists just recently have "detected" this topic (as mentioned before it's not a really new phenomenon). "Great, I'm not a primitive criminal Hooligan anymore, I am a leftist rebel" Smiley


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    I visit Berlin several times a year. I always use the street in a very hip (many young people, bars, drugs, not that kind of area which our parents like) area to park my car (mostly the Boxster) in front of the apartment. Until now I never had a problem, brother and sister  in law living there too.

    Here in Munich somebody “opened” my Audi A3 using a hammer and stole my iPod and mobile phone while the car was in my garage.

    In California (SF) in 2000/1999 my uncle was stopped late at night in his rented SUV. He said something like “very huge revolver (we Germans are not that good in identifying arms)”, lost the car, his luggage, watch, mobile, money, clothes, everything. He said that it wasn’t easy to stop a car after midnight standing in underwear on the street to bring him back to his hotel or to the police.

    It could happen to you everywhere.

    Berlin doesn’t belong to the rich cities in Germany. So I think it is quite normal not to see as many Porsche as in Munich or Frankfurt. And because of the heavy traffic, speedlimits and often not perfect streets there are better cars than sportscars. And in the evening the best car brand to visit the very good bars and restaurants of Berlin is called “Taxi”.

    And one more word about the burning cars in Berlin. I wouldn’t call a used Audi A4, Mercedes A-class or a BMW 3xx parking on the street a luxury car. But it sounds much more spectacular. PJ postings describe the situation very good.

     


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    I've already changed/edited my post above.

    Obviously if you're THERE, you're going to have a better understanding of what's happening. 

    Actually yes.. BMW, AUDI, MERCEDES would be considered "luxury cars", in the US anyway..

    You said "Truth is that the vast majority of affected cars are normal cars (rather inexpensive)."

    I dunno, haven't seen a list of all cars  burnt  but according to the press/police the "main targets" appear to be expensive cars; Mercs, Audi's, etc...Regarding it 'not being about PC'... The people claiming responsibility say that's exactly what it's about.. Of course they might not even be the people doing the arson, maybe they're just writing letters claiming responsibility to further their cause  but like I said; in the press that's what's being reported...


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    Carrageous:
    MKSGR:

    You think that a Ferrari in Harlem would not make you a potential victim of a crime? Honestly, I have never tried myself (Smiley) but maybe somebody could post a video of his and his super car in Harlem Smiley

    BTW, just have to think of all these killing/robbery events in Miami, Detroit where cars are being stopped by criminals... 

    I walk through Harlem regularly, as well as Washington Heights. Haven't driven my Porsche up there yet but would have no worries doing so. Nor would I have a problem parking it on the street during the day time. I wouldn't park it on the street overnight, not so much for fear of theft as for fear of fender benders.

    Having said that, you have to use good judgement and if a particular block has a bad vibe, you move on. As you point out above, there are bad neighborhoods in every city.

    But have a car broken into in a bad neighborhood in a US city is different from having it burned as a political statement, which is where this conversation started.

     

    I frequently drive through some parts of the Bronx.  In fact I pass through the Bronx everyday on the parkways but will often get off the parkway if it's jammed up.. It's North Bronx so it's not that bad of a neighborhood at all but never had an issue filling up at gas stations, driving through in traffic or whatsoever.. Get more thumbs up & shout outs; "nice car", etc then normal.. Guys/kids with supped up Japanese imports are the ones that seem to appreciate my Turbo the most..

    Harlem isn't how it used to be portrayed in the movies...  Reminds me a night about 22(?) years ago. My best friend in college had an older brother who owned a White Lambo Countach. One night I rode shotgun we were going to a night club in Hartford CT. (in the city btw) He lived a good 50 miles from where we were going so I'm sure it was also about the drive. Anyway when we get into the city by the club, we pulled into an outside pay lot & he parks the car, we get out & start walking to the club.. I remember looking back at the car - thinking if it was my car I might be worried about where we just left it so I asked him; 'aren't you worried about leaving it here'... He was like; 'you kidding, there's always going to be someone checking out the car, no one would think of hurting it without a lot of eye witnesses'.... When we left the club sure enough there was a small crowd around the car...      

    Driving a Ferrari into Harlem is probably the same thing. During the day you probably have LESS of a chance of being vandalized, etc then if you blended in... 

    From Porsche's in Berlin we moved to Ferrari's in Harlem,, Smiley


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    STRADALE:

     

    Get more thumbs up & shout outs; "nice car", etc then normal..


    wow, I can tell you, this would neeeever happen to you in Germany - at least it has not ever happen to me (and it is not only because I do not drive such a nice turbo conv. you are driving...)...Smiley


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    STRADALE:
    MKSGR:
    STRADALE:
    But shame that you feel all people are like that/feel that way about themselves... Shame that you feel it's a positive if there are less Porsche's in any city..Smiley

     

     

     

     Please try to control your words. I don't accept comments regarding my person - in particular not by people who don't know me. The cars I own and drive and the simple fact that I earned all the money I have by myself give me 100% of the right to tell that I hate showing off high-end cars in the city. Some might think otherwise - that's fine.

     

    I knew we were too far off..... No control issues with words here.. I didn't say anything about you that you didn't say already of yourself. . Like I said - If you feel that driving your Porsche in a city means you're "showing-off" and that's how people are judging you,  that they must be feeling/saying to themselves - 'you're driving in/through a city in a Porsche to "impress others",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, so that  "reflects negatively on your character" then okay I guess....If that's how you feel & you just said so, I'm not going to change your mind.....Please don't take it personally that I don't agree/share the same feelings/impressions.. 

    In other words - I'm only saying please keep in mind NOT EVERYBODY feels that driving their car in a city means they're "showing off".. When I see someone in a Porsche in NYC, or any other city I know with certainty I've never felt the person was doing so to "show-off" (unless perhaps the guys was doing donuts Smiley).. So no disrespect intended towards you, I'm just trying to convey my point which is - I don't share the same feelings...  

     

     Smiley

    No problem indeed.

    BTW, I also drive to the city using sportscars Smiley As you say above it depends a lot of how these cars are being used in the city. Just driving and parking a sportscar is of course nothing bad Smiley


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    d997h:
    STRADALE:

     

    Get more thumbs up & shout outs; "nice car", etc then normal..


    wow, I can tell you, this would neeeever happen to you in Germany - at least it has not ever happen to me (and it is not only because I do not drive such a nice turbo conv. you are driving...)...Smiley

     

    Really???? The other day it actually scared the crap out of me. I was in the left/turning lane slowing to make a left turn when a car w/ 4 younger guys went by on my right. I had the top down and the guy in the rear seat of the other car yelled loud as heck: "Whooaaaaa!! then "Sweet car man!!" w/ his thumb up .... I had a moment where your heart starts beating really fast, at first, for a split second I didn't know where the scream came from or why....  I smiled & waved back but it scared the shit out of me!!!  I would say I get some kind of similar stuff (although usually doesn't nearly give me a heart attack) about?? 1/3rd or every 4th commute or so??.. Either just a thumbs up or someone will pull up next to me and say "nice car".. W/ the Ferrari it's just about every drive... At a gas station w/ the Ferrari you could just about bank on someone complimenting the car almost every time..    


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    d997h:
    STRADALE:

     

    Get more thumbs up & shout outs; "nice car", etc then normal..


    wow, I can tell you, this would neeeever happen to you in Germany - at least it has not ever happen to me (and it is not only because I do not drive such a nice turbo conv. you are driving...)...Smiley

     Actually, in South Africa where we have a huge income differential, we get the thumbs up from the poorer people and the bad comments from "peers".

    Reason in my view, which might be similar to Stradale's experience of Harlem:  the poorest young guys people are people who just get simple enjoyment and excitement from seeing cars that they could only ever dream about owning themselves - sharing a smile with them is uplifting and actually brings you together by crossing over to their side.  Letting a bunch of youngsters sit in the driving seat is a treat for the giver and receiver (there were photos of exactly that in the official Porsche 991 hot-weather road tests in South Africa recently).

    On the other hand, sorry, but those of our peers that like to point out the shortcomings of "old men" driving sportscars (I'm 44...) are just bloody minded.

    Cars are an expression of our ego's (ego as in the sense that everyone has an "ego") like the clothes we wear.  But they aren't necessarily a substitute for any shortcomings.  A wealthy introvert would probably drive a BMW 520i diesel - I'm an extrovert, and I drive a fancy car.  What's your problem..?  (and do I care..?)


    --

    Isn't it time you got yourself a !waytag?   www.waytag.com


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    That's the way it works here in Germany...You would see a big question mark on my forehead, if you'd show something like thumbs up or would cheer to me, because my first reaction would be: What does the guy want from me   ...so, enjoy !!


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    d997h:

    That's the way it works here in Germany...You would see a big question mark on my forehead, if you'd show something like thumbs up or would cheer to me, because my first reaction would be: What does the guy want from me   ...so, enjoy !!

     Similar to how Jeremy Clarkson once described on Top Gear how a convertible would be full of gob (yuck!) when you came back to it after leaving it open on a street.

    If wouldn't happen here - and it wouldn't be stolen either: the car thieves only steal VW Golfs and the like, as they are easy to offload (usually north of our borders).

    We are lucky that we don't have such a nasty undercurrent of snide resentment in our country - especially considering our past.  Our crime is high, but it's not undertaken by vicious youths on benefit who are actually only doing it for the kicks.

    (BTW we also have great roads, relatively few speed cameras, low fines and no points systems.  We don't even fill up our own cars - and before you berate us for that, that creates employment to 150,000 South Africans).  The more I think about it, the more it seems like motoring heaven!)


    --

    Isn't it time you got yourself a !waytag?   www.waytag.com


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    (BTW we also have great roads, relatively few speed cameras, low fines and no points systems.  We don't even fill up our own cars - and before you berate us for that, that creates employment to 150,000 South Africans).  The more I think about it, the more it seems like motoring heaven!)

     Mmmm, I've just thought.  And the highest road accident death rate in the world (but due to our crazy taxi drivers).  I suppose it's not quite perfect...Smiley

    (and sorry for quoting myself.  It's that damn ego again...)Smiley

     


    --

    Isn't it time you got yourself a !waytag?   www.waytag.com


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    That's interesting.. So no small talk even when you pull in for gas or wherever with other guys saying; 'nice car' or asking 'what year' or whatever?

    I know I find myself doing the same saying "nice car" , when I see another car I like, whether I'm walking around a street area, through a parking lot or wherever. There's been times where I've hung out "talked shop" /cars or motorcycles with guys I've never met.. I mean I guess I could take it or leave it, no biggy but a few guys are friends now..

    Hmmmm.. So lets say you pull up in your Porsche (is that a GT3?nice car) to a fuel station, another guy pulls up in a 997 GT3--- You guys just say "Hi" and pretend to ignore your similar love (probably) for the same type of car?............ Or say you pull up at a traffic light right next to another 997 on the street you don't acknowledge one another, with a wave or thumbs up whatever??? What do you do, don't look?

    Interesting how the culture is different.. Is it the car culture or why would that be??

       


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    Stradale, if you're responding to me, by "peers" I didn't mean fellow car lovers, I meant people of the same social and income bracket who don't understand why we love cars and think it's just showing off - they frown upon what they see as ostentatiousness (as they don't understand what cars mean to car lovers), but its often because they are already pushing the family budget to breaking point and are jealous...
    --

    Isn't it time you got yourself a !waytag?   www.waytag.com


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    Gotcha. No, I was responding/asking a question to d997h's re::

    "That's the way it works here in Germany...You would see a big question mark on my forehead, if you'd show something like thumbs up or would cheer to me, because my first reaction would be: What does the guy want from me   ...so, enjoy !!

    Sorry, guess I should have quoted him in my response before..


    --

    08 PORSCHE Turbo Cabriolet - 06 Ferrari F430 - 04 Durango HEMI - 04 Harley Davidson Screamin Eagle - 93 Harley Davidson Nostalgia


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    Well, interesting thought...petrol station...hmmm...I would say: no. I guess we, the other guy and me, would somehow respectfully ignore each other (though noting the other one's car obviously, and, if not visible, trying to figure out what model it could be) and do what we have to do - fill her up, pay, leave. It is only, when I find myself attending a track day or similar event, that there would be some conversation happening a the petrol station, where all the attendees need to go for - not much though but depending on the other guy's mentality...I think - and I regard myself being communicative - most of the German people would probably be offended or at least feel uncomfortable, when approached. Surely something (from my experience) you would never experienced in a more "anglo-saxon" environment...


    Re: Where are all the Porsches in Berlin?

    Same in London. Life is impersonal nowadays.

    Unless one has a shared experience in common (that is worthy of that description) then striking up a conversation with a complete stranger is just strange.

    So 2 guys on the same Porsche track day are going through a shared experience: so if they chit chat about their cars, that's normal.

    But 2 strangers filling up their Porsches at the same petrol station is hardly a shared experience. In London, if I chit chatted with another guy filling his Porsche at the same petrol station, he would think I was behaving oddly.

    Different societies, different norms.


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


     
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