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    Re: Urus (SUV)

    JR-550:

    RC here a good offfer for you!

    1615296497317Schermafbeelding 2021-03-09 om 14.25.10.png

    Thanks, my dealer had a similar deal for me (2.8k but incl.19% VAT) but unfortunately my tax advisor said no. I can never ever drive a Lamborghini for my business, same goes to my wife. G63 would have been possible (2.7k EUR) but it didn't fit our garage (height). After thinking about it, I concluded this is way too much. I pay 1k EUR for the Trackhawk. Basically a gift. Smiley

    The above offer also doesn't say if this is the lease rate for the base car or with options. My experience with non-dealer lease companies is also pretty bad, they are usually trying to rip you off after the lease.

    My wife had a 2.5k EUR lease deal (incl. VAT) offered for a fully optioned Huracan Evo Spyder RWD, what a shame she can't use it. The GT3 is 2.7k EUR. Ouch.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    Tragic incident involving a young driver and his image projecting father.  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9340117/Teenage-Lamborghini-driver-arrested-crash-killed-32-year-old-secretary.html

    I have seen this happen way too many times. I recall an incident many years ago when the 1985 Corvette gained fuel injection and sizable boost in power . A grandfather, against the wishes of the parents, purchased a shiny new Corvette as a sixteenth birthday gift. Within three hours the grandson and his friend were dead.  They managed to split the car in half lengthwise after striking a tree.  The pieces continued on to strike several more trees. All that destruction on a leafy street in an upscale residential area. 
     

    No matter how mature you think your child is as a teenager, they aren’t. The average male’s brain isn’t mature until age 25.  


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    CGX car nut:

    No matter how mature you think your child is as a teenager, they aren’t. The average male’s brain isn’t mature until age 25.  

    Most of us here could disprove that. 


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    Referring to the male brain maturing at 25 years old?


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    Isn't it all about education properly the driver ? 

    My son got his driver's licence this january. I didn't get him a car, he takes what he can find on our parking lot. Mostly the Mini JCW. Sometimes the Q7. Sometimes the 964 and for the moment the 997 Carrera S  only when I am a passenger or when he has to follow me. It is pretty difficult to know where the limit is . Somehow for now my take is to teach him how to drive these cars instead of just making him drive a car with no power. 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    If I would have had anything quicker than my 55hp Toyota Starlet at 17, I would have been as dead as its engine was at the end of my tenure. surprise


    --

    1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    Renault Super 5 five D 1.6d - 55hp. 810kg of pure driving experience smiley

    You can't start with better tool than this. 


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    Gnil:

    Isn't it all about education properly the driver ? 

    No, I'm afraid not. At a certain age, you have an inner devil (aka hormons and/or inexperience/reduced self-esteem) driving you and sometimes, the brain just shuts off in certain situations. I noticed this in me and basically all my friends at that time. 

    If I didn't do pro rally racing at 18-20, I would be dead by now. Even with the proper training, I did things I better not tell about. Smiley

    I had a major(!) accident at age 20 (after I ended my short two years rally career), when I was hit by a drunk driver in the front of the car (Kadett GTE, quite the rocket at that time) and my car flipped(!), rolled over a couple of times and slid for quite a while on the roof. I have some pictures somewhere, the police officer said he didn't believe someone exited the car alive. I had only a couple of broken ribs, fled out of the hospital after an hour because I was next to a guy with a knife in his back in the emergency, talking(!) to me and I it was just too much for me. 

    "Funny" story: The police officer who dragged me out of the rolled over car offered to sit down at a nearby restaurant and have a drink(!) to calm me down. Thank god I don't drink alcohol, that police officer was a dumbass. 

    The drunk driver in a Lada(!) had only a few scratches, so did his passengers.

    Why I told this story, even if it wasn't my fault? Simple: It made me "feel" an accident for real, I experienced pure horror and every time I drive fast, I am reminded of this accident and I keep my calm and restrain myself. It has been really a great help in keeping me from doing stupid stuff, believe it or not. I do not wish for anyone to experience such a thing.

    My son got his driver's licence this january. I didn't get him a car, he takes what he can find on our parking lot. Mostly the Mini JCW. Sometimes the Q7. Sometimes the 964 and for the moment the 997 Carrera S  only when I am a passenger or when he has to follow me. It is pretty difficult to know where the limit is . Somehow for now my take is to teach him how to drive these cars instead of just making him drive a car with no power. 

    I hate to say this but even if I do not know your boy, I am not sure a Mini JCW is the right car for a beginner. I know you mean well and I would love to get my son his dream car Challenger V8, Dodge RAM 1500 V8 or a M2 CS but while I trust my son, I do not trust his hormones and driving skills. Smiley To be honest, even the planned A3 sedan with 150 hp makes me a little bit nervous because this is still a car accelerating in 8.4 seconds from 0-100 kph and it can do over 230 kph. My daughter is a different story, she is calm, very cautious, she can handle the Evoque.

    I will let my son do some driving education events but overall, these events teach you basics and techniques but they do not temper your ego. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    I knew how to drive bikes and cars very well by the time I was old enough to get a license for each since I had been driving both before that age, didn't even need to take any lessons to pass them. But not only was I educated in the technical aspect of drving, but I was also educated in what was right or safe and what was wrong or dangerous at the wheel. And still it made no difference, our frontal cortex at that age is immature and we view risk completely different than adults, no matter how much information we have. So I am lucky to be alive is all I can say, two friends in particular at the time are sadly not for example, the stupid stupid things I did in bikes or in a car when my parents were present are embarrassing to think about now and not proud of at all. Of course all my parents knew was that I was an experienced rider/driver for my age that from every indication and observation the had was apparently responsible.


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    I’ve been an instructor with the BMW Foundation/Tire Rack teen Street Survival program and I can’t stress sending a young driver through such a program.  It helps make the unconfident driver confident driver and scare the overconfident driver into respect for the car.  
     

    There’s too many influences on teens today that affect the way they act regardless of parental oversight.  Too many have watched Fast and Furious, for example, think they can drift with the best of them, not realizing the difficulties and dangers trying it out on the street in a passenger vehicle.  
     

    From observation, having a child involved with sports is a large differentiator in a teen’s ability to properly, and safely, handle a car. Only once had this observation not held.  It was only in the afternoon session did I learn my student was dyslexic.  This explained why there was a slight, but noticeable, hesitation in his maneuvering on the slalom course and emergency braking and lane change exercises. 

     

     


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    CGX car nut:

    I’ve been an instructor with the BMW Foundation/Tire Rack teen Street Survival program and I can’t stress sending a young driver through such a program.  It helps make the unconfident driver confident driver and scare the overconfident driver into respect for the car.  
     

    There’s too many influences on teens today that affect the way they act regardless of parental oversight.  Too many have watched Fast and Furious, for example, think they can drift with the best of them, not realizing the difficulties and dangers trying it out on the street in a passenger vehicle.  
     

    From observation, having a child involved with sports is a large differentiator in a teen’s ability to properly, and safely, handle a car. Only once had this observation not held.  It was only in the afternoon session did I learn my student was dyslexic.  This explained why there was a slight, but noticeable, hesitation in his maneuvering on the slalom course and emergency braking and lane change exercises. 
     

    Smiley Video games are also an issue, my son is an amazing driver in video games (and I mean amazing) and of course YouTube videos where young(er) sports car owners drive supercars and everything looks so easy and cool. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    In the best Rennteam off topic tradition...

    In high school I had a summer job working at an auto body repair shop.  On multiple occasions I had to visit the insurance impound lot.  Seeing wrecked cars sealed with biohazard tape and blood covering the interior will make even a teenage boy a careful driver (and RC is right about brain development and hormones).


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    Gnil:

    Isn't it all about education properly the driver ? 

    This is the key. I have a standard talk line with my children when they sit next to me:

    Parent - "What is this?"

    Child (rolls eyes) - "It's a car"

    Parent - "No, it's a killing machine" "What's our motto?" "Safety first!"

     


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    RC:
    CGX car nut:

    I’ve been an instructor with the BMW Foundation/Tire Rack teen Street Survival program and I can’t stress sending a young driver through such a program.  It helps make the unconfident driver confident driver and scare the overconfident driver into respect for the car.  
     

    There’s too many influences on teens today that affect the way they act regardless of parental oversight.  Too many have watched Fast and Furious, for example, think they can drift with the best of them, not realizing the difficulties and dangers trying it out on the street in a passenger vehicle.  
     

    From observation, having a child involved with sports is a large differentiator in a teen’s ability to properly, and safely, handle a car. Only once had this observation not held.  It was only in the afternoon session did I learn my student was dyslexic.  This explained why there was a slight, but noticeable, hesitation in his maneuvering on the slalom course and emergency braking and lane change exercises. 
     

    Smiley Video games are also an issue, my son is an amazing driver in video games (and I mean amazing) and of course YouTube videos where young(er) sports car owners drive supercars and everything looks so easy and cool. Smiley

    My girls raced to karts from as young as 10 against adults Friday and Saturday nights at the local track. No better training ground for situational awareness and respect for machinery. To say nothing of amazing car control. Both always drive their male counterparts when in a car.  No accidents ever. 


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    RC:
    CGX car nut:

    I’ve been an instructor with the BMW Foundation/Tire Rack teen Street Survival program and I can’t stress sending a young driver through such a program.  It helps make the unconfident driver confident driver and scare the overconfident driver into respect for the car.  
     

    There’s too many influences on teens today that affect the way they act regardless of parental oversight.  Too many have watched Fast and Furious, for example, think they can drift with the best of them, not realizing the difficulties and dangers trying it out on the street in a passenger vehicle.  
     

    From observation, having a child involved with sports is a large differentiator in a teen’s ability to properly, and safely, handle a car. Only once had this observation not held.  It was only in the afternoon session did I learn my student was dyslexic.  This explained why there was a slight, but noticeable, hesitation in his maneuvering on the slalom course and emergency braking and lane change exercises. 
     

    Smiley Video games are also an issue, my son is an amazing driver in video games (and I mean amazing) and of course YouTube videos where young(er) sports car owners drive supercars and everything looks so easy and cool. Smiley

    Video games introduce an entirely different set of obstacles with different levels of hand-eye coordination.  Unlike the real-world, video games have a convenient reset function.  


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    crayphile:
    Gnil:

    Isn't it all about education properly the driver ? 

    This is the key. I have a standard talk line with my children when they sit next to me:

    Parent - "What is this?"

    Child (rolls eyes) - "It's a car"

    Parent - "No, it's a killing machine" "What's our motto?" "Safety first!"

     

    Proper education goes out the door when met with peer pressure or hormone-ladened actions.  

    I have a friend who made a small fortune as an exotic options trader years ago that thought his children needed the learning experience of having incidents behind the wheel.  He never changed his belief system even when his daughter knocked out her front teeth from running into the back of a truck.  Really bright guy but incredibly obstinate with this belief.  


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    crayphile:
    Gnil:

    Isn't it all about education properly the driver ? 

    This is the key. I have a standard talk line with my children when they sit next to me:

    Parent - "What is this?"

    Child (rolls eyes) - "It's a car"

    Parent - "No, it's a killing machine" "What's our motto?" "Safety first!"

     

    Sounds like my father teaching my brother and I about gun safety.


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    Correct term would be it is a 'tool'.

    Used correctly, a tool can be useful and helpful. Used incorrectly, a tool can hurt or kill. 

    No unlike any other tool like a rope, a knife, a fork, a pen, a bucket full of water, etc. Any of those can also be used to kill. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    It's just a lot harder to kill with a fork. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    Not really, if someone jab someone else with a fork right on the jugular..............a pen can also be used the same way. 

    May not be a quick death, but still death.

    Heck the ancient Chinese are an expert in prolonging death even using knives. 

    A pen can also be used to write something to cause someone else to have a breakdown and kill themselves. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    u guys watch to much John Wick.....smiley


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    Whoopsy:

    Correct term would be it is a 'tool'.

    Used correctly, a tool can be useful and helpful. Used incorrectly, a tool can hurt or kill. 

    No unlike any other tool like a rope, a knife, a fork, a pen, a bucket full of water, etc. Any of those can also be used to kill. 

    An expert can kill using the target's pair of glasses....see Godfather III Smiley


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    Seems rennteamers were all Schumacher wannabe when young , me included indecision

    I get scared when recalling  some memories I have driving my 55HP Opel Corsa down mountain roads. 

    If I had 150HP, it would been the same around the corners.

    The road situation has changed a lots since when I was 18. Today the young drivers have their licence (in Switzerland ) on probation during the first 3 years. Alcohol behind the wheel for them is 0% . Any major road law broken and they loose there licence and have to go back to training.  Roads are also much more congested. Radars everywhere.  The mentality of the young is also not the same. They are drilled to drive carefully. Interest in speed is less.

    I know my son could do some crazy stuff, but he is also quite a responsable dude. For the moment I still believe that learning how to use the car ''tool'' properly , even if it has 250 HP,  is the way to go.  The safest car I have for my son to drive is probably the 964 Carrera 4. He knows it is an old lady that needs to be treated with care. It is manual. It has AWD.  

    Anything with an automatic gearbox will be more dangerous as too easy to drive fast. 

    Learning how to use the tool correctly.  I will probably get more worried after about two years, when he gets too confident and those male hormones are still calling for '' super hero '' behaviors. 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    You know, having car control is fine, and quite essential when you get into a hairy situation, and you could end up in one any time. However, for me there is another major factor which is being ignored here, and that is insight in traffic behavior. Like most of you, when driving on the highway, I can often predict whether a car in front of is going to overtake, or other situations. You learn how to "read" the circumstances. It takes a lot of time behind the wheel to develop this. It helps you estimate what you can and cannot do, where the limits are. There have been so many times that I was in traffic, and felt all the cars around me were a bit "jumpy", to agitated. You learn to back off a bit and to keep your distance, etc. Now all of this will not keep you out of danger, but it will prevent 90% of them. You can't avoid all situations though, and when you end up something "exciting", knowing your car at the limits can help.

    So, I guess basic car control is 1, insight in traffic is 2, and only then knowledge of the car in extreme situations comes into play if you ask me. But then again; how much training on the limit should you have had for it to become second nature, so you can tap into that knowledge in a split-second situation? I think only very few people, the track enthusiasts, etc will ever reach that level.


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    Joost:

    You know, having car control is fine, and quite essential when you get into a hairy situation, and you could end up in one any time. However, for me there is another major factor which is being ignored here, and that is insight in traffic behavior. Like most of you, when driving on the highway, I can often predict whether a car in front of is going to overtake, or other situations. You learn how to "read" the circumstances. It takes a lot of time behind the wheel to develop this. It helps you estimate what you can and cannot do, where the limits are. There have been so many times that I was in traffic, and felt all the cars around me were a bit "jumpy", to agitated. You learn to back off a bit and to keep your distance, etc. Now all of this will not keep you out of danger, but it will prevent 90% of them. You can't avoid all situations though, and when you end up something "exciting", knowing your car at the limits can help.

    + 1   And this is clearly not integrated in a young driver. I see that when I drive next to my son. The reacts to situations. He does not anticipate.  But , as you say, this only comes with experience. 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    Joost:

    You know, having car control is fine, and quite essential when you get into a hairy situation, and you could end up in one any time. However, for me there is another major factor which is being ignored here, and that is insight in traffic behavior. Like most of you, when driving on the highway, I can often predict whether a car in front of is going to overtake, or other situations. You learn how to "read" the circumstances. It takes a lot of time behind the wheel to develop this. It helps you estimate what you can and cannot do, where the limits are. There have been so many times that I was in traffic, and felt all the cars around me were a bit "jumpy", to agitated. You learn to back off a bit and to keep your distance, etc. Now all of this will not keep you out of danger, but it will prevent 90% of them. You can't avoid all situations though, and when you end up something "exciting", knowing your car at the limits can help.

    So, I guess basic car control is 1, insight in traffic is 2, and only then knowledge of the car in extreme situations comes into play if you ask me. But then again; how much training on the limit should you have had for it to become second nature, so you can tap into that knowledge in a split-second situation? I think only very few people, the track enthusiasts, etc will ever reach that level.

    Experience in driving cannot be really replaced by training but learning discipline on the track or in motorsport can have positive effects in real life driving but I still believe it has something to do with the age and like Carlos explained it...brain development (and of course hormones). 

    My father once told me that after a certain age, driving is very much driven by reflexes. I didn't actually really listen to him until I encountered a few situations when reflexes certainly did their thing and in a positive way. 
    Example: I am driving down a road in the city, respecting the speed limit. Suddenly, I turn the steering wheel slightly to the left (after looking for a blink of an eye into the left rear view mirror) because I kind of had the feeling that something is moving behind a car in front of me. After I passed, I small kid ran over the street behind me. It was a reflex, the brain reacted before my thinking and it was due to the driving for over 30 years. Just a stupid example, there are many more. This is not something you can really train, unless you do professional training like Hamilton on a daily basis and this probably only helps on the track. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    Joost:

    You know, having car control is fine, and quite essential when you get into a hairy situation, and you could end up in one any time. However, for me there is another major factor which is being ignored here, and that is insight in traffic behavior. Like most of you, when driving on the highway, I can often predict whether a car in front of is going to overtake, or other situations. You learn how to "read" the circumstances. It takes a lot of time behind the wheel to develop this. It helps you estimate what you can and cannot do, where the limits are. There have been so many times that I was in traffic, and felt all the cars around me were a bit "jumpy", to agitated. You learn to back off a bit and to keep your distance, etc. Now all of this will not keep you out of danger, but it will prevent 90% of them. You can't avoid all situations though, and when you end up something "exciting", knowing your car at the limits can help.

    So, I guess basic car control is 1, insight in traffic is 2, and only then knowledge of the car in extreme situations comes into play if you ask me. But then again; how much training on the limit should you have had for it to become second nature, so you can tap into that knowledge in a split-second situation? I think only very few people, the track enthusiasts, etc will ever reach that level.

    This is the intent of the BMW Foundation/Tire Rack program with exercises designed to help build that needed experience.  It’s amazing at how little experience, in terms of reading the road and traffic, a new driver possesses. This is the same argument made with automated driver systems; they cause a deterioration of that basic skill.  


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    CGX car nut:
    This is the same argument made with automated driver systems; they cause a deterioration of that basic skill.  

    And this is why I prefer me 18 year old son to drive the 964 then the Q7 for example. 

    We need to replace our Mini JCW. It is basically my wife's car but my son would use it everything he needs to drive. She wants another Mini ( I tried to impose the GR, but with no success   ). I looked into the Minis . Only the base Mini has a manual transmission. None of the top of the line have a manual Smiley 

     I don't want my son to drive an automatic as I want him to get used to '' have to drive'' and not be driven,. My wife does not care one way or the other. 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    I know how difficult it is to make the right decisions as a parent. No matter what you do, it can be wrong. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Urus (SUV)

    As someone said further upstream, karting is a wonderful way to get seattime and learn driving dynamics. At 16 I was also on the track in my dad's street car learning higher performance driving. More than anything else it taught me that nothing on the street is ever as fast as the track can be so there is no reason to speed or do silly things on the street when I can go as fast as I can on the track. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


     
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