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    997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Despite what Nick says, the 997TT has better depreciation according to the latest EVO magazine (with Alfa 8c on cover). The depreciation rating for the F430 is 3/5 and the 997TT is 5/5. Also interesting is the running cost of the F430 is 2/5 and for the 997TT it's 5/5. Reliability it's a tie at 4/5.

    I'm attaching a pic I took with my cell phone.

    David

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    in the US new F430 and 599 go for a huge premium over MSRP. Some people do get it for MSRP, thus no depreciation for then. Classic Ponzi scheme, illegal but tolerated.

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Evo mag calcs may apply to UK....but US (esp CA) mkt is very different....cheap, mfr-subsidized, $0 down leases (and their capital/CA sales tx efficiency) make deprec calcs for <6-12 mo use of hot new cars a more complex, case-specific calc.....

    Various new MB/P can be traded-in for 90-100% MSRP during first 6 mos post-launch....and new F for 100% MSRP....why keep any car longer than 6 mos anyway???

    Would observe in SF region that prob easier to get early 599 (@MSRP) than early CL63...some overlap exists of 599 and CL63 buyer bases...and, perhaps counterintuitively to some, would guess median net worth of top 10 guys on SF Peninsula CL63 list easily surpasses that of top 10 guys on 599 list....

    Also would guess that even if one bought new 599 for $500K ($340K loaded MSRP) in US secondary mkt today, its one-yr deprec may be no worse than what CL63 will likely incur in same time period w/similar mis....

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    If you drive your F-car then you do have a depreciation like Porsche have. But if you have a very new model and the next model is far away and you drive only a few thousand kilometer per year then the F-cars have less depreciation then P-cars. If you look at www.mobile.de you will see a lot of cheap F 360 spider with F1.

    Quote:

    EUR 89.999
    MwSt. ausweisbar
    Daten:
    Gebrauchtfahrzeug, 69.800 km, 294 kW (400 PS), Benzin, Automatik, Erstzulassung: 04/03, Klimaanlage, rot, 2/3 Türen

    Kraftstoffverbrauch ca.:
    17,9 l/100km
    CO2-Emissionen ca.:
    415 g/km

    Besonderheiten:
    ABS, Zentralverriegelung, Lederausstattung, Leichtmetallfelgen, Navigationssystem, el. Fensterheber, Xenonscheinwerfer

    Beschreibung:
    ROT, VOLLEDER SCHWARZ MIT ROTEN NÄHTEN, SPORTSITZE, KLIMA, XENON, 4-ROHR-SPORTAUSPUFF-FUCHS II , F1-SCHALTING, BECKER-NAVIGATIONSYSTEM, CARBON-PAKET, ROTE BREMSSÄTTEL, FERRARI-EMBLEM AN DEN KOTFLÜGELN, GROSSE INSPEKTION DURCHGEFÜHRT, ZAHNRIEMEN ERNEUERT, BREMSEN ERNEUERT, 1-HAND, UNFALLFREI, SCHECKHEFT, NEUWERTIGER ZUSTAND! !!




    like new, 50% of MSRP after 4 years, the same depreciation like a Porsche would have.

    AM

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    If you drive your F-car then you do have a depreciation like Porsche have. But if you have a very new model and the next model is far away and you drive only a few thousand kilometer per year then the F-cars have less depreciation then P-cars. If you look at www.mobile.de you will see a lot of cheap F 360 spider with F1.

    Quote:

    EUR 89.999
    MwSt. ausweisbar
    Daten:
    Gebrauchtfahrzeug, 69.800 km, 294 kW (400 PS), Benzin, Automatik, Erstzulassung: 04/03, Klimaanlage, rot, 2/3 Türen

    Kraftstoffverbrauch ca.:
    17,9 l/100km
    CO2-Emissionen ca.:
    415 g/km

    Besonderheiten:
    ABS, Zentralverriegelung, Lederausstattung, Leichtmetallfelgen, Navigationssystem, el. Fensterheber, Xenonscheinwerfer

    Beschreibung:
    ROT, VOLLEDER SCHWARZ MIT ROTEN NÄHTEN, SPORTSITZE, KLIMA, XENON, 4-ROHR-SPORTAUSPUFF-FUCHS II , F1-SCHALTING, BECKER-NAVIGATIONSYSTEM, CARBON-PAKET, ROTE BREMSSÄTTEL, FERRARI-EMBLEM AN DEN KOTFLÜGELN, GROSSE INSPEKTION DURCHGEFÜHRT, ZAHNRIEMEN ERNEUERT, BREMSEN ERNEUERT, 1-HAND, UNFALLFREI, SCHECKHEFT, NEUWERTIGER ZUSTAND! !!




    like new, 50% of MSRP after 4 years, the same depreciation like a Porsche would have.

    AM



    Exactly. Also, the US market scheme will not last forever.

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Depreciation in a 100K+ car in the US? One would think that at these prices if you are worried about that then you probally need to put your money somewhere else. Just a thought.


    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    I am familiar with the article. It was on a vendor who rented exotic cars to I believe Londoner's. These are his findings and do not apply to the ROW.

    Tell me David, given a choice to buy a 430 at MSRP or a 997TT at MSRP which would you choose?

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Only your conscience can tell...

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I am familiar with the article. It was on a vendor who rented exotic cars to I believe Londoner's. These are his findings and do not apply to the ROW.

    Tell me David, given a choice to buy a 430 at MSRP or a 997TT at MSRP which would you choose?



    Amen to that, brother.

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I am familiar with the article. It was on a vendor who rented exotic cars to I believe Londoner's. These are his findings and do not apply to the ROW.

    Tell me David, given a choice to buy a 430 at MSRP or a 997TT at MSRP which would you choose?



    Absolutely the 997TT. As I've said in the past, the F430 is a terrible looking car (especially the Spyder with the weird after-market looking humps and cheap "roll hoops") and I would be embarassed to be driving it in public the same way I would be embarassed to wear a gold diamond encrusted Rolex watch in public. It's just not me.

    David

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Quote:
    bstew said:
    Depreciation in a 100K+ car in the US? One would think that at these prices if you are worried about that then you probally need to put your money somewhere else. Just a thought.



    Tell that to Nick. I started this thread because of Nick's constant bashing of Porsche resale values. I'm sure that's why he never drives his F430 because we all know the resale value of Ferraris with high mileage, or mileage comparable to a Porsche, drops like a rock.

    David

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    bstew said:
    Depreciation in a 100K+ car in the US? One would think that at these prices if you are worried about that then you probally need to put your money somewhere else. Just a thought.



    Tell that to Nick. I started this thread because of Nick's constant bashing of Porsche resale values. I'm sure that's why he never drives his F430 because we all know the resale value of Ferraris with high mileage, or mileage comparable to a Porsche, drops like a rock.

    David



    David, I have over 7500 miles on my 2006 Spider. As to the Spider being ugly, I suspect a lot of car manufacturers would love to have this ugly car considering there is a five year wait for one in the US or pay $60-75,000 over MSRP.

    Regarding you choosing the 997TT over a 430 at MSRP, it only proves to me that you will never elevate yourself above a Boxster.

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    bstew said:
    Depreciation in a 100K+ car in the US? One would think that at these prices if you are worried about that then you probally need to put your money somewhere else. Just a thought.



    Tell that to Nick. I started this thread because of Nick's constant bashing of Porsche resale values. I'm sure that's why he never drives his F430 because we all know the resale value of Ferraris with high mileage, or mileage comparable to a Porsche, drops like a rock.

    David



    David, I have over 7500 miles on my 2006 Spider. As to the Spider being ugly, I suspect a lot of car manufacturers would love to have this ugly car considering there is a five year wait for one in the US or pay $60-75,000 over MSRP.

    Regarding you choosing the 997TT over a 430 at MSRP, it only proves to me that you will never elevate yourself above a Boxster.



    Nick, I'd also choose a Turbo over the 430. Granted, I'd also choose the 599 over a Turbo, but that's a different story .

    Then again, you'd have to be braindead not to take a 430 at MSRP in the US, as you can then immediately resell it at a much higher price. However, this is just a passing phenomenon and will end, sooner or later.

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Absolutely the 997TT. As I've said in the past, the F430 is a terrible looking car (especially the Spyder with the weird after-market looking humps and cheap "roll hoops") and I would be embarassed to be driving it in public the same way I would be embarassed to wear a gold diamond encrusted Rolex watch in public. It's just not me.

    David



    Taste is very subjective, but I quite agree with you, especially on the roll hoops. I also find the interior a little crude, offering a non-map based navigation system?!

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    I'd like to understand why everyone thinks that the supply/demand imbalance for new Ferraris in the US will eventually end? It's been that way for as long as I can remember.

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    It might actually get worse, as Ferrari is reducing US allocations to make room for Asian orders.

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Quote:
    U Boat Commander said:
    I'd like to understand why everyone thinks that the supply/demand imbalance for new Ferraris in the US will eventually end? It's been that way for as long as I can remember.



    Everything ends eventually. Who knows, Ferrari might suffer quality issues or their products might become uninteresting - not just Ferrari, of course, it can happen to any manufacturer. Just think ten years back when there were scores of F355s for sale and nobody would buy those.

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Ferrari stated this year that they intend to increase future production to 5000 cars per year.

    Ferrari sales in the USA are not a "Ponzi" scheme. A Ponzi scheme is where investors put money into a company and the early investors are paid off with funds put in by later investors..with the later investors never getting any money back- because there money was used to payoff and impress the early investors to attract more suckers.

    Ferrari sales in the USA at times seem like a "Laddering" scheme. That is where buyers can only purchase at a stated price(MSRP)IF they agree to let the dealer resell the car for a higher price a short time later.

    In the stock market "Laddering" is a conspriracy scheme used to drive up the price of new offerings by garaunteeing initial sales to attract follow on buyers whose purchases will then raise the price of the stock.

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    In my area as in most of the US the F430 will always have far greater re-sale %'s than the turbo. It was the same w/ the 996 turbo vs. the 360/Challenge_Stradale. Believe me I know, I took about a 25% re-sale hit on my turbo after 18 months and I MADE MONEY after owning my CS 2 years. Last week I was offered $35k over what I paid for my 430. No biggy though, it's not news; anyone in the US that's been an owner of both cars (turbo & CS, or 430) will basically tell you the same thing.

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I am familiar with the article. It was on a vendor who rented exotic cars to I believe Londoner's. These are his findings and do not apply to the ROW.

    Tell me David, given a choice to buy a 430 at MSRP or a 997TT at MSRP which would you choose?



    Absolutely the 997TT. As I've said in the past, the F430 is a terrible looking car (especially the Spyder with the weird after-market looking humps and cheap "roll hoops") and I would be embarassed to be driving it in public the same way I would be embarassed to wear a gold diamond encrusted Rolex watch in public. It's just not me.

    David




    Ever find that comment you said EVO posted that the Spider was "VULGAR" ?

    You should try driving the car one day, maybe you'll understand why things are the way they are.

    PS: The lambo is called "Spider", not the 430.

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Quote:
    VKSF said:

    Various new MB/P can be traded-in for 90-100% MSRP during first 6 mos post-launch....and new F for 100% MSRP....why keep any car longer than 6 mos anyway???







    Maybe this works for Ferrari's, but I just can't understand why any MB/P Dealer would offer 100% for a lightly used car, regardless of how good a customer is? They would never make any money. What am I missing?

    MB/P are not usually sold at a premium - no matter what the waiting list is.

    In addition, the Dealer wouldn't make any money on Maintenance/Servicing since the vehicle is sold after just 6 months of use.




    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Quote:
    mp said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:

    Various new MB/P can be traded-in for 90-100% MSRP during first 6 mos post-launch....and new F for 100% MSRP....why keep any car longer than 6 mos anyway???







    Maybe this works for Ferrari's, but I just can't understand why any MB/P Dealer would offer 100% for a lightly used car, regardless of how good a customer is? They would never make any money. What am I missing?

    MB/P are not usually sold at a premium - no matter what the waiting list is.

    In addition, the Dealer wouldn't make any money on Maintenance/Servicing since the vehicle is sold after just 6 months of use.






    Same here.
    By me, probably the largest MB market in the world pre-owned cars don't bring 100% of the msrp, not even the hottest 55,65,63 even within the first 6 months. The only P cars that bring msrp within 6 months are the turbo, maybe GT3RS. But new 8 cyl Ferrrai's 125% within first 6 months and have brought 110-120% within first 2 years. Even through dealer trade in 110-120% through out it's entire production imo. btw: I was at Mercedes of Massapequa today, they bought Ferrari of Long Island and were having a party for customers. Saw the sweetest black S65 on the floor, SL65's too. Really like the GL450, looking at it for my wife's next suv.

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    I really like the S65, but the price tag is insane! I remember hearing about 1-year-old 65 AMGs being sold for under 100k in the US. Is that true?

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    bstew said:
    Depreciation in a 100K+ car in the US? One would think that at these prices if you are worried about that then you probally need to put your money somewhere else. Just a thought.



    Tell that to Nick. I started this thread because of Nick's constant bashing of Porsche resale values. I'm sure that's why he never drives his F430 because we all know the resale value of Ferraris with high mileage, or mileage comparable to a Porsche, drops like a rock.

    David



    David, I have over 7500 miles on my 2006 Spider. As to the Spider being ugly, I suspect a lot of car manufacturers would love to have this ugly car considering there is a five year wait for one in the US or pay $60-75,000 over MSRP.

    Regarding you choosing the 997TT over a 430 at MSRP, it only proves to me that you will never elevate yourself above a Boxster.



    I wonder how many years the wait is for a new gold diamond encrusted Rolex watch?

    David

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I am familiar with the article. It was on a vendor who rented exotic cars to I believe Londoner's. These are his findings and do not apply to the ROW.

    Tell me David, given a choice to buy a 430 at MSRP or a 997TT at MSRP which would you choose?



    Absolutely the 997TT. As I've said in the past, the F430 is a terrible looking car (especially the Spyder with the weird after-market looking humps and cheap "roll hoops") and I would be embarassed to be driving it in public the same way I would be embarassed to wear a gold diamond encrusted Rolex watch in public. It's just not me.

    David




    Ever find that comment you said EVO posted that the Spider was "VULGAR" ?

    You should try driving the car one day, maybe you'll understand why things are the way they are.

    PS: The lambo is called "Spider", not the 430.



    Yes the VULGAR comment is in the print edition of the September 2006 EVO magazine. If someone has it, please kindly look it up. Otherwise I will order it if my honesty is continued to be questioned. I'm sure the F430 is spectacular to drive. Still, it looks terrible, and that ruins it for me. A big part of the sports car "passion" equation is how the car looks. It has to inspire passion, not make me want to throw up.

    David

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    In my area as in most of the US the F430 will always have far greater re-sale %'s than the turbo. It was the same w/ the 996 turbo vs. the 360/Challenge_Stradale. Believe me I know, I took about a 25% re-sale hit on my turbo after 18 months and I MADE MONEY after owning my CS 2 years. Last week I was offered $35k over what I paid for my 430. No biggy though, it's not news; anyone in the US that's been an owner of both cars (turbo & CS, or 430) will basically tell you the same thing.



    But what was the mileage on your CS? High mileage Ferraris plummet in resale values. Ferraris have high resale value on face value, but if you dig deeper, it's because their owners rarely drive them and so they have very low mileage, AND Ferrari produces them in low volume, so supply/demand is a factor. It has nothing to do with them being superior cars and so an exceptional demand for them, but rather Ferrari manipulating the market value the same way that DeBeers manipulates the diamond market, and owners rarely driving them and hence low mileage compared to other sports cars. If Ferrari produced as many F430s as Porsche makes the 997 there would be more F430s sitting on dealer lots and bigger discounts.

    David

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    ^ Duh!

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    LOL... David... Porsche relies on too much history to pawn off its modern day cars. Soon they'll actually have to spend some REAL money on R&D because without the performance edge, exclusivity is all that they can count on to keep selling their cars. Unfortunately that's pretty much being chucked out the window as well.

    I have a hard time believing you actually started this thread if you really live in SF. Porsches now depreciate at a far higher rate than the days of the 993s. To bring Ferrari into this conversation is just ignorant. (regardless of mileage)

    Re: 997TT vs. F430 depreciation

    All top end mass produced Ferraris have pretty scary depreciation, look at the 612, 550, 575, 456. The entry level 360 and 430 are the exception to the rule. Hopefully the 599 will do better.

    I actually wouldn't mind holding on to one if they are more attractive and offer a decent set of gadgets at least like the Gallardo. Getting one just for snob appeal is a little too much for my taste.

    The brief ownership of the 360 was not rewarding, the factory installed a mismatching arm rest, the locking mechanism malfunctioned and locked me out twice. Car stalled on me even with the F1 gear box. The 'musical' exhaust was good for a 5 minutes drive to show off but got very tiring after an hour.

    Now that I have scratched my itch, back to the more reliable German products that can bring more smile to my face everyday, regardless of depreciation!

     
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