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Re: Last CGT
Last CGT??? 
Believe it or not but the production ending April 2006 is actually a good thing. Why? Carrera GT customers will understand when the 997 Turbo shows up.
But of course these cars can't be compared, especially if you're looking at the details. The Carrera GT is and will always be a Porsche supersportscar at the same level of a Porsche 959 or GT1. I was referring to the plain performance figures (vs. the 997 Turbo).
Believe it or not but the production ending April 2006 is actually a good thing. Why? Carrera GT customers will understand when the 997 Turbo shows up.
But of course these cars can't be compared, especially if you're looking at the details. The Carrera GT is and will always be a Porsche supersportscar at the same level of a Porsche 959 or GT1. I was referring to the plain performance figures (vs. the 997 Turbo).
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
RC said:
Last CGT???
Believe it or not but the production ending April 2006 is actually a good thing. Why? Carrera GT customers will understand when the 997 Turbo shows up.
But of course these cars can't be compared, especially if you're looking at the details. The Carrera GT is and will always be a Porsche supersportscar at the same level of a Porsche 959 or GT1. I was referring to the plain performance figures (vs. the 997 Turbo).
So you're saying that the 997TT will MATCH CGT performance? Man, that would be the best New Year's gift EVER
!
Jan 3, 2006 3:40:38 AM
- CarreraGtRacer
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Reply to:
RC
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
RC said:
Last CGT???
Believe it or not but the production ending April 2006 is actually a good thing. Why? Carrera GT customers will understand when the 997 Turbo shows up.
But of course these cars can't be compared, especially if you're looking at the details. The Carrera GT is and will always be a Porsche supersportscar at the same level of a Porsche 959 or GT1. I was referring to the plain performance figures (vs. the 997 Turbo).
Does this mean the performance of the 997 would be on par with the CGT?
Jan 3, 2006 12:38:16 PM
- EricAlain
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Re: Last CGT
If they stop producing the CGT in April 06, I suspect they will fall a bit short of the 1,500 units target.
At the end of July 05, 882 units had been sold. In Dec 05, the 1,111th was delivered hence 229 units sold in 5 month. This means the current selling rate is around 46 units per month. So to reach the 1,500 units target would take another 8-9 month so let's say until late August early September 06.
Stopping the production in April would mean, they would have at that time an inventory equivalent to around 4 month of sales .... which would be, I believe very high for this type of car where typically buyers want a "taylor made" vehicle...
Re: Last CGT
They do not build GTs for inventory as they do not do it for any 997, 987 or Cayenne (Of course, importers, distributors or sellers may order vehicles without a customer. But then it is their problem to get these configurations sold.)
As mentioned in their press release in December, they announced that they have already sold 1250 units. However, they are not sure whether they meet the planned 1500 units. I assume production will end earlier if they do not have enough orders.
As mentioned in their press release in December, they announced that they have already sold 1250 units. However, they are not sure whether they meet the planned 1500 units. I assume production will end earlier if they do not have enough orders.
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
RC said:
Last CGT???
Believe it or not but the production ending April 2006 is actually a good thing. Why? Carrera GT customers will understand when the 997 Turbo shows up.
You are absolutely right.
For me the Carrrera GT has always been an underperformer. The new 997TTS will most likely make that very clear again...
Jan 3, 2006 3:51:42 PM
- CarreraGtRacer
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Re: Last CGT
Quote:they cut back and will only produce 1250 units
EricAlain said:
If they stop producing the CGT in April 06, I suspect they will fall a bit short of the 1,500 units target.
At the end of July 05, 882 units had been sold. In Dec 05, the 1,111th was delivered hence 229 units sold in 5 month. This means the current selling rate is around 46 units per month. So to reach the 1,500 units target would take another 8-9 month so let's say until late August early September 06.
Stopping the production in April would mean, they would have at that time an inventory equivalent to around 4 month of sales .... which would be, I believe very high for this type of car where typically buyers want a "taylor made" vehicle...
Jan 3, 2006 4:03:07 PM
- EricAlain
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- Loc: Paris, France , France
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Re: Last CGT
You're right, 1,250 is what I read in another thread.
Does it mean the CGT is not such a huge success or is the market for super sports car that narrow or is Porsche not very lucky when it comes to ultra high end models (959, CGT)?
I suspect the answer is a bit of all of the above ....
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
EricAlain said:
You're right, 1,250 is what I read in another thread.
Does it mean the CGT is not such a huge success or is the market for super sports car that narrow or is Porsche not very lucky when it comes to ultra high end models (959, CGT)?
I suspect the answer is a bit of all of the above ....
it's no secret -- they were unable to sell 1,500 so they decided to stop production at 1,250.
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
zzboba said:Quote:
EricAlain said:
You're right, 1,250 is what I read in another thread.
Does it mean the CGT is not such a huge success or is the market for super sports car that narrow or is Porsche not very lucky when it comes to ultra high end models (959, CGT)?
I suspect the answer is a bit of all of the above ....
it's no secret -- they were unable to sell 1,500 so they decided to stop production at 1,250.
...isn't that still 3X the number of Enzo's sold by Ferrari??
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
...isn't that still 3X the number of Enzo's sold by Ferrari??
yes. but enzo was originally limited to 349, then extended to 399 (+1) due to high demand. and did cost twice as much. and no tricky clutch
according to UK's car magazine, used enzos are still selling over sticker while used CGT don't move at all.
i like the CGT, but porsche was slightly too optimistic and greedy.
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
964C2 said:Quote:
zzboba said:Quote:
EricAlain said:
You're right, 1,250 is what I read in another thread.
Does it mean the CGT is not such a huge success or is the market for super sports car that narrow or is Porsche not very lucky when it comes to ultra high end models (959, CGT)?
I suspect the answer is a bit of all of the above ....
it's no secret -- they were unable to sell 1,500 so they decided to stop production at 1,250.
...isn't that still 3X the number of Enzo's sold by Ferrari??
Ferrari only intended to make 399 Enzos for the market from the start. They only sold number 400 for the Tsunami relief effort. Porsche intended to make 1500 units but because of poor sales they are halting producion.
ps. Porsche made a total of 230 units of the 959, only 30 of which went to America.
Re: Last CGT
My point is that Porsche's sweet spot in terms of pricing is clearly miles below Ferrari's. It is therefore very tricky for Porsche to accurately predict and sell a significant amount of cars in "uncharted territories" for them.
This being said, selling 1,250 CGT is a clear success and it was much more challenging than selling 399 Enzo.
This time around Porsche has made a lot of money selling the CGT.... They have once said that margins were similar to those achieved on a 911 Turbo ie over 25% ... So on a Euro 350,000 car (excl. sales tax and dealer margin), the operating margin per unit sold is close to Euro 87,500 .... which is not bad at all !!!!!
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
EricAlain said:
My point is that Porsche's sweet spot in terms of pricing is clearly miles below Ferrari's. It is therefore very tricky for Porsche to accurately predict and sell a significant amount of cars in "uncharted territories" for them.
This being said, selling 1,250 CGT is a clear success and it was much more challenging than selling 399 Enzo.
This time around Porsche has made a lot of money selling the CGT.... They have once said that margins were similar to those achieved on a 911 Turbo ie over 25% ... So on a Euro 350,000 car (excl. sales tax and dealer margin), the operating margin per unit sold is close to Euro 87,500 .... which is not bad at all !!!!!
Exactly....Porsche made more money in total on the CGT than Ferrari on the Enzo.....but of course Ferrri is not in business to make money and survive, since it is fully subsidized by Fiat
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
EricAlain said:
My point is that Porsche's sweet spot in terms of pricing is clearly miles below Ferrari's. It is therefore very tricky for Porsche to accurately predict and sell a significant amount of cars in "uncharted territories" for them.
This being said, selling 1,250 CGT is a clear success and it was much more challenging than selling 399 Enzo.
This time around Porsche has made a lot of money selling the CGT.... They have once said that margins were similar to those achieved on a 911 Turbo ie over 25% ... So on a Euro 350,000 car (excl. sales tax and dealer margin), the operating margin per unit sold is close to Euro 87,500 .... which is not bad at all !!!!!
Exactly...P's buyer base generally runs out of cash somewhere south of F's buyer base (as a cynic pointed out, P's buyers generally drive from LA to LV, whereas serial new F buyers tend to fly NetJets
)..... Not sure if selling 1250 CGT's, many at deep-discts to MSRP and w/well-known gruesome deprec, is great for brand image....in fact, given how many initial CGT buyers ate a chunk of fast deprec, will prob be tough for P to mkt a future $500Kish supercar in any vols....
Quite unfortunate as CGT seemed to be a strong "poor man's Enzo" if it didn't suffer from its CA-incompatible ground clearance/initial "tricky" clutch.....next time maybe its engineers should understand daily driving road conditions in world's biggest mkt for high-end cars.....even the F/Lambo guys figured out ht adjustment...and if ht adjustment is an impure concept, then just mkt an FXX-like race car for the deep-pocketed racecar driver wannabes.....
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
EricAlain said:
My point is that Porsche's sweet spot in terms of pricing is clearly miles below Ferrari's. It is therefore very tricky for Porsche to accurately predict and sell a significant amount of cars in "uncharted territories" for them.
This being said, selling 1,250 CGT is a clear success and it was much more challenging than selling 399 Enzo.
This time around Porsche has made a lot of money selling the CGT.... They have once said that margins were similar to those achieved on a 911 Turbo ie over 25% ... So on a Euro 350,000 car (excl. sales tax and dealer margin), the operating margin per unit sold is close to Euro 87,500 .... which is not bad at all !!!!!
Exactly...P's buyer base generally runs out of cash somewhere south of F's buyer base
Interesting that you say that: when I look to our German clients with a net worth of US$ 75m or above I hardly know anybody owning and/or driving a Ferrari - but many driving Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Porsche... Seems to be different in the states?
Re: Last CGT
all i ear is complains about the clutch I've been driving 6000 miles in my cgt and have no problem it must be people that are used to driving automatic transmission that have problems
I think the cgt clutch is a marvel when you consider that it should last 100.000 miles compared to the F1 mc laren that needs a new clutch every 3000 miles again porsches are build for reliability and to be driven
that is what porsche ingenieurs strive for
as an owner I can honesly say there is no better value no Enzo no SLR can come close
I think the cgt clutch is a marvel when you consider that it should last 100.000 miles compared to the F1 mc laren that needs a new clutch every 3000 miles again porsches are build for reliability and to be driven
that is what porsche ingenieurs strive for
as an owner I can honesly say there is no better value no Enzo no SLR can come close
Re: Last CGT
The coment of CA incompatible ground clearence does not say much about California's road condition ,
and since most people in the the states buy these super car to garage them it should not mater
by the way Porsche invented rising suspension on a Super car ,the 959
but there again it was designed for rallying as well as racing ,in 1989 they were fetching close to a 1,000,000.00 USD
and since most people in the the states buy these super car to garage them it should not mater
by the way Porsche invented rising suspension on a Super car ,the 959
but there again it was designed for rallying as well as racing ,in 1989 they were fetching close to a 1,000,000.00 USD
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
DJC said:
The coment of CA incompatible ground clearence does not say much about California's road condition ,
and since most people in the the states buy these super car to garage them it should not mater
by the way Porsche invented rising suspension on a Super car ,the 959
but there again it was designed for rallying as well as racing ,in 1989 they were fetching close to a 1,000,000.00 USD
What I meant by CA's road conds is CA is a fairly hilly area, esp in the LA/SF regions (thus we have mtn twisties that are a foreign concept to our friends in FL/Chicago/Dallas, etc etc).....many guys in SF/LA routinely commute to office in their various toys and unfortunately CGT struggles w/perhaps 50-70%+ of office pkg garage ramps/gas stations, etc in CA.....not a desirable issue for guys who can also choose to pull an Enzo/430, etc out of their garage to head to office.....and if I want to deal w/race car ground clearance,etc, why would I buy a CGT w/its street car compromises and wt???....I'd just get an FXX instead of a CGT.....
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
EricAlain said:
My point is that Porsche's sweet spot in terms of pricing is clearly miles below Ferrari's. It is therefore very tricky for Porsche to accurately predict and sell a significant amount of cars in "uncharted territories" for them.
This being said, selling 1,250 CGT is a clear success and it was much more challenging than selling 399 Enzo.
This time around Porsche has made a lot of money selling the CGT.... They have once said that margins were similar to those achieved on a 911 Turbo ie over 25% ... So on a Euro 350,000 car (excl. sales tax and dealer margin), the operating margin per unit sold is close to Euro 87,500 .... which is not bad at all !!!!!
Exactly...P's buyer base generally runs out of cash somewhere south of F's buyer base
Interesting that you say that: when I look to our German clients with a net worth of US$ 75m or above I hardly know anybody owning and/or driving a Ferrari - but many driving Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Porsche... Seems to be different in the states?
Cultural diffce I guess....I know many guys in SF/NYC w/net worth range you describe who are enthusiastic and capable drivers (who buy 2-3 new cars/yr for their own use, not for wife/nannies) who drive 55/65 as their daily commuter car and have 430 as their wkend toy (and owned multitude of 360 iterations prior)...and who have never even owned P before....
Must admit I was in that F/Merc-only camp until about yr ago when I obtained my first P...a 997S...and have also gotten two new 996TTS Coupes since and have now become thoroughly addicted to P's as world's best all-in-one sports/GT cars
....but I suspect I'm in a minority among high-end US buyers.... After much reflection and expce w/both F and P, my simplistic conclusion is: P is an engineer's sportscar, and F is more of a marketing guy's sportscar (looks good/sounds good, has brand sex appeal in places like LA/MC, but will get eaten by a 996TTS on any mtn twisties/autobahn).....and I most certainly would never want to be in any crash in a F (my sense is 996TTS is world's safest car when evaluated in terms of both active/passive safety)...
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
VKSF said:
After much reflection and expce w/both F and P, my simplistic conclusion is: P is an engineer's sportscar, and F is more of a marketing guy's sportscar (looks good/sounds good, has brand sex appeal in places like LA/MC, but will get eaten by a 996TTS on any mtn twisties/autobahn).....and I most certainly would never want to be in any crash in a F (my sense is 996TTS is world's safest car when evaluated in terms of both active/passive safety)...
I could not agree more
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
VKSF said:
After much reflection and expce w/both F and P, my simplistic conclusion is: P is an engineer's sportscar, and F is more of a marketing guy's sportscar (looks good/sounds good, has brand sex appeal in places like LA/MC, but will get eaten by a 996TTS on any mtn twisties/autobahn).....and I most certainly would never want to be in any crash in a F (my sense is 996TTS is world's safest car when evaluated in terms of both active/passive safety)...
I could not agree more
Another way I've heard it put is (warning sexist remarks about to come) the difference between having a mistress (Ferrari) and a wife (Porsche). Mistress you can play with and change often, but the right wife is a keeper. Oh, and it's obvious which is more expensive to maintain isn't it? :-)
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
schao said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
VKSF said:
After much reflection and expce w/both F and P, my simplistic conclusion is: P is an engineer's sportscar, and F is more of a marketing guy's sportscar (looks good/sounds good, has brand sex appeal in places like LA/MC, but will get eaten by a 996TTS on any mtn twisties/autobahn).....and I most certainly would never want to be in any crash in a F (my sense is 996TTS is world's safest car when evaluated in terms of both active/passive safety)...
I could not agree more
Another way I've heard it put is (warning sexist remarks about to come) the difference between having a mistress (Ferrari) and a wife (Porsche). Mistress you can play with and change often, but the right wife is a keeper. Oh, and it's obvious which is more expensive to maintain isn't it? :-)
I guess that makes the Lamborghini made by Audi the sexy, exciting girlfriend you never marry but you never tire of.
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
vinnie said:Quote:
schao said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
VKSF said:
After much reflection and expce w/both F and P, my simplistic conclusion is: P is an engineer's sportscar, and F is more of a marketing guy's sportscar (looks good/sounds good, has brand sex appeal in places like LA/MC, but will get eaten by a 996TTS on any mtn twisties/autobahn).....and I most certainly would never want to be in any crash in a F (my sense is 996TTS is world's safest car when evaluated in terms of both active/passive safety)...
I could not agree more
Another way I've heard it put is (warning sexist remarks about to come) the difference between having a mistress (Ferrari) and a wife (Porsche). Mistress you can play with and change often, but the right wife is a keeper. Oh, and it's obvious which is more expensive to maintain isn't it? :-)
I guess that makes the Lamborghini made by Audi the sexy, exciting girlfriend you never marry but you never tire of.
Now that's what I call balance.
Re: Last CGT
unfortunately all wheel drive does not grab me
again maybe for rallying but not for a supper car designed to mirror the
characteristic of a racing car for the street
the comment that a fxx would make more sense than a CGT is absurd
at 1.5 m$ I think the bugati makes more sense and definitely is better value for money at least quality wise its german Italian should be left to make shoes
again maybe for rallying but not for a supper car designed to mirror the
characteristic of a racing car for the street
the comment that a fxx would make more sense than a CGT is absurd
at 1.5 m$ I think the bugati makes more sense and definitely is better value for money at least quality wise its german Italian should be left to make shoes
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
DJC said:
unfortunately all wheel drive does not grab me
again maybe for rallying but not for a supper car designed to mirror the
characteristic of a racing car for the street
the comment that a fxx would make more sense than a CGT is absurd
at 1.5 m$ I think the bugati makes more sense and definitely is better value for money at least quality wise its german Italian should be left to make shoes
Value discussions re: cars like CGT, Enzo, FXX, etc etc make no sense to me.....cars in this league are ultimately trivial toys (on a $$$ basis) to the realistic buyer set that tends to have net worth >$100MM and for whom divorce settlements, operating costs of a pvt Global/GV, etc, and 3-4 $15MM+ houses (and staff needed to maintain them) tend to move needle more than any car I can think of.....
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
schao said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
VKSF said:
After much reflection and expce w/both F and P, my simplistic conclusion is: P is an engineer's sportscar, and F is more of a marketing guy's sportscar (looks good/sounds good, has brand sex appeal in places like LA/MC, but will get eaten by a 996TTS on any mtn twisties/autobahn).....and I most certainly would never want to be in any crash in a F (my sense is 996TTS is world's safest car when evaluated in terms of both active/passive safety)...
I could not agree more
Another way I've heard it put is (warning sexist remarks about to come) the difference between having a mistress (Ferrari) and a wife (Porsche). Mistress you can play with and change often, but the right wife is a keeper. Oh, and it's obvious which is more expensive to maintain isn't it? :-)
I suspect our sentiments re: F vs P are similar
, but I think of marriage (at least in US) as potentially one of the strategically most costly transactions one can ever sign up for (given cost of a divorce settlement for any successful guy: either 50% equity stake or at least $10MM for quick 2nd/3rd marriage w/no kids 
)....as a single (never married) guy, I just try to learn from my elders' mistakes ......in fact, I'd bet no mistress/other hottie can ever be as costly as an ex-wife on a "per use" basis.....
Re: Last CGT
Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
schao said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
VKSF said:
After much reflection and expce w/both F and P, my simplistic conclusion is: P is an engineer's sportscar, and F is more of a marketing guy's sportscar (looks good/sounds good, has brand sex appeal in places like LA/MC, but will get eaten by a 996TTS on any mtn twisties/autobahn).....and I most certainly would never want to be in any crash in a F (my sense is 996TTS is world's safest car when evaluated in terms of both active/passive safety)...
I could not agree more
Another way I've heard it put is (warning sexist remarks about to come) the difference between having a mistress (Ferrari) and a wife (Porsche). Mistress you can play with and change often, but the right wife is a keeper. Oh, and it's obvious which is more expensive to maintain isn't it? :-)
I suspect our sentiments re: F vs P are similar
Ha! Good point, especially in community property Calif. I've been happily married for 25 years (a rarity these days I guess), and the only advice I would offer is to be sure to have a prenup if the potential cost of a divorce is a major obstacle. I lived 5 years in the Bay Area (1973-77), and I remember the region was (another sexist remark coming) "target rich", and I suspect it remains so. Probably should return to talking cars now, so Cheers!
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