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    California sold out until 2011

    Just read that the California is sold out until 2011.

    In 2009 they want to build 2800 cars, in 2010 3000 cars. In Germany the prices are starting at 179.000,- Euro inkl. 19% Tax.

    Sad to read that Montezemolo's old words are not true anymore "Ferraris is building 3000 cars a year and if someone asks me to build one more I will build one less"! Luckily the total number of cars build annually will still be much lower than Porsche. So it will stay pure Luxury which this myths IMO needs.

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Be interesting to see how this date changes - it used to be, in the UK at least, that the really desirable cars were 'sold out' for 3-4 years at launch (AMV8/Audi R8 for example), but this used to tumble as the speculators we're weeded out - in the current climes I rate this will be even quicker. Also only 12 months ago they were quoting 2year+ wait for 430s.. so 2011, 2 years after the actual first deliveries doesn't seem that spectacular.

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    Lars997 said:
    Just read that the California is sold out until 2011.

    In 2009 they want to build 2800 cars, in 2010 3000 cars. In Germany the prices are starting at 179.000,- Euro inkl. 19% Tax.

    Sad to read that Montezemolo's old words are not true anymore "Ferraris is building 3000 cars a year and if someone asks me to build one more I will build one less"! Luckily the total number of cars build annually will still be much lower than Porsche. So it will stay pure Luxury which this myths IMO needs.



    Now it's " if a customer wants us to build one more car , we will build two "


    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    Rich C (UK) said:
    Be interesting to see how this date changes - it used to be, in the UK at least, that the really desirable cars were 'sold out' for 3-4 years at launch (AMV8/Audi R8 for example), but this used to tumble as the speculators we're weeded out - in the current climes I rate this will be even quicker. Also only 12 months ago they were quoting 2year+ wait for 430s.. so 2011, 2 years after the actual first deliveries doesn't seem that spectacular.



    Bare in mind that this car will be produced is more numbers than the highly limited R8 and AMV8. Secondly the western economy is crap, hence the "low" number of orders.

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Keep in mind when orders were taken car was being pitched at 130k euros. Due to the higher price combined with the current economy I doubt that the car will do those numbers.

    I am keeping mine and I took over the next persons order (since the car was out of his price range)

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    I'm sure very few people will mind even if this model is sold out for it's entire production cycle!

    I think the 348 was a better looking car when it was released...

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Engineered supply and demand. Give this car a year after intro and you'll be able to pick one up easily.

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    SrfCity said:
    Engineered supply and demand. Give this car a year after intro and you'll be able to pick one up easily.



    +1

    What good is a "volume" model if no one can buy one.

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    boytronic said:
    I think the 348 was a better looking car when it was released...



    Absolutely right! But in those days there have been less people willing to buy a car for this amount of money!

    Thats how world changes...

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    guys IMO the current economic crisis is MASSIVE!!!!! and its not over yet. i wont be surprised to see in few months a california or any other luxury car sitting in a dealer's showroom available for immediate delivery.
    the US is the biggest ferrari consumer, and the target customers are not a mine employee in north dakota but a banker in new york.. and anyone who think bankers can buy a ferrari these days don't have a clue about what's happening.
    and i know for a fact that orders for luxury cars are being dropped big time

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    guys IMO the current economic crisis is MASSIVE!!!!! and its not over yet. i wont be surprised to see in few months a california or any other luxury car sitting in a dealer's showroom available for immediate delivery.
    the US is the biggest ferrari consumer, and the target customers are not a mine employee in north dakota but a banker in new york.. and anyone who think bankers can buy a ferrari these days don't have a clue about what's happening.
    and i know for a fact that orders for luxury cars are being dropped big time



    you know in any economical crisis the luxury segment was the one still growing. Lets see how it will be this time, but it arent only bankers driving Ferraris and not every rich person is having thick stock accounts.

    Lets wait and see and keep the fingers crossed that the whole economy will overcome this crisis with only minor damage.

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    Lars997 said:
    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    guys IMO the current economic crisis is MASSIVE!!!!! and its not over yet. i wont be surprised to see in few months a california or any other luxury car sitting in a dealer's showroom available for immediate delivery.
    the US is the biggest ferrari consumer, and the target customers are not a mine employee in north dakota but a banker in new york.. and anyone who think bankers can buy a ferrari these days don't have a clue about what's happening.
    and i know for a fact that orders for luxury cars are being dropped big time



    you know in any economical crisis the luxury segment was the one still growing. Lets see how it will be this time, but it arent only bankers driving Ferraris and not every rich person is having thick stock accounts.

    Lets wait and see and keep the fingers crossed that the whole economy will overcome this crisis with only minor damage.




    Ultra luxury is undamaged, mega yachts, Enzos, haute couture etc -- but the California segment gets IMHO hit by the crisis especially in the US.

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    zzboba said:

    Ultra luxury is undamaged, mega yachts, Enzos, haute couture etc -- but the California segment gets IMHO hit by the crisis especially in the US.



    There you might be right...!

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    Lars997 said:
    Quote:
    zzboba said:

    Ultra luxury is undamaged, mega yachts, Enzos, haute couture etc -- but the California segment gets IMHO hit by the crisis especially in the US.



    There you might be right...!



    So, gents, time to buy a California then.

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Haaa Rossi - if I would like it!

    But it might be to buy a F430 again

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    430s are taking a nose dive in the UK. Out of curiosity I called a dealer yesterday for a price on my 3 month old spider. The shocking news is that it has taken a 40% drop on list in 3 months if I were forced to sell it to a dealer. Fortunately I've no intention of selling it but I don't think the market for F cars here has ever seen falls like that. I also heard a rumour today that Ferrari GB have made a lot of their staff redundant in the past week or so. New 430's are landing at dealers with no buyers and are being pre-registered and driven for a few hundred miles so they can be sold as used cars for well below list. A lot of dealerships are going to struggle very hard to survive I suspect in the next few months.

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    ISUK said:
    430s are taking a nose dive in the UK. Out of curiosity I called a dealer yesterday for a price on my 3 month old spider. The shocking news is that it has taken a 40% drop on list in 3 months if I were forced to sell it to a dealer. Fortunately I've no intention of selling it but I don't think the market for F cars here has ever seen falls like that. I also heard a rumour today that Ferrari GB have made a lot of their staff redundant in the past week or so. New 430's are landing at dealers with no buyers and are being pre-registered and driven for a few hundred miles so they can be sold as used cars for well below list. A lot of dealerships are going to struggle very hard to survive I suspect in the next few months.



    Sorry to hear that ISUK...

    Though this poses an interesting question - you wuld have thought the kind of people who have enough money to buy a 430 would not be so affected by the "credit crunch"?

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    boytronic said:
    Quote:
    ISUK said:
    430s are taking a nose dive in the UK. Out of curiosity I called a dealer yesterday for a price on my 3 month old spider. The shocking news is that it has taken a 40% drop on list in 3 months if I were forced to sell it to a dealer. Fortunately I've no intention of selling it but I don't think the market for F cars here has ever seen falls like that. I also heard a rumour today that Ferrari GB have made a lot of their staff redundant in the past week or so. New 430's are landing at dealers with no buyers and are being pre-registered and driven for a few hundred miles so they can be sold as used cars for well below list. A lot of dealerships are going to struggle very hard to survive I suspect in the next few months.



    Sorry to hear that ISUK...

    Though this poses an interesting question - you wuld have thought the kind of people who have enough money to buy a 430 would not be so affected by the "credit crunch"?



    It becomes psychological. Also, the smart one's are buying assets at bargain prices instead of wasting money on depreciating ones.

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    boytronic said:

    Sorry to hear that ISUK...

    Though this poses an interesting question - you would have thought the kind of people who have enough money to buy a 430 would not be so affected by the "credit crunch"?



    The current upheaval in the markets is affecting all sorts of people. The biggest issue presently is liquidity. I was talking to my banker yesterday and he said the main thing his well healed clients are concerned with at present is return OF capital, not return ON capital. That should give you some indication of how bad things are. There aren't many "safe" places to place cash at the moment. Bets on the stock markets are fine if you have liquidity and the ability to move fast and spend time tracking the market almost on a minute by minute basis but to plagiarise our dubious PM "now is not the time for novices" in the bear market. With the poor quality analysis of the crisis, by UK tv media in particular, it seems the average person still has not realised that what we are witnessing is in effect the prelude to an economic tsunami if the banking system is not quickly stabilised. The far reaching repercussions of a simple lack of working capital for otherwise perfectly sound businesses has not even been discussed. With every business no doubt stretching their credit terms with suppliers to the max to delay cash outgoings it's only a matter of time before many start to fail without vital bank overdraft facilities. This will accelerate the spiral of recession faster as unemployment levels rise and cause more mortgage debt defaulting.

    The specific problem for the UK prestige car market is the almost instant dry up of finance as many cars here are sold in this way especially 430's and Gallardo's. With credit being much harder to secure and the demise of the ludicrously cheap monthly repayment option schemes with modest initial deposit that were underpinned by end of term healthy balloons (now also gone due to collapsing used values which are a long way from settling down IMHO) dealers are discovering that their customer base has dwindled alarmingly. I've also heard that the Porsche network is feeling the chill wind with stories of redundancies at OPC's as well. There's no doubt we are in for tough times but if the banking support announced this morning works, hopefully common sense will return and investors will stop the flight towards liquidity which has driven the markets down. We won't know if this is the case for several weeks though as it's not a magic bullet fix unfortunately.

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    SrfCity said:

    ..... Also, the smart one's are buying assets at bargain prices instead of wasting money on depreciating ones.



    Very true and good advice for those with liquidity able to take advantage and take a medium to long term view on maximising their returns. Stick your cash into Maclaren F1's, Enzo's, F40's etc

    I've had some first hand experience of the ludicrously high gearing that some over enthusiastic corporate investment banks have been happy to sanction in a greedy bid for profit and growth in recent years on various commercial transactions. Some people really have built up "empires" based upon nothing more than elaborate "get rich in the future schemes" that heavily relied upon a rising property market to underpin a commercial business which was viewed as merely an inconvenience to be tolerated whilst the market rose. Problem is those commercial ventures consume both cash and management time and need an experienced hand to run them, something these property model tycoons and greedy banks apparently forgot to factor in. Add in a property market crash and the wheel quickly falls off as bank covenants start to be breached in a domino effect. Enough of the economic woes though as this is a car forum and a place to have a refuge from such issues

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    ISUK said:
    430s are taking a nose dive in the UK. Out of curiosity I called a dealer yesterday for a price on my 3 month old spider. The shocking news is that it has taken a 40% drop on list in 3 months if I were forced to sell it to a dealer. Fortunately I've no intention of selling it but I don't think the market for F cars here has ever seen falls like that. I also heard a rumour today that Ferrari GB have made a lot of their staff redundant in the past week or so. New 430's are landing at dealers with no buyers and are being pre-registered and driven for a few hundred miles so they can be sold as used cars for well below list. A lot of dealerships are going to struggle very hard to survive I suspect in the next few months.



    Not surprised. All modern day Ferraris except the exotic, e.g. F40, Enzo, etc. eventually tank in value. especially those with high mileage.

    David

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Sold out until 2011, to individuals who put a deposit down, or to dealerships in anticipation of demand?

    Can anyone clarify please?

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Sold out until 2011, to individuals who put a deposit down, or to dealerships in anticipation of demand?

    Can anyone clarify please?



    deposits, but how many will fulfill their commitments.

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Sold out until 2011, to individuals who put a deposit down, or to dealerships in anticipation of demand?

    Can anyone clarify please?



    Sold out due to Ferrari limiting production and supply because if they made more they would have to lower the price (read: profit margin) due to low demand.

    David

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    ISUK said:
    430s are taking a nose dive in the UK. Out of curiosity I called a dealer yesterday for a price on my 3 month old spider. The shocking news is that it has taken a 40% drop on list in 3 months if I were forced to sell it to a dealer. Fortunately I've no intention of selling it but I don't think the market for F cars here has ever seen falls like that. I also heard a rumour today that Ferrari GB have made a lot of their staff redundant in the past week or so. New 430's are landing at dealers with no buyers and are being pre-registered and driven for a few hundred miles so they can be sold as used cars for well below list. A lot of dealerships are going to struggle very hard to survive I suspect in the next few months.



    IMO for this category of cars to make any sense, you have to keep them for many years and enjoy them instead of keeping them locked away to avoid mileage,wear and tear and depreciation.

    So few are made anyway that they never go out of fashion like mainstream performance cars. They will keep their attractiveness even at old age. Sometimes even older looks better (328,355 etc).

    Moreover, if you are in for a longer ownership period you avoid the anxiety that as miles pile up you are going to lose too much on resale. You can drive your car without restriction come rain or shine for long distances, not thinking about what the next owner will think of it and you will drive for the sake of the pleasure such machine brings.

    Unfortunately many such cars are kept away so that the next owner finds them virgin and pays more for the privilege. It's shame really!

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    My spider has been well used racking up 3,300 miles in a little over 3 months and I intend to make regular use of it in future as it is such an astonishingly good car. The point I was alluding to (more at UK owners) was that up until five or six months ago, 430's were still seeing only very minor depreciation from new with demand comfortably outstripping supply and keeping values buoyant. That has all suddenly changed as the driving force behind both the new and used market here was the availability of cheap finance deals that many people used to fund the sort of lifestyles that their regular income would not otherwise have allowed. It's just fairly sobering to see how quickly this effect has kicked in . On the other hand it makes it a buyers market and I'm looking out for a distress sale Scuderia to park alongside the spider in my garage. I've been offered three cars today alone but will sit tight and let the tumbling market shift another few thousand Poundsss off them before jumping in

    Anyone in Europe looking for a bargain used Ferrari should keep an eye out on the UK market as there are a fair few left hand drive cars here and the currency exchange rate will work in your favour.

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    ISUK are you starting to favour Ferrari's over Lambos?

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    LB said:
    ISUK are you starting to favour Ferrari's over Lambos?



    Can you tell? I passed on the LP560 I had ordered for a variety of reasons and am looking at the Scuderia instead. After driving one on Monday I was blown away by just how good a car it is. The spider was also incredible on a driving holiday through France and Switzerland. After the 360 Modena I briefly owned a few years ago and disliked intensely I never thought I'd go back to the brand but the 430 is a revelation and has totally changed my opinion. I may go back to Lamborghini but will probably opt to let someone else suffer the savage early depreciation for a change and buy a very low miles used LP560 next summer. At the rate exotic cars are tumbling here I should be able to bag a real bargain!

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    Quote:
    ISUK said:
    My spider has been well used racking up 3,300 miles in a little over 3 months and I intend to make regular use of it in future as it is such an astonishingly good car. The point I was alluding to (more at UK owners) was that up until five or six months ago, 430's were still seeing only very minor depreciation from new with demand comfortably outstripping supply and keeping values buoyant. That has all suddenly changed as the driving force behind both the new and used market here was the availability of cheap finance deals that many people used to fund the sort of lifestyles that their regular income would not otherwise have allowed. It's just fairly sobering to see how quickly this effect has kicked in .



    That's the way it ought to be! Drive drive drive

    The credit squeeze will drive the accidental Ferraristi back to their previous lifestyles

    Re: California sold out until 2011

    I would definetly go for a Scuderia over a LP560. I have never been a fan of the egear, hopefully they have been able to improve on the previous version.

    But your right, the credit crunch combined with the low pound has made the UK a very attractive market.

    One car that you should also look into is the SLR. Had one this summer in Monaco and turned out to be a much car than i thought it would be. Trading at 200k, it s a good deal compared to the ones priced over here.

     
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