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    No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    I talked to one of our sources yesterday and it seems to be true: The Panamera S gets a turbo charged V6 engine, rumored power is in the 430-440 hp range. No more V8 engine, only for the Turbo and maybe Turbo S. 

    This is just crazy, even if the V6 turbo engines will surely provide a nice performance.

    The rumor with the V6 turbo charged engine came up a while ago when one user mentioned that US dealers have been informed about that a while ago. I couldn't believe it.

    The reason? Well...it seems to have something to do with fleet fuel consumption and future legislations.

    Sad... Smiley

    Oh...I have more: The Panamera GTS will also be available as a facelift but I do not know what engine it will use. Car should be available November 2013 in certain markets.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    This is not good news....at least it doesn't seem like it right now


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    It also seems to be clear that the next Panamera generation is due early, already in 2015. This is of course a rumor but  a strong one and it is getting stronger.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    So that means (to me at least) that if somebody wants to ride the Panamera GTS model cycle with a change in a few  years then it makes sense to go for a facelift in 2013-14 & then wait for the Gen II GTS in 2017-18


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    Upsa:

    So that means (to me at least) that if somebody wants to ride the Panamera GTS model cycle with a change in a few  years then it makes sense to go for a facelift in 2013-14 & then wait for the Gen II GTS in 2017-18

    You mean the facelift of the 2nd generation. Smiley

    Yep...would make sense to me. However...I'm not sure I would buy a car which may be on the market for two years only. The next Panamera generation will be lighter and with a less massive look according to rumors.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    Very sad, at the end fuel consumption is mainly depending on your right foot. It does make the turbo models more exclusive and desirable going forward (because of the V8)


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

    Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    I don't know, I kind of get the feeling that the new V6 turbo has something to do with the Macan too. If they are using the same engine base on the Macan, the Cayenne and the Panamera, this could save Porsche millions...just saying. The V8 would not really be suitable for the Macan, so maybe this is also one of the reasons they abandon the N/A V8.

    This strategy makes sense from a cost saving point of view, maybe...but I kind of find it strange to spend 130k EUR (with options) on a Panamera 4S with a V6 Turbo engine. Sorry, not really my cup of tea. I still think that Porsche is taking a huge risk here, especially on their classic V8 markets but maybe I am wrong.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    There are less and less V8 on the market. Most people won't care to trade a N/A V8 for a good turbo V6 especially is mpg goes way up...


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    RC:

    This strategy makes sense from a cost saving point of view, maybe...but I kind of find it strange to spend 130k EUR (with options) on a Panamera 4S with a V6 Turbo engine. Sorry, not really my cup of tea. I still think that Porsche is taking a huge risk here, especially on their classic V8 markets but maybe I am wrong.

     completely agree ..

    a V6 Panamera is not right, just like a V6 AMG is not right


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    If the GTS would still use the n/a-V8 engine, it would be possible to differentiate it further from the regular S models.


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    Ferdie:

    If the GTS would still use the n/a-V8 engine, it would be possible to differentiate it further from the regular S models.

    Not sure if they really would keep the N/A V8 for a single model (or maybe two, incl. the Cayenne GTS), this would be quite expensive I think.

    I am pretty sure that the power bump will the substantial to tone down the critics, I heard power figures from 430 to even 450 hp for the V6 Turbo (430-440 hp are more likely though) and it is no secret that turbo charged engines always produce a little bit more power than their N/A peers with the same power specs.

    I also heard about 540-550 hp for the next Turbo lately, which is quite a surprise because the rumored indicated only a mild 20-30 hp bump in the beginning.

    The Turbo S is even rumored at up to 600 hp (latest reliable rumor was 580), so things are getting interesting.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    what the heck is going on there.... I mean - a V8 is a V8! Economic reasons for a car in that class - weird? You cant even burn that much fuel than you have loose of value - in other words, it will not be a game changer in maintenance costs at all. Further on - if you want to be environmentally friendly do it on those cars you are going to see by thousands in the traffic and not by the car you hardly see in the wild space!


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    RC, why is a V6 turbo so bad?  It should have plenty of torque and probably better performance than the non-blown V8.  

    I am more puzzled by the early 2015 second generation.  Why would anyone get a FL (with deliveries in summer or fall of 2013) with a substantially different car coming only two years hence?


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    This is an unfortunate artifact of the various climate change initiatives in most countries and regions.  Stricter fuel economy standards and tighter emission standards, with dramatic reductions in CO2 emission levels, means that many cars will become emasculated with a corresponding reducing in displacement and cylinders.  The automakers are attempting to reduce the performance pain through high technology, and thus costly,  solutions but these are mere bandaids to pass through the regulatory spider webs.  

    In the United States, several loopholes exist, and we can see that Porsche has made efforts to take advantage of those loopholes.  A few years ago, the current administration and the Senate attempted to pass a carbon-tax bill without success.  However, using regulations through the EPA, a carbon-tax was effectively levied on the auto manufacturers; no longer can an auto maker pay a fine for missing the CAFE standards, that automaker must purchase credits from another automaker.  But, as I have mentioned, several loopholes are in the new EPA fuel economy standards.  Cars that are plug-in hybrids and/or are fueled by alternate energy sources, receive credits toward meeting the fuel economy standards for that class of vehicle.  Furthermore, the fuel economy bands decrease with corresponding increase in a vehicle's footprint.  This helps to keep SUVs and small trucks as a viable segment of the market.  This also helps to explain why the 991 grew in wheelbase, that change moved the 991 into a less stringent fuel economy band.  

    While many auto enthusiasts relish the prospects of the forced injection performance car, while I mourn its passing.


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    Sad, very sad! I ever liked the V8 in all cars since my earliest youth. Well, from this point of view I'm happy even with the new and modern BMW V8, with 450 PS and an ECE consumption of 9,9 litres. (0-100 km/h 4,5 sec) Maybe BMW understand better customers demands.
    --

    Kind regards, Conny 



    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW Grand Coupe 650i xDrive


     

    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    I have predicted this 6 months ago! 


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    I think there will be 3 V8s. GTS, Turbo and Turbo S for the demanding/sporty customer.

    For others who use the Panamera as a luxurious means of transport in daily life and in the speed limited world, the V6s will be more than sufficient. Porsche know their customers in their entirety more than we do.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    Who is going to buy a V8 that is probably slower and less fuel efficient than a V6 turbo?

    Sorry but the days of the N/A V8 are over. Also having V8 in current turbo models only will help Porsche justify the huge premium it charges to go from the S to the turbo. Lastly all the competition is going V6 turbo int heir mid range models, it makes it easier for costumers to accept it.

    One more killer argument: 6 cylinder is good enough for their most sporty car, the 911. So why not for the Panamera and Cayenne? 


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    Makes a lot of sense SciFrog kiss


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    it was my understanding that the GTS was coming out right off and it too would have the TTv6 engine. interesting that it isn't just the North american dealors telling people now.

    this change should make these last V8 GTS' a little something special and eclipse the brief life of the refreshed GTS assuming the Gen II comes out as quickly as suggested.

    the tourque and sound of these V8 GTS' will not be duplicated in a TTv6 engine so i think a lot of people would grab a V8 over a TTv6. so you use 13 l/100 instead of 10 l /100 - that is the least of the costs of ownership in these cars.


    --

    2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold / 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual /2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    SciFrog:


    Who is going to buy a V8 that is probably slower and less fuel efficient than a V6 turbo?



    Sorry but the days of the N/A V8 are over. Also having V8 in current turbo models only will help Porsche justify the huge premium it charges to go from the S to the turbo. Lastly all the competition is going V6 turbo int heir mid range models, it makes it easier for costumers to accept it.



    One more killer argument: 6 cylinder is good enough for their most sporty car, the 911. So why not for the Panamera and Cayenne? 





    If I go to buy a Porsche I don't look for efficiency but for fun, sound and sporty surroundings. And yes, Porsche MUST justify the premium charge. This the the only trigger to buy a Porsche so why should I drive a 6 cyl. turbo in a Panamera?
    IMHO you can't compare the 911 with the Panamera body. Each to it's own.

    --

    Kind regards, Conny 



    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW Grand Coupe 650i xDrive


     

    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    V6 Turbo can be more fun than V8NA if it's made well and new technology is used (trip-turbo for example).

    When you are paying $800+/month in fuel costs most drivers would care about a 20% improvement in fuel economy.  Panamera is a DD for most car buyers.  Depending on where you live and how much you drive the fuel spend is still substantial.  Most people lease their cars, when you can save $200 in fuel costs it can buy you $20k more of a car in options.  You gotta change with the changing world.


    --

     

    2012 Cayenne TT, 2014 Panamera TT facelift on order :)

    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    Well I really see a trend where people start to care about the mpg... Even in high end luxury cars. One fun fact: in many gas stations around us you can't put more than $75 or $100 at the pump using a credit card, not enough to fill up the tank.. That is very annoying. And people start considering diesel as an alternative, something kind of new...


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    $800 a month on fuel in Canada - if you are doing 4,500km a month in your car, you don't use your Porsche; you use something, h@ll, anything else.


    --

    2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold / 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual /2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    In Montreal the cost of gas is about $1.50-$1.60/L for premium.  On a normal week, I do a full tank fill-up and it costs me ~$150, that is $675/month.  I do not drive that much, but all of it is city driving.  I have a Cayenne and I want to drive that, why would I get anything else to go places? :)   Here is how the L/100km is calculated:  I go about 350km/week in the city,  the car consumes in the range of 25L/100KM - cold weather + winter tires + sport driving + city driving :)

    I wish that Porsche would do a fully electric plug-in panamera in 2015.  I am fed up of paying for gas that supports muslim countries that support terrorism and for this whole worldwide drilling/transportation/refining/transportation/burning of oil/gasoline that damages the earth.  Politically and future-wise oil is bad, so consuming less of it is better* ;)  There is Cadillac ESV coming, and to some it looks like a great car, but once you own a Porsche you're desiring a whole new level of interior/exterior and driving dynamics.

    SciFrog - yep, $100 maximum when you want to fill $150 of gas.   Can't pay at the pump, and you have to prepay -  you go inside and try to pay cash so it goes quicker and they do not accept $50 or $100 bills, then you pay with a card, they ask you how much you want to pay, you say $150, process it, then fill $146 worth of gas, go back to get $4 back on your card.... FUN!!!

    * Having said that I have to admit that I love burning gas and hear it through a loud exhaust and feel the ramble of the engine just like everyone here, but as I said earlier - gotta change in the changing world.


    --

     

    2012 Cayenne TT, 2014 Panamera TT facelift on order :)

    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    Some gas stations here limit fuel to $75, but only because some crooks use fake or overspent credit cards.  If you want more than $75, just process your card again after the first fueling is complete.  No big deal, guys...


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    We didnt discuss whats the motor at all - I guess we will see a Audi 3.0 TFSI derivate?


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    Turbo V6 seems better than n/a V8 for a car like that to me.  It's not like instantaneous throttle response it that critical for a front-engined limo like that and the added torque of turbos (with aftermarket tuning potential) seems like a bonus (especially where I live at high altitude).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    SciFrog:

    Who is going to buy a V8 that is probably slower and less fuel efficient than a V6 turbo?

    Sorry but the days of the N/A V8 are over. Also having V8 in current turbo models only will help Porsche justify the huge premium it charges to go from the S to the turbo. Lastly all the competition is going V6 turbo int heir mid range models, it makes it easier for costumers to accept it.

    One more killer argument: 6 cylinder is good enough for their most sporty car, the 911. So why not for the Panamera and Cayenne? 

    I tend to agree - as long as the performance can be kept stable or improved higher efficiency is key for any OEM who wants to survive. Many who complain about 6 cylinders today might - in retrospect at a future date - appear similar to those who complained about ABS, power steering, ESM etc. in the past. One has to move on Smiley


    Re: No more V8 in the Panamera S...confirmed?

    Haven't M-B, BMW and Audi done the same. Times are changing.

    Just, how do Porsche name a V6 turbo and how the "real" V8 turbo? The "Turbo" tag will be like it used to be.


    --

    "Form follows function"


     
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