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    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    Before my current Cayenne TTS, I drove a 997C2s, and before that a 996TT.  In some ways I "felt" safer in the smaller, more nimble cars--quicker avoidance of accidents, better feel for the road.  But overall, I "feel" safer in the Cayenne, with its heavier protection around me.  In the U.S. there are so many larger cars and SUVs, that the smaller cars seem more vulnerable (and probably are) in a collision with a larger car. 


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    I fully agree. Even in Europe, a SUV feels safer. I remember when I rented a 4-door middleclass sedan in the US, I switched to a SUV after two days because my wife was nagging me about safety. To be honest: it was a HUGE different regarding safety FEEL, especially with those huge trucks and monster SUVs on the highway.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    yeah, with german suv's i agree.

    look at the explorers....roll over for 'almost' no reason and now cruise control seems to 'stick'

    a golf is safer than an explorer or suburban in case of impact i am pretty sure.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    intouch1:

    yeah, with german suv's i agree.

    look at the explorers....roll over for 'almost' no reason and now cruise control seems to 'stick'

    a golf is safer than an explorer or suburban in case of impact i am pretty sure.

    The Explorer problem was lazy owners not checking their tire pressures.  A tire blowout in a high center of gravity car will more probably lead to roll-over.

    So what was the response in the U.S.?  The usual spiral of responsibility avoidance.

    The same I-don't-check-my-tire-pressures owners sue Ford and Firestone, the primary tire maker for Ford.  Ford says, we aren't responsible for tires that don't get checked or people that make overly dramatic moves in a high CG SUV.  Firestone says tires must be properly inflated.  Both true.

    So what is the U.S. Congress' response?  Pass legislation making tire pressure monitoring mandatory on cars sold in the U.S. in 2008.

    The result, I go to buy snow tires for my 2008 car, and have to pay $280 for a set of four Bosch TPMS transducers, above and beyond the price for the wheels and tires.  All because some people were too lazy to check their tires and understand the dynamics of their chosen vehicle.

    Legislation cannot mitigate foolishness and lack of personal responsibility.  The judge should have said, "Check your tires, perhaps get some driving instruction.  Case dismissed." 

    The list of long and stupid add-ons to U.S. cars never quits.  Key door chimes/buzzers.  5 MPH "bumpers".  DRLs, decals warning about airbags on visors, hanging warning tags on the passenger seats warning about air bags, a warning screen on navigation systems telling you not to use the nav while the car is in motion,  the list goes on and on.  There was the ignition seat belt interlock of 1974, an unlatched seatbelt, and the car wouldn't start.  They were circumvented right away.

    It's not just cars, I was in the market today, and each cart has a placard warning parents not to allow kids to stand in the cart, serious injury could result.  Oh, really?  Everything has a lawyer-warning on it, from plastic bags to beer.

    The Explorer situation is quite different than the Ford Pinto, see:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto#Safety_problems_and_scandal

     


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    i was aware of those facts. however, i am sure german cars are safer because they put a lot of effort into making them crashsafe.

    most US cars are designed for a 60mph speed limit. hence their soft suspension and ridiculous brakes.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

     There are a few things that have been worthwhile, the side guard door beams comes to mind, maybe the high-mounted third stoplight.  I'd much prefer a TuV certification to the US DOT.

    The majority of the U.S. public wants comfort, they're not enthusiasts who take driving seriously and want to interact with their car and the road, one need only look at how many are talking on cell phones.

    While the Germans don't downgrade their braking system, they generally use softer pads on the U.S. cars, with more brake dust, but less squeal.  At the Panamera introduction at Road America (the closest thing we have to Spa) this October:

    http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Road_America#Introduction

    the U.S. spec pads were such that after a couple of quick laps, a friend of mine noted a steady stream of smoke (not a F1 cloud, but notable) coming out of the front wheels of the Panamera Turbo when parked, not to mention mushy response, probably due to boiled fluid.  He suggested that they should have used the German spec pads, not the U.S. pads on a track.


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    Being used to being inside MBTs, all cars and trucks feel a bit feeble to me...  


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

     RC,

    I have read this whole thread, and with all respect, you are all over the map in your considerations and rationalizations.

    I am not an MD, but it obvious you have a fever... new car fever!  

    How can I be so sure?

    Well, I do the same thing frequently, and am in the same process, spent the last week pondering and playing with options... CTTS or Panamera to replace my 05 CTT (even though my wife likes being high up and the 05 has an extended warranty to 2012 or 100K, currently at 35K).  But it gets worse maybe a C4S instead( but I already have an RS (and a new one on order) and 997.2).

    I bought a Black Series CLK 6.3 because I loved the growl...but Porsche came out with PDK and I had to have it, even though I am a 6 speed die hard. Proof..my F430 is a 6 speed. I loved the Black Series too but it was not a 911 (its only fault). I will eventually sell the F430 too, because I decided awhile ago to stay all Porsche.... easier for service and maintaining relationships, getting cars etc.. and the F458 while a technological marvel fails to excite me (too much like a Lambo!, or maybe it is the lack of Pirelli tires (j/k).. I went to Frankfurt to see it and the new RS color in the flesh! 

    Over many years I have gone back and forth with various marques but I always come back to Porsche (hence the above decision to go exclusive). Porsche simply represents the best all around automotive experience when all things are considered... at least it has worked out that way for me, but to each his own. Some might consider that myopic thinking, others might consider it evolved. Whatever works!

    Reading through al the posts, I think you are going to finish up with a "debadged" Panamera! Provocative thoughts maybe, but insightful hopefully. I have spent countless hours on this and when you marry the driving experience with the space needs the Panamera presents a powerful argument..if the budget supports it... and it is no harder to park than a CTT. Plus, if I had the Autobahn to exercise it..well resistance it futile

    Do not read this as a "know it all" post.  

    At worst, it is a poorly expressed opinion; and at best, it is a non critical observation which could be food for thought. Examples of cars owned are only provided to give weight to the extent of thinking and deliberation that I can empathize with (so no flames please).

    You can rationalize anything!

    For the fever, take two asprins, and have a nap!

    The asprins won't do any good, but you might enjoy the nap (and dream about that Panamera).

    Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

     

     


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    You're completely right, I had new car fever.

    I was thinking about getting the Panamera Turbo and my dealer might even have gotten me a nice deal but I just couldn't justify doing it for various reasons. Most important reason: no matter how much I would de-badge the Panamera, it would still be HUGE and a Porsche.

    The Panamera is NOT the right car at the moment for somebody like me, I love driving it and it is a technical masterpiece but my customers, neighbors, etc. would have something to gossip about and this can't be a good thing.

    I talked to many people around me, including my wife, my kids and some friends. I think the X5 M I've chosen is the perfect choice for my needs, especially since I still have the 997 Turbo for another 18 months. After these 18 months, I can still decide if I'm going for another Porsche sportscar or not.

    Yes, buying a fun car is not necessarily a rational decision but this never was about buying a fun car, this was about buying a FAMILY car. For most people on this planet, my "family" car(s) would be a fun car too by definition but I'm a little bit picky in that domain.

    If money and customers/neighbors weren't an issue, I would have probably ended with a Panamera Turbo, a X5 M (still) and a GT3 RS. A Lamborhini Murcielago wouldn't hurt either.  Well...since money matters and customers/neighbors too, as much as I don't like it, the decision taking the BMW X5 M was extremely rational from any point of view. I even deleted two or three options I actually wanted because I didn't want total cost to get out of proportions. On a real fun car, I probably wouldn't have done that.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

     Of course you had new car fever...like most of us around here a trip to dr. freud's couch when it comes to emotions of this thing would probably be in order...I believe that in fact this from the reptile old part of our brains...we want it but we don't know why....rationalities aside...congrats on the X5 M.. 

    Currently I am torturing myself over whether to get an X5 M or a 993 turbo R I found....I even have been considering an E 63 as well... its enough to drive a fella to drink...and

    of course all this is because I am working on a pretty interesting 73 911 hot rod project and I need something to drive everyday...in and out of the city...

    I take all thoughts and suggestions Dr.


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

     ^

    Keep drinking!

     

     


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    Good decision RC.  You will have a good car, and a residual yearning for another Porsche.  Nice dream, which will become a reality next year or so.  Delayed gratification...


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

     How did you find comfort of the seats ?

     


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    The seats were actually OK but so were the M3 Cab seats too...until I drove to Italy in them and had the worst backpain in my life. Even worse: my family felt the same and especially the rear seats were absolutely horrible for the kids.

    The X5 M of course has different seats and the rear seats are larger but I can't exclude that the comfort on longer trips isn't too good either.

    I need to drive the X5 M for a longer period of time to draw a conclusion about seating comfort, sorry.

    What also bugs me is the 5000 km run-in period. I talked to a BMW engineer I know pretty well, the very same who took me in his 5 series mule for a ride (I posted photos in another thread). He claims that the run-in period for the X5 M is ESSENTIAL and that the new twin turbo engine is very very sensitive regarding the run-in period. So is the 4WD system which has been adapted to the new power/torque figures.

    He actually advised me to keep it below 150 kph and 5000 rpm for the very first 500 km. Then I can raise it to 180 kph and 6000 rpm for the next 1500 km but no kickdown allowed, not at ANY time. From 2000 km to 3000 km, I should keep the engine rev below the yellow line most of the time and after 3000 km, I can slowly start to drive faster but no top speed (at 2000 km, the 275 kph speed limit raise will be installed) and kick down only from time to time. I also need to be careful with driving in snow because the 4WD system needs the same run-in time for various reasons. This really sucks, I actually never thought that this is going to be THAT serious. He also recommends driving during run-in in manual mode to execute more gear changes and to avoid too much boost pressure if the gear is too high for the actual speed. Launch control usage is also completely prohibited during the first 5000 km (it will be recorded to the engine blackbox, speedo cluster and car key...setting just a little "flag" but enough to identify the culprit, so you're in trouble if the engine breaks down during the first 5000 km, caution) but the good news is that the X5 M doesn't necessarily accelerate better with launch control if you activate MDM and the Sport setting.

    An interesting fact, btw: did you guys know that the X5 M accelerates from 0-40 kph faster than a Lamborghini Gallardo LP560 ? This proves how well the X5 M starts off from standstill.

    Getting over with the first 5000 km will be a pain in the a.. I'm afraid.

     


    --
     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    5.000km? a lot of km and time...but if this preserve mechanics..it's better and makes this period less tough!


    --
    Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    andrea:

    5.000km? a lot of km and time...but if this preserve mechanics..it's better and makes this period less tough!

     

    Not only does it "preserve", according to my source, the power output will be better too if run-in properly.
    Lucky me I've chosen the BMW Individual HiFi Stereo system, so at least I can listen to some nice music while "suffering" during the first 5000 km.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    RC:
    andrea:

    5.000km? a lot of km and time...but if this preserve mechanics..it's better and makes this period less tough!

     

    Not only does it "preserve", according to my source, the power output will be better too if run-in properly.
    Lucky me I've chosen the BMW Individual HiFi Stereo system, so at least I can listen to some nice music while "suffering" during the first 5000 km.

     

    Yes I guess the main target of this run-in is to deliver the max possible output...I suppose it will enter in a "protection mode" with less hp available if the run-in is not well done...


    --
    Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    andrea:
    RC:
    andrea:

    5.000km? a lot of km and time...but if this preserve mechanics..it's better and makes this period less tough!

     

    Not only does it "preserve", according to my source, the power output will be better too if run-in properly.
    Lucky me I've chosen the BMW Individual HiFi Stereo system, so at least I can listen to some nice music while "suffering" during the first 5000 km.

     

    Yes I guess the main target of this run-in is to deliver the max possible output...I suppose it will enter in a "protection mode" with less hp available if the run-in is not well done...

    This run-in period sounds like a major and crucial task.  Good luck, I hope everything will go well! Smiley  And yes good choice indeed to have gone for the upgraded hifi system.  Smiley Smiley


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    ouch....that's not good. the tach on my current X6M reads 3,500 kms after a year of ownership......

    guess i will be the one to report how the car behaves when break-in procedure is NOT followed...

    could it not be that these drive-in procedures are the wa of BMW telling the buyer to take it easy until used to the car.

     


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    btw....i specced ventilated comfort seats cause i think that they are better than the standard M seats which might be too tough for a daily driver.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    ...just in case, you havn't read this:

    de.cars.yahoo.com/08072009/348/gelaende-sportler-bmw-x6-m-test.html

    Its one of the very early  "impressions" but similar to my own experience with the X5M.
    (german language)
     


    --
    Kind regards, Conny 
    More pics: http://www.dayboox.com/group/Connys%20Galerie
    Porsche 997 Turbo * Porsche Cayenne GTS * BMW X5M
     

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    Conny, this is an article from german Auto News, sold to many many german web magazines.

    They offer some sort of article service where they prepare the article and review and others can pay for just using the content word for word and photo by photo. Nice service but pretty lame of other websites to use this stating it is their own.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    ..sorry for this.
    I knew that wasn't the latest news, but as I wrote close to my own impressions


    --
    Kind regards, Conny 
    More pics: http://www.dayboox.com/group/Connys%20Galerie
    Porsche 997 Turbo * Porsche Cayenne GTS * BMW X5M
     

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    Conny997:

    ..sorry for this.
    I knew that wasn't the latest news, but as I wrote close to my own impressions

     

    Why would you need to be sorry, the review is actually pretty good but I was very upset when I read the same review, they haven't even changed a bit of text, in almost half a dozend of german internet publications. A real shame...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

     From Italian magazine "Auto":

    X6M:

    0-60kph 2.37sec

    0-80 3.44

    0-100 4.81

    0-120 6.39

    0-140 8.05

    0-160 10.40

    0-180  12.90

    0-1000m 23.29-229.7 kph

    80-120 3.00

    80-140 4.68

    80-160 7.13

    80-180 9.72

    Lap time : X6M 2.59.30  Cayenne GTS 3.03.41 

     

     

     

     


    --
    Bye!


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    am now at 2300 km's on my x6m and feel the exhaust getting noticeably more aggressive....just me ?

    i had one exhaust butterfly get stuck open at around 1500 kms...was an easy diy fix. so they are functioning properly. the growl just got much more aggressive now at 2300 kms.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    The exhaust gets a slightly lower tone growl in the lower rev range after some while but the sound still sucks.   I usually enjoy my cars with the ears too, so the bad exhaust sound could be the reason that this is going to be my last X5 M or M SUV. 
    Otherwise, I'm very happy  with my X5 M. I already have almost 8000 km on the truck, no issues whatsoever so far, nothing. Can't wait to see how this thing handles on snow, I ordered a special wheel set from BMW with "H" tires instead of the "V" tires they usually offer. Wasn't easy though since they offer a whole package at a reduced price.

    I guess there is no need for winter tires at the Red Sea.  


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    I'm just at 16.000 km and with no mentionable probs so far exept of a malfunction of the DynamicDrive control unit at km 3.000. They changed it and it was fine afterwards.
    My average consumption is by 18,2 l/100 km, with 50% city traffic and the rest on the german Autobahn.
    The exhaust sound is weak as before and no remedy in sight Smiley
    Kind of funny:
    The best of the X5M is the powerful acceleration and it remains as one of the most powerful SUV in the world, but since I've got the Turbo S the felt acceleration with the X5M almost bored me.
    Something must be wrong with my feelings....Smiley
     


    --
    Kind regards, Conny 

    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW X5 M
     

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    Conny997:

    The best of the X5M is the powerful acceleration and it remains as one of the most powerful SUV in the world, but since I've got the Turbo S the felt acceleration with the X5M almost bored me.
    Something must be wrong with my feelings....Smiley


    Spoiled by power. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


     
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