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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    What's autopilot and recalling FSD got to do with carbon free progress?

    Tesla pretty much side stepped and short circuit existing regulations, Musk think he is above the law. Well it had been proven that he isn't and this might as well be another example.

    Right now there isn't enough safeguards regarding the Tesla system, and whatever measures they came up with is easily defeated with 5 seconds of googling.

    It's like designing a steak knife that has a razor blade handle, but put on a sticker saying one needs to be careful about cutting yourself when holding the knife. Some people will be careful when using it but there will always be people that aren't. So why not change the handle to a safer design, like how NTSB is asking Tesla to design a safer system.

     

    The googling merely allows you to cheat your score. You don’t get fsd unless you paid the $10k or for the subscription and then you are in a beta program which they monitor and kick you out t of it you abuse it. You can even abuse the standard autopilot for a few minutes and they turn it off until the next drive to put you in time out.  They now also use the inside camera for the beta program which you guys always insisted they do. 
    Happy to provide the additional information so you are better informed. As mentioned there is a political effort in place. You can chose to feed it or you can have nice things. 


    Re: Tesla

    You pay the 10k then you can get in the Beta program, and if the score isn't perfect you get kicked out, hence why people are reseting the score before they got uploaded. 

    Which is the whole point of this discussion. The safety bar isn't set high enough, a simple googling can cheat the system. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    Temperatures make a huge difference. Even last weekend going to Austin and back I could see range impacted by the 55 degrees we left vs the almost 90 in Austin.  In nice weather my car can easily do 260 miles at 75-80 so I’m not certain what happened here.  Not a big deal for me, same with charging speed, since my use find the range well within needs. 
    Still not certain that bragging rights apply for beating EPA estimate if it is still less miles. Lol. Sure is funny though since everything else is off the table like speed, tech and price. 

     

    Ah, talking about weather difference.

     

     

    Screen Shot 2021-10-27 at 10.09.14 PM.png

    Even in that kind of condition, the Taycan 4S pretty much matched what the EPA rated it to, 215 mils vs 213 miles. 

    Wonder how much worse a Tesla will do against it's rating in such a condition?


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    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

     

    The googling merely allows you to cheat your score. You don’t get fsd unless you paid the $10k or for the subscription and then you are in a beta program which they monitor and kick you out t of it you abuse it. You can even abuse the standard autopilot for a few minutes and they turn it off until the next drive to put you in time out.  They now also use the inside camera for the beta program which you guys always insisted they do. 
    Happy to provide the additional information so you are better informed. As mentioned there is a political effort in place. You can chose to feed it or you can have nice things. 

     

    There is nothing political about it, we are well into another party rule already and the same issues still got raised. 

    Here is an actual Tesla owner describing the FSD beta. Not. Even. Close. To. Ready.

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Meanwhile - as you worry if people who paid their money are somehow cheating - what is the accident rate?  What exactly are you afraid of?  In the city FSD positively creeps along. I works but it is a slow beta. No one is going to get hurt at those speeds.   Plus average Tesla car has dozens of safety nets other cars don’t even consider.  FSD in the city is just a slow toy right now. I would not want to use it and I have not even signed up for the beta but the ability for it to drive you down the highway is unrivaled. 

    It is difficult to discuss since you add so much repetitive wrong information.  For instance - once you are in the beta program they can turn it off and no hack will get them to turn it back on. Where do you even dream this stuff up from?

    I get that Elon’s success seems to set you off. It is starting to look a bit ridiculous actually. 
     

    Political yes. Trump had no problem with Elon. Those in the government do and the union loving democrats certainly do.   To say this is not political is to believe Ford and GM are leading the EV revolution.   I can’t stop laughing. 
     

    Why not bash every other car maker for all the Tesla safety features they don’t have?  Why don’t we just skip all reason and accuse them of murder of thousands of people in exchange for profit?  Silly right?  
     


    Re: Tesla

    Get your head out of the sand, no one is blindly bashing Tesla and Elon. Criticisms are coming from all sides.

    Under Trump, NTSB was just as hard on Tesla's lack of transparency on their supposedly 'safety' features. Many investigations are still on going which were started under Trump. And wasn't it under Trump when the SEC sanctioned Elon?

    The union thing however is a trademark of the Democrats. 

    Did you even watch or read anything posted or published? The whole point of resetting the system and the score before uploading is to avoid getting kicked out of the beta program, and the hack is still working and ongoing. 🤦🏻‍♂️

    And from Kyle's video, FSD isn't even close to beta, it's more like an alpha build still. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    You have to give it to Musk swindler skills, he has been selling since 5 years ago an extra option to a legion on minions knowing full well like everybody else that is not drinking the cool-aid that won't exist during their car's lifetime... priceless.


    Re: Tesla

    October 26th provided that the automobile equipped with an internal combustion engine is far from dead with the debut of the 2023 Corvette Z06 and the end of the embargo on the first drives of the Audi RS3. The ever stunning Range Rover made its debut that day too. Amazingly, as General Motor announces its transition to EVs it is producing some of its best cars, and possibly some of the top cars currently available today.  

    The Cadillac CT5-V with a manual transmission is a surprise and the new Vette with a flat plane crank V8 is the cream of the current crop of performance cars.  While looks for the new mid engine Corvette may be challenging to a few, it is unabashedly American.  Even the European press have found favor with the new car.  

    Returning to the topic of this thread, one reviewer of the new Audi RS3 summed it up correctly-why test the level 2 self driving systems when a car like this is so great to drive? 


    Re: Tesla

    The  Corvette and the manual Cadillac are amazing and certainly something fun to drive. So is the Audi.  


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    Get your head out of the sand, no one is blindly bashing Tesla and Elon. Criticisms are coming from all sides.

    Under Trump, NTSB was just as hard on Tesla's lack of transparency on their supposedly 'safety' features. Many investigations are still on going which were started under Trump. And wasn't it under Trump when the SEC sanctioned Elon?

    The union thing however is a trademark of the Democrats. 

    Did you even watch or read anything posted or published? The whole point of resetting the system and the score before uploading is to avoid getting kicked out of the beta program, and the hack is still working and ongoing. 🤦🏻‍♂️

    And from Kyle's video, FSD isn't even close to beta, it's more like an alpha build still. 

     

     

    The SEC and NTSB are run by career employees and I doubt Trump could help much there. The push for lower taxes less regulation and no forced union partnership made Elon’s relationship with Trump far different than what we see now.  Democrats are not even proud to have Tesla in America. I get why he moved to Texas.  
    In terms of FSD beta - it is too slow to be useful or dangerous. He is getting lots of free advertising and living rent free in his oppositions heads. No one who buys a Tesla or drives one thinks it is self driving any more than you think the detergent on your self is the worlds best.  Not a single Tesla owner has come forward thinking the car could drive itself and wanted their money back. Those who buy are investing in something they think will be of exceptional value someday. I think they are a bit early and should have bought stock instead. 
    The actual Tesla safety record is world class and we should worry more about losing lives due to halting this type of progress. 


    Re: Tesla

    It is really nice to see how hard you go on the defensive when something that's not positive is said about Tesla, not even Elon is spending as much time and effort just to find some garbage arguments to justify his cars. 

    There really is no need for that. Tesla is just another car company. They make cars. People buy them. They aren't the worse thing in the world but they also aren't the best. They aren't for everyone. For some they are perfect car, good for them. For others, Teslas are a major fail to their standard. 

    Life is really that simple. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Not a single Tesla owner has come forward thinking the car could drive itself and wanted their money back. Those who buy are investing in something they think will be of exceptional value someday. 

     

    https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/q29gbw/this_month_marks_5_years_since_tesla_started/?utm_medium=android_app&a...

    1331921569018Popcorn_Smiley_by_Probocaster.gif


    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:
    Leawood911:
    Not a single Tesla owner has come forward thinking the car could drive itself and wanted their money back. Those who buy are investing in something they think will be of exceptional value someday. 

     

    https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/q29gbw/this_month_marks_5_years_since_tesla_started/?utm_medium=android_app&a...

    1331921569018Popcorn_Smiley_by_Probocaster.gif

     

    When you are blinded by the sun, everything is white..........they can't hear other people around them yelling they are standing on green grass, its' still white to them. 

    It's human nature, easily swayed by prejudice. 


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Leawood911:
    Not a single Tesla owner has come forward thinking the car could drive itself and wanted their money back. Those who buy are investing in something they think will be of exceptional value someday. 

     

    https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/q29gbw/this_month_marks_5_years_since_tesla_started/?utm_medium=android_app&a...

    1331921569018Popcorn_Smiley_by_Probocaster.gif

     

    When you are blinded by the sun, everything is white..........they can't hear other people around them yelling they are standing on green grass, its' still white to them. 

    It's human nature, easily swayed by prejudice. 

    Okay I was wrong. I meant that no one who owns the car bought it thinking it was currently self driving.  Those who want their money back - I get that totally. But it is because they are tired of waiting not because they were tricked into thinking that capability currently existed.  
    Hard to fathom how one person or even many wanting their money back should translate into the technology being outlawed or ignoring the obvious safety benefit.  If people are not happy and want their money back it should be a stark lesson to others to not buy it as well. Simple. It is called work of mouth and consumer feedback. 
    So far demand shows me that Tesla is making actual customers very happy with many others eager to get one. I’m happy too.  The people who are not happy are the competition and those who can’t get one. Amazing problem to have.  If I was a car company and my competition hated me and even spent time on boards like this being frustrated I would laugh it off.  Ha ha ha. 
    Oh well. You guys can flame me all you want. Bias works both ways. So far Tesla is winning so big that I can’t wait until you guys post some more of your outrage. Lol. 


    Re: Tesla

    Dont understand why you get so defensive to the point of arguing for arguing's sake at every post and this "us vs them" mentality.

    Sharing opinions or criticizing things Tesla does bad does not mean wanting Tesla to lose or fail. In real life I'm totally indifferent to Tesla, doesn't affect me in any way, no more than Hyundai of Ford does.

    There is no outrage anywhere here, most people here couldn't care less about Tesla outside of crossing posts with other members in this forum which sometimes touches on Tesla topics.

    The thing is Musk has been touting it's FSD as imminent and charging for it beforehand when he knew it would be years until it was ready, it's been already and it's nowhere near, two years ago he told them with a straight face that in one year they could be using their cars as robotaxies. That was last year. You can blame those stupid enough to believe Musk and but into it, but it's still wrong, it's a con. Just life taking deposits for cars you know you are not going to build no where near the time you promised (if at all) like the roadster or cybertruck.

    And to sell those vaporware FSD's and market their cars they purposely and misleadingly market their autopilot as almost self driving, that is why they have been so hesitant to install real effective measures that prohibit the user to misuse the autopilot in that fashion, because that would go against that impression they want to give. 

    It's things like these that people are going to criticize,  which I think is healthier than making up excuses for them instead.

    You also have to realize that Teslas are not going to be the most popular cars in this forum of sportscar enthusiasts, it's only logical, that is not is target audience, and not necessarily because they are EVs, Teslas are made for other people in mind.

    Nothing against your Model3 Leawood, it's just a car, and like any other car, some will love it and others not. There important thing is that is makes you happy. Don't take criticisms of Tesla so seriously and put people into two sides.


    Re: Tesla

    A bit of related news for taxi cab drivers...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    "Hertz Teams With Uber, Carvana in Big Shift to Electric Cars"

    (27 October 2021)

    (Bloomberg) -- Hertz Global Holdings Inc, fresh off a blockbuster order for 100,000 Teslas, reached an exclusive agreement to supply Uber drivers with electric vehicles and signed up Carvana Co to dispose of rental cars it no longer wants.

    Taken together, the deals represent a trifecta of aggressive and innovative initiatives with the potential to upend the car-rental business and hasten the transition to greener transportation. The order for Model 3s on Monday, the largest-ever for EVs at $4.2 billion, was such a watershed moment that it propelled Tesla Inc’s valuation past $1 trillion.

    Just as surprising: The company behind it all is barely out of bankruptcy. Only 17 months ago, with the Covid-19 pandemic raging, Estero, Florida-based Hertz was so troubled and its future so uncertain that it sought protection from creditors. Now, under the control of hedge fund and private-equity owners, Hertz is leaning on mobile technology and digitization to transform a stodgy industry known for uninspiring cars and poor customer experiences.

    “Our approach is very strategic and very deliberate in terms of how we want to disrupt ourselves and, hopefully, disrupt the industry,” Mark Fields, who’s serving as interim chief executive officer at Hertz, said in an interview. “Instead of asking why, we’re asking why not.”

    Under the agreement with Uber Technologies Inc, drivers for the ride-hailing giant who previously had to provide and maintain their own EVs will be able to rent one of 50,000 Teslas from Hertz instead. The program, which starts Nov. 1, is an alternative to buying or leasing, and many drivers may find it more appealing.

    Had Uber bought and rented out the Teslas itself, some states might classify drivers as employees. The arrangement with Hertz allows Uber to increase the number of rides taken on EVs without having to change its business model.

    “Now is the time to drive a green recovery from the pandemic,” Dara Khosrowshahi, chief executive officer of San Francisco-based Uber, said in a statement.

    New Strategy

    Partnering with Uber and Phoenix-based Carvana addresses two key weaknesses in the rental industry: asset-utilization -- how actively a car is rented out; and resale recovery -- how much of the purchase price is recouped when the car is sold.

    Through the new deal with Carvana, one of the two biggest online car marketplaces, Hertz hopes to eliminate the discounting necessary when selling vehicles from its fleet through dealers and wholesalers. Buyers will be able to pick up cars as soon as the following day. Carvana, home of the car vending machine, earns a commission.

    “This provides us with a very effective direct-to-consumer sales channel,” Fields said.

    By opening part of its EV fleet to ride-hailing, Hertz aims to maximize revenue per vehicle and improve profit margins. For example, cars typically rented out to leisure customers on the weekend could be used for Uber rides Monday to Friday.

    Uber Rates

    Under the Uber agreement, drivers will pay a starting rate of $334 a week to rent a Tesla Model 3 with unlimited miles, plus expenses for recharging and incidental damage. That’ll gradually drop to $299. Initially, the program is open only to drivers with a 4.7-star rating and a minimum of 150 trips.

    Drivers won’t be able to turn on Tesla’s autopilot feature, Fields said.

    Uber is offering drivers a zero-emissions incentive of $1 a ride for using EVs and 50 cents for every rider who chooses to go green. As with all rentals, Hertz covers or absorbs the cost of financing, maintenance, insurance and depreciation.

    What Bloomberg Intelligence Says:

    “Uber’s partnership with Hertz is probably aimed at fending off disruption from a direct rollout of robo-taxis, built on a network of electric and autonomous vehicles. Renting rather than buying vehicles suggests Uber will keep operating an asset-light model, though high variable costs could be a persistent drag on the contribution margin in the near term.”-- Mandeep Singh, BI senior technology industry analystClick here to read the research.

    Hertz has been renting to Uber drivers since 2016. The new relationship builds on that program, adding at least 50,000 Teslas to the pool of available vehicles by 2023 and possibly as many as 150,000. The EVs will be available first in Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego and Washington DC, with a nationwide rollout to follow in coming weeks.

    And because the deal is exclusive, none of Hertz’s rivals in the U.S. can rent Teslas to Uber drivers. They can, however, offer other cars. Lyft Inc. has committed to switch entirely to EVs by 2030.

    New Investors

    By embracing electrification, Hertz is positioning itself as the green alternative to Enterprise Holdings Inc. and Avid Budget Group Inc. That may appeal to the scores of companies looking to burnish their climate credentials, as well as to consumers wanting to reduce their carbon footprint. According to Uber, drivers who go electric cut tailpipe emissions much more than the average car owner.

    Knighthead Capital Management, a distressed debt hedge fund, and Certares Management, a buyout firm specializing in travel, won the bankruptcy auction for Hertz with a $6 billion bid. The initiatives they’ve announced come ahead of a relisting of Hertz shares on the Nasdaq Stock Market.

    Early indications are the strategy is paying off. Hertz’s market valuation, based on over-the-counter trading, jumped about $1.2 billion Monday after it announced its deal with Tesla, and stood at $12.9 billion as of Tuesday’s close.

    Hertz shares gained as much as 4% in trading Wednesday morning in New York. Uber shares rose as much as 1.2% , while Carvana advanced as much as 5%. Tesla gained as much as 3%.

    Fields acknowledged that with so many changes to its way of doing business, there’s a risk Hertz stumbles or something out of its control goes wrong.

    “There are lots of moving parts here,” Field’s said. “When there are hiccups, we need to be agile in learning and fixing those things.”

    Source: BIoomberg

    ...maybe quality and customer service are less important for taxi cabs? Smiley

    In any case, there's an opportunity for TesIa owners that fancy a sideline as an Uber rental taxi... Smiley 


    Re: Tesla

    With one signature. Hertz offloaded the liability of paying for 100,000 Tesla to Uber.

    Uber's rental payment for 50,000 Tesla will easily covers Hertz's payment for buying 100,000 Tesla, and they still have 50,000 cars to rent out as pure profit.

    It would be hard to imagine all 100,000 Teslas being rented out at the same time, so they have spare cars to rotate into service if one breaks down. But then again, it isn't a likely scenario, not many Teslas are have breakdown reports. 

    These are rental cars, no one is going to complaint about build quality, they are just transportation devices.

    As for customer service, Hertz will have a much bigger voice than say some Joe Smith down the road that only has one.  For sure they will have a VIP direct line. They are after all Tesla's biggest customer.

    With the Carvana deal, they also offloaded the end of life headache, Carvana will do all the dirty work getting the cars sold, Hertz doesn't have to do anything.

    The whole thing is basically like how a bank lend out mortgages, pocketing the interest profits, but offloading the debt to a 3rd party, zero risk game. 

     
    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    A bit of related news for taxi cab drivers...  C7BEAB03-A272-4B0C-AF73-D01AEAA5AA36.gif

    "Hertz Teams With Uber, Carvana in Big Shift to Electric Cars"

    (27 October 2021)

    (Bloomberg) -- Hertz Global Holdings Inc, fresh off a blockbuster order for 100,000 Teslas, reached an exclusive agreement to supply Uber drivers with electric vehicles and signed up Carvana Co to dispose of rental cars it no longer wants.

    Taken together, the deals represent a trifecta of aggressive and innovative initiatives with the potential to upend the car-rental business and hasten the transition to greener transportation. The order for Model 3s on Monday, the largest-ever for EVs at $4.2 billion, was such a watershed moment that it propelled Tesla Inc’s valuation past $1 trillion.

    Just as surprising: The company behind it all is barely out of bankruptcy. Only 17 months ago, with the Covid-19 pandemic raging, Estero, Florida-based Hertz was so troubled and its future so uncertain that it sought protection from creditors. Now, under the control of hedge fund and private-equity owners, Hertz is leaning on mobile technology and digitization to transform a stodgy industry known for uninspiring cars and poor customer experiences.

    “Our approach is very strategic and very deliberate in terms of how we want to disrupt ourselves and, hopefully, disrupt the industry,” Mark Fields, who’s serving as interim chief executive officer at Hertz, said in an interview. “Instead of asking why, we’re asking why not.”

    Under the agreement with Uber Technologies Inc, drivers for the ride-hailing giant who previously had to provide and maintain their own EVs will be able to rent one of 50,000 Teslas from Hertz instead. The program, which starts Nov. 1, is an alternative to buying or leasing, and many drivers may find it more appealing.

    Had Uber bought and rented out the Teslas itself, some states might classify drivers as employees. The arrangement with Hertz allows Uber to increase the number of rides taken on EVs without having to change its business model.

    “Now is the time to drive a green recovery from the pandemic,” Dara Khosrowshahi, chief executive officer of San Francisco-based Uber, said in a statement.

    New Strategy

    Partnering with Uber and Phoenix-based Carvana addresses two key weaknesses in the rental industry: asset-utilization -- how actively a car is rented out; and resale recovery -- how much of the purchase price is recouped when the car is sold.

    Through the new deal with Carvana, one of the two biggest online car marketplaces, Hertz hopes to eliminate the discounting necessary when selling vehicles from its fleet through dealers and wholesalers. Buyers will be able to pick up cars as soon as the following day. Carvana, home of the car vending machine, earns a commission.

    “This provides us with a very effective direct-to-consumer sales channel,” Fields said.

    By opening part of its EV fleet to ride-hailing, Hertz aims to maximize revenue per vehicle and improve profit margins. For example, cars typically rented out to leisure customers on the weekend could be used for Uber rides Monday to Friday.

    Uber Rates

    Under the Uber agreement, drivers will pay a starting rate of $334 a week to rent a Tesla Model 3 with unlimited miles, plus expenses for recharging and incidental damage. That’ll gradually drop to $299. Initially, the program is open only to drivers with a 4.7-star rating and a minimum of 150 trips.

    Drivers won’t be able to turn on Tesla’s autopilot feature, Fields said.

    Uber is offering drivers a zero-emissions incentive of $1 a ride for using EVs and 50 cents for every rider who chooses to go green. As with all rentals, Hertz covers or absorbs the cost of financing, maintenance, insurance and depreciation.

    What Bloomberg Intelligence Says:

    “Uber’s partnership with Hertz is probably aimed at fending off disruption from a direct rollout of robo-taxis, built on a network of electric and autonomous vehicles. Renting rather than buying vehicles suggests Uber will keep operating an asset-light model, though high variable costs could be a persistent drag on the contribution margin in the near term.”-- Mandeep Singh, BI senior technology industry analystClick here to read the research.

    Hertz has been renting to Uber drivers since 2016. The new relationship builds on that program, adding at least 50,000 Teslas to the pool of available vehicles by 2023 and possibly as many as 150,000. The EVs will be available first in Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego and Washington DC, with a nationwide rollout to follow in coming weeks.

    And because the deal is exclusive, none of Hertz’s rivals in the U.S. can rent Teslas to Uber drivers. They can, however, offer other cars. Lyft Inc. has committed to switch entirely to EVs by 2030.

    New Investors

    By embracing electrification, Hertz is positioning itself as the green alternative to Enterprise Holdings Inc. and Avid Budget Group Inc. That may appeal to the scores of companies looking to burnish their climate credentials, as well as to consumers wanting to reduce their carbon footprint. According to Uber, drivers who go electric cut tailpipe emissions much more than the average car owner.

    Knighthead Capital Management, a distressed debt hedge fund, and Certares Management, a buyout firm specializing in travel, won the bankruptcy auction for Hertz with a $6 billion bid. The initiatives they’ve announced come ahead of a relisting of Hertz shares on the Nasdaq Stock Market.

    Early indications are the strategy is paying off. Hertz’s market valuation, based on over-the-counter trading, jumped about $1.2 billion Monday after it announced its deal with Tesla, and stood at $12.9 billion as of Tuesday’s close.

    Hertz shares gained as much as 4% in trading Wednesday morning in New York. Uber shares rose as much as 1.2% , while Carvana advanced as much as 5%. Tesla gained as much as 3%.

    Fields acknowledged that with so many changes to its way of doing business, there’s a risk Hertz stumbles or something out of its control goes wrong.

    “There are lots of moving parts here,” Field’s said. “When there are hiccups, we need to be agile in learning and fixing those things.”

    Source: BIoomberg

    ...maybe quality and customer service are less important for taxi cabs? Smiley

    In any case, there's an opportunity for TesIa owners that fancy a sideline as an Uber rental taxi... Smiley 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Surprised Musk didn’t make this an OTA fix.  https://www.thedrive.com/news/42942/tesla-model-3-model-y-recalled-for-loose-suspension-parts

     

    Musk was busy working on the Star Trek Transporter and Replicator as to enable OTA updates to existing Model 3s to make them Plaid. 


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    Re: Tesla

    Hardly am I being defensive. I just represent my opinions like you guys do.  I don’t ever claim the Tesla is a luxury car or has perfect build quality nor do I post - ever - plaid videos or FSD videos or positive press etc.   Never.  All I do I give my side of the story. You can call it defensive in an effort to quiet me down i suppose but I’m certain readers here see what I am writing clearly most of the time. 
    I still love my Turbo guys but as an average person with limited means I grew very tired of the huge expense keeping that car as a daily driver.  The Tesla is a welcome addition and I have had far more fun with it than I dare try to describe here. It is inexpensive and practical as well as safe and tons of fun.  Really really hard to describe obviously in the forum so I never have any need to convince you to get one or try one - trust me. There are plenty being sold.   
    What I do enjoy is reading some of the stuff you guys think and how you react as car guys.  To me a car guy is pragmatic about speed and the expense that goes with it. It f he sees something fast and fun he goes for it cause he is a car guy.  A car guy does not car so much about fit and finish, what color it is, stitching, 800 volt ( my new favorite ) or dealership experience.  If something is luxury I avoid it thinking the money did not go to raw speed. 


    Re: Tesla

    it doesn't have to be expensive to have good fit and finish, and it doesn't have to be an expensive car to be enjoyable. Look at the Golf R, or even the regular Golf, they have proper fit and finish, not much leather in the base trim, buckets of fun, inexpensive, economical to run, a hoot to drive. Same can be said of all the hot hatches. Even Ford Focus, Honda Civic, etc have proper fit and finish, they aren't expensive cars. it's just properly made. 

    Heck look at all the Kias and Hyundais, they all have properly fitted interiors and doors and panels, they score really well in JD Powers Initial Quality survey. If even the Koreans can fit panels properly, there is no excuse for Tesla to not do it, the bar is really low there as we aren't even comparing Germans. 


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    CGX car nut:

    Surprised Musk didn’t make this an OTA fix.  https://www.thedrive.com/news/42942/tesla-model-3-model-y-recalled-for-loose-suspension-parts

     

    Musk was busy working on the Star Trek Transporter and Replicator as to enable OTA updates to existing Model 3s to make them Plaid. 

    As the world's known wealthiest individual, he is spending his time making puerile jokes...

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1453954994546229253?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet 

     


    Re: Tesla

    Tesla model 3 has been europe's best selling car in September, all brands and engines included. 

    A first for an EV engine and also a first for a US car .

    https://www.focus2move.com/europe-best-selling-cars/

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     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: Tesla

    Gnil:

    Tesla model 3 has been europe's best selling car in September, all brands and engines included. 

    A first for an EV engine and also a first for a US car .

    https://www.focus2move.com/europe-best-selling-cars/

    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     

    Let us know when Tesla as a nameplate becomes the best selling car in the EU.  Having a handful of models versus the myriad from the other automakers tends to skew the data.


    Re: Tesla

    Gnil:

    Tesla model 3 has been europe's best selling car in September, all brands and engines included. 

    A first for an EV engine and also a first for a US car .

    https://www.focus2move.com/europe-best-selling-cars/

    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     

     

    Not surprised, Tesla shipments to Europe comes in waves, and there is still a healthy demand for them in Switzerland and I believe Norway and Sweden.


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

    Gnil:

    Tesla model 3 has been europe's best selling car in September, all brands and engines included. 

    A first for an EV engine and also a first for a US car .

    https://www.focus2move.com/europe-best-selling-cars/

    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     

    Deliveries are bundled 4 times a year that's why it shows lots of sales in Sept. The following months are 0.


    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    it doesn't have to be expensive to have good fit and finish, and it doesn't have to be an expensive car to be enjoyable. Look at the Golf R, or even the regular Golf, they have proper fit and finish, not much leather in the base trim, buckets of fun, inexpensive, economical to run, a hoot to drive. Same can be said of all the hot hatches. Even Ford Focus, Honda Civic, etc have proper fit and finish, they aren't expensive cars. it's just properly made. 

    Heck look at all the Kias and Hyundais, they all have properly fitted interiors and doors and panels, they score really well in JD Powers Initial Quality survey. If even the Koreans can fit panels properly, there is no excuse for Tesla to not do it, the bar is really low there as we aren't even comparing Germans. 


    --

     

     

     

     

    It is simply not as poorly made as you think or want to imagine and reliability is bulletproof compared to ICE cars. I have zero fit and finish issues - of course some do - you tend to latch on to any narrative which fits your notion. 


    Re: Tesla

    You have one Model 3.

    My gf's dad has a Model 3, her brother just got a Model Y. Couple of my buddies also bought Model 3s, another parent at my son's school who is a close friend has a Model S, another have a Model X. That's 6 cars.

    All 6 have exterior panel fitment issues. All 6 have interior panels that don't fit properly. Two of the Model 3 have a sticky exterior door handles. One of the Model 3 came without a fender liner, as in the factory 'forgot' to fit that one piece of item to the car. 

    On my driveway there is right now 6 Porsches sitting there, none of them have any fitment issues whatsoever. My Honda pickup, which is made in America, have perfect panel gaps, so Americans workers are fully capable of fitting panels perfectly, not just Germans. And I believe the Honda plant is also not unionized. There really is no excuses for Tesla to not do a good job.

    You are the lucky one to have a nicely fitted car. But you car does not represent every car, and as it turns out, your car might be the exception. 


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla

     

    Over 60% SoC

    I was only able to do one hot lap because the brakes were dangerously overheated at the end of this lap. The car is severely underbraked.

    As for the car itself I really can't stress enough that this car doesn't belong anywhere near a track or near 10 tenths driving.

    The power steering couldn't keep up. Any fast steering corrections were fully unassisted which made driving at the limit very difficult.

    The Plaid doesn't have suspension stiff or sophisticated enough to deal with its mass.


    Re: Tesla

    Just one OTA update away from greatness.  


     
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