Crown

Board: Porsche - Cayman Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Never say Never......

    easy_rider911:

    @Gnil: Sure Gnil - my thread relates to when the 997.2 was launched. Obviously, we now have the benefit of seeing what the 997.2 -20mm PASM based sports suspension is like.

    @reginos: PASM based -20mm sports suspension is available - PAG just stopped making -20mm conventionally sprung sports suspension ... I guess they invested a lot of money in PASM and decided to roll it out across the model range ...

    Yes I know. I was referring to the -20mm with conventional dampers as on the first generation 997. Anyway, IMO it's not only a matter of recouping the investment. The PASM.2 is very much more complete than PASM.1and worthy of even the GT3RS.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Never say Never......

    Thanks for the info, one and all. Smiley

    I don't know if there are any changes on 987.1 PASM and 987.2 PASM, I loved it on the two Boxsters, but haven't much experience of non PASM cars other than the hour's drive in the non PASM demonstrator Cayman 2.9 we drove the other weekend which felt great That impression and also for financial reasons we opted out of PASM this time. I hope I don't end up regretting it...Smiley

    @easy - I assume that you, Carlos and Futch don't like the idea of the -20mm PASM over your conventional -20mm set-up. The PASM -20mm certainly got slated in the Autocar road test of the base 997.2 when it came out. 
    --
     

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon : Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10 delivery)


    Re: Never say Never......

    dreamcar:

    @easy - I assume that you, Carlos and Futch don't like the idea of the -20mm PASM over your conventional -20mm set-up. The PASM -20mm certainly got slated in the Autocar road test of the base 997.2 when it came out. 

     

     I haven't been able to test one (-20mm S-PASM)  and I would love to find out the differences or rather hopefully, the similarities between -20mm coventional vs -20mm S-PASM, mainly because the SPASM is the only choice I will get in the 991. My only confrot is the fact that the 997 GT3 and its versions use a PASM setup and that means that it can work really good if set up right, since the GT3 is the ultimate handling 911. So maybe the problems with PASM I and other have had compared to the -20mm of the 997.1 is only related to the regular -10mm PASM setup of the 997 carerras, and not a inherent PASM problem per se.


    --


    Re: Never say Never......

    SWMBO has received her invite to the Porsche Driving Experience but if I want to participate it will cost an extra - wait for it - £550!!!!!Smiley or to just go and spectate £30!!!! Smiley SWMBO will try and haggle tomorrow (although I doubt with much chance of success) . I'd love to do the experience also, I suppose one way to look at it is it's half the price of factory collection we were thinking about doing Smiley

    I was in the dealer's yesterday morning, handing over the registration number retention certificate and also so that the salesman could evaluate the part exchange car (which will now be my BMW 123d - I'm getting an alternative, much cheaper car for my long daily commute, I'd hate to admit among the distinguished company here what it is Smiley) and the salesman checked on the Cayman status with Porsche - the car is now in production, delivery will almost certainly be mid November Smiley

     


    --

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon : Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10 delivery)


    Re: Never say Never......

     

    Don't want to spoil anything regards to the LSD, but just watched the latest episode of Fifth Gear where Tiff drives the base Cayman in a shootout with a Lotus. The handling seems to be very weird and Tiff mention that the car is equipped with LSD and that could be the reason for the understeer that he experience. Very very strange.... maybe there was some fault on this particular car  .. the handling in the cornering seems to be damn awkward when he drives it on the track

    I have LSD in my 997.2 and find it to be terrific and can just agree on everything that has been mentioned in this thread before, but found it a bit weird when I watched the show and just wanted to bring up the topic.

    Here's a link where you can see the part of the episode that i'm refering to (starting at 2:50 in the Youtube movie:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AH-vbxR8Lg


    --

    Current: 997.2 C2S Meteorgrey/Black - PDK, PSE, LSD, SportChrono, Nav, Bose, etc.

    Sold: 997C2S Black/Black - PSE, Adaptives, PCCB, -20mm/LSD, Short-shifter, SportChrono, Nav, BOSE, etc.


    Re: Never say Never......

    I saw that show yesterday, it made total nonsense, there must of been something wrong with that test car... tires... suspensions... whatever, but that definately not the effect of the LSD, on the contrary. 

    Anyway, they (the show) seemed to be quite all too happy with the results showing the "brittish" car winning the handling without even bothering to find out if there was something wrong with that test car or not, and digging a bit deeper, and all to ready to chalk it up to non-sense excuses and dismiss it lightly, especially when you have a mid-engined Porsche handling like a front-wheeled front-engined hatchback  You'd think that would raise a few eyebrows and questions they'd want to look into and double check, especilally since its not the first Boxster or Cayman they test  Big let down from the show, you'd think they'd be more rigurous about the info they serve.

     

    That and them hiring the "traitor stig" from Top Gear has made Fifth Gear loose a few points in my score card about the show 


    --


    Re: Never say Never......

     

    Thanks for raising that Lukas, as I went for the useless LSD on the advice of Rennteamers various!!!SmileySmiley Only joking guys. Smiley

    SWMBO and me watched that 5th Gear show, the first thing she did was beat me up about "wasting money on the car and the LSD in particular".   Smiley  

    I  probably expected the Lotus to be a better track car, but I certainly didn't expect Tiff, a highly respected driver and a Porsche enthusiast, to give the Cayman such a slating. Smiley

    When I went down to my supplying dealer on Saturday the salesman asked me in all innocence if I'd seen the test on 5th Gear, he had recorded it and not yet watched it. I had the satisfaction of watching him cringe when I told him Tiff had totally slated the Cayman and then said to him "the car is crap -  I want my deposit money back"!!!!!!!!!!

    In all seriousness I was very disappointed with that test as you can imagine, and as Carlos has said there was clearly something untypical with that test car so why wasn't it investigated? Unless of course they just wanted to boost the Lotus for whatever reason.....Smiley 

     
    --
     

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon : Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10 delivery)


    Re: Never say Never......

    It was all a bit too exagerated, either purposedly by Tiff or the car, but I can't remember seeing a car understeer so much in the Fifth gear track shootout, not even with the sedans or front wheeled hatchbacks... but if it was the test car's fault entirely, why did they not take a minimum effort to investigate the reason? Tiff knows better with all his testing experience, and he was going wide on the corners like if he didn't know how to compensate his driving accordingly to an understeering car...
    --


    Re: Never say Never......

    +1 I'm surprised that Tiff Needell slated the Cayman. I think his preference for the 911 over the Cayman plus his pro-Lotus preference all had a part to play in the tone and content of his review.


    --


    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

    Rennteam signature photo 2.jpg


    Re: Never say Never......

    easy_rider911:

    I think his preference for the 911 over the Cayman.....

    No accounting for taste, I suppose....Smiley Smiley


    --

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon : Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10 delivery)


    Re: Never say Never......

    If Tiff is more of a 911 guy and would have applied the typical 911 cornering style then the test makes even less sense, because: 911 = slow in - fast out, whereas Cayman/Boxtster can carry more speed into the corner (except very tight corners / hairpins), but will loose after the apex.


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Never say Never......

    My Cayman S with LSD doesn't iundersteer like that at all.  I saw the clip on the internet and my first thought was that there was something wrong with the car


    Re: Never say Never......

    I'm sure Porsche will check a car before they hand it over for a Fifth Gear test?  


    Re: Never say Never......

    993Targa:

    I'm sure Porsche will check a car before they hand it over for a Fifth Gear test?  


    But on the basis of that test I hope they check them better before they deliver them to customers! Smiley


    --

    BMW 123d M Sport 08 Le Mans Blue / Lemon : Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10 delivery)


    Re: Never say Never......

    I have not seen it but it sounds like the fifth gear test results are the opposite of every test done with the Cayman in every magazine.  Easy for me to say Dreamcar but i would not be concerned but really excited!


    Re: Never say Never......

     I went out on the track in a Boxster Spyder today (LSD standard) with a very competent driver.  Let's just say terminal understeer was NOT a problem 


    --

    2007 987S, KW v3 1964 Type 1


    Re: Never say Never......

     This was a huge let down by Tiff and Fifth Gear... how give any credit to what they say from now on if they were, voluntarily so or maybe not, so far far off this time?


    --


    Re: Never say Never......

    Woolfe:

     Easy for me to say Dreamcar but i would not be concerned but really excited!


    I'm not concerned, just very surprised that a well respected driver like Tiff would have made these comments...Smiley

    Saw a gen 2 Cayman on Saturday parked up, looked stunning albeit not in aqua blue - having just collected my new daily drive econobox. which has replaced my trusty but becoming increasingly expensive to run BMW 123d. There is also a guards red one not far from where I live.

    - hopefully only three weeks to go....Smiley


    --
     

    Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10 delivery) : Little Japanese Econobox


    Re: Never say Never......

    Carlos from Spain:

    I saw that show yesterday, it made total nonsense, there must of been something wrong with that test car... tires... suspensions... whatever, but that definately not the effect of the LSD, on the contrary. 

    Carlos - Actually, I think it is possible that the LSD contributed to that understeer.  LSD's are wonderful (I won't own a sportscar without one), but they will tend to induce understeer if the suspension is not tuned to compensate for its presence.

    Your 997's -20mm Suspension and LSD were tuned to work together (spring, damper, and swaybar rates adjusted accordingly).

    Perhaps on the 987, adding the LSD does not come with a suspension that's been suitably adjusted to work with its LSD.

    Most Porsche models with LSD only come with LSD (GT models and a few more), so they are already tuned to work with LSD (and the GT models have adjustable swaybars, so you can have understeer, oversteer, or in-between by turning a wrench).

    I believe an adjustable GT3 rear swaybar can be added to a 987 rather easily...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: Never say Never......

    Hi Grant,

    I fully agree that an LSD by itself may add "some" understeer as it locks the ourtside rear into the turn but that is not the end result in any sportcar with factory rear LSD car I have driven, and especially not a Porsche,and specially not with the low locking rates of these PSm equipped cars fitted with LSD.. Like you well said, its a matter of integrating it correctly into the suspensions, like when you add sway bars, etc.

    - I seriously doubt that Porsche would offer the rear LSD as an option, a factory option, and not make the necesary changes to the suspensions for it they know so well how to do. They have been offering this option as a stand alone option (without sport suspension) for some time now, since the 997.1TT and none of these cars suffered from understeer, come to think of it, even the 996 40th aniversary edition had one without the sport suspensions.

    - Also the LSD is an option for those that want a sportier setup, not to induce terminal understeer. My 997.1-20mm with LSD tends to even oversteer more than the 997-PASM w/o LSD for example, usually LSD fitted cars are setup sportier and hence even oversteer more in the end. So its like if Tiff showns a S-PASM car and says it has more bodyroll than the standard suspensions, wouldn't make sense. I would say there is someting wrong with that car's suspensions, and I would say the same thing on this Cayman.

    - And the understeer shown on the video is too exagerated, its like if it was being provoked or enhaced by Tiff on every corner, when Tiff knows perfectly well how to adapt his driving to compensate for understeer, like he has done many many tiimes in the track test with naturally understeering cars lilke FWD Front-engined cars. Hail the winner, the english Lotus.

    - And lastly, the comments on the behaviuor of the Cayman with LSD from people I have talked to who have driven it, is not the one shown on this video, and here in this thread you have GR who has driven it in the track and reports the same. And the 997.2 can have the LSD fitted as an option withouit the -20mm and it doesn't behave like this either. Why is this the only case reported?

    Maybe the front tires on the Cayman were shot, or were underinflated, maybe there was some staging by Fifth Gear to help the Lotus, I don't know, but Fifth Gear has lost my confidence after this 


    --


    Re: Never say Never......

    throt:

    She has just purchased a run around, its a Suzuki Swift costing 12k , road tax £30 a year and cheap insurance. thats her idea of value and a car ....

     


    Other way round here, throt : my new daily drive is a Toyota Yaris 1.4 D4D. It is averaging 65 mpg, like your Significant Other's Suzuki road tax is £30 / year, I could just about replace all four tyres on the Yaris for the price of ONE rear run-flat on the soon to depart BMW 123d. Insurance is just about halved; warranty is 5 years / 100,000 miles. It's also comfy and surprisingly refined for my long commute. Only minor niggles so far are the steering wheel audio /bluetooth controls aren't illuminated at night and the door mirrors aren't heated.


    --
     

    Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10 delivery) : Toyota Yaris D4D Oct 10


    Re: Never say Never......

    dreamcar:
    throt:

    She has just purchased a run around, its a Suzuki Swift costing 12k , road tax £30 a year and cheap insurance. thats her idea of value and a car ....

     


    Other way round here, throt : my new daily drive is a Toyota Yaris 1.4 D4D. It is averaging 65 mpg, like your Significant Other's Suzuki road tax is £30 / year, I could just about replace all four tyres on the Yaris for the price of ONE rear run-flat on the soon to depart BMW 123d. Insurance is just about halved; warranty is 5 years / 100,000 miles. It's also comfy and surprisingly refined for my long commute. Only minor niggles so far are the steering wheel audio /bluetooth controls aren't illuminated at night and the door mirrors aren't heated.

     


     

    Hi Bud,

    We did look at the Toyota Aygo but found it not very appealing on the inside, should have looked at the Yaris. Her Swift is the top range 1.2 petrol SZ4 with button start and key-less entry, heated mirrors etc etc. Correction on the road tax, its £20 a yr Smiley. Its a nice little motor, I use it more than her to nip to the shops and back Smiley Smiley..

    Does anyone want pics of the baby Smiley Smiley...

    All the best with your drives, buddy.


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: Never say Never......

    throt:

    Hi Bud,

    We did look at the Toyota Aygo but found it not very appealing on the inside, should have looked at the Yaris. Her Swift is the top range 1.2 petrol SZ4 with button start and key-less entry, heated mirrors etc etc. Correction on the road tax, its £20 a yr Smiley. Its a nice little motor, I use it more than her to nip to the shops and back Smiley Smiley..

    Does anyone want pics of the baby Smiley Smiley...

    All the best with your drives, buddy.

    Just for you, throt....Smiley

     

    Double take 2.jpg


    --

    Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10 delivery) : Toyota Yaris D4D (Oct 10) 


    Re: Never say Never......

    Thank you, you sure like your blue's, buddy ..


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: Never say Never......

    Our dealer telephoned to say that our Cayman S has arrived !!Smiley  Frustratingly my first ferry refit starts tomorrow in Portsmouth, so I've had to delay taking delivery until Friday 19th November. Smiley Smiley

    Time to empty trouser pockets, shake the piggy banks etc to find the money to pay for it! Smiley


    --

    Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10 delivery) : Toyota Yaris D4D (Oct 10) 


    Re: Never say Never......

    Congrats! its going to be a loooong 2 weeks

    Looking foward to your impresions and the pics!


    --


    Re: Never say Never......

    Carlos from Spain:

    Congrats! its going to be a loooong 2 weeks

    +1 LOL - congrats DC Smiley


    --


    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

    Rennteam signature photo 2.jpg


    Re: Never say Never......

    Excellent news!!!  Can't wait to see photos and a comprehensive road test!

    Totally off topic but how are Evoras selling in UK?  Local demo here has just dropped by 21%!


    Re: Never say Never......

    easy_rider911:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Congrats! its going to be a loooong 2 weeks

    +1 LOL - congrats DC Smiley

    +2 ...but don't worry - the weather will be better for photos in 2 weeks time! Smiley

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Never say Never......

    Thanks everyone Smiley - two weeks feels like two years at the moment! Smiley I promise loads of photos and first impressions. Smiley Hopefully if we can arrange a mutually convenient date with Rich C and John H some nice group photos as well! Smiley 

    ---
     

    Porsche Cayman S PDK Aqua Blue / Ocean Blue  (November 10 delivery) : Toyota Yaris D4D (Oct 10) 


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 5/18/22 6:36 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    686497 1306
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 10/9/22 4:08 PM
    watt
    320151 1186
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 12/1/22 4:38 PM
    Enmanuel
    217295 1258
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 11/29/22 4:25 PM
    Leawood911
    202873 436
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/6/22 12:37 AM
    WhoopsyM
    186150 580
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 11/22/22 8:19 PM
    GaussM
    129504 9
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 11/30/22 2:30 PM
    GnilM
    57362 68
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/1/22 10:14 PM
    SSO.
    521241 3954
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 2/1/22 9:49 AM
    RCA
    476723 2655
    Porsche 992 GT3 11/27/22 2:46 AM
    WhoopsyM
    472809 3785
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 9/30/22 6:31 PM
    Grant
    230252 774
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 12/2/22 6:41 AM
    WhoopsyM
    228538 1447
    AMG AMG GT R 3/13/22 8:52 PM
    spudgun
    199929 834
    Lambo Aventador and SV 5/20/22 5:24 PM
    Topspeed
    196029 710
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 10/27/22 2:59 PM
    Leawood911
    190615 1863
    Porsche GT4RS 11/24/22 3:09 AM
    GnilM
    190276 1193
    Motor Sp. [2021] Formula 1 4/19/22 10:08 PM
    Leawood911
    163498 1590
    Others Bugatti Chiron 8/30/22 4:31 PM
    Josef
    160657 525
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 6/12/22 5:09 PM
    watt
    156836 535
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 2/28/22 7:42 PM
    Topspeed
    143428 409
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 10/6/22 11:48 PM
    DJM48
    140308 501
    Lambo Urus (SUV) 6/7/22 1:20 PM
    Topspeed
    138437 593
    Others Corvette C8 7/18/22 12:40 PM
    WhoopsyM
    137679 443
    Porsche Dave and Gnil @ Nürburgring Nordschleife 7/4/22 10:42 PM
    DaveGordon
    136276 722
    Motor Sp. [2022] Formula 1 12/2/22 1:07 AM
    DJM48
    127181 1556
    Others Toyota Yaris GR 4/13/22 8:33 PM
    Grant
    107322 640
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/21/22 8:37 AM
    RCA
    106355 335
    AMG Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 10/24/22 7:42 AM
    RCA
    104064 402
    Ferrari Wandered to the dark side 8/29/22 9:35 AM
    BiTurbo
    79122 418
    Ferrari Ferrari Roma 4/18/22 4:33 PM
    watt
    31547 438
    177 items found, displaying 1 to 30.