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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    WHOA at the blue smoke at 1.20.  WTH??


    --

    991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    pjd:

    On real world.... Amazing kiss

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s800ZLYOexI

    ...991 GT3 sounds good! Smiley

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    2014 Porsche 911 GT3 -- Engine Start Up...

    2014 Porsche 911 GT3 -- Engine Start Up -- Video Link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Guys. Its scares me when people make so many uneducated comments on here.

    The car sat overnight before being started for the transporter. The engine was 14 hrs cold and the temperature was well under 20 Celcius. Yes all 911s Ive owned (especially the 993) smoke under similar conditions.

    Secondly. The car stalled because there is no "creep" function on this PDK box. This means it will not ride its own without throttle input.

    Thirdly whomever commented this manouvour would have been easier in manual that PDK is smoking weed. If you understand how this box works you realise In many ways its no different than handling a MT but better in many respects.

    I see we still have any claiming the GT3 is not real because the engine isnt in Motorsport. Well you will shortly beable to strike that off your list.

    Also the GT3 was always a street car that could be tracked. Never the other way around. The origial 996.1 GT3 was 30Kg heaver than the 996 Carrera base model. Nothing has changed, Air con, electric windows and radio were all available in the GT3 then. It shared more then wth the 996 Cup car as it was a new platform but over the subsequent 15 years it shared less with a true Cup car. This is a road car that can be used on the track reliably. Always was always will be.You want a dedicated track car go Cup.

    Frayed. I agree with you. Will be hard work keeping the 993 in the garage when this baby arrives.

    Lastly I do not know about the rumoured Ring laps at 7.1Xs but I know from a personal friend that the first aggressive lap done by a test driver on development spec car (4WS at that time not fully set up and tyre's not final type) was 7.26. The engineers and other test ddrivers were stunned. This was not their quickest driver, it was a first proper drive and they were far from completing final tuning. This was late 2012. Porsche will choose a "marketing number" for the GT3 Ring time I suspect in order to place the car in the range and leave some room for the RS version - but there are no doubts this car is quicker than the 4.0RS by some margin....



    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    SportCarGroup:

    Why it has difficulties with climbing to the truck?? yes

    The car didn't, the driver did. The person responsible for loading the car, probably just the truck driver, had obviously not driven it before and had to be told by the long-haired blonde guy how to start the car properly.  Smiley


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    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Also, curiously either the car is not equipped with the front lifter or the driver chose not to use it. I would think the lifter is made for this situation.


    --

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    Guys. Its scares me when people make so many uneducated comments on here.

    ...

    Thirdly whomever commented this manouvour would have been easier in manual that PDK is smoking weed. If you understand how this box works you realise In many ways its no different than handling a MT but better in many respects.

    ...

    The car stalled and one does not need to hear a litany of excuses, and banter on the superiority of the PDK box over a traditional manual transmission.  PDK may provide quicker shift times, but if this video is representative of its behavior at slow speeds, there will be many a buyer surprised when maneuvering out a parking space or up an incline.  A well driven manual would not have stalled on such a gentle incline.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    CGX car nut:
    macca993:

    Guys. Its scares me when people make so many uneducated comments on here.

    ...

    Thirdly whomever commented this manouvour would have been easier in manual that PDK is smoking weed. If you understand how this box works you realise In many ways its no different than handling a MT but better in many respects.

    ...

    The car stalled and one does not need to hear a litany of excuses, and banter on the superiority of the PDK box over a traditional manual transmission.  PDK may provide quicker shift times, but if this video is representative of its behavior at slow speeds, there will be many a buyer surprised when maneuvering out a parking space or up an incline.  A well driven manual would not have stalled on such a gentle incline.  

    True.     Neither would a PDK driven by someone familiar with the car. 

    I know I'm repeating myself, but.............:
    "The car didn't, the driver did. The person responsible for loading the car, probably just the truck driver, had obviously not driven it before and had to be told by the long-haired blonde guy how to start the car properly.  Smiley. "--

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Don't know if its been already stated but he did not brake early enough too inside the truck, he bump the GT3's nose..Nevermind...


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Here we go again. All the experts at getting wet stone cold vehicles onto steel tread plates in 14 degree weather with inclines of 15 degrees in order to not damage the car or launch it into the front compartment of the truck too quickly....

    Honestly guys. This is just a BS arguement. Ive loaded my own car onto a transporter twice and stalled more than once trying to get over the "break away" point (mid apex) where things get tricky.

    Oh no. Its not that. It must be that the GT3 is rubbish. Sorry. Forgot the rules. Slag off the GT3....


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    fritz:
    CGX car nut:
    macca993:

    Guys. Its scares me when people make so many uneducated comments on here.

    ...

    Thirdly whomever commented this manouvour would have been easier in manual that PDK is smoking weed. If you understand how this box works you realise In many ways its no different than handling a MT but better in many respects.

    ...

    The car stalled and one does not need to hear a litany of excuses, and banter on the superiority of the PDK box over a traditional manual transmission.  PDK may provide quicker shift times, but if this video is representative of its behavior at slow speeds, there will be many a buyer surprised when maneuvering out a parking space or up an incline.  A well driven manual would not have stalled on such a gentle incline.  

    True.     Neither would a PDK driven by someone familiar with the car. 

    I know I'm repeating myself, but.............:
    "The car didn't, the driver did. The person responsible for loading the car, probably just the truck driver, had obviously not driven it before and had to be told by the long-haired blonde guy how to start the car properly.  Smiley. "--

    fritz

    Agree; however, and you may agree, while under automatic mode, some creep should be built in to prevent stalling as  the clutch engagement will increase vehicle speed beyond prudence for the maneuver.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    My MP4-12C has a dual clutch and it has no problems going in and out of transports, which it has done many many times. 

    This is video simply showed a GT3 driven by a horribly incompetent driver, nothing more, nothing less. As for those that would argue this is a bad showing of pdk, there are probably hundreds of failed video showing manual cars stalling and having difficulty getting into a transport. Heck, there should also some showing clutch getting burnt up doing the very same act.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Macca, after my engine rebuild in my 964 Turbo, no smoke under any conditions.  I did get smoke from two of my 996s, but not my 997S or 997 GT3.

    But yeah I'm not sure why folks are freaked out about some dude who doesn't know how to park a car in a transport.  Having done that a bunch of times, it is a bit of a PITA till you get the hang of it.  Like docking a boat.


    --

    991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I think it DOES look like the nose is lifted.  Pretty big gap there.Lift.JPG


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    frayed:

    But yeah I'm not sure why folks are freaked out about some dude who doesn't know how to park a car in a transport.  Having done that a bunch of times, it is a bit of a PITA till you get the hang of it.  Like docking a boat.

    Smiley  
    The guy is probably a very competent truck driver, but is being confronted with driving a PDK car for the first time ever and it is under difficult conditions. 
    I can sympathise with him because I once had to load a car (which I had never driven before) with a highly tuned small-displacement turbocharged racing engine fitted with a "digital" 5" Formula 1 clutch up a steep ramp onto a low-sided trailer less than 4" wider than the car body. I also had an amused audience, which thought that the hardest part about what I did should have been the part where I had to climb out of the car (a small coupé) through the driver's door window, as the narrow trailer naturally didn't allow the door to be opened.    Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Maybe the MP4 has creep?

    Frayed. You are lucky. After my 993 has sat a couple of days is smokes briefly from one bank just like this GT3 did. Especially when its cold like it was on this European spring morning. I think its oil that hasnt made the sump 

    Yes the car has lift on. You can see the Porsche employee telling the transport driver how to activate the lift and use the paddles. 

    The PDK-S has some features not found on other transmissions so we should probably go a bit easy on the transport guy as he probably has to work with a lot of different format cars.

    Im cancelling my order today because the car stalled on the transporter. I just cant live with a car that smokes and stall on transporters. Also that engine. Its not motorsport proven yet. The car is very heavy having put on 30Kg largely because of the standard seats as one piece buckets are not available. Then there is the reliability. Its bound to be crap because the 997   had many issues. I certainly dont want to be a guinea pig with the beautiful new forged 20" CL wheels even if he CL have been comprehesively reviewed and now features most of the Cup car components. Oh, its also an unknown platform (as its not yet been built?). Its definately just a GTS and not a track oriented road car from experience (none!). 

    Kidding! This car will be awesome! 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    Maybe the MP4 has creep?

    Frayed. You are lucky. After my 993 has sat a couple of days is smokes briefly from one bank just like this GT3 did. Especially when its cold like it was on this European spring morning. I think its oil that hasnt made the sump 

    Yes the car has lift on. You can see the Porsche employee telling the transport driver how to activate the lift and use the paddles. 

    The PDK-S has some features not found on other transmissions so we should probably go a bit easy on the transport guy as he probably has to work with a lot of different format cars.

    Im cancelling my order today because the car stalled on the transporter. I just cant live with a car that smokes and stall on transporters. Also that engine. Its not motorsport proven yet. The car is very heavy having put on 30Kg largely because of the standard seats as one piece buckets are not available. Then there is the reliability. Its bound to be crap because the 997   had many issues. I certainly dont want to be a guinea pig with the beautiful new forged 20" CL wheels even if he CL have been comprehesively reviewed and now features most of the Cup car components. Oh, its also an unknown platform (as its not yet been built?). Its definately just a GTS and not a track oriented road car from experience (none!). 

    Kidding! This car will be awesome! 

    I was enjoying your sarcasm until you spoiled it by outing yourself with the last line. Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Just a heads up to anyone in UK/Europe ordering the 991 GT3. There is a 105 page Dealer Technical Sales Manual whcih has been available for 6 weeks now. It is marked CONFIDENTIAL and is for discussing with prospective owners by the Porsche Sales Person only.

    Some of the technical images and excepts previously posted a few pages back were taken from this document. Its very detailed (much more so than anything else to date) and pretty much describes in some detail with many drawings all of the features off the new car. Its a excellent document if you can pay your hands on it but be warned after reading it you will likely want the GT3. There quite a bit of new stuff in those 100+ pages, most of it small details and comparisons to the outgoing GT3.

    The above literature cant answer unknown questions of reliability etc but if you are lucky enough to know someone who has been involved with the cars development or testing then you will get a very good understanding of the quantum leap we are talking here in GT dynamics on road and track.

    In the meantime we wait for the first press comments from the official launch in Europe at the end of July and beginning of August (these dates have already been communicated to dealers. There will be a 6 day event to host the worlds motoring press). By late August a number of the UK/European publications will likely have access to early production cars to compare themselves on street and track against the 3.8 GT3. This is where the reading will get most interesting and we will have to take their word for this until actual customer feedback starts to flow through the forums between October and Decemeber....

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    This much I know. I don't need a 105 page technical sales manual to be sold a 991GT3. All I need is an allocation! Just as an aside, yet again the ROW is getting information on the car while we in the US are left grabbing our rear ends.crying

    Macca, I compliment you on your forceful defense of the car. I have agree with every one of your posts.kiss My advice to you is do not get angry at the naysayers. Pity them. Just reflect on what they will be missing.indecision


    --

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I’m with you guys.  I have also read the 105 page “Product News” document (cover-to-cover) and am confident this thing is going to blow people away.   


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Thanks nberry. I appreciate your comments. You are right I shouldnt get angry. Late last year when talking to my devlopment engineer friend based at the North Loop, hes said something very similar. He told me to make sure I was on the  order list ASAP (there are only 12-14 GT3's in total allocated to my country during the production run with only 3 being delivered from the first November RHD build run!). He said run, dont walk, as the car would be very controversial but once it broke cover in the motoring press after the press launch there would be not a unit in site to order! I thought he was winding me up but he was quite serious about this. On blind faith I got in early. He knows what Im currently looking for in a 911. I took his advice and started to collect much detailed information on the car. I must say the more I learn the more impressed I am. Im sure he is right but it very much is up to the motoring press reception of the car now...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:
    I see we still have any claiming the GT3 is not real because the engine isnt in Motorsport. Well you will shortly beable to strike that off your list.

    Also the GT3 was always a street car that could be tracked. Never the other way around. The origial 996.1 GT3 was 30Kg heaver than the 996 Carrera base model. Nothing has changed, Air con, electric windows and radio were all available in the GT3 then. It shared more then wth the 996 Cup car as it was a new platform but over the subsequent 15 years it shared less with a true Cup car. This is a road car that can be used on the track reliably. Always was always will be.You want a dedicated track car go Cup.   

     Aaaa  a 

    Absolutely correct: The GT3 was created to meet ACO/FiA GT homologation standards which require a road-going version of the respective GT race car. The GT3 (albeit in its RS format) is therefor the road-going homologation vehicle for the RSR and R  racing cars.

    The reason that the current 991RSR does not have the new GT3 engine (yet) is precisely because the current ACO/FiA rules require that the production (read "road-going") version of the car be launched at the time of the homologation of the race vehicle. This was not the case, and therefore Porsche opted to homologate the 991RSR with the Mezger engine (as it was already homologated). To be fair, I suppose Porsche could have requested a waiver, but I suspect they wanted the time (2013) for further development (for racing purposes) for the new engine.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    It's normal for any brand new car to smoke at the first few hours of operation, because many parts of the engine, exhaust system, etc., are covered with conservants from the factory (grease, etc.).


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Horizontally opposed cylinder engines (aka boxer or flat) often smoke on start up. This is due to the fact that because of the configuration oil could stay in the cylinders after the engine is switched off, which then burns on start up. This doesn't happen always.

    For people who know history, It has been a characteristic of the Porsche flat 6 since the beginning. Newcomers shouldn't be alarmed


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    frayed:

    I used to fall into the camp of Wurlie.  I had the 996 and 997 GT3s, and had an Mitsu Evo that was closely connected to the chassis used in rally racing.

    I think the knowledge that your rig shares DNA with the racing variant is a pride thing.  It sticks in the back of your mind that your car is ‘special’, in a way that only a select few understand just how special it is.  It ends up a topic of discussion at track days and at cars and coffee.  When people ask about the car, you get to say it has the same seam welded chassis, or the same motor used in the non street legal racing version.

    Very good analysis. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:

    Horizontally opposed cylinder engines (aka boxer or flat) often smoke on start up. This is due to the fact that because of the configuration oil could stay in the cylinders after the engine is switched off, which then burns on start up. This doesn't happen always.

    For people who know history, It has been a characteristic of the Porsche flat 6 since the beginning. Newcomers shouldn't be alarmed


    --

    "Form follows function"

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Spyderidol:
    The reason that the current 991RSR does not have the new GT3 engine (yet) is precisely because the current ACO/FiA rules require that the production (read "road-going") version of the car be launched at the time of the homologation of the race vehicle. This was not the case, and therefore Porsche opted to homologate the 991RSR with the Mezger engine (as it was already homologated). To be fair, I suppose Porsche could have requested a waiver, but I suspect they wanted the time (2013) for further development (for racing purposes) for the new engine.

    I would lie if I wouldn't say that I am more and more impressed with our users. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    Spyderidol:
    The reason that the current 991RSR does not have the new GT3 engine (yet) is precisely because the current ACO/FiA rules require that the production (read "road-going") version of the car be launched at the time of the homologation of the race vehicle. This was not the case, and therefore Porsche opted to homologate the 991RSR with the Mezger engine (as it was already homologated). To be fair, I suppose Porsche could have requested a waiver, but I suspect they wanted the time (2013) for further development (for racing purposes) for the new engine.

    I would lie if I wouldn't say that I am more and more impressed with our users. Smiley

    Spyderidol is extremely familiar with motorsport rules to the extent that I suspect that he is a secret member of the FIA Regulations Committee. smiley

    Thanks, for all the information Spyderidol  wink


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Spyderidol, from what I understand, the 991RSR has been homologated using the 991 Carrera 4 tub, and a Mezger engine. Does this mean that under ACO/FIA rules an engine and a chassis have to be in production, currently or in the past, but not necessarily together in a specific production car?

    As a counter point to some posts above, which I do appreciate, Porsche did not need to homologate the engine for the 991 CUP, as it is primarily produced to race in Porsche's own racing series. However, they still chose Mezger engine for that application.

    And I do agree that there is an element of pride and satisfaction to know that some of the parts in my car have actually been used for racing. It matters to me. Just like the absolute speed on track does not. Might be different for other folks, which I respect.

    Best, w


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:
    RC:
    Spyderidol:
    The reason that the current 991RSR does not have the new GT3 engine (yet) is precisely because the current ACO/FiA rules require that the production (read "road-going") version of the car be launched at the time of the homologation of the race vehicle. This was not the case, and therefore Porsche opted to homologate the 991RSR with the Mezger engine (as it was already homologated). To be fair, I suppose Porsche could have requested a waiver, but I suspect they wanted the time (2013) for further development (for racing purposes) for the new engine.

    I would lie if I wouldn't say that I am more and more impressed with our users. Smiley

    Spyderidol is extremely familiar with motorsport rules to the extent that I suspect that he is a secret member of the FIA Regulations Committee. smiley

    Thanks, for all the information Spyderidol  wink

    You are too kind Reginos my friend. It is always a pleasure discussing with you, and I too have learnt a LOT from your posts.Smiley


     
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