Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    An OPTIMIZED setup gives the vehicle the wherewithal to power from zero to one hundred in just 3.7 seconds and to reach 200 km/h after a mere 12.2 seconds.


    This is what the Porsche press release says.
    So firstly it not a typo, that Tip is faster.
    Secondly as RC stated before, the secret lies in Networking.
    I am sure that engine and drivetrain management syncs better with Tip.

    Just as the Fcars F1 tranny has Launch control.

    PDK will be even faster as it shifts faster and networks even better.


    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    An OPTIMIZED setup gives the vehicle the wherewithal to power from zero to one hundred in just 3.7 seconds and to reach 200 km/h after a mere 12.2 seconds.



    This is what the Porsche press release says.
    So firstly it not a typo, that Tip is faster.
    Secondly as RC stated before, the secret lies in Networking.
    I am sure that engine and drivetrain management syncs better with Tip.

    Just as the Fcars F1 tranny has Launch control.

    PDK will be even faster as it shifts faster and networks even better.





    Yes, but I still wonder if Tip networks better because that's how Porsche wanted to program it. The speculation now should be over WHY they would program it this way. Both Tip and manual cars are factory-LIMITED, so unless the Tip is revolutionarily much more efficient than before, this is the way they wanted to set it up-to make the Tip faster than manual-I guess this was one of Porsche's "surprises."

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    Hi TurboAl,

    You certainly could have a point there. But somehow I believe that with all technological advances it could really be that the Tip-Drivetrain-VGT-AWD simply put more power to the road, thus making it faster.

    In a straight line at least.

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    Hi TurboAl,

    You certainly could have a point there. But somehow I believe that with all technological advances it could really be that the Tip-Drivetrain-VGT-AWD simply put more power to the road, thus making it faster.

    In a straight line at least.



    Well, here's the kicker:
    If the car is at its maximum, the boost and powdr are already at their tops. What could "networking" do to improve upon it? Unless Porsche deliberately programs manual cars with less power than Tiptronics, there is no logical reason for this.

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    Quote:
    Crash said:Well, here's the kicker:
    If the car is at its maximum, the boost and power are already at their tops. What could "networking" do to improve upon it? Unless Porsche deliberately programs manual cars with less power than Tiptronics, there is no logical reason for this.



    A torque converter can keep the engine in a mid-RPM range where the flat engine torque curve is multiplied to an even bigger wheel torque than would otherwise be available from an engine with a clutch -- including PDK/DSG.

    If the torque converter ratio is, say, 1.5:1, then the engine might be turning 4500 RPM in the Tip configuration while a clutch car would be turning about 3000 at the same wheel speed. If he engine torque is flat from 1900 through 5000 RPM, then the power output from the Tip-equipped motor is 50% higher at that moment in time. The motor RPM might be much higher through some speed ranges in the Tip compared to the manual.

    This situation applies to lower RPM sections of a car's acceleration profile. If one integrates WHEEL torque over the operating RPM range, one can calculate vehicle acceleration. With a drive-line using a clutch, the wheel torque is simply the drive-line gear ratio multiplied by the engine torque. With a torque converter, the relationship changes.

    I wonder what kind of characteristics the 997TT Tip's torque converter has and how the ECU controls it and the boost profile?

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    An OPTIMIZED setup gives the vehicle the wherewithal to power from zero to one hundred in just 3.7 seconds and to reach 200 km/h after a mere 12.2 seconds.


    This is what the Porsche press release says.
    So firstly it not a typo, that Tip is faster.
    Secondly as RC stated before, the secret lies in Networking.
    I am sure that engine and drivetrain management syncs better with Tip.

    Just as the Fcars F1 tranny has Launch control.

    PDK will be even faster as it shifts faster and networks even better.





    I am sorry but that is only marketing talk. They should provide technical information to buckup that claim.

    I am sure there is a catch somewhere but it has nothing to do with optimizing values. Technology does not go from being almost 1 second slower to 200kp/h in the 996 to almost 1 second faster just by optimizing (fine tuning) the components.

    And the benefits from VTG should be identical between a manual car and an Auto.

    I can understand because of greater low rpm torque and power less difference between Tip and Manual in 0-60 (manual has the advantage of preselecting the revs before releasing clutch) but with all the traction from the 4wd and big tyres you can de-clutch at 4000rpm in a Manual and put way more power on the ground. All Launch controls from Ferrari and BMW just do this.

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:Well, here's the kicker:
    If the car is at its maximum, the boost and power are already at their tops. What could "networking" do to improve upon it? Unless Porsche deliberately programs manual cars with less power than Tiptronics, there is no logical reason for this.



    A torque converter can keep the engine in a mid-RPM range where the flat engine torque curve is multiplied to an even bigger wheel torque than would otherwise be available from an engine with a clutch -- including PDK/DSG.

    If the torque converter ratio is, say, 1.5:1, then the engine might be turning 4500 RPM in the Tip configuration while a clutch car would be turning about 3000 at the same wheel speed. If he engine torque is flat from 1900 through 5000 RPM, then the power output from the Tip-equipped motor is 50% higher at that moment in time. The motor RPM might be much higher through some speed ranges in the Tip compared to the manual.

    This situation applies to lower RPM sections of a car's acceleration profile. If one integrates WHEEL torque over the operating RPM range, one can calculate vehicle acceleration. With a drive-line using a clutch, the wheel torque is simply the drive-line gear ratio multiplied by the engine torque. With a torque converter, the relationship changes.

    I wonder what kind of characteristics the 997TT Tip's torque converter has and how the ECU controls it and the boost profile?


    hey Mike did you order tip or manual?

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    Quote:
    BD 997 said:hey Mike did you order tip or manual?



    Neither one, just yet.

    I'm waiting for the Cabriolet and more technical details to emerge.

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    I would also guess that tiptronics cost $2000+ more than an manual transmission.....more money to be made by selling tiptronics??

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    Mike:

    My understanding is that the Porsche tip only uses the torque converter for launch - or so I was told by my service manager.

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    That's my understanding too, every other gear in the Carrera's ZF autobox is 'locked' too except the 1st and 2nd.

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    BD 997 said:hey Mike did you order tip or manual?



    Neither one, just yet.

    I'm waiting for the Cabriolet and more technical details to emerge.



    Great minds think alike.

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    Quote:

    I'm waiting for the Cabriolet and more technical details to emerge.



    How many people beleive the tip will be a must have on cabs from now on?

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    I wonder what the differences are in overall gearing, in each gear, between the 6-speed and the Tip?

    If the Tip can make 60 (or 62) mph without a gear change, then I could understand the acceleration differences.

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    I think it is possible that the reason Porsche posts the tip time as faster than that of the manual is because Porsche does not use drop clutch methods to achieve their acceleration times. I have no evidence of this, but if we look at porsche's conservative performance claims in past cars it makes sense that they are using a launch method that is more representative of an everyday drivers ability to launch the car quickly. I would not be surprised if manual acceleration times match or exceed those of the tip when an American car magazine such as Road and Track or Motor Trend get their hands on this beast. Road and track is a reputable car magazine and have constantly beaten porsche's claims. The best example being the carera s. Porsche 4.6-4.8, R&T 3.9!!!!

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    Quote:
    trip said:... an American car magazine such as Road and Track or Motor Trend get their hands on this beast. Road and track is a reputable car magazine and have constantly beaten porsche's claims. The best example being the carera s. Porsche 4.6-4.8, R&T 3.9!!!!



    The test car may need a new clutch after they're finished testing, but I'll wager that Car and Driver is likely to obtain the best times out of all the USA magazines.

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    Quote:
    trip said:
    I think it is possible that the reason Porsche posts the tip time as faster than that of the manual is because Porsche does not use drop clutch methods to achieve their acceleration times.



    Then why in the past has Porsche claimed that the 6-speed was faster than the Tip in acceleration performance? A claim that has been correct.

    Re: Thats why Tips is faster than manual

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    I think it is possible that the reason Porsche posts the tip time as faster than that of the manual is because Porsche does not use drop clutch methods to achieve their acceleration times.



    Then why in the past has Porsche claimed that the 6-speed was faster than the Tip in acceleration performance? A claim that has been correct.



    Excellent point. I hope that some car magazine WILL test both the tip and manual version of the 997TT at the same time. I don't know if that's ever been done before. Otherwise, we'll never know for sure how the two cars compare.

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 5/18/22 6:36 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    686996 1306
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 10/9/22 4:08 PM
    watt
    320507 1186
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 12/7/22 4:53 PM
    Porker
    217972 1266
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 12/4/22 12:10 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    203281 439
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/6/22 12:37 AM
    WhoopsyM
    186445 580
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 11/22/22 8:19 PM
    GaussM
    129650 9
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 11/30/22 2:30 PM
    GnilM
    57683 68
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/1/22 10:14 PM
    SSO.
    521673 3954
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 2/1/22 9:49 AM
    RCA
    477309 2655
    Porsche 992 GT3 11/27/22 2:46 AM
    WhoopsyM
    473561 3785
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 9/30/22 6:31 PM
    Grant
    230638 774
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 12/8/22 7:34 PM
    Leawood911
    230293 1471
    AMG AMG GT R 3/13/22 8:52 PM
    spudgun
    200176 834
    Lambo Aventador and SV 5/20/22 5:24 PM
    Topspeed
    196374 710
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/8/22 7:08 PM
    Leawood911
    191141 1872
    Porsche GT4RS 11/24/22 3:09 AM
    GnilM
    190644 1193
    Motor Sp. [2021] Formula 1 4/19/22 10:08 PM
    Leawood911
    163677 1590
    Others Bugatti Chiron 8/30/22 4:31 PM
    Josef
    160990 525
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 6/12/22 5:09 PM
    watt
    157082 535
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 2/28/22 7:42 PM
    Topspeed
    143624 409
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 10/6/22 11:48 PM
    DJM48
    140528 501
    Lambo Urus (SUV) 6/7/22 1:20 PM
    Topspeed
    138685 593
    Others Corvette C8 7/18/22 12:40 PM
    WhoopsyM
    137855 443
    Porsche Dave and Gnil @ Nürburgring Nordschleife 7/4/22 10:42 PM
    DaveGordon
    136479 722
    Motor Sp. [2022] Formula 1 12/8/22 11:11 AM
    Leawood911
    127811 1562
    Others Toyota Yaris GR 4/13/22 8:33 PM
    Grant
    107461 640
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/21/22 8:37 AM
    RCA
    106528 335
    AMG Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 10/24/22 7:42 AM
    RCA
    104249 402
    Ferrari Wandered to the dark side 8/29/22 9:35 AM
    BiTurbo
    79338 418
    Ferrari Ferrari Roma 4/18/22 4:33 PM
    watt
    31672 438
    172 items found, displaying 1 to 30.