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    996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    This is probably an old topic thread. I am typically a normally-aspirated 911 street and track driver. I have ordered a 997S, and have driven one briefly.

    I had a 993 Turbo and have a 911 Turbo S2, but when I drove a 996 Turbo X50 recently, both on the street and at the local track, it was amazing. Both daily driver and great (but heavy) track car.

    It's uglier than either the 993 or 997S, but it has been the best Porsche I have driven to date. (I have not driven the GT3).

    Any feedback from the group - what are the differences between these cars? Which one would you choose and why?

    Thanks in advance.

    ------------

    x-92 RSA
    93 911 Turbo S2
    80 SC

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    I voted the 997S, but only if it is with the -20mm rideheight tec
    -Joost-

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    This weekend I was on the Bosch test-area near Boxberg.
    I was there with a 997S with PASM and Sport Chrono-package.

    The car is easy to handle, on the street it runs over 306 km/h and it costs only 100'000 Euro . A 996 turbo X50 costs more than 40'000 Euro more and the fun is the same.

    If you're a fan of power buy the 996 Turbo , if you want a smile in your face by driving trough curves than the 997S.

    For getting girls than the Turbo.

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    If money is no concern the TT X50 is superior in any respect.

    However, if you should happen to live in the states (or anywhere else where the superior power of the TT cannot be explored on a day to day basis) the 997s is not substantially slower and it is brand new...

    Another option: wait for the 997 TT

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Lease the 997S for 36 months, then get the new turbo. By 2007, the first run bugs (remember the early 996TT bumper warts?) will be sorted out.

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    What about early 997 TT bugs .. shouldnt you wait
    til the first batch is sold then get yours??

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    I'd skip the X50 Turbo, and instead buy a non-X50 Turbo and upgrade the exhaust, computer, and suspension. It's hard to touch 500 horsepower. And the X73 suspension (or PSS9) really transforms the car.

    For me it wouldn't matter how fast the 997S was, or how well it handled because the interior is a bust with me and I wouldn't buy one just for that reason.

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    try a GT3, it seems like a better choice for the use you described.

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    i don't think "GIRLS" would know the differnce between a 997s and a turbo...

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Quote:
    RSA333 said:
    This is probably an old topic thread. I am typically a normally-aspirated 911 street and track driver. I have ordered a 997S, and have driven one briefly.

    I had a 993 Turbo and have a 911 Turbo S2, but when I drove a 996 Turbo X50 recently, both on the street and at the local track, it was amazing. Both daily driver and great (but heavy) track car.

    It's uglier than either the 993 or 997S, but it has been the best Porsche I have driven to date. (I have not driven the GT3).

    Any feedback from the group - what are the differences between these cars? Which one would you choose and why?

    Thanks in advance.

    ------------

    x-92 RSA
    93 911 Turbo S2
    80 SC



    The biggest diffrence is 2 wheel drive versus 4 wheel drive in terms of driving feel and car behaviour. As I am sure you are aware, the 997 S has substantially less power as well. The delivery of the power also gives a different feel, with the X50 it is almost instantaneous throughout the power curve. When I drove the 997S last week I found that I had to work the engine and gears much harder (maybe I was trying just too hard to get as close to the X50 to make the decision to change easier). Others have commented (far more eloquently than me) on this on numerous posts over the last few months. See the excellent 997 S review by RC. The 997S also has the new suspension and steering which takes some getting use to. I found the ride a little soft with the PASM in normal setting even on city roads as I am used to a stiffer setting with my X50. However, with the sport setting on the ride became a little too bumpy on London roads. The car almost felt like it was hopping over some bumps. Net net, they are different cars. However, given where we are in product cycles, I'm going to get a 997S (Feb build 05) whilst waiting for the 997 Turbo to come out. It was, and remains an agonising decision The car I drove did not have Sportchrono, if it had I think the decision would have been easier

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    try a GT3, it seems like a better choice for the use you described.


    I agree with Moogle as you said "I'm typically a normally-aspirated 911 street and track driver". I think you should compare 997S with GT3.

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    I think it's different strokes for different folks. I looked at the 997 / 997S when they were released in August, and while they were nice looking cars, they just didn't do it for me. I drove a 996tt (not x-50) and it put a huge smile on my face. IMO it's more agressive looking than the 997 / 997S, and it's the car for me.

    r

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    I might sound crazy but...

    I really like my 997s but the lack of power is "killing me"

    i had a 996tt for 4 years and really loved it

    now...

    i'm considering to get a 996tt x50 black/black fully optioned.
    its a november 2003 with 9000km.the car is awesom.

    please i need help and advice

    thank you.l

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Quote:
    avedon said:
    I might sound crazy but...

    I really like my 997S but the lack of power is "killing me"

    i had a 996tt for 4 years and really loved it

    now...

    i'm considering to get a 996tt x50 black/black fully optioned.
    its a november 2003 with 9000km.the car is awesom.

    please i need help and advice

    thank you.l



    Sorry to say but "crazy" is the other way around, it's to sell a 996 Turbo to buy a 997 S . From someone who came from a 996 Turbo and now driving an aspired 997 with 355Hp that shine only at 5000 rpm up, it's perfectly normal that you are tottaly dessapointed resgarding power.

    Buy the 996 Turbo X50, it's much more exotic than the 997S.
    In every category exept for looks(interior and exterior), which is in the eye of the beholder, the X50 is way superior on every other aspects.

    J.Seven

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    The 997 Carrera S is a fun car, for nice country roads and for the track, especially with the optional 20 mm chassis (incl. LSD) which unfortunately isn't available for the US market (yet?).
    Of course it can't be compared to the 996 Turbo or even X50 Turbo, people who sell a 996 Turbo or X50 Turbo to get a 997 Carrera S are N.U.T.S. . BUT...if somebody wants a new Porsche right now which provides a lot of fun, the 997 S is a great car. But it is no Autobahn car, it is a turns and twists car.

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Three reasons i sold the 996tt

    1)in 4 years i had 145000km om
    2)every time i started the car i prayed that nothing would break(obvioulsy there was no more warranty.
    3)last but not least;i got very good money for it.

    so i though...

    i will go for the 997s untill the 997tt comes out...
    don't get me wrong on the 997 its really fun and nice to drive...but i never thought i would be so upset with the lack of power.

    i took a deposit this morning from a private costumer

    and i will have my 996tt next week

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Avedon are you changing your 997S for ANOTHER 996turbo??. I imagine you are buying a 996turbo and keeping the 997S no??.

    Sorry guys but most of you will not agree with me (don't know).
    Last week me, my mother and my father( driving in that moment), were cruising through twon, untill we went to the motorway, by that time we had a 996turbo (silver/and black interior) parallel through us, he was making some important accelerations in order to see the car from diferrent angles.... well never mind. .
    When it was time to go for the entrance to the motorway, the 996turbo(driven by a man and in the co-pilot seat may be his wife or whatever), was all time beside us, trying to intimidate us and push it!!. Finally after doing many <zic-zac> overtakes in the motorway because there was too much traffic, we started to pull hard, changing of gear up to 7.200rpm( sound was incredible), the 996 turbo also decided to push it, we went nearly all time behind him(only some metres of gap), but one thing is for sure, and it is that the 996turbo couldn't go and leave us behind!!!. Note: we were 3 people and in the turbo the driver and a women!!, so we had more weight, and turbo couldn't leave us in any way!!!.
    Well probably that turbo wasn't equipped with the X50 but the 997S is also very very quick and has an excellent response!!. We didn't passed of 200kph!!, so all you guys don't imagine we drive like maniacs,, because we DON'T!. Just this situations only happen several times, and its pretty exciting but at the same time very dangerous!!.

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    I am beset by the same dilemma. I have a Jan. '05 build date, but I often see some low-mileage 996TT's at the dealerships, priced the same as my 997S. For me, I will probably still go with the 997S, as the interior is just exponentially better than the 996 IMO, and I am interested in the new steering, suspension, brakes, etc. Of course, there is no 997TT available now, or else I just would have ordered THAT car!

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Alex...

    i am selling my 997s and buying another 996tt.When i bought the 997s i thought the new design,new interiors and generally having a fresh car would pay.I WAS WRONG.i don't wanna influence anybody.these are just MY opinions and MY need of extra power that i really miss now.

    the 996tt i am buying is awesom black/black.altough this car has a sad story.the owner passed away and his wife is selling it.the car is brand new(nov 2003 9000km)

    ZZZZMD.

    it's easeier for you to "accept"the lack of power cause you're not changing from a 996tt.But be sure of what YOU want before it's too late.

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Quote:
    Alex18_996CC said:
    ...the 996 turbo also decided to push it, we went nearly all time behind him(only some metres of gap), but one thing is for sure, and it is that the 996turbo couldn't go and leave us behind!!!.



    Then the Turbo wasn't trying very hard.

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Quote:
    Dock (Atlanta) said:
    Quote:
    Alex18_996CC said:
    ...the 996 turbo also decided to push it, we went nearly all time behind him(only some metres of gap), but one thing is for sure, and it is that the 996turbo couldn't go and leave us behind!!!.



    Then the Turbo wasn't trying very hard.



    Dock, some facts for you (test data from car magazines):

    1. 996 Turbo Tiptronic 0-125 mph in 16.6 sec.
    2. 997 Carrera S 0-125 mph in 16.1 sec.

    The 996 Turbo manual has been tested at around 14.6-15.1 seconds from 0-125 mph, around 1-1.5 seconds faster than the 997 Carrera S. Add the chrono sport package to the 997 Carrera S and somebody who knows to shift fast, add somebody who isn't that experienced in shifting fast on the Turbo and you get practically the same performance. I know there is a lot of theory too behind this but you get my point.

    It is no secret that my dealer and his sales staff monitors this forum, so this is no fantasy story, I told it before:
    a while ago, I met a 993 Turbo on the Autobahn. From 80 kph to around 220 kph, he wasn't able to pass me but only to get next to me. When we started at around 80 kph, he was around 10-15 meters behind me.
    And now the best part: this Turbo had the factory 450 HP kit. Of course I was alone and this guy had his wife with him (add another 60 kg or so) but he was very very surprised and me too.
    Last week he came to my dealer and talked to my sales man, he wanted to do a testdrive in the Carrera S because he was impressed. I had told my sales man about this encounter before the owner showed up at the dealership and yes, he came to my dealer because of the surprising encounter with me in the 997 Carrera S. So this is no fake story but a true story. I know the 997 Carrera S doesn't feel as powerful as a Turbo and this is pretty normal because it has a normally aspirated engine. My Cayenne Turbo feels much more powerful (which it actually is) but of course I can't outrun my 997 Carrera S. And the 996 Turbo Cab I had for a while also felt very powerful but it was of course mainly because of the excellent torque figure at lower rev figures due to the turbo chargers. Two different beasts.

    I would never sell a 996 Turbo to get a 997 Carrera S but if I would have to choose between two new cars now, I'd go again for the 997 Carrera S with 20 mm suspension. Of course this will change as soon as the 997 GT3 shows up and especially the new 997 Turbo. Right now I don't see a need for the 997 Turbo but I'm pretty sure that when it shows up, I'm sold. I just wish I have the necessary money by that time. Playing the lottery might not be a bad idea at all...

    Pictures shows 996 Turbo Cab a two days ago on the Autobahn.
    Speed is 303 kph, sorry for the bad picture quality.

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S


    Wow, Avedon I'm really shocked. How many kms has your 997S has??. Well I do have to say that I've nerver driven a 996turbo, but my father yes, and says that the difference its not so much!. Well different opinions, one thing is sure: the official performance says that the 996turbo is faster than the 997S, I don't doubt it, I'm just saying that a 997S can keep up with a turbo, that's it.

    But Avedon how can you get rid off, the beauty of the 997??, even in my opinion its now more exclusive than the turbo!(just my opinion).

    One quesion wha't's the fuel consumption of the X50??. Because the 997S doesn't move of 12.0litres per 100km and doesn't matter what range of rpm we change of gear !!.

    Well Avedeon, have good luck with your second 996turbo!!. By the way, are you giving to Porsche centro oeste your 997S??.

    Please post some pics when you have it. Ohh and congratulation for your new car!! . May be one day we can see each other at circuit in Madrid! , and we can see who is quicker!!!

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Alex...

    i want to have what i like.i never cared about exclusivity.it's just that the turbo makes my pressure go up i really love EVERYTHING(interiors,looks,etc)about the 997s but the power,torque aren't enough for me.when i told my girlfriend that i wanted to go back to the 996tt she was shocked she really loved the 997s cause there were no side holes(airintakes)and no wings...

    No alex,i sold my car privatley and will buy the 996tt privatley.

    BTW:

    RC;the 997tt won't come untill 2006,will it...

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Quote:
    avedon said:
    ...when i told my girlfriend that i wanted to go back to the 996tt she was shocked she really loved the 997s cause there were no side holes(airintakes)and no wings...
    ...



    Didn't I read that from someone else, too...?

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    996 Turbo X50 is faster, better looking, and has can handle much better if the conditions on the road were to get hectic.

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    I just drove both of these cars back to back yesterday and can readily tell you that the difference is the TORQUE! The TT has tons of it. The 997S not nearly enough by comparison. With the TT you can pull from 3000 RPM just by stomping on the gas in any gear, The 997S requires a downshift to put the engine at speed. The 997S may have a better suspension setup and tighter shifter linkage (not so sloppy) but the TT blows it away as there is ~444ft/lbs of Torque vs 295 ft/lbs in the 997S, Night and day when you are behind the wheel! Just my own observations.

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Quote:
    add somebody who isn't that experienced in shifting fast on the Turbo and you get practically the same performance.



    Which is why I said what I did...

    Two big factors people forget to consider are 1) the driver, and 2) The start. A mistake by either driver can skew the results by a wide margin. Just a half second difference for instance between when each driver goes WOT can result in huge end game differences. A driver who doesn't max perform his car in terms of shift RPM and/or the speed of the shift puts himself in a disadvantage.

    I believe a Turbo is faster without question, given equal drivers.

    The other great thing about the Turbo is if it isn't fast enough in stock form, it can easily be modified to ~500 hp with 500 lb-ft of torque.

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Quote:
    jabo said:
    The 997S may have a better suspension setup and tighter shifter linkage (not so sloppy)...



    Just add X73 and a B&M shifter to the Turbo and see what the difference is.

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Pictures shows 996 Turbo Cab a two days ago on the Autobahn.
    Speed is 303 kph, sorry for the bad picture quality.



    Closing the roof may improve picture quality in future top-speed runs

    Re: 996 Turbo X50 versus 997S

    Quote:
    Alex18_996CC said:

    Wow, Avedon I'm really shocked. How many kms has your 997S has??. Well I do have to say that I've nerver driven a 996turbo, but my father yes, and says that the difference its not so much!. Well different opinions, one thing is sure: the official performance says that the 996turbo is faster than the 997S, I don't doubt it, I'm just saying that a 997S can keep up with a turbo, that's it.

    But Avedon how can you get rid off, the beauty of the 997??, even in my opinion its now more exclusive than the turbo!(just my opinion).

    One quesion wha't's the fuel consumption of the X50??. Because the 997S doesn't move of 12.0litres per 100km and doesn't matter what range of rpm we change of gear !!.

    Well Avedeon, have good luck with your second 996turbo!!. By the way, are you giving to Porsche centro oeste your 997S??.

    Please post some pics when you have it. Ohh and congratulation for your new car!! . May be one day we can see each other at circuit in Madrid! , and we can see who is quicker!!!



    This is a fascinating debate. I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer. As usual it boils down to personal circumstances and preferences. The thrill of the new versus the power of the old. I'm sticking with the decision to ditch the X50 and get the 997 S in the hope that we don't have to wait beyond 2006 for the 997TT.

     
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