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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    Tesla employs over 10,000 Americans. I don’t care about how they survive as long as they do. And for the naysayers shorts, I hope their billion dollar loss is a wake up call. 

     

    Ford, GM, Chrysler employs more American, you didn't quite cheer for them did you?Smiley


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Nick, I’ll never cheer for any company to fail unless it’s fraudulent. kiss


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    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Hehe.

    At this point in time , Tesla will not fail. It already have a decently solid showing, they are making good enough cars for their primary market, the USA. Their cars literally are built around US specs. Amazing low down acceleration for stop light drag racing which the Americans love. Decent enough handling for the gentle curves around US highways, big enough inside room for big Americans, etc. It is an American car made for Americans.

    But it is also one reason why it's not quite good enough for Europeans or rest of the world. Narrower roads, tighter turns,  and the need for higher performance at higher speed, etc. 

    It's just design philosophy and worldwide car sale experience. Everyone else been selling cars worldwide for a long time, they know the difference in taste for all markets, Tesla is still young, they only know the American market. 

    One mold doesn't fit all, they will soon learn. Europeans and RoW loves wagons over SUV, Americans hates wagons. And Americans love their pickups even more.

    I believed Ford tried a 'world car' platform like a decade or something ago, it failed miserably.

    For Tesla to go high volume which they intended to do like Ford, GM, Toyota, they needed to diversify and do cars catering to each market.

    Anyways, the point is, Tesla's stock price is being artificially manipulated, Elon NEEDED the stock price to be above a certain level to maintain the debt they have taken on for the company and personally. Doing the numbers game on accounting to pretend they make a profit is just one of the tricks. 


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Nick you make good points with the possible exception regarding SUV’s. Americans love SUV’s. 
     

    I’m not a big fan of Musk but admire his genius and audacity. There are some financial experts that believe with the model Y and other yet to be announced initiatives the stock will go to $4000 a share. smiley


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    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    Nick you make good points with the possible exception regarding SUV’s. Americans love SUV’s. 
     

    I’m not a big fan of Musk but admire his genius and audacity. There are some financial experts that believe with the model Y and other yet to be announced initiatives the stock will go to $4000 a share. smiley

    This is what happens when states legalize recreational marijuana.  

    Tesla, as a company and as an investment, is at a major crossroad.  Its financial performance is definitely that of an also-run automaker and not that of a growth tech company, which its current market valuation suggests.  Whoopsy didn't mention that Tesla sales in its most important and mature market segment, the United States, are off by 40% as demand for its products, and its continual lowering of average sales prices, have reduced revenue.   This is in addition to the various accounting chicaneries relating to changing warranty reserves and other potential sleights-of-hand, Whoopsy noted in his previous post.

    More worrying is the muddled strategy Musk has taken the company.  The Model S/X component represents a low volume, high profit margin niche product approach whilst the Model 3/Y component represents a high volume, low margin approach favored by most, much larger automakers where scale is the name of the game.  As an example, look at the rationale both FCA and PSA Groupe are stating for their just announced merger.  Winging a strategy may work for a tech play like the early days of PayPal where software is readily modified and almost costlessly replicated while automaking has significant fixed cost assets that are difficult to readily redeploy.    


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    Nick you make good points with the possible exception regarding SUV’s. Americans love SUV’s. 
     

    I’m not a big fan of Musk but admire his genius and audacity. There are some financial experts that believe with the model Y and other yet to be announced initiatives the stock will go to $4 a share. smiley

    It seems that the shared platform has somewhat restricted the designer’s pen...

    C9A7BF76-EBDB-4233-BFF1-A834C0210420.jpeg

    ...do you like the look of the Tesla Model Y? Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    nberry:

    Nick you make good points with the possible exception regarding SUV’s. Americans love SUV’s. 
     

    I’m not a big fan of Musk but admire his genius and audacity. There are some financial experts that believe with the model Y and other yet to be announced initiatives the stock will go to $4 a share. smiley

    It seems that the shared platform has somewhat restricted the designers pen...

    C9A7BF76-EBDB-4233-BFF1-A834C0210420.jpeg

    ...do you like the look of the Tesla Model Y? Smiley

    That's a far cry away from Volkswagen Group's component set MQB, MLB, MEB, and PPE approaches where, using the MQB as an example, discrete models are as diverse as the Audi TT to the Volkswagen Atlas Suv for North America.   One is sure that the Tesla cult will remain as pedantic as usual on why Musk's/Tesla's approach is superior.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Each new Tesla model is uglier than the previous, the Model S was not bad when it came out for an american sedan, then came the Model X with the "minivan look", then came the Model 3 which is just silly and feminine looking, and now comes the Model Y which may actually beat the Model 3...


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:

    Nick you make good points with the possible exception regarding SUV’s. Americans love SUV’s. 
     

    I’m not a big fan of Musk but admire his genius and audacity. There are some financial experts that believe with the model Y and other yet to be announced initiatives the stock will go to $4000 a share. smiley

     

    $4000 a share Smiley Yeah I read those before. Think the most outrageous one is $10,000 Smiley But most of these are from 2-bit analysts trying to make a name for themselves, either they have to go super bull or super bear, at either of the extreme to get noticed, or else they are just another one in the pack. 

    Yeah I mean if Tesla can sell a million Model Y plus 1/2 million Model 3 plus another say 1/4 million Model S and 1/4 million model X, AND make loads of money off Solar City AND carries no debt AND have at least half the bank account of Apple then yeah sure they might worth $2000 a share....................

    And Nick, Americans love their SUV was implied when I said Europeans love their wagons and hates SUV but Americans hates wagons.I just didn't type those few letters as the subject was comparing the 2.


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I drove Leawood911's model 3 last week. Now I can understand the teslarati. Body panel gaps and spartan interior are more like endearing quirks compared to the overall driving experience.

    The mix of technology and power with excellent and quiet acceleration from a stop to terrific highway passing power. It is the future of transportation. At least in the USA. 

    While it may not be an autobahn blaster, or track day car, or a ton of fun on a twisty road; and it lacks any noticable sound; it is an excellent everyday driver. Overall I was very favorably impressed.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    nberry:

    Nick you make good points with the possible exception regarding SUV’s. Americans love SUV’s. 
     

    I’m not a big fan of Musk but admire his genius and audacity. There are some financial experts that believe with the model Y and other yet to be announced initiatives the stock will go to $4 a share. smiley

    It seems that the shared platform has somewhat restricted the designer’s pen...

    C9A7BF76-EBDB-4233-BFF1-A834C0210420.jpeg

    ...do you like the look of the Tesla Model Y? Smiley

    When and if I buy a car intended solely to get me from point A to point B, styling will not be a factor in my buying decision. Smiley


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    nberry:

    Nick you make good points with the possible exception regarding SUV’s. Americans love SUV’s. 
     

    I’m not a big fan of Musk but admire his genius and audacity. There are some financial experts that believe with the model Y and other yet to be announced initiatives the stock will go to $4 a share. smiley

    It seems that the shared platform has somewhat restricted the designer’s pen...

    C9A7BF76-EBDB-4233-BFF1-A834C0210420.jpeg

    ...do you like the look of the Tesla Model Y? Smiley

    Are these pictures with the correct ratio?

    Tesla Y is longer than Tesla 3 - in this picture Y is shorter


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    AM


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    nberry:

    Nick you make good points with the possible exception regarding SUV’s. Americans love SUV’s. 
     

    I’m not a big fan of Musk but admire his genius and audacity. There are some financial experts that believe with the model Y and other yet to be announced initiatives the stock will go to $4 a share. smiley

    It seems that the shared platform has somewhat restricted the designer’s pen...

    C9A7BF76-EBDB-4233-BFF1-A834C0210420.jpeg

    ...do you like the look of the Tesla Model Y? Smiley

    When and if I buy a car intended solely to get me from point A to point B, styling will not be a factor in my buying decision. Smiley

     

    Oh trust me it will! Dude, you have to walk by the car every day to get in!

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    nberry:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    nberry:

    Nick you make good points with the possible exception regarding SUV’s. Americans love SUV’s. 
     

    I’m not a big fan of Musk but admire his genius and audacity. There are some financial experts that believe with the model Y and other yet to be announced initiatives the stock will go to $4 a share. smiley

    It seems that the shared platform has somewhat restricted the designer’s pen...

    C9A7BF76-EBDB-4233-BFF1-A834C0210420.jpeg

    ...do you like the look of the Tesla Model Y? Smiley

    When and if I buy a car intended solely to get me from point A to point B, styling will not be a factor in my buying decision. Smiley

    Oh trust me it will! Dude, you have to walk by the car every day to get in!

    Tesla Model Y in standard white looks...

    F1267252-A5A6-41C4-B31D-38C17D560BD6.jpeg


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    nberry:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    nberry:

    Nick you make good points with the possible exception regarding SUV’s. Americans love SUV’s. 
     

    I’m not a big fan of Musk but admire his genius and audacity. There are some financial experts that believe with the model Y and other yet to be announced initiatives the stock will go to $4 a share. smiley

    It seems that the shared platform has somewhat restricted the designer’s pen...

    C9A7BF76-EBDB-4233-BFF1-A834C0210420.jpeg

    ...do you like the look of the Tesla Model Y? Smiley

    When and if I buy a car intended solely to get me from point A to point B, styling will not be a factor in my buying decision. Smiley

     

    Oh trust me it will! Dude, you have to walk by the car every day to get in!

     

    Not a chance. A car solely for transportation should be plain vanilla without any redeeming styling attributes. 


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    nberry:
    Whoopsy:
    nberry:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:
    nberry:

    Nick you make good points with the possible exception regarding SUV’s. Americans love SUV’s. 
     

    I’m not a big fan of Musk but admire his genius and audacity. There are some financial experts that believe with the model Y and other yet to be announced initiatives the stock will go to $4 a share. smiley

    It seems that the shared platform has somewhat restricted the designer’s pen...

    C9A7BF76-EBDB-4233-BFF1-A834C0210420.jpeg

    ...do you like the look of the Tesla Model Y? Smiley

    When and if I buy a car intended solely to get me from point A to point B, styling will not be a factor in my buying decision. Smiley

     

    Oh trust me it will! Dude, you have to walk by the car every day to get in!

     

    Not a chance. A car solely for transportation should be plain vanilla without any redeeming styling attributes. 

     

    An Aztec it is then.


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The proportions of Volkswagen’s EV crossover, even in camouflage, is significantly more attractive than the Tesla Model Y.   Now add Volkswagen’s perceived build quality and financial stability to the mix, what will the average consumer purchase on finance?

    https://www.motor1.com/news/379820/2021-vw-id4-crossover-teaser/

    VW ID.4 Teased In China, But Electric Crossover Is Coming To U.S.

    Adrian Padeanu

    The Volkswagen Group will finally kick off the production of its first MEB-based electric vehicle on Monday when the first ID.3 is going to roll off the assembly line at the Zwickau factory. The zero-emissions compact hatchback is just the tip of the iceberg as a lot more EVs are on their way, including the ID.4 (name not confirmed yet)first previewed in 2017 with the I.D. Crozz concept that was updated just a few months later.

     

    Gallery: VW ID.4 teasers

     

    VW ID.4 teaser

    4 Photos

     

    VW ID.4 teaserVW ID.4 teaserVW ID.4 teaserVW ID.4 teaser

    Promising Golf GTI-like handling – at least in concept form – the electric crossover will morph into a vehicle you’ll actually be able to buy in 2020. Following an official reveal allegedly scheduled for next spring, the ID.4 will be at a dealer in the United States in roughly about a year from now. Meanwhile, VW is teasing the model in China where it will be locally produced from late 2020. The aforementioned ID.3 will also be built in the People’s Republic through the SAIC VW joint venture.

    The ID.4 shown here is likely a pre-production prototype similar – if not identical – to the one VW had on display back in September at the Frankfurt Motor Show where the crossover was enclosed in a glass box with very little lighting as a way to hide the design cues. We can now see it in full, albeit the funky body wrap does a good job at masking the finer details. The blacked-out windscreen and the camo on the greenhouse suggest VW is not ready to reveal the vehicle’s interior yet.

    VW Tacqua

    2020 VW Tacqua crossover for China

    VW Viloran

    2020 VW Viloran minivan for China

    The ID.3 and ID.4 are part of a greater electrification plan VW is working on for China where it will launch 10 plug-in hybrids and EVs by late 2020 based on existing products. By 2023, there are going to be 10 EVs in China based on the MEB platform. In addition to the EV onslaught, new conventionally powered models will be launched locally, specifically the Tacqua compact crossover and the Viloran large minivan to follow 14 other models that have been launched in China since early 2018.

    As a final note, it is worth mentioning VW is not done with unveiling I.D. concepts as a new one will be introduced on November 19.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I like both the ID.3 and the ID.4 designwise and i think they are going to be a huge success for VAG.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    BBWUHym.img.jpeg

    This is exactly why American cars, American car designs get no respect international.

    Ford is making a Mustang crossover. Here is the interior.

    What's the first thing one noticed? They copied Tesla with the ugly looking giant unsightly screen in the middle. Then paired it up with a low grade interior. This is like a Model S interior combined with a Model 3 interior and only take the worse parts. 

    Tesla's use of a giant touch screen for everything was firstly a move to save money, nothing more. A screen is much cheaper than all the other buttons and gauges combined, and when it breaks it's easy and quick to replace. 

    Yes the 'in' trend is to use touch screens in cars, but they are not safe and completely not suitable for car use, phone yes, car no. But since every manufacturers are using them now that can forgiven. But at least put your designers to work and earn their salary by having them DESIGN something!!! The new Audi's, Land Rovers and even the Porsche Taycan have lots of touch screen areas but they are nicely INTEGRATED into the interior, not tacked on as an afterthought. (Mercedes is the most guilty party here from Germany). 

     


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    While I agree with you on the design, the Tesla touch display is much easier to use (in my opinion) than the one in the Panamera for example. At least as far as I remember. It looks way off (Mustang EV) though, I agree.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:

    While I agree with you on the design, the Tesla touch display is much easier to use (in my opinion) than the one in the Panamera for example. At least as far as I remember. It looks way off (Mustang EV) though, I agree.

     

    All the Porsche 'touchscreen' stuff before Taycan can be operated with a rotary button, thus avoiding using the touchscreen completely. Very big plus.


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    RC:

    While I agree with you on the design, the Tesla touch display is much easier to use (in my opinion) than the one in the Panamera for example. At least as far as I remember. It looks way off (Mustang EV) though, I agree.

     

    All the Porsche 'touchscreen' stuff before Taycan can be operated with a rotary button, thus avoiding using the touchscreen completely. Very big plus.

    I think this design is a clear example of where the Finance Team margins/cost targets are met by using a cheap touch display. I certainly would not purchase an automobile with this interior design. 


    --

    2016 Porsche 991 Carrera GTS  Black with AeroKit Cup Package,  2017 Porsche Cayenne Platinum  Purpurite Metallic, New York


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Pick one of the other type. Having both is the worst of all worlds. Logically speaking, taking the future into account, it is best to use one control surface rather than tons of switches and crap like that. Once tech is driving then glances at the screen will be no big deal. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    RC:

    While I agree with you on the design, the Tesla touch display is much easier to use (in my opinion) than the one in the Panamera for example. At least as far as I remember. It looks way off (Mustang EV) though, I agree.

     

    All the Porsche 'touchscreen' stuff before Taycan can be operated with a rotary button, thus avoiding using the touchscreen completely. Very big plus.

    I actually love using touch displays but they need to be usable. As far as I remember, the Tesla touch display was quite good and the GUI was fast. I hate the rotary button operation on the E63/C63, not a fan. Same goes to the Lambo but I guess this is a bad example anyway. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I understand the need to minimize the amount of buttons and to increase the number of "settable" items. I also understand that touchscreen buttons seem to be a good solution, but what is wrong  with having real or touchscreen buttons next to a screen, with at least a divider or any other way that you can feel where the button is without looking? It's all just laziness on behalf of the car manufacturers, trying to go for the cheapest/easiest way, without thinking what would be the best way.


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    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Joost:

    I understand the need to minimize the amount of buttons and to increase the number of "settable" items. I also understand that touchscreen buttons seem to be a good solution, but what is wrong  with having real or touchscreen buttons next to a screen, with at least a divider or any other way that you can feel where the button is without looking? It's all just laziness on behalf of the car manufacturers, trying to go for the cheapest/easiest way, without thinking what would be the best way.

    I think that certain functions like hazard lights, seat heating, etc. should be accessible by buttons, physical or not. 

    Good ergonomics do not mean having to browse through menus to access basic functions. Smiley

    It is my understanding that car manufacturers have people who design GUIs and optimize them from an ergonomics point of view but sometimes, I wonder if these people really know what they're doing because so far, I haven't seen a single GUI system to make me happy from every point of view. Smiley Maybe this is a future market to be looked at...


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The first generation iDrove. The universally hated one. But it’s the best. After about 10 mins it’s literally a attention free interface. No need to stare at it and very usable even when driving. 


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    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Tesla Cybertruck.  It certainly is different.  https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:

    Tesla Cybertruck.  It certainly is different.  https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck

    CGX car nut — will the flat panels / no curves make it cheaper to build?

    Maybe it’s been designed to be able to build in a tent?

    FA219D87-A451-44FA-9919-76B8ADD361B7.jpeg

    ...wonder what it would look like without the dodgy camouflage? Smiley

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Impressed by the new Tesla Armor Glass demo...

    ...erm, what happened? Smiley

    Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9GSo0LSKhk


     
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