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    Need a faster 997!

    A good friend of mine came to visit tonight and arrived in his BMW 330d M Sport. He's had the car re-mapped for a pending trip we have to the Ring later this year.

    We decided to see how quick it was when compared to my 997S. Very unscientific all this but we already knew my car would have the edge, I mean it's 55/60BHP more and quite a bit lighter.

    We did a standing start from 0 - 60. The 997 walked it to be honest, but the 330 was no slouch.

    What did surprise me was from 70 - 120ish. The 330 managed to show very impressive performance in this speed range almost to the extent the 997 needed to be above 6k rpm before it would start to catch it. I gained on the 330 quite steadily but was able to pull away at faster speeds.

    All i wanted to say was for a diesel that car is truely amazing. Very impressed indeed. I watched a clip on YouTube recently where a 335i had been re-mapped and it was even quicker to the extent it made a 997S look fairly tame in a straight line of course.

    Right, need a GT3 as it was too close.

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    You mean we need a diesel 997i?

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    It's no secret the 335i engine is a wolf in sheeps clothing. It puts out last year's M3 performance numbers.

    I'm really surprised BMW just didn't bump up the displacement and add bigger turbos for the 3.

    Diesels are no joke either - it's that all important torque number that makes them so dangerous in the low and mid range. They may not scoot of the line quick, but once underway on roll-on - they can embarrass many an unsuspecting driver.

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Too right - diesel has a much higher energy content than petrol so theoretically can even be faster than a petrol car - the main constraint is max revs which tend to be directly related to BHP as ReB hints. I think I heard somewhere that various firms were working on higher revving diesels, but I could be wrong...

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Porsche will never make Diesel engines for their sports cars as they are too heavy.

    Direct Injection Hybrid engines will be the next step forward.

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    well, actually GT3 was not any faster (or maybe only slight faster) from 0 to 100km/h comparing to a C2S with powerkit... so if feel the need to pull away from most cars on the market, maybe TT will be the only choice... or change to a car with bigger engine

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Yeah for BMW. Nice work.

    Oh..., wait a minute..., they're still FUGLY as cr*p and I solemnly vowed to stop buying them.

    Dammit! All of a sudden I find myself not giving a sh*t about their diesel accomlishments.

    (just kidding somewhat)

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Quote:
    WR said:
    well, actually GT3 was not any faster (or maybe only slight faster) from 0 to 100km/h comparing to a C2S with powerkit... so if feel the need to pull away from most cars on the market, maybe TT will be the only choice... or change to a car with bigger engine




    you will se the light in the GT2

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    But what happens when your friend tried to brake?

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    But what happens when your friend tried to brake?



    Ah thats true. He did say on the road we were on the car felt quite unstable at the top end speed. The 997 didn't blink to be honest. He is getting the car stiffened with a new ARB, suspension and the much talked about LSD conversion. This will help enormously.

    I still need a faster car. The BHP figures for myself have always increased over recent years...

    VW Golf 1.8T 150BHP
    VW 4 Motion 2.6 205BHP
    Audi TT 1.8T 225BHP
    Audi TT 3.2 250BHP?
    Porsche 997 C2S 355BHP

    It's only natural that 400 is the next benchmark.

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Interesting thread. My C2S wasn't an awful lot quicker than my 996C2. So since I can't buy a new GT3 in the UK or in Germany (I'm not fussy if it's LHD or RHD because I spend time in both) I'm pondering the X51 C2S.

    With the new M3, 335i and various turbos it's enough to give a C2S let alone a C2 a fright. Especially in that 50-120 range.

    But is an X51 kit enough? I don't want a 4WD 911 (turbo) and frankly 130k for a GT2 is steep even if you can get one.

    Having had a couple of interesting encounters with fast BMW's its clear the gap isn't what it was - although on hard twisy back roads the gap re-establishes itself-if you can see far enough.

    So I wonder if X51 is enough? I hear healthy examples dyno at close to 400hp but it's a pity PCCB is another 5k or so extra (less weight) and the GT3's doors aren't optional (weight).

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    I don't think that the financial raping you would realize, trading in your C2S for a new C2S X51, would be worth it, not even close. You're talking about a slight increase in performance, and it's not worth that much hurt.. I would just keep what you've got, unless you were ready to turn it in anyhow, in which case, the scenario makes more sense... Or the GT3, but then you lose a bit of refinement and every-day liveability, and you have to learn to like that awful wing.

    Honestly, and here come the flames and the insults and the high-brow pinky-wagging, but if you're a true-blue horsepower junkie, and you want some serious cajones without scribbling a $120K+ check, and you don't want a porky overweight Bimmer or Mercedes, the only real winner on the market is the Corvette, Z06, or the new '08 6.2L with 420hp/428lbft and all-new higher-tolerence steering. I've yet to drive one of course, but they're getting solid reviews, and have an upgraded interior option with panels sewn-up by the same outfit that handles Bentley and Merc.

    Not intending to start another stupid ranting back -n- forth thread, just commenting that the only way to satisfy the acceleration jones, without getting a porky car, without going AWD with the Turbo, and without spending mega-mega-bucks, is to travel DOWN the food chain to the old whipping-boy of Porsche fans, the plasti-mobile...

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Sold the C2S a few months ago intending to get GT3 somtime this year. I wobbled wondering about the facelift (2008 or 2009 model and recovered from a divorce so.... missed the boat). That'll teach me

    So.....to X51 or not to X51...that is the question!!

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Quote:
    ResB said:
    Right, need a GT3 as it was too close.



    You would need a BMW 335D to compete with that

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    John,

    Test one w/ X51 and then decide. No regrets here.

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    I don't think that the financial raping you would realize, trading in your C2S for a new C2S X51, would be worth it, not even close. You're talking about a slight increase in performance, and it's not worth that much hurt.. I would just keep what you've got, unless you were ready to turn it in anyhow, in which case, the scenario makes more sense... Or the GT3, but then you lose a bit of refinement and every-day liveability, and you have to learn to like that awful wing.

    Honestly, and here come the flames and the insults and the high-brow pinky-wagging, but if you're a true-blue horsepower junkie, and you want some serious cajones without scribbling a $120K+ check, and you don't want a porky overweight Bimmer or Mercedes, the only real winner on the market is the Corvette, Z06, or the new '08 6.2L with 420hp/428lbft and all-new higher-tolerence steering. I've yet to drive one of course, but they're getting solid reviews, and have an upgraded interior option with panels sewn-up by the same outfit that handles Bentley and Merc.

    Not intending to start another stupid ranting back -n- forth thread, just commenting that the only way to satisfy the acceleration jones, without getting a porky car, without going AWD with the Turbo, and without spending mega-mega-bucks, is to travel DOWN the food chain to the old whipping-boy of Porsche fans, the plasti-mobile...

    I think you wanted to say "cojones" as in testicles? "Cajones" just means big boxes. Just a pointer, not criticizing, of course.

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    The 997TT or the 997GT2 are the ultimate speed tools on public roads (tuned cars aside) and they can be used every day.

    I agree with you, it's frustrating to see sometimes a diesel car behind you, so hard to shake, close in the mirror but don't forget that they are turbo.

    So I believe too that the GT3 it's not the answer. If you don't want to spend that kind of money on a TT or a GT2, you either should consider a second hand one (the GT2 in particular will be an excellent used car choice) or consider the new Nissan GT-R. Also the new Corvette it's a good choice as people already pointed out but I don't know how much of an every day car can be.

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    I think you wanted to say "cojones" as in testicles? "Cajones" just means big boxes. Just a pointer, not criticizing, of course.



    I meant big boxes for testicles....

    Oh well, I'm not a typist by profession (thank goodness..)

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    I think you wanted to say "cojones" as in testicles? "Cajones" just means big boxes. Just a pointer, not criticizing, of course.



    I meant big boxes for testicles....

    Oh well, I'm not a typist by profession (thank goodness..)

    I think this is not a typist by profession issue, more a language issue. The "o" and the "a" are far enough apart on a keyboard for it to be a typographical error. The American pronunciation of some "o"s is prone to being confused with a Spanish "a" and that is likely the issue. This is so trivial, I know, but akin to you seeing an error made in English - it just pops right in front of your eyes. Regards!

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    I don't typically miss keys... I typically get way ahead of myself, and make mild-to-wild mistakes that my eye would recognize if I reviewed it or just slowed down... But thanks for the correction! As a percussionist in a former life, I always knew "cajones" to be a type of drum...???

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Cajones is plural for cajón. Cajón, apart from being a big box, can also mean a particular kind of percussion instrument like the one used in Spanish flamenco or in some Peruvian music. Not exactly a drum but a wooden box used for percussion/rhythm. I know exactly what you mean by getting ahead of oneself while writing. It usually happens to me too when it is a heated exchange or if the text is too long. Regards.

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    IMHO, Porsche's are not about drag racing...You will smoke that guy, or most BMWs, at any racetrack though...You really need to mod a stock BMW to compete with a stock Porsche ata racetrack. If you want to win drag races get a Corvette.

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Quote:
    tocho1 said:
    IMHO, Porsche's are not about drag racing...You will smoke that guy, or most BMWs, at any racetrack though...You really need to mod a stock BMW to compete with a stock Porsche ata racetrack. If you want to win drag races get a Corvette.



    With its Ring time of 7.50 the BMW M3 CSL is faster than all Porsches except the Carrera GT, GT2 and GT3.
    Including the 997 Turbo at 7.54.



    7:32.44 163.911 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, definitive time Horst Von Saurma (sport auto 01/2004)

    7:40* -- 161.217 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, *cold and partially wet track (sport auto 12/2003)

    7:40 --- 161.217 km/h -- Porsche GT3 RS, stock but Pirelli P Zero Corsa, Mattias Ekblom (ams)



    7:46 --- 159.142 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT2, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/2001)


    7:46 --- 159.142 km/h -- SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652hp (sport auto 1999)

    7:47 --- 158.801 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381hp (sport auto 03/2004)



    7:49 --- 158.124 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT3 Cup, 360 PS/1207 kg (sport auto 02/1999)



    7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- BMW E46 M3 CSL (sport auto 08/2003)

    7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- Blitz Supra, 750hp, Herbert Schürg (1997)

    7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- Lamborghini Murcielago, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/2002)


    7:52 --- 157.119 km/h -- Gemballa Porsche 911 Le Mans (sport auto 1995)

    7:52 --- 157.119 km/h -- Lamborghini Gallardo E-Gear (sport auto 12/2003)

    7:52 --- 157.119 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren (sport auto 06/2004)

    7:54 --- 156.456 km/h - Mercedes CLK DTM AMG, 582bPS/1678kg, (sport auto 03/2005), >>> http://speed.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=2&tID=27415

    7:54 --- 156.456 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT3 (sport auto 06/2003)

    7:55 --- 156.126 km/h -- Caterham R500 Superlight, Robert Nearn (EVO magazine 07/2000)

    7:56 --- 155.798 km/h -- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale, 425 PS/1387 kg (sport auto 02/2004)

    7:56 --- 155.798 km/h -- Porsche 996 Turbo, 420 PS/1569 kg (sport auto 06/2000)

    7:56 --- 155.798 km/h -- Chevrolet Corvette C6 (company test driver Dave Hill)

    7:57 --- 155.472 km/h -- Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600PS/1558 kg (sport auto 05/1998)

    7:59 --- 154.822 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting "Performance", (Walter Röhrl WHEELS 06/ 2004)

    7:59 --- 154.822 km/h -- Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R, Dirk Schoymans (Autocar magazine 1997)

    8:02 --- 154.338 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting "Sport", (Walter Röhrl WHEELS 06/ 2004)

    8:03 --- 153.540 km/h -- Porsche 911 GT3, 360 PS/1391 kg (sport auto 08/1999)

    8:04 --- 153.223 km/h -- Lamborghini Diablo GT, 575 PS/1620 kg (sport auto 07/2000)

    8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Ferrari 575M Maranello F1, 580 PS/1820 kg (sport auto 12/2002)

    8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM settino "Standard", Walter Röhrl (WHEELS 06/2004)

    8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355PS/1461kg (sport auto 05/2005), http://speed.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=2&tID=36440

    8:05 --- 152.907 km/h - Ruf CTR, >>> http://www.lad.lv/~martini/porsche/Videos/RUF-CTR_Nurburgring1.wmv

    8:06 --- 152.592 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG (sport auto 04/2002)

    8:06 --- 152.592 km/h -- Caterham 7 Superlight R, Robert Nearn

    8:07 --- 152.279 km/h - Ferrari 550 Maranello, 485 PS/1724 kg (sport auto 06/1998)

    8:09 --- 151.656 km/h -- Honda NSX-R, 320 PS/1467 kg (sport auto 08/2002)

    8:09 --- 151.656 km/h -- Ferrari 360 Modena , 400 PS/1464 kg (sport auto 10/1999)

    8:09 --- 151.656 km/h -- Lamborghini Diablo SV, 520 PS/1590 kg (sport auto 12/1997)

    8:10 --- 151.114 km/h - Aston Martin V8 Vantage (Top Gear feb,2005)

    8:10 --- 151.114 km/h -- Chrysler Viper GTS, 411 PS/1567 kg (sport auto 10/1997)

    8:10 --- 151.347 km/h -- Donkervoort D8 180R, 210 PS/650 kg (sport auto 03/2001)

    8:11* -- 151,274 km/h - Porsche Cayman S, 295 PS/1340 kg, test driver Walter Roehrl (*mfr.) (sport auto 07/2005)

    8:12 --- 150.732 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG, 476 PS/1651 kg (sport auto 04/2002)

    8:12 --- 150.732 km/h -- Porsche 993 Turbo (sport auto 03/1997)

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    I thought we were talking a 997 vs a 335...an M3 CSL is not a "stock" BMW...but whatever. It's all relative I guess.

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Quote:
    tocho1 said:
    I thought we were talking a 997 vs a 335...an M3 CSL is not a "stock" BMW...but whatever. It's all relative I guess.



    To the contrary, the CSL is a stock BMW.

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Then the GT3 and GT3RS are stock too I guess...?

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Quote:
    tocho1 said:
    Then the GT3 and GT3RS are stock too I guess...?



    Yes. Stock means a standard production car as sold by the manufacturer.

    Re: Need a faster 997!

    Super

     
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