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    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    reginos:

    Now the 3.4 Carrera costs 60% more than the 3.4 Boxster S. 

    not true in the UK.

    list Boxster S: around £46k

    list C2: around £71k

    But C2 in the UK has full leather interior, PCM and climate control, all of which are options on the 981S. These options add around £4k, taking 981 cost to £50k, like for like. As a result, 991 costs about 40% more than 981S.


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    That's still 40% more for essentially the same engine, similiar switchgear and technically the same front end. And whether it is 40 or 55% more, that is financially quite a difference.


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    sfo:
    reginos:

    Now the 3.4 Carrera costs 60% more than the 3.4 Boxster S. 

    not true in the UK.

    list Boxster S: around £46k

    list C2: around £71k

    But C2 in the UK has full leather interior, PCM and climate control, all of which are options on the 981S. These options add around £4k, taking 981 cost to £50k, like for like. As a result, 991 costs about 40% more than 981S.

    To be fair, then I would compare it to the 911 Carrera cabriolet which is GBP 79.9 rather than the coupe. The Boxster comes with a foldable soft-top as standard, the 911 not.

    The price difference between the 911 and the Boxster is both genius and ridiculous at the same time. A majority of the components are shared between the cars, including the engine and the gearbox. It does not cost more to build a 991 than a 981.


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    bluelines:

    The price difference between the 911 and the Boxster is both genius and ridiculous at the same time. A majority of the components are shared between the cars, including the engine and the gearbox. It does not cost more to build a 991 than a 981.

    More ingenious than ridiculous, I think:
    -  Without a 981 to increase production quantities and thus reduce costs of common and similar parts the 991 would not be as profitable as it is.
    -  Without a very profitable 991 to justify the investment in the complete "9X1 package" the 981 might not be worth building at all. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    fritz:
    bluelines:

    The price difference between the 911 and the Boxster is both genius and ridiculous at the same time. A majority of the components are shared between the cars, including the engine and the gearbox. It does not cost more to build a 991 than a 981.

    More ingenious than ridiculous, I think:
    -  Without a 981 to increase production quantities and thus reduce costs of common and similar parts the 991 would not be as profitable as it is.
    -  Without a very profitable 991 to justify the investment in the complete "9X1 package" the 981 might not be worth building at all. 

    Indeed. It is more ridiculous from a buyers perspective, pay 50% higher price to get 10% more car. With the more aggressive and attractive design of the 981 compared to it's predecessors I think the more traditional 991 buyers are warming up to the 981 (especially with today's financial climate).


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    You seem to be forgeting the Cayman, which is the best P in terms of value for money IMHO.


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    REALZEUS:

    You seem to be forgeting the Cayman, which is the best P in terms of value for money IMHO.

    I think nobody has mentioned the Boxster Coupé in this thread simply because it hasn't been shown yet in 981 form, so prices have not been announced, and the open version was always considered better value than the closed car in the past. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    fritz:
    REALZEUS:

    You seem to be forgeting the Cayman, which is the best P in terms of value for money IMHO.

    I think nobody has mentioned the Boxster Coupé in this thread simply because it hasn't been shown yet in 981 form, so prices have not been announced, and the open version was always considered better value than the closed car in the past. 

    The closed car was the better one though. Maybe I am a bit biased, I never liked convertibles myself.


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    REALZEUS:
    fritz:
    REALZEUS:

    You seem to be forgeting the Cayman, which is the best P in terms of value for money IMHO.

    I think nobody has mentioned the Boxster Coupé in this thread simply because it hasn't been shown yet in 981 form, so prices have not been announced, and the open version was always considered better value than the closed car in the past. 

    ...I am a bit biased, I never liked convertibles myself.

    Yeah, I think that counts for being biased Smiley


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    REALZEUS:

    You seem to be forgeting the Cayman, which is the best P in terms of value for money IMHO.

    Porsche is one of the few car brands, if not the only, who managed to sell the coupe version of a car for a higher price than the cabriolet version. Kudos to their marketing department for this.

    I would not take the Cayman over the Boxster and yes I am biased too Smiley


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    bluelines:

    I would not take the Cayman over the Boxster and yes I am biased too Smiley

    Neither would I - and we've had both 


    --

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    dreamcar:
    bluelines:

    I would not take the Cayman over the Boxster and yes I am biased too Smiley

    Neither would I - and we've had both 

    Do you really like the extra weight, less stiffness and the noise of the air, not to mention the head choppping potential in case of a roll over? Smiley

    PS: I have rolled a car before (don't ask) and I tell you, it was a pleasure to have metal over my head! Smiley


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    REALZEUS:
    Do you really like the extra weight, less stiffness and the noise of the air, not to mention the head choppping potential in case of a roll over? Smiley

    PS: I have rolled a car before (don't ask) and I tell you, it was a pleasure to have metal over my head! Smiley

    yes, absolutely ..

    you have the option of wind in your hair, smelling the countryside and enjoying the blue skies with the roof down ..

    and when you want snug, roof up, and it's almost exactly like a Cayman .. the 981 is much quieter roof up.

    981 chassis is much stiffer than 987 .. doubt 981 Cayman's extra stiffness will be noticeable

    on top of all that, a few thousand £ cheaper

    weight wise, 987 C was not significantly lighter than Boxster, about 15kg?

    what's not to like?


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    REALZEUS:
    dreamcar:
    bluelines:

    I would not take the Cayman over the Boxster and yes I am biased too Smiley

    Neither would I - and we've had both 

    Do you really like the extra weight, less stiffness and the noise of the air, not to mention the head choppping potential in case of a roll over? Smiley

    No I don't like the additional weight of the Cayman over the Boxster Smiley

    I also never had an issue with a flexing chassis even though I have been tracking a Boxster for many years. It feels as solid as a 911 coupe.


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    sfo:
     

    weight wise, 987 C was not significantly lighter than Boxster, about 15kg?

    It was actually heavier than the Boxster. Hence the premium price Smiley


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    bluelines:
    sfo:
     

    weight wise, 987 C was not significantly lighter than Boxster, about 15kg?

    It was actually heavier than the Boxster. Hence the premium price Smiley

    Er no, the Cayman was marginally lighter but not a noticeable difference. I still do not like a car that can chop my head off. Smiley


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    If you worry so much, Get a Volvo wagon.indecision    The new Boxster has massive roll over bars to protect the occupants. Don't worry! kiss


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    Apologies, the Cayman S is 5kg lighter than the Boxster S. I got it all confused with the Cayman R versus the Spyder where the latter is 20kg lighter.

    Cayman S 1350kg versus Boxster S 1355kg (unladen DIN)

    Cayman R 1295kg versus Boxster Spyder 1275kg (unladen DIN)


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    The Boxster is an excellent car but it suffers from an image problem.

    Though I rarely drive my wife's S the other day she asked whether I would fill up the gas tank for her. I took it to a station and while at the pump a car pulled behind me  and gassed up as well. He approached me and wanted to discuss the S. I told him it was an excellent car and he asked why didn't I get the 911.

    MY response "It's my wife's car". He responded " Women love the Boxster".

    It is what it is.laugh


    --

     


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    JimFlat6:

    If you worry so much, Get a Volvo wagon.indecision    The new Boxster has massive roll over bars to protect the occupants. Don't worry! kiss

    You also need fixed belts and bucket seats, otherwise you are going to be all over the place mate. Smiley


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    bluelines:

    Apologies, the Cayman S is 5kg lighter than the Boxster S. I got it all confused with the Cayman R versus the Spyder where the latter is 20kg lighter.

    Cayman S 1350kg versus Boxster S 1355kg (unladen DIN)

    Cayman R 1295kg versus Boxster Spyder 1275kg (unladen DIN)

    Fair enough. Care to share some lap times also? Smiley


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    REALZEUS:
    bluelines:

    Apologies, the Cayman S is 5kg lighter than the Boxster S. I got it all confused with the Cayman R versus the Spyder where the latter is 20kg lighter.

    Cayman S 1350kg versus Boxster S 1355kg (unladen DIN)

    Cayman R 1295kg versus Boxster Spyder 1275kg (unladen DIN)

    Fair enough. Care to share some lap times also? Smiley

    To get a fair result you need to compare them side-by-side. There are not many comparisons out there but this one is interesting since they drive them on the same day and with the same driver  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YwG2wD69P4

    There is also an article about the test here  http://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/196/articles/open-and-shut-case-track-test and the lap times were 31.5 seconds for the Spyder and 32.1 seconds for the R (each is the fastest lap of six).


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    are there many, if any, reports of Boxsters of any generation rolling over?


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    sfo:

    are there many, if any, reports of Boxsters of any generation rolling over?

    Spontaneously? No Smiley

    Of course it could (easily) happen in an accident, on the road or the track. I never heard of an occasion where this happened and the damaged caused. The roll over bars are built to handle this and the windshield bars re-enforced, but you could be unlucky to hit something in between the bars while rolling.


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    REALZEUS:

    Do you really like the extra weight, less stiffness and the noise of the air, not to mention the head choppping potential in case of a roll over? Smiley

    PS: I have rolled a car before (don't ask) and I tell you, it was a pleasure to have metal over my head! Smiley

    Extra weight is marginal and has negligible effect on either performance or economy. Boxster has an extremely stiff  body, I have never had an issue with flexing, even on very uneven roads.

    All open top cars have to undergo rigorous crash tests to ensure safety of occupants in the very unlikely rollover accident. Car has roll bars and reinforced A pillars as mentioned in blueline's post above.

    Don't like the claustrophobic cabin of the Cayman, don't like the much harder ride of the Cayman, don't like being ripped off paying more for less. Going from a Boxster S 3.4 to a Cayman S PDK was a major disappointment and a retrograde step in every way other than the more efficient DFI engine and PDK transmission.

    Like sfo I enjoy open top motoring, there is no substitute. And before you ask I don't like the 997 cabrio. Pug ugly styling puts me off it.

    ---

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    nberry:

    The Boxster is an excellent car but it suffers from an image problem.

    I couldn't care less about the car's perceived image or what anybody else thinks. I buy a car for my needs, not theirs.

    I wonder why customers are trading Aston Martin V8 Vantages and in one case a Ferrari California for the new Boxster?


    --

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    bluelines:
    sfo:

    are there many, if any, reports of Boxsters of any generation rolling over?

    Spontaneously? No Smiley


    Even if it would roll over, the only advantage of the Cayman would be against intruding objects between the windshield and the rollover bars. How often does that incident occur? This would have to be a guard rail for example that slots in exactly there and I would like to know about the rigidity of the Cayman´s metal roof then. Apart from the fact that the low center of gravity makes it much less likely to roll over, compared to a Jeep Grand Cherokee for example...

    I guess any motorcycle rider would laugh about the concerns we have here. Smiley


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    dreamcar:
    nberry:

    The Boxster is an excellent car but it suffers from an image problem.

    I couldn't care less about the car's perceived image or what anybody else thinks. I buy a car for my needs, not theirs.


    Indeed. Apart from the fact that the 981 Boxster has a much more masculine stance than some of its predecessors. I even prefer some of the design elements over the 991.


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    bluelines:

    Apologies, the Cayman S is 5kg lighter than the Boxster S. I got it all confused with the Cayman R versus the Spyder where the latter is 20kg lighter.

    Cayman S 1350kg versus Boxster S 1355kg (unladen DIN)

    Cayman R 1295kg versus Boxster Spyder 1275kg (unladen DIN)


    Guess those are the factory specs... Smiley

    Sport Auto made a nice Supertest comparison with both models, the Boxster S and Cayman S and, despite having a very similiar spec sheet (same suspension and brake configuration as well as the same bucket seats), the Cayman was 11 kg heavier than the open-top variant. Not that it makes a big difference but therefore I don´t believe in much of that factory claims.

    They both are almost equally fast and post similiar laptimes. The difference on the Nordschleife is one second, the difference of 0.8 seconds at Hockenheim has not been sufficiently explained in the article. What they do mention though that the rigidity of the Boxster does not necessarily leave any need for improvement.


    Re: Only 6000 Nissan GTRs sold to date

    dreamcar:
    REALZEUS:

    Do you really like the extra weight, less stiffness and the noise of the air, not to mention the head choppping potential in case of a roll over? Smiley

    PS: I have rolled a car before (don't ask) and I tell you, it was a pleasure to have metal over my head! Smiley

    Extra weight is marginal and has negligible effect on either performance or economy. Boxster has an extremely stiff  body, I have never had an issue with flexing, even on very uneven roads.

    All open top cars have to undergo rigorous crash tests to ensure safety of occupants in the very unlikely rollover accident. Car has roll bars and reinforced A pillars as mentioned in blueline's post above.

    Don't like the claustrophobic cabin of the Cayman, don't like the much harder ride of the Cayman, don't like being ripped off paying more for less. Going from a Boxster S 3.4 to a Cayman S PDK was a major disappointment and a retrograde step in every way other than the more efficient DFI engine and PDK transmission.

    Like sfo I enjoy open top motoring, there is no substitute. And before you ask I don't like the 997 cabrio. Pug ugly styling puts me off it.

    ---

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

    Preferences mate. I have had al fresko motoring from E-Type Jags to the Commander post of our MBTs. Good for the sheer fun but when you are really gunning for it, I prefer a closed cockpit.  Smiley


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!


     
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