Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    I'm confused (sorry if this is explained elsewhere). Why are the NA 997/S and the TT Carreras called a "GT" (Gran Touring) car and the GT2,3 are also apparently called GT cars?

    I thought the difference was the GT car was meant for a degree of comfort combined with practicality for lengthy road trips. However the GT2,3 seem unconcerned with comfort and practicality and, instead are aimed at the exigencies of the race track; why then the "GT" designation?


    --
    2007 997 Turbo

    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    The GT2 and GT3 nomenclature comes form the "old"ACO classification for the different racing classes.

    The top class was called GT1 (remember the Porsche GT1 driven by McNish) . It is now called LMP1 (Prototypes).

    The old GT2 class is todays GT1 and the old GT3 class is today's GT2. (That's why you have a Porsche GT3 racing in GT2.)

    Clear?



    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    i had replied to MMD but it got lost....

    Porsche's GT does not refer to GRAN TURISMO as correctly stated by spyder.

    It refers to the racing classification of GT 1/2/3

     


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    nice discussion

    so what I have got from it is that Porsche will differentiate Turbo and GT2 in terms of performance and handling.

    Porsche position Turbo as a DD, and GT2 as a track car.

    BUt the question is still here - what to do against GT-R which is somewhere middle between Turbo and GT2?

    What is easier - to make Turbo more sporty or to make GT2 more comfortable?:-)


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    artur777:

    nice discussion

    so what I have got from it is that Porsche will differentiate Turbo and GT2 in terms of performance and handling.

    Porsche position Turbo as a DD, and GT2 as a track car.

    BUt the question is still here - what to do against GT-R which is somewhere middle between Turbo and GT2?

    What is easier - to make Turbo more sporty or to make GT2 more comfortable?:-)


            honstly i think neither nor.......a good driver will kill a gt-r with a gt3.

    if it's you only porsche, get a turbo and leave it stock. if you like sportscars and have the means and will to have several get the gt2 amongst others.

    i think one can even live with a turbo as the only car.....not so with the gt2.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    you can make the turbo tougher and more track oriented....but then you would loose some of the daily driver appeal.
    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    intouch1:

    i think one can even live with a turbo as the only car.....not so with the gt2.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

            Objection, Sir! If I had to live with just one car it would be the GT2 (no kidding) Smiley


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    Your reply is very nice,

    But don't forget that GT2 is RWD and if you have nowy winters, its better to have AWD!

    RWD cars with suc hp level are just dangetous in winters...

    If you live in Miami, I could understand you but if in Northern Europe - then no:-)

    On this part, the opinion of intouch1 is closer to me


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    Spyderidol:

    Clear?

    Yup! Thanks Buddy. Smiley


    --
    2007 997 Turbo

    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    MKSGR:
    intouch1:

    i think one can even live with a turbo as the only car.....not so with the gt2.


            Objection, Sir! If I had to live with just one car it would be the GT2 (no kidding) Smiley

    For people who have grown up on the aircooled Porsches it has to be the GT2, it is plenty comfortable enough for a daily driver (I have a 40 mile commute with plenty of stop start traffic) the turbo is a softie for the "SL" generation :)

            


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    TB993tt:
    MKSGR:
    intouch1:

    i think one can even live with a turbo as the only car.....not so with the gt2.


            Objection, Sir! If I had to live with just one car it would be the GT2 (no kidding) Smiley

    For people who have grown up on the aircooled Porsches it has to be the GT2, it is plenty comfortable enough for a daily driver (I have a 40 mile commute with plenty of stop start traffic) the turbo is a softie for the "SL" generation :)

    Well i'm with you,but not at 100%,becouse i have a Turbo due to i can't afford a GT2...not becouse i prefer the Turbo at the Gt2 due is more soft and "easy" to driveSmiley

     we must take in consideration also the different price tagSmiley


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    Super Darius:
    TB993tt:
    MKSGR:
    intouch1:

    i think one can even live with a turbo as the only car.....not so with the gt2.


            Objection, Sir! If I had to live with just one car it would be the GT2 (no kidding) Smiley

    For people who have grown up on the aircooled Porsches it has to be the GT2, it is plenty comfortable enough for a daily driver (I have a 40 mile commute with plenty of stop start traffic) the turbo is a softie for the "SL" generation :)

    Well i'm with you,but not at 100%,becouse i have a Turbo due to i can't afford a GT2...not becouse i prefer the Turbo at the Gt2 due is more soft and "easy" to driveSmiley

     we must take in consideration also the different price tagSmiley


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Agreed. It's a SIGNIFICANT price difference. And it's more than just the price difference.

    No doubt the GT2 is king of the track, however, I have a hard time believing that the (very) difficult ingress/egress and (very) heavy clutch of the GT2 allows it to be a *reasonable* daily driver for the majority of people. Note: I don't think I am either fat or wimpy.Smiley

    In addition, if I were to spend the same amount of money, I would get a Turbo plus a 996 GT3. To me, this combination is "better" than a GT2. Naturally aspirated engine with its linear response, plus Turbo nuclear power plant. One for daily drive, one for the track; one can't lose!

    Also, in the US, the same amount of money for the GT2 buys the Lamborghini Gallardo, and extremely compelling mid-engine car that yields very little to the GT2 and to some people a "better" choice. Some highlights: An exhaust note to end all exhaust notes, incredibly powerful, responsive, and linear V10, mid engine chassis, jaw dropping form/design (to some) that the 911 form, as nice as it is, simply can't match.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein PSS10 (Review) + Cargraphic Exhaust (Heavenly Race Car Noise Smiley Review)


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    cannga:
    We all want the current Turbo to be faster, and it is not without flaws, but you must remember it is 7:52 and not 7:32 for many reasons: some passenger comfort ... many owners, including me, want those features....


            And don't forget all that avoir dupois related to sound deadening, making the Turbo so starkly quiet you can focus on a Mozart sonata at 90 mph on the Turbo's built-in Krell sound system (though admittedly, not in the cab version at that velocity).


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    cannga:

    I have a hard time believing that the (very) difficult ingress/egress and (very) heavy clutch of the GT2 allows it to be a *reasonable* daily driver for the majority of people. Note: I don't think I am either fat or wimpy.Smiley

    Also, in the US, the same amount of money for the GT2 buys the Lamborghini Gallardo, an extremely compelling mid-engine car that yields very little to the GT2 and to some people a "better" choice.

    Are you thinking of the 996 GT2's bucket seat when you complain of "difficult ingress/egress"?Smiley

    Apart from the fact that the Adaptive Sports Seat is available as an option anyway, the 997 GT2 bucket seats are much easier to get into / out of than I remember falling backwards across the wide door sills of the Gallardo as being. Smiley

    When I have driven a manual tranny Turbo, I've had to take a while to get accustomed to the servo-assisted clutch. It always went to the floor so easily that I thought it was broken. Smiley
    I found the heavier clutch of the GT2 "balanced" well with the firm PCCB brake pedal, the short-throw gear lever, and the direct feel of the steering. It's probably just a question of what you are accustomed to.

     


    --
    fritz

    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    aGrant:
    cannga:
    We all want the current Turbo to be faster, and it is not without flaws, but you must remember it is 7:52 and not 7:32 for many reasons: some passenger comfort ... many owners, including me, want those features....


            And don't forget all that avoir dupois related to sound deadening, making the Turbo so starkly quiet you can focus on a Mozart sonata at 90 mph on the Turbo's built-in Krell sound system (though admittedly, not in the cab version at that velocity).

    Ahh... another audiophile. Smiley Interesting you should mention that name. Mine is Krell FPB600 (matched with Conrad Johnson tube pre and Linn Sondek & Koetsu Rosewood).
    Before I had dedicated 20 amp lines, the house's lighting used to flicker with every bass line or drum beat. It was quite a show, really. Smiley


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein PSS10 (Review) + Cargraphic Exhaust (Heavenly Race Car Noise Smiley Review)


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    fritz:
    cannga:

    I have a hard time believing that the (very) difficult ingress/egress and (very) heavy clutch of the GT2 allows it to be a *reasonable* daily driver for the majority of people. Note: I don't think I am either fat or wimpy.Smiley

    Also, in the US, the same amount of money for the GT2 buys the Lamborghini Gallardo, an extremely compelling mid-engine car that yields very little to the GT2 and to some people a "better" choice.

    Are you thinking of the 996 GT2's bucket seat when you complain of "difficult ingress/egress"?Smiley

    Apart from the fact that the Adaptive Sports Seat is available as an option anyway, the 997 GT2 bucket seats are much easier to get into / out of than I remember falling backwards across the wide door sills of the Gallardo as being. Smiley

    When I have driven a manual tranny Turbo, I've had to take a while to get accustomed to the servo-assisted clutch. It always went to the floor so easily that I thought it was broken. Smiley
    I found the heavier clutch of the GT2 "balanced" well with the firm PCCB brake pedal, the short-throw gear lever, and the direct feel of the steering. It's probably just a question of what you are accustomed to.


    --
    fritz

    My point is not about the inherent and absolute goodness of the GT2, its clutch, or its seating position. It is about whether the GT2 could be **reasonably** used as a daily driver and in stop and go traffic.

    I am 155 lbs, 5'7" (and getting shorter); I am no Michael Jordan but could move about ok. And yes I did find ingress/egress to be not just difficult, but quite difficult because of the high side bolster and the low to the ground seat position. For the track or a weekend car, no problem. For a daily driver, to me, yes it would be.

    As to whether anyone should order a GT2 with an adaptive seat.  For me, no! While this works well for a daily driver, I would hate it and constantly think about how I could have the lighter and incredibly more beautiful carbon fiber seat when I take the car out on weekends and to the track. I would not want this compromise.

    Similarly, no problem with the clutch in absolute terms (love it in fact), but only as used in a daily driver. It is one of the heaviest clutches I have felt in a mass production sports car and I personally would not want to endure this after a long day at work, in stop and go traffic. But again, I must emphasize this: YMMV.

    My opinion is the very fact that the GT2 is among the greatest track cars in the world almost by definition makes it a no-go as a daily driver. For most people that is.
    Is it one of the greatest sports cars in the world? No doubt.
    Would I like to have it? Are you kidding?
    Would I take it over a Lambo LP640 or a Turbo+996 GT3 combo? Hmmm.... Smiley


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein PSS10 (Review) + Cargraphic Exhaust (Heavenly Race Car Noise Smiley Review)


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    gt2 with adaptives is a no go imo

    krell is not audiophile quality....too strong in the bass and treble....again imo. prefer my halcro dm78's Smiley

    cannga,...you pretty much summed up the problem of the gt2.....at it's price point most people would go shopping for the italians. i wouldn't and didn't due to the fact that while the gt2 being one of the best sports cars it is subtle and blends in. in no way does it attract the attention of the italian offerings.

    and those in the know bow before you and tell you it's the greatest.

    i was a at a vintage car exhib with a friend a few days ago. actually it  was a rallye from the uk through tunisia, lybia and the finishing line was here at the red sea. i had parked my gt2 right behind my friends f430. we were watching from the balcony 4 metres above. the gt2 got far more interest than the 430. only one lady commented that the 430 is the best in the world.....you guessed right....she was italian Smiley

    wheras you see porsches on almost every corner nowadays.....you will find far less gt'2 than either 430s or gallardos....

     


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    Interesting thread Smiley
    As for the GT2 seats: my father (75 years old) had absolutely no problems in climbing in/out (GT3). In fact he stated, that the exercise was much easier for him than to get into a friend's BMW 1 series he used just the other day Smiley
    Regarding the stiff clutch: is the GT2 clutch similar to the GT3 clutch ? In the GT3 the only situation where I find it a bit uncomfortable is in stop-and-go. And at traffic lights I'm now engaging 1st gear only quite late Smiley
    Once the car is rolling, 2nd-6th gear are a joy with the stiffer clutch. When I switch to the BoxsterS after driving the GT3 I'm under the impression that the clutch in the Boxey is broken Smiley

    --
    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    i really do not find the clutch stiff...on the contrary i find it great to modulate....
    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    "stiff" may be the wrong word - yes, the clutch is perfect to modulate (IMO much better than the servo-assisted clutches in the other P-cars) Smiley fritz's description as "heavier" (= needs a more muscular left leg Smiley ) is better.


    --
    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

     I was worried about it before getting the car, (so much so that I had made enquiries about retrofitting an hydraulic unit) after experiencing the horrible clutch/throttle "show" of the Carrera GT... The clutch is no problem for a daily driver, I have athletic (read skinny !) legs and all that is needed in traffic is just to pop it into neutral everytime you stop.... used like this it really is not an issue.... In use the clutch is very good with a linear action and in combination with the throttle response makes it an easy drive....

    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    TB993tt:
     I was worried about it before getting the car, (so much so that I had made enquiries about retrofitting an hydraulic unit) after experiencing the horrible clutch/throttle "show" of the Carrera GT... The clutch is no problem for a daily driver, I have athletic (read skinny !) legs and all that is needed in traffic is just to pop it into neutral everytime you stop.... used like this it really is not an issue.... In use the clutch is very good with a linear action and in combination with the throttle response makes it an easy drive....

    I have to say that the quality (feel) of clutch and gear lever (as soon as the oil has reached optimal temperature...) is the best I have ever experienced in any road car Smiley BTW, this basically can be said about all other important sportscar qualities of the GT2: steering, suspension, brakes... You see, I really love this car Smiley


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    intouch1:

    krell is not audiophile quality....too strong in the bass and treble....again imo. prefer my halcro dm78's Smiley

    OT:

    intouch1: Halcro? You're a man of great taste! Smiley Re. Krell: all about system matching IMO -- note my CJ pre amp and phono stage, and the Koetsu Rosewood. I have given many demo's to a good number of  so-called golden ears over the years. They tend to come out of my house speechless. I mean in a good way. Smiley Well maybe except aGrant -- but he can't hear anyway (kidding kidding).

    aGrant: LOL. Real cute; you did get me hook line and sinker. What happened? email communication not enough for you? Smiley I did wonder about the post count of 1.

    GT2 owners: Any of you upgrading the exhaust to Cargraphic? I think you will love it. The stock GT2 exhaust note -- titanium or not -- is about the ONLY and most glaring "weakness" I could think of about the car. Oh maybe the wheels too -- something lighter?       


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein PSS10 (Review) + Cargraphic Exhaust (Heavenly Race Car Noise Smiley Review)


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    cannga:
    intouch1:

    krell is not audiophile quality....too strong in the bass and treble....again imo. prefer my halcro dm78's Smiley

    OT:

    intouch1: Halcro? You're a man of great taste! Smiley Re. Krell: all about system matching IMO -- note my CJ pre amp and phono stage, and the Koetsu Rosewood. I have given many demo's to a good number of  so-called golden ears over the years. They tend to come out of my house speechless. I mean in a good way. Smiley Well maybe except aGrant -- but he can't hear anyway (kidding kidding).

    aGrant: LOL. Real cute; you did get me hook line and sinker. What happened? email communication not enough for you? Smiley I did wonder about the post count of 1.

    GT2 owners: Any of you upgrading the exhaust to Cargraphic? I think you will love it. The stock GT2 exhaust note -- titanium or not -- is about the ONLY and most glaring "weakness" I could think of about the car. Oh maybe the wheels too -- something lighter?       


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein PSS10 (Review) + Cargraphic Exhaust (Heavenly Race Car Noise Smiley Review)


            thanks cannga.....and ofcourse i have all respect for krell....was just teasing.

    what have you got them hooked up to ? i love the combination of the Halcro's with my JMLab Nova Utopia's...front end is a dCS P8i....clean and simple setup.....


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    i actually quite like the stock sound of the gt2 as it does not scream when in traffic.

    i find that once you step on it it sounds fairly well. miles better than the turbo.

     


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    The nice thing about the GT2 is that you can just change out the cats, leaving the titanium exhaust, sounds great!


    --

    Chris '07 997 TT Midnight on Sea

    Farnbacher-Loles prepped!


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    intouch1:

            honstly i think neither nor.......a good driver will kill a gt-r with a gt3.


    Unfortunately Chris Harris whom I think is a very good driver, couldn't kill GT-R with the MKI GT3.

    There is an AutoCar video on the net; both in accelaration and on track GT-R was noticeable faster Smiley


    --

    ONUR

    09 Audi TTS Ibis

    07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    pride355:
    intouch1:

            honstly i think neither nor.......a good driver will kill a gt-r with a gt3.


    Unfortunately Chris Harris whom I think is a very good driver, couldn't kill GT-R with the MKI GT3.

    There is an AutoCar video on the net; both in accelaration and on track GT-R was noticeable faster Smiley

     

    You can now buy the GT3 Mk2 Smiley No need to think about Mk1 any longer...


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    But is the mk2 significantly more powerful that the mk1?

    The few GT3 mk2 tests that got recently published hinted at higher mid range torque but not much more.

     

     


    Re: News on 997 turbo facelift

    a friend just recently attended at SPA Francorchamps race weekend and smoked with his

    Z06 pretty much everything except a Sportec 650 GT3.....various GT3 wanted a ride afterwards and were buffed afterwards of the times vs Porsche. I have to add that the breakes are not stock but new racing breaks but that are all mods. He even drove on the stock tires and not on Pirelly PZero C like the Porsches....

    As much as I love Porsches n specially the GT3's there are cars for less that are much faster than a GT3. Maybe it's because of drivers skills but having driven his Z06 I became a secret admirer of this car....it's unbelievable fast n tight around corners for less than half the price.


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part I) Thread Closed 9/24/20 12:47 AM
    watt
    578499 2849
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 12/30/20 9:03 AM
    rhino
     
     
     
     
     
    357374 1279
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/10/21 2:32 PM
    Joost
    86103 1085
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/20/21 4:07 PM
    Wonderbar
    44090 338
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    35194 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/19/20 6:12 PM
    Leawood911
    32871 380
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 4/20/21 11:02 AM
    Joost
    15331 310
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    4297 29
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 7/27/20 2:13 AM
    DJM48
    561611 5257
    Porsche Cayman GT4 4/13/21 10:04 AM
    996FourEss
    401574 3585
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 4/13/21 8:01 AM
    BjoernB
    355847 3915
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 12/27/20 4:06 PM
    Topspeed
    352732 3486
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 11/5/20 9:55 PM
    DaveGordon
    313056 3242
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
    309685 2646
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/28/21 8:05 PM
    Topspeed
    215979 1542
    Porsche Tesla Roadster 9/23/20 8:22 PM
    bluelines
    183237 4279
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    160390 1379
    Others Alfa Romeo 4C 9/23/20 10:22 AM
    RCA
    138002 792
    Porsche 992 GT3 4/21/21 7:30 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    111345 2100
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    105608 1225
    McLaren F1 2/25/21 11:33 AM
    RCA
    77107 207
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 4/16/21 10:24 AM
    rhino
    69917 1154
    AMG AMG GT R 11/19/20 11:47 PM
    Topspeed
    64620 819
    Lambo Aventador and SV 4/20/21 3:21 PM
    CGX car nut
    63569 683
    Porsche 991 Speedster 9/3/20 4:29 PM
    Topspeed
    56437 878
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    43001 596
    Others Bugatti Chiron 4/12/21 3:42 PM
    RCA
    36419 476
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    33717 615
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 3/21/21 5:01 PM
    Topspeed
    28614 385
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 4/14/21 9:06 PM
    Grant
    28225 406
    273 items found, displaying 1 to 30.