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    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Adam,

    Love your V12 mate,  just can't bring myself to spend 120 big ones on a car at the moment....  I've been like this since the start of the recession and it's doing my head in because I am such a petrolhead but I feel the outlook for the economy is gloomy for a while yet and until things are back to normal (if there is such a thing) then cash is king!

    Fair play to you, I hope you enjoy every minute of your car - I'm sure you will!


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Thank you, sounds like a great poster!

    I'm very lucky indeed, I'm 33 and have had (in reverse order) 997 2s, 996 4s, Boxsters S, Honda S2000,  2 x BMW 3 series coupe, MGF (worst car I ever owned or drove) and a 205 1.9Gti (wish I still had it for sentimental reasons, had it when I was 18 and payed 3 times more for insurance than my 997!).

    So compared to most people in life I have had some very nice cars (this isn't a boast at all, I am extremely grateful for my lot in life).  I would hate to add up the depreciation on that lot over the past 13 years, but I don't regret a single penny as I worked my ass off since leaving school to earn enough to buy all those cars and only bought them when I could afford to buy outright.  A couple of years ago I would have gone and bought any of these cars without thinking too much about it but the recession has made me very indecisive lately because of the 'fear' of how bad things could get.

    My wife works in a hospice so I have a regular dose of 'live life for the moment' but I don't like being reckless with money and now I'm married and a little older I have started thinking about saving more for later in life and the possibility of children coming along, etc.

    My wife wants a new X5 and I worked out if I bought the X5 and the GT3 (which was a possibility for a while) I would probably lose £40k in a year minimum which means I would have to earn £80k just to fund the depreciation on the cars without all the running costs.  When you put it like that as much fun as the cars are you start to think twice (unless you are exceptionally wealthy!).

    Anybody else been through a period like this (basically having a midlife crises and turning into a tight ass)?

    The joys of being a petrolhead!....


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    There's no point in throwing money away on a car if you know you are going to change it within a shortish timespan (18 - 24 months for example). Will a 991 C2S really make you feel short changed in real world driving is the question you need to ask I guess. The exterior will be a gentle evolution of the 997 so it will look more modern. The centre console will follow a Panamera style look in the same way the Cayenne has.

    Here are some shots of the interior taken from some of the prototypes on shake down testing showing the centre console and a couple of artists impressions of how the exterior may look.

    1282860715149Interior 1.JPG1282860725167Interior 2.JPG

    Photoshop front.JPGPhotoshop rear.JPG

     


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    I haven't seen those pics ISUK, thanks - looks quite nice if accurate doesn't it?  Interior looks like it could be leagues ahead of 997 (which it needs to be to compete with audi, etc).  I wonder how much bigger the car will be?

    I wouldn't feel short changed with a 991 by any means.  I think this is the best plan, deposit on 991 then get a 991 GT3 and enjoy that knowing it has a much longer life span as the current model.  If you keep the cars 3 years plus the depreciation isn't as bad, it's always the first 12 months which is the killer (unless you've got a 458 you jammy sod - bet you can drive that for at least a year and get your money back!).

     


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    I dont think a 991 GT3 will have a particularly greater lifespan.  Realistically by the time 991.1 GT3 hits production the 991.2 will be only 12-18mths or so down the line.  GT3 is always so late in the 3yr lifespan that the facelift / new model is always looming.  That said 991.2 might not feel as much of a big deal as the change from 997.2 to 991.1 will...


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Adam,

    I know what you mean but like you said unless there is a big change the .2 cars are normally a much smaller facelift of the .1 cars so if you bought a 991.1 GT3 you could probably keep it for 3 or 4 years before the next all new car came around.  I think I'm over analysing this, I reckon all cars >£50k will lose around £15k per year in the first year and around £10k in the second!


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    How good does your 458 look in your profile pic!!!!!!!

    How do you rate PDK?


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Wolvy:

    Adam,

    I know what you mean but like you said unless there is a big change the .2 cars are normally a much smaller facelift of the .1 cars so if you bought a 991.1 GT3 you could probably keep it for 3 or 4 years before the next all new car came around.  I think I'm over analysing this, I reckon all cars >£50k will lose around £15k per year in the first year and around £10k in the second!


    You will probably loose even more when it comes to almost all cars at the £100k mark being realistic about things.  Its always more than you think it is - I'd estimate a GT3 bought now for full RRP will loose £20k maybe even £25k in the first year - assuming we are talking about trade value here...  I'm not knocking the GT3 by the way, I actually think its better than many cars at this level. I got a huge discount off list price on the V12Vantage, but regardless Ive set my mind that it will very probably loose a further £20k-25k in yr1... 

    Look at it this way - as your first post stated dealers are currently selling a lightly used 997.2 GT3 for £8k below RRP.  It is a hard fact that at this price level car dealers mark up your car by £10k over the value they gave you as trade in / cash. Most will deny it if challenged but then watch them put it up at that price once you've traded it in.  (Im not knocking them as it is their business to make money, but big price cars are big risks for them and can be slow sellers so they need to make big mark ups.) Anyway, that means these lightly used GT3's you mention have lost £18k... Next year they will loose even more as Im sure you know. I reckon £20k loss is a realistic min matey...

    My motto when it comes getting a value on my car that Im selling is "think of a figure that seems worst case scenareo, round down and then prepare to be dissapointed"!  Works everytime!  Smiley

    Boy's toys aint cheap I'm afraid, but they are a LOT of fun and if you are a true petrolhead, as Im sure you and I both are, then these things have to be done!

    Just take the medicine and have fun!


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Pentium:

    Best GT3RS I ever saw Smiley

    +1.

    Stealthy with no stickers on it. Very nice!


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Wolvy:

    Anybody else been through a period like this (basically having a midlife crises and turning into a tight ass)?


    Luckily not... and I doubt you are having a midlife crisis at that age already. Smiley

    I´d say your experiences are reflected by quite a few here on the forum. If money is an issue I would happily focus on a lightly used 997.1 C2S or GT3.


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Assuming 991 comes in the spring/ early summer and given the production numbers, targets Porsche want to hit in the future. I would say buying a first off the line 991 with a view to swapping it to a 991 GT3 in 18 - 24 months will result in more or less the same percentage depreciation hit as getting a 997.2 GT3 in the spring of next year and then swapping to a 991 GT3 in 18 - 24 months. However if you track the value of the 997.2 GT3 against a 991 C2S over a 6 year window the GT3 will be the better car. (Just look at 996.2 GT3 prices against early 997 C2S)

    The fact of the matter is Carreras are built in much larger numbers than GT cars. There might be an initial 2 month window where you might be able to buy a 991 Carrera and flip it for a small profit, or get your money back, but given the nature of the current market, type of car model (Carrera), i doubt it very much.

    I lost about £25k on my Gen 2 Carrera S in about 18 months of ownership through buying one of the first Gen 2 cars off the line then changing for the GT3. In hind sight i wish i bought an older gen 1 997 as a bridging car whilst sitting back for my GT3. I have a LOI in with my dealer for a 991 RS, but the simple fact is i love the GT3 so much it will take a lot of effort to get me out of it into the new car, and things like DFI, PDK in the 991 GT3 will probably put me off ! 


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    The Gen2 car was launched at the absolute worst point in the economic downturn so it's not the best yardstick. The midlife facelift of an existing model also doesn't generate as much interest in the used market to command strong premiums when compared to a brand new model which the 991 will be. As the economy is still not brilliant the new car won't command premiums for long unless supply is seriously restricted and Porsche GB seem to have turned the taps down on this from what I can gather. I think it should be ok for the first 12 months in terms of modest depreciation.

    The DCT box in the 458 is superb Wolvy.


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Wolvy:

    Anybody else been through a period like this (basically having a midlife crises and turning into a tight ass)?

     

    hhhhmmm, not sure how tight...Smiley Actually I had a serious attack of new car fever earlier this season (thinking about the new RS), but luckily I overcame it saying to myself that I'm not worth an upgrade as long as I can't get close to 7:50 with my 997.1 GT3 (which could mean that the car will be a keeper forever SmileySmiley). Granted, my GT3 is basically (ab)used as a "tracktoy only", hence the latest design clues from the newer version are not important to me and I would hate to watch the inevitable "signs of battle" on a brandnew RS Smiley

    Conclusion for me: as a tracktoy a brandnew car provides only one (admittedly significant) advantage - all parts are new and haven't yet endured any track stress (and yes, I have witnessed friends loosing their GT Porsches on the track due to mechanical failures Smiley..though fortunately this is a very rare sight).

    Of course this may be a completely irrelevant thought if you use your car mainly for road duty - in this case the most important thing is to simply follow your heart Smiley IMHO there is no point in saving some money getting the older version and then having bad feelings every time you watch the newer one on the road. In this case I'd wait until the bank account allows to go for the newer one. Luckily I'm not suffering from this syndrome as I still love the 997.1 GT3 as it is and when I can keep up with its newer siblings on the 'Ring it gives me an extra smile Smiley

    And don't forget that depreciation is only one part of the TCO equation. Running costs for my GT3 so far have accounted for 2.5 - 3.0 x depreciation (granted our dear RT fellow fritz accused me of enjoying the car to an extent which he described as "obscene" Smiley).

    If I'd been in your shoes I wouldn't wait for the launch of the 991 GT3 - it would mean the "loss" of at least 2 seasons (too much...). Get a nice used one (either 997.1 or 997.2) and have fun. And fun you will have - that I can promise Smiley

    @ JAMS SmileySmileySmiley many many congrats - this baby looks so hot that I only can think of one place where it belongs.....with all the hotness it must have to do with a hell Smiley

     

     


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

     ^ My inspiration:41aj2JMK2WL._SS500_.jpg


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Hahaha, could be the right Gridgirl for your red beast in the Green Hell Smiley


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

     For my British friends!  

    IMG_UK.jpg

     


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    JAMS:

     For my British friends!  

    IMG_UK.jpg

    128296534219441aj2JMK2WL._SS500_.jpg

    1282965196249Brit_Slut.jpg

    Smiley

     


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Lovely young lady, I mean RS.

    There is always something better round the corner.  For me and this is personal, it's about missed opportunity.

    I sold my my 997.1 in April this year.  It had had the obvious depreciation from, 1, the recession and 2. the introduction of the 997.2.  However, depreciation was only an issue if I had decided to get rid of the car within the first 2 or 3 years.  Having kept the car for 4 years, and putting double the mileage, of most similarly aged cars I still only lost about £3,000 on the sales value due to this.  The car still achieved the value I anticipated after 4 years!

    So, if you going to keep the car for a year then you'll always feel the depreciation far more than you would if you were keeping it for 4 years what ever "new" car you bought and it'll be the same for the 991.

    If you just want the latest and sure to be greatest, in terms of on road performance, it's only going to be slightly better and that's if your on the track.  Does it really make that much difference in reality.  For me, get the 997.2 (at a good price) and exchange it for the 991 if you feel that way when it does eventually arrive.


    --

    http://www.phrog.co.uk


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Well I've only gone and done it! Guards red club sport Gt3 being built in October hopefully for delivery end October or early November. I figured there is always something new out and after a drive in a 997gt3.1 I was smitten so hopefully the gen 2 is even better! I'm sure it will be great fun and I'll have at least a couple of years before the 991 gt3 is out and with that car getting bigger and more electronics perhaps this will the last of the real drivers cars... I'm sure the 991 will be amazing but I have a feeling the base models are getting more and more luxury rather than sports car. I was amazed at the difference in feel between a normal carrera and the gt3 and I also had a go in a turbo and that was very fast but a bit boring I felt (no offence to owners they are just different cars and on an autobahn they would be unbeatable but I want some fun at 50mph in the twists!) At the end of the day it's money and you can't take it with you so I'm trying to enjoy life while young!

    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Wolvy:
    At the end of the day it's money and you can't take it with you so I'm trying to enjoy life while young!


    Good decision. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Congratulations! ...hope we did not put undue pressure on you but I doubt that you will have any regrets. All the best.

    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Congrats mate... glad you plucked up the courage to spooge the wonga as I did in the end. As you say, you cant take it with ya, and I sure as hell aint leaving it to anybody else or the goverment!

    Have fun...  Roll on November and the GT3 pics!


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Congrats.  Right choice IMO.  Looking forward to it already.


    --

    http://www.phrog.co.uk


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Congrats, great car!


    --

    997 GT3 RS


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Wolvy:
    Well I've only gone and done it! Guards red club sport Gt3 being built in October hopefully for delivery end October or early November. I figured there is always something new out and after a drive in a 997gt3.1 I was smitten so hopefully the gen 2 is even better! I'm sure it will be great fun and I'll have at least a couple of years before the 991 gt3 is out and with that car getting bigger and more electronics perhaps this will the last of the real drivers cars... I'm sure the 991 will be amazing but I have a feeling the base models are getting more and more luxury rather than sports car. I was amazed at the difference in feel between a normal carrera and the gt3 and I also had a go in a turbo and that was very fast but a bit boring I felt (no offence to owners they are just different cars and on an autobahn they would be unbeatable but I want some fun at 50mph in the twists!) At the end of the day it's money and you can't take it with you so I'm trying to enjoy life while young!

     

    Well done mate !! You will love it...  I would have gone for white though (They are faster !!).

    You should get your half day depositors test drive invite soon at Silverstone so you will get a feel for the car there.....

    What spec did you go for ?

    Out of interest i got some track day insurance quotes for mine at single day events at the Ring and SPA. They were as follows:--- 10% excess , the ring was £1561 for the day Smiley.. Spa was slightly cheaper at £1250....... Needless to say i will not be doing these circuits. One of those is almost twice my annual insurance premium (which includes 2 UK trackdays)...

     


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Cheers Chris and Adam, and thanks for your help via pm. I've gone for guards red clubsport, folding buckets, front lift, dynamic mounts, red belts, nav + phone, plus a few other bits I can't remember now. I'll post up full spec soon. Chris who is your insurance with and do you mind posting how much you pay? I've not done track days before, well not in my own car and am a little nervous about whether I would be comfortable tracking such an expensive car! Do Porsche organize any quieter days for beginners? Chris - I think I read you had your car paint shielded? Who did it and how much should I expect to pay? On my old carrera the worst place was the rear arches. I understand the modern paint is a lot softer. My old car was a 2004 997 and I think it had the last of the 'hard' paint, it only had one tiny chip on the bonnet after 4 years but the inside of rear arches was quite pebble dashed.

    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Congratulations, I do believe that you did the right thing. You can either, if money allows, change the car for the 991.1 or 991.2 GT3 if you find one of them appealing but otherwise keep the car for a little longer. Highly regarded Porsche models almost always have held their value quite successfully and the GT3 is surely one of them.


    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Heres the spec I went with in detail: Guards red clubsport xsx guards red seat belts 666 telephone module 870 universal audio interface 810 floor mats 140 dynamic engine mounts 474 lifting system front axle P03 sports bucket seats 490 sound package plus P23 PCM with. Navigation Gone for the racy look! Have I missed anything important, let me know quick if I have!

    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Sorry iPad didn't format that very well!

    Re: GT3 Gen 2 - Depreciation

    Wolvy:
    Cheers Chris and Adam, and thanks for your help via pm. I've gone for guards red clubsport, folding buckets, front lift, dynamic mounts, red belts, nav + phone, plus a few other bits I can't remember now. I'll post up full spec soon. Chris who is your insurance with and do you mind posting how much you pay? I've not done track days before, well not in my own car and am a little nervous about whether I would be comfortable tracking such an expensive car! Do Porsche organize any quieter days for beginners? Chris - I think I read you had your car paint shielded? Who did it and how much should I expect to pay? On my old carrera the worst place was the rear arches. I understand the modern paint is a lot softer. My old car was a 2004 997 and I think it had the last of the 'hard' paint, it only had one tiny chip on the bonnet after 4 years but the inside of rear arches was quite pebble dashed.

     

    Ok here you go:-

    Insurance is through Porsche Insurance Services  (Administered by Marsh) Tel:- 01462 445700. I pay about £920 a year including 2 track days in UK and Porsche Driving School events. Another big advantage is the windscreen replacement is with Porsche (Not the usual bodgers you see advertised... )

    Paint Protection is with a company called Paintshield (http://www.paintshield.co.uk/). Check website and give Tom a call. I paid about £1400 for full front cover (up to 'A' pillars) and sills + back front end of wheel arches. The sills on GT cars do not get the same level of paint protection as Carreras so worth protecting. The big selling point with Toms film is the fact that he does NOT cut any film on the cars.

    Porsche Club UK seem to offer very good track days with a lower turn out and as everyone is in Porsche there is more respect for each others cars (They are running one at Castle Combe next Thursday, and as it is a 105db noise limit day only 5 cars on the track at once). I have done a few of the Porsche Sport Driving School courses both in the UK SIlverstone, and Leipzig, these often have a free track session at the end of the course which is well policed. The big problem i have now is i will have to pick my track days wisely as i only get two included in my insurance policy until next June... Also as my tyres are cups i have to watch the weather forecasts !!! 

    I have done about 2500 miles in my car now and my rear tyres are at about 3mm of tread. (They start at about 4.5mm). I guess i will get about 4500 miles in total from pure road use with them. When i took my car to the OPC yesterday for a oil change ( I always get the oil changed on my cars after run-in period) they quoted me £440 for rears and £330 for front (MSPC Tyres)

     


     
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