Crown

Board: Motor Sports Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    Just over a week to go till the next F1 race weekend.

    It really looks like Vettel and RBR have all the momentum right now for the Drivers' Title and that RBR has a car that is now so strong that they will win the Constructors' Title comfortably as well.

    I don't think Alonso can win the title anymore. I know he will not give up till the end but I suspect that even he is inwardly resigned to the possibility that the championship is about to slip away through his fingers.

    Massa renewed at Ferrari ... if the plan is to bring in Vettel in 2014, then Massa can act as a 1 year space filler.


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    The circuit layout looks interesting, but we'll see come FP1 whether or not it'll be exciting.  Thankfully, since it's a new circuit, the teams will be going out a lot during the FPs to get as much data as possible.

     

    I agree, Vettel and Red Bull have all of the momentum in their hands.  They won't be touched for the WCC, but it really does look like the WDC is slowly slipping from Alonso.  I don't mind Vettel and Red Bull, but I want Alonso to win it because he's been working his ass off as the underdog.  I really, really want to see how Vettel would do without the best equipment.  He's had the best car for the past three years now.  Eventually, I would think that the FIA are going to have to change the rules to slow them down, much like they did after the 2004 season to slow down Ferrari.  Although, in retrospect, Ferrari was much more dominant back then compared to RBR now.

     

    I really wonder why Ferrari decided to sign Massa for one more year.  Yes, his performance lately has been much, much better than it has been since he was in his accident, but, since the WCC is supposed to be more important to the team, why not hire two good drivers?


    --


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    Well, I'm an idiot, haha. Apparently I completely missed the fact that there was an Indian Grand Prix last year.
    --


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    RBR 1 & 2 on qualy again... nobody else stands a chance no matter the pilot so another predicttable boring race tomorrow  Smiley


    --


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    There are two RBR on the front row, but with two McLaren's and two Ferrari's on their tails; I expect a pretty interesting race!   blush


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    Problem is, it will be a race between the cars and not drivers, the only real racing we will see will be between teammates cause everything else is decided by the car each driver has since the diffrenet team car's performance gaps are bigger than the driver factor, especially with the RBR's, Seems like we have gone back to the way is was last season surprise


    --


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    Carlos from Spain:

    Problem is, it will be a race between the cars and not drivers, the only real racing we will see will be between teammates cause everything else is decided by the car each driver has since the diffrenet team car's performance gaps are bigger than the driver factor, especially with the RBR's, Seems like we have gone back to the way is was last season surprise

    Formula 1 has been like this since the beginning. It's almost always about the car. Problem is nowadays that the engine plays a small part and it's all about the aero. Hopefully this will change with the 2014 regs but unfortunately the dreadful turbos come with them also. Smiley


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    Motorsport is man and machine together, so the speed and reliability of the car have always been crucial. Why the surprise (and complaint now), because Alonso might not win the title as expected 4 races ago? Actually, if you look at F1 history most titles have been won by the superior car.

    Anyway, for me the title is not a foregone conclusion. RBR are faster but less reliable than Ferrari. Also, if the last 3 races are straightforward, Vettel will most probably finish in front of Alonso. However, if there are other variables like wet weather, accidents, safety cars etc. , Alonso is very well able to take advantage of those.

    BTW, I didn't like Alonso's statement that he is "fighting against Newey", impliedly negating or at least belittling  the Vettel factor. Very bad sportmanship on Alonso's behalf IMO. Newey is a genius but Vettel is definitely not just a lucky winner. Don't forget that Ferrari are after his services for 2014.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    I would prefer F1 to use a system similar to NASCAR - standard bodies (to neutralize aeros), but with much more liberal mechanical allowances. After all, aeros don't matter or interest fans while engine/engineering innovations do - and also benefit us in the long term. I find current rules simply madness! 


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    What I'm complaining about is when the differences between the cars are so great that the driver's influence on the results is completely negated.

    Alonso drove the wheels of the Ferrari today, could only qualify 5th with his car, took the two McLarens on the track, pushed and pushed 110% and then even Webber on the RBR, and never gave up...yet who is widely regarded as the best formula one driver on the grid by far right now still had no chance at victory today again, save for a freak incident to happen, which is not consolation. 

    I myslef would like to see some back and forth differences between team's cars of course, the  ars must also play some trole, but it should be shared with that of the driver, and seet much more eveness than what whe are seeing now since since 4 GP and probably the rest of the season. Today again we saw a car cruise though the weekend practices like it doesn't even need them and still make the fastetst times, take qualy 1&2 without wasting tires for the race, and see the car cross the checkered flag while playing with the following car's gap.

    As to Alonso's comment on Newey, its simply the truth thats on everybody's mind. Vettel is one of the fastest drivers on the grid, in the top 5. But ask yourself this question, what do you think the result of the race would have been today if there was no RBR's on the grid and Webber and Vettel would have had to race with McLaren or Ferrari? 

    Anyway, maybe we get some rain or something next GP to even things out more and also mixe things up a bit more...


    --


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    I reckon that you being Spanish, are being a bit too partizan about this. F1 was always about the car. From the Alfas in the early '50s, to Maseratis in the mid '50s, to the Ferraris in the late '50s / early '60s, to the Vanwalls, Brabhams and Lotuses of the mid-late '60s, the Ferraris of the early-late '70s, to the McLarens and the Ferraris of the early-mid '80s, to the McLarens of the late '80s, to the Williamses of the early-mid '90s, to the McLarens of the late '90s, to the Ferraris of the early-mid '00s. Usually the best car wins. The driver is just an employee driving it.


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    REALZEUS:

    I reckon that you being Spanish, are being a bit too partizan about this. F1 was always about the car. From the Alfas in the early '50s, to Maseratis in the mid '50s, to the Ferraris in the late '50s / early '60s, to the Vanwalls, Brabhams and Lotuses of the mid-late '60s, the Ferraris of the early-late '70s, to the McLarens and the Ferraris of the early-mid '80s, to the McLarens of the late '80s, to the Williamses of the early-mid '90s, to the McLarens of the late '90s, to the Ferraris of the early-mid '00s. Usually the best car wins. The driver is just an employee driving it.

    If it were that simple, the teams wouldn't be prepared to pay some drivers so much more than others can command. 
    The best cars generally get to be that way because there is a good driver interpreting the car's driving characteristics for the engineers. On the odd occasion when an F1 driver rises to the top who is not "technically" good, then he generally has a good Number 2 driver in his team compensating for his failings by working with the team on optimising the car.  


    --

    fritz


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    They are still employees. Good employees, but employees. I would rather have Adrian Newey than Alonso or Raikkonen though; he is an even better emolployee! 


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    REALZEUS:

    They are still employees. Good employees, but employees. I would rather have Adrian Newey than Alonso or Raikkonen though; he is an even better emolployee! 

    They are all employees, even Montezemolo)))


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    I guess Newey is an exceptional employee , his designs together with Rory Byrne`s  have dominated more or less the last 20 years of F1 . The combination of a very talented driver (Vettel) and a stellar designer (Newey) are a tough call for Alonso.  He can challenge with his skills the first but not the second; this I believe was the sense of his statement, he was just brutally honest. Btw great drive today. 


    --

    911 Club Coupe, 72' 911 Targa 2.4 S, 12' Audi S4 Avant


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    I hate the fact that it's +80% car and 20% driver..... - I would agree with Carlos that if Alonso would drive a RB as well he would outshine Vettel by a huge margin. In a Sport where you drop out at 107% - timewise - I strongly believe most drivers could be fast in a RB - but they have disadvantages in theirs and try to compensate with their "driving behavior" which works for some (Raikkonen) and doesn't work for others (Grosjean) just to name two. For me in Saison 2012 the star is definately Raikkonen - first season and No 3 now in the ranking wtih only 1 times NOT in the points - unbelievable good !!!


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    @BjoernB +1

    FA does exceptionell well that season again, he's really a great driver!

    SV outshines MW almost in every race and under any circumstances since RBR found back in their path of success...

    BTW I would like to know how LH feels when he's looking at the "achievements" of his soon-to-be-team Mercedes GP F1 since he signed for them!?

    Money can't buy happyness and satisfaction... :-P


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    If someone wants to follow sporting events where the "man" is predominant as opposed to the equipment, then motorsport should not be his favourite. This person should follow cycling or skiing or even athletic events where the only piece of equipment is the shoes.

    By definition in motorsport the engineer is very important and the advanced tech is an attraction for many fans even more so than the drivers. Technical progress is more important than driving skills for me, for example as an avid motorsport follower.

    Of course for those who like equal equipment they can follow the one-make races like the Carrera Cup or the Clio Cup.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    Vettel drove perfectly all weekend in a car that is utterly dominant. Alonso, Hamilton et al must feel pretty powerless to do anything about Vettel winning his 3rd consecutive F1 World Championship.

    As a fan, the season has lost interest for me ... I loved it when it was so close that there was a different winner in the first 7 races. The tyres and driving ability made the small difference to ensure the results were unpredictable. We didn't even need the rain to mix things up.

    But, now, the RBR car is so much better than every other car that the difference that these other factors can make is just not enough to affect the car's domination.

    I simply take my hat off to Adrian Newey. He is a genius.


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    easy_rider911:


    I simply take my hat off to Adrian Newey. He is a genius.

    I actually feel that Adrian Newey is wasted in F1. He  could be doing more worthwhile things with his exceptional engineering/aerodynamics brain. But I guess he is petrolhead, judging by his personal racing too.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    Lauda made a good comment is saying - RBR is a one man show (Newey) and the moment Adrian would leave the team it mostsurely will drop hard - whereas he sees in other team a more balanced team of engineers achieving a result - altough lower - the impact of people leaving would be much smaller.  

    He's truly the mastermind behind RB - as much as Brawn was the foundation for MS successes. (and Button) - and no way the driver. I am always amused people praising Vettel (or Vinger as I call him) how "perfect" his race was - but  when Vettel was further behind in the grid where was the magic a la Alonso overtaking both Mc's in one shoot ?


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    Brawn although an engineer too, was very successful at Ferrari and for a year at his own team as the Team manager, strategist, organizer. Newey is a top engineering brain with a series of absolute winners at Williams, McLaren and RBR.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    BjoernB:............ was the magic a la Alonso overtaking both Mc's in one shoot ?

     

    Could be one of the best race actions in 2012:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH4KvfZfBDM

    Blueflame Smiley


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    Wow, you guys seem dismiss Vettel of being a fine driver. With the good tools comes more pressure on SV, IMO he is a very good racing driver. How many times has he come out to do one serious flying lap in Q3 and then still be P1, on quite a few occasions I would say, that should be enough to prove his outstanding driving ability.


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi


    --


    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    BjoernB:

    much as Brawn was the foundation for MS successes

    Make that Byrne and Martinelli. Brawn hasn't designed anything since his Williams days.


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: 2012 Indian F1 Grand Prix in New Delhi

    I was talking more on the strategy side - Brawn was working miracles at Ferrari for MS.......- when I was in Monza with Lotus we got explained how a computer model is constantly looking for best strategy - based on lap-times, tire, possible flags etc etc - it became all very "computerized" and I believe some years ago few people had the brain to switch strategies based on race-facts - Brawn was def. one of them


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 4/11/24 6:53 AM
    GnilM
    742015 1796
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    427277 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM
    257979 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48
    253040 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA
    76942 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut
    5087 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    866329 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant
    796756 3868
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry
    383189 1526
    Porsche GT4RS 4/11/24 6:50 AM
    GnilM
    379028 1442
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut
    363525 2401
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker
    363476 797
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 4/21/23 8:09 AM
    the-missile
    283931 550
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 4/11/24 12:32 PM
    Ferdie
    282459 668
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    256215 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug
    233513 346
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel
    218661 488
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel
    218071 101
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug
    163839 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut
    135775 144
    Ferrari [2022] Ferrari Purosangue (SUV) 4/15/23 5:20 AM
    watt
    129245 141
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA
    113167 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM
    106242 685
    Others Valkyrie final design? 4/28/23 2:45 AM
    Rossi
    98815 219
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    82935 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame
    74720 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    52694 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 3/16/24 9:27 PM
    WhoopsyM
    24242 237
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy
    20622 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie
    18851 140
    129 items found, displaying 1 to 30.