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    Next generation Ferrari

    Hi guys,

    I would like to start a new thread.

    On the Ferrari Owners Page there was a query from the administrator, how the readers would like a new Ferrari to be.
    I think that is a very good thing by Ferrari to ask their customers about their opinion regarding the development of a new car. And as RC said, that rennteam.com is read by the car companies, I thought it would be interesting to see, what other sportscar enthusiasts, who are not necessarily Ferrari customers, think about it. Perhaps it would also be interesting to put the same question in the Porsch forum.

    So how do you want the next Ferrari, no matter if F360 or F575 or anything, to be?

    I start with my imagination of the next generation F360 Modena:

    Chassis & Exterior:
    - all alloy chassis like current Modena
    - further weight reduction to approximately 1300 to 1350 kg (fully tanked) if possible without too many sacrifices regarding comfort
    - no increase in dimension, not wider and definetively not longer, perhaps a shorter car (4.3 m as the Gallardo) would be better
    - 18 inch rims with about the same tire dimensions (IMO no need for 19 inch wheels)
    - bigger drilled steel brakes, ceramic brakes for those who think they need them as an option for not more than 7500 Euro
    - F1 tranny as standard or as an option for not more than 5000 Euro; it's time to reduce the price for Ferrari's future gear change as it becomes so popular, even more as there are similar (BMW) or same (Alfa) systems for far less money
    - further development of the current Modena design:
    - new front in style of the Challenge Stradale, which make the two air inlets look better, perhaps size reduction of the air inlets, more aggressive looks from the front
    - at the rear flat engine cover with or without glass window like the Spider, giving low and more aggressive looks from behind
    - or totally new Pininfarina design (well, not sure about that)

    Interior:
    - all new interior compared to current Modena
    - new dials and center console
    - use of less alloy but more leather like in older Ferrari e.g. F355
    - high class sound system
    - seat heating as standard for extense winter driving (well, not really a must)
    - further improvement in built quality

    Engine:
    - new V8 currently used in the Maserati models, but with new Ferrari crankshaft and capacity risen to about 4.5 litres or more (not necessarily 5 valve head)
    - torque 480 Nm or more
    - power 500 hp or more (should be possible with the given 111 hp/kg (Modena) or 118 hp/kg (Challenge Stradale))
    - 0 - 100 km/h 4.2 sec (or less )
    - 0 - 200 km/h 14 sec (or less )
    - top speed: 310 km/h (or more )
    - reduced maintenace costs than current V8 (should be possible with new generation V8)

    What else:
    - base price about 135.000 Euro
    - no waiting list of two years or more, possible without increasing the built number by changing the V12 - V8 ratio in favour of the V8 models

    Well, that's all for the moment, perhaps I will add some more details later on.

    Regards
    sr

    Re: Next generation Ferrari

    You forgot to ask for a Ferrari Chick with the car


    Re: Next generation Ferrari

    Yep, you're right, but please not this one...

    sr

    Re: Next generation Ferrari

    I really don't want to see Ferrari increase the displacement in their engines for their V-8 cars much more. While it is true that Ferrari is about power, it is also about how that power is created. Ever since the 308, displacement has steadly increased. After the 3 liter engine of the 308, the 3.2 of the 328 was introduced. Then came the 3.4 in the 348, the 3.5 in the 355 and the 3.6 in the current 360 Modena. I completely understand why Ferrari is increasing the displacement of their engines ("theres no replacement for displacement") but I worry that one day the we will see six and seven liter engines in Ferrari's "small" cars, 4.2 is allready too much. It is getting to the point where i can forsee Ferraris turning into "Italian Vipers"

    Re: Next generation Ferrari

    I agree. I worry about the same thing with the 911. I think 3.6 liters is fine for the GT3. Just make it weigh less. Maybe someday increase it to 3.8 (there have already been 3.8 liter RSRs). If 5 years from now the GT3 has 3.8 liters of motor, 450 hp and weighs 2500 pounds, it would be a fine car indeed, with no need for a larger motor.

    I like it when they stick with the racing classes. It's very nice to have a car offered that could compete in GT (4 liters or less) for maybe 100k for the Porsche version (GT3) and 160k for the Ferrari (360). Then they could offer GTS level cars like the GT2 (although not raced ) for 200k. Maybe it's simply not practical for Ferrari to offer a lower GT class sports car at the same time as something with a larger motor.

    The point of this confused post: don't keep increasing motor sizes until a GT car turns into a GTS car (sports car racing categories), just make both a GT car and GTS car at different price levels. This is like when Toyota corollas become the size of the old Camry and Camrys grow to the size of barns. Then companies think they need a new compact car because they grew their old one into a different class.

    Re: Next generation Ferrari

    I completely aggree with you about how car companies should have "GT" and "GTS" class cars. That is exactly what ferrari used to do. When they had the F355, they had the larger, more poweful F550. Before that, the 348's bigger brother was the Testarossa, and later the F512M. Smal engines but big power is what seperates the Itallian/German exotics and the American Muscle cars. Exotic ar manufactures need to find new ways to gain power from their engines, of course the major question, is how.

    Re: Next generation Ferrari

    They will always be able to get more power out of the same displacement, given enough time to develop the technology. Variable valve timing is an example of this. I don't even think it should be the focus in new models, although it's very nice to have a little more grunt. I don't mind 100 hp per liter going to only 105 per liter in a model change (400 to 420 hp for 4 liters) if it is accompanied by less weight and suspension upgrades. In a GT class car, you don't need much more than 450 hp if you have the handling and light weight. Imagine how quick the GT3 would be if it weighed 2500 pounds. 11 second quarter miles anyone? If you want more power go to GTS.

    Re: Next generation Ferrari

    Quote:
    I really don't want to see Ferrari increase the displacement in their engines for their V-8 cars much more. While it is true that Ferrari is about power, it is also about how that power is created. Ever since the 308, displacement has steadly increased. After the 3 liter engine of the 308, the 3.2 of the 328 was introduced. Then came the 3.4 in the 348, the 3.5 in the 355 and the 3.6 in the current 360 Modena. I completely understand why Ferrari is increasing the displacement of their engines ("theres no replacement for displacement") but I worry that one day the we will see six and seven liter engines in Ferrari's "small" cars, 4.2 is allready too much. It is getting to the point where i can forsee Ferraris turning into "Italian Vipers"



    I share your opinion, that Ferrari shouldn't increase the displacement of their engines too much.
    Problem is however, how they otherwise want to react to the current power explosion, if they don't want to use turbos or superchargers. The next generation Maranello will have close to 600 hp, perhaps it will even top that level. So, given the power to displacement ratio of the Ferrari V12 of 90 hp per litre, that would mean fairly more than 6 litres in the Ferrari top model.
    Same problem with the entry level Ferrari: how do you want to react to 500 hp in a Gallardo (5 litres), 483 hp in Porsche GT2 (turbo) or 500 hp in a SL 55 (supercharger)? With 110 hp/l that would be at least 4.5 litres, if the V10 rumour is true, displacement surely won't be much below that figure.
    First tests of the Challenge Stradale show, that first the saving weight theory doesn't work as Ferrari promised (1386 kg versus the official 1290 kg) and second that especially the acceleration numbers at higher speeds don't seem to fulfill the factory figures (0-200 km/h in 15.5 sec instead of 13.9 sec). Torque, what means displacement or turbo/supercharging seems to be very important here.
    Finally, saving weight by stripping out the interior might be interesting for the hardcore fans but surely isn't everyone's imagination of how a modern sportscar should be.

    regards
    sr

     
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