Crown

Board: BMW M Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: BMW i8

    sfo:

    i8 is a fad, a novelty, it will pass, and depreciation will be absolutely horrendous

    The car maybe, but the technology is here to stay.


    Re: BMW i8

    Hybrid technology is flawed at the core. Once batteries get more capacity, hybrids will be obsolete.


    Re: BMW i8

    How much scope there is, for significantly smaller/lighter batteries of more capacity, I wonder 

    Anyone has studied the subject?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: BMW i8

    SciFrog:

    Hybrid technology is flawed at the core. Once batteries get more capacity, hybrids will be obsolete.

    That's like saying the ICE is flawed at the core because 150 years later batteries would have enough capacity to make them obsolete. Or that the modern computer is flawed because in 50 years quantum computers will be improved.

    Hybrids are not flawed, they are just the stepping stone to something else. You can't just jump directly to purely electric cars even if battery capacity was good because there is still no infrastructure and it could take a very long time for that to develop

    Also, It's not like the technology isn't applicable to purely EV cars. All the same research in a hybrid gets used in a purely electric car. It's not like the electric part of the hybrid is so different. In fact, I'd argue there is just as much, if not more to gain from hybrid R&D than purely electric R&D. There is still a lot to learn and a lot of life left in ICEs and hybrid systems.


    Re: BMW i8

    Look at the past improvements. Tesla makes a car with 300 miles range today, with 3-5 year old technology... 5 years ago people were saying it was not possible. Once they manage to double the capacity per weight unit for a reasonable price, it's game over for hybrids.


    Re: BMW i8

    reginos:

    How much scope there is, for significantly smaller/lighter batteries of more capacity, I wonder 

    Anyone has studied the subject?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    It could be 10-20 years before batteries see significant improvement unless there is a major breakthrough. If you look at computers, the massive gains in battery life have come mainly from improvements in efficiency in the components that use energy rather than the batteries themselves.

    And even today, batteries aren't cheap. Going to be a while.


    Re: BMW i8

    SciFrog:

    Look at the past improvements. Tesla makes a car with 300 miles range today, with 3-5 year old technology... 5 years ago people were saying it was not possible. Once they manage to double the capacity per weight unit for a reasonable price, it's game over for hybrids.

    Once could be a decade from now, at least.

    The technology isn't cheap now and probably won't be for a while. The average selling price of a car in the US is about $30K, or 23K Euro. Even the rumor 2017 Model III will probably start at $35K, before options. And that $30K is the average, meaning there are probably millions of cars that cost $20K or less.

    So what do you do for the $20K cars? Make them purely electric with terrible range to keep cost down? No, you either make them ICE or hybrid.


    Re: BMW i8

    For cheaper cars, maybe. Still you have to factor cost of an ICE plus the electric part, very expensive for cheap cars. There is a lot of money poured in battery technology today, it will yield results at some point.

    Also you need to factor in fuel, reduced yearly maintenance and maybe higher residuals in calculating cost of ownership when comparing $20k hybrid vs $30k electric cars. Numbers can work in favor of pure electric.


    Re: BMW i8

    Technology is one piece, but emotions and buyer psychology are another - Rossi in his short review above noted his surprise at how good the little 3-cyl sounded; I think this is on purpose by BMW, as having a (small) gasoline piece in its drivetrain, ie. hybrid tech, allows the buyer to still connect with his or her memories of what sporty cars are supposed to feel like and sound like.  In this way it allows the i8 to be a transition to pure electric emotionally, while also relieving the range anxiety issues of pure electric for many buyers.    


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: BMW i8

    Today's Hybrid and All Electric vehicles are more likely ephemeral technologies that will be abandoned in favor of Hydrogen powered vehicles -- these may come in the form of Hydrogen powered internal combustion engines, electric vehicles powered by fuel cells (possibly with batteries to store excess power generated, or to recover power from braking as today's hybrids do, minimizing Hydrogen use, so today's hybrid technology may not fade entirely away) or ICE/fuel cell hybrids (think of a 918 where the ICE burns Hydrogen instead of petrol).

    The problem with all electric vehicles is always going to be the recharging/replacement of batteries. It's slow to recharge, and I doubt that the Tesla system of on-the-road "replacement stations" will prove to be practical. Hybrids, of course, since they are still directly burning fossil fuels are obviously not the long term solution. Both of these should be viewed as transitional technologies.

    The infrastructure required for Hydrogen distribution is similar in nature to petrol, and, it's even possible that Hydrogen could be generated on site at "filling stations". Obviously, though, this awaits a future where the energy required to produce the Hydrogen does not come from fossil fuels, otherwise, the effect on fossil fuel consumption will likely be net positive. But, that issue isn't any better for electric powered vehicles.


    Re: BMW i8

    Having just passed 440,000 miles (or 708,000 km) on one of my cars; I see a big split coming up between hybrid and battery only cars. They will both get their share of the market. The ICE only powered cars are the ones with a challenge to meet!


    Re: BMW i8

    I disagree. ICE engines are becoming more and more efficient and much cheaper than a hybrid system. In the low end of the market, they will prevail until all electric is cheap enough.


    Re: BMW i8

    I would almost like to say that I somewhat disagree, but all electric will never be cheap enough for those who cover over 10,000 miles per month! Hybrid should become more feasible, but ICE only gives one a cheaper car which never needs any battery replacement (except one). There is a market beyond the "average" consumer for cars used to cover more than just a commute to work. It is a much larger market than most people can imagine!!

    I think you are focusing on the average consumer with average needs, and need to know how many people there are with extrodinary needs. Which when taken as a whole, when these many individuals are factored in proves that there are already a vast percentage of the population who could use an all electric car. However, the "average" misleads due to the multitude who have actually driven up the "average" number.


    Re: BMW i8

    I have been very surprised by the i8. The reviews have been fantastic and the car looks a million dollars in real life. I want to drive one before I decide if it's a car I would buy. If you asked me previously I would have dismissed it, but now I'm changing my mind slowly about this car. My two biggest reservation is practicality (it's blardy hard to get in and out of this thing!) and the resale. I just don't know if there is a market for this car in the used market given it's at the high end. After all it cost the same as a GT3 (in Australia, not sure in other markets?) and whilst in looks exotic, it wouldn't go near a GT3 in performance. 


    Re: BMW i8

    WAY:

    I have been very surprised by the i8. The reviews have been fantastic and the car looks a million dollars in real life. I want to drive one before I decide if it's a car I would buy. If you asked me previously I would have dismissed it, but now I'm changing my mind slowly about this car. My two biggest reservation is practicality (it's blardy hard to get in and out of this thing!) and the resale. I just don't know if there is a market for this car in the used market given it's at the high end. After all it cost the same as a GT3 (in Australia, not sure in other markets?) and whilst in looks exotic, it wouldn't go near a GT3 in performance. 

    Wouldn't sound like a GT3 either - for me a sports car has to sound right - so I cannot see me ever attracted to hybrids. Of course if someone wants to sell me a 918 for the price of a Boxster GTS I might reconsider......Smiley


    --

     

    BMW 335d M Sport Touring estoril blue(cancelled - due to protracted delivery - back to square one) - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: BMW i8

    WAY:

    I have been very surprised by the i8. The reviews have been fantastic and the car looks a million dollars in real life. I want to drive one before I decide if it's a car I would buy. If you asked me previously I would have dismissed it, but now I'm changing my mind slowly about this car. My two biggest reservation is practicality (it's blardy hard to get in and out of this thing!) and the resale. I just don't know if there is a market for this car in the used market given it's at the high end. After all it cost the same as a GT3 (in Australia, not sure in other markets?) and whilst in looks exotic, it wouldn't go near a GT3 in performance. 

    The reviews in Germany were not so positive. The car seems to show massive understeer. No comparison for a standard 911 even Smiley


    Re: BMW i8

    Its a great "sports car" for the LA "in crowd", understeer for them is no problem, they don't even know what understeer is or even how many cylinders their cars engines have, so if it looks cool and can get them to Palm Springs or Vegas and back and if the car looks unique enough it will be successful there. 


    Re: BMW i8

    JimFlat6:

    Its a great "sports car" for the LA "in crowd", understeer for them is no problem, they don't even know what understeer is or even how many cylinders their cars engines have, so if it looks cool and can get them to Palm Springs or Vegas and back and if the car looks unique enough it will be successful there. 

    That is probably true... BMW just should not call the i8 a sports car based on what I heard to date. It might look like a sports car. But that is probably pretty much all it has in common with this species...


    Re: BMW i8

    Having read this thread from the beginning, it's amazing how much more appealing the i8 has become compared to the original impressions given in posts from last year!

    I disliked it too back then but, now having seen it, I reckon there's a lot going for it.  The front end reminds me of the 90's E31 8-series which was the last BMW I owned.  That was pre-Bangle and they seem to have finally casted off from his design influence which I really hated!

    Think I'm going to request a test drive...

     

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: BMW i8

    John H:

    Think I'm going to request a test drive...


    Do it John, it's a great experience. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: BMW i8

    Test drove it and my impressions are very, very mixed.

    Would I buy one? Never.


    Re: BMW i8

    SciFrog:

    Hybrid technology is flawed at the core. Once batteries get more capacity, hybrids will be obsolete.

    Right. And that is right around the corner. Just like it's been for a century.


    Re: BMW i8

    KresoF1:

    Test drove it and my impressions are very, very mixed.

    Would I buy one? Never.

    Tell me more. 


    Re: BMW i8

    JimFlat6:

    Its a great "sports car" for the LA "in crowd", understeer for them is no problem, they don't even know what understeer is or even how many cylinders their cars engines have, so if it looks cool and can get them to Palm Springs or Vegas and back and if the car looks unique enough it will be successful there. 

    Most Porsche owners don't experience oversteer or know what understeer is either. Just sayin'...


    Re: BMW i8

    noone1:
    JimFlat6:

    Its a great "sports car" for the LA "in crowd", understeer for them is no problem, they don't even know what understeer is or even how many cylinders their cars engines have, so if it looks cool and can get them to Palm Springs or Vegas and back and if the car looks unique enough it will be successful there. 

    Most Porsche owners don't experience oversteer or know what understeer is either. Just sayin'...

    +1 Smiley


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: BMW i8

    WAY:
    KresoF1:

    Test drove it and my impressions are very, very mixed.

    Would I buy one? Never.

    Tell me more. 

    It is neither flesh nor fish.

    I am supriesed that nobody that drove it get impression of very bad engine mechanical smoothness (so called laufkultur in native German). It is bad.

    Second thing is practicallity. 991 is way better for daily usage then i8. Only fuel consumption is better at i8.

    i8 is fast. Really? I got impression of good rathet then impressive acceleration in straight line. In drive dynamics car is light years behinde something like Caymen GTS or 991 CS. 

    What is it then? Interesting try from BMW. But, IMHO only a decent try.

    For example I liked Tesla S much more and it makes a lot more sense technology wise then i8.

    Or even better example-for little bit more money then i8 you can get latest e-Golf 7 and M4. I would take then over i8 always. 


    Re: BMW i8

    I would accept the i8 tech in a version of the 2 series or 4 series, but this pseudo-hypercar look makes the whole thing appear ridiculous. 


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: BMW i8

    KresoF1:
    WAY:
    KresoF1:

    Test drove it and my impressions are very, very mixed.

    Would I buy one? Never.

    Tell me more. 

    It is neither flesh nor fish.

    I am supriesed that nobody that drove it get impression of very bad engine mechanical smoothness (so called laufkultur in native German). It is bad.

    Second thing is practicallity. 991 is way better for daily usage then i8. Only fuel consumption is better at i8.

    i8 is fast. Really? I got impression of good rathet then impressive acceleration in straight line. In drive dynamics car is light years behinde something like Caymen GTS or 991 CS. 

    What is it then? Interesting try from BMW. But, IMHO only a decent try.

    For example I liked Tesla S much more and it makes a lot more sense technology wise then i8.

    Or even better example-for little bit more money then i8 you can get latest e-Golf 7 and M4. I would take then over i8 always. 

    BMW burned a lot of money with the i3 and the i8. These products are just made for political reasons. I don't know a single person in the automotive industry that believes in these concepts Smiley Maybe for small niche markets (like Tesla is also serving it). But beyond that?


    Re: BMW i8

    reginos:

    I would accept the i8 tech in a version of the 2 series or 4 series, but this pseudo-hypercar look makes the whole thing appear ridiculous. 

    + 1


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: BMW i8

    According to BMW Blog the UK's i8 allocation for the next year is sold out within two weeks of the car going on sale here. Prospective buyers will have to wait 10 months before the next batch is available.

    I also found out today from a source within a BMW dealership that despite BMW quoting 6 weeks delivery for the 335d / 435d X Drive models due to supply problems with the strengthened four wheel drive transfer box deliveries of this model is actually nearer 6 months. If I'd known that rather than being given BS I would never have ordered one and sold my 997....... Smiley


    --

     

    BMW 335d M Sport Touring estoril blue(cancelled - due to protracted delivery - back to square one) - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 8/11/21 2:00 PM
    throt
     
     
     
     
     
    452918 1287
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 9/25/21 12:11 PM
    WhoopsyM
    167407 1111
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 9/17/21 8:59 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    65605 380
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 9/27/21 1:55 AM
    watt
    54733 528
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    46554 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 9/27/21 4:56 PM
    WhoopsyM
    43375 392
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    12042 29
    Porsche Cayman GT4 5/4/21 4:46 PM
    Topspeed
    466105 3586
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 6/25/21 2:56 PM
    the-missile
    385075 3506
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 8/12/21 4:57 PM
    Topspeed
    381510 3918
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/28/21 12:26 PM
    W8MM
    347585 3252
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/8/20 7:51 PM
    DJM48
    317144 2646
    Porsche 992 GT3 9/27/21 2:19 PM
    the-missile
    263870 2988
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 9/26/21 10:49 AM
    WhoopsyM
    250843 1586
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    167549 1379
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    118072 1225
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 9/22/21 1:28 AM
    Leawood911
    102055 749
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 7/5/21 4:30 PM
    BjoernB
    92398 1221
    McLaren F1 7/10/21 7:43 AM
    BiTurbo
    82091 209
    Lambo Aventador and SV 8/27/21 2:33 PM
    Topspeed
    71417 698
    AMG AMG GT R 7/8/21 3:07 PM
    CGX car nut
    71277 824
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    50654 596
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 9/14/21 1:11 PM
    BjoernB
    47244 1165
    Others Bugatti Chiron 7/22/21 6:55 PM
    Topspeed
    41986 480
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 6/24/21 6:30 PM
    Porker
    39742 531
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    38545 615
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 7/7/21 8:38 PM
    Jim_in_Iowa
    30459 394
    Ferrari 488 Replacement 4/17/21 8:28 PM
    Rossi
    27456 370
    Lambo Urus (SUV) 7/21/21 6:22 PM
    Topspeed
    25901 592
    Motor Sp. [2021] Formula 1 9/27/21 7:01 PM
    KMM
    24385 682
    266 items found, displaying 1 to 30.