Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    http://www.autoextremist.com/page2.shtml#Rant

    Comments?

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Typical rantings of the "blogosphere"

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    This discussion is sooo 5 years ago. Someone is NOW lamenting the pointlessness / not-a-sportscar nature of the cayenne...?! Mr. self important blogger might as well just attack all SUVs in general...

    Also:

    Shouldn't critics of Porsche be more concerned with their shameless marketing/profit driven products and release timing methods?

    * The constant delays of new technology Direct Injection, DSG, etc

    (When was this technology promised?!?!)

    * The "watering down" of so called pure models (Ie the New 997 GT3 - even the RS to some degree - (slower on Nurburgring/etc than 996 models) in an effort to attrach more poseur customers who want the badge and none of the harsh ride (read: purity) that comes with it.

    (They just want to sell GT3s to all the people who traded 996 GT3s in for turbos after less than 1000km because it was too hardcore.)

    * The unacceptable behaviour of dealers shafting their best customers' orders in order to make a profit by flipping in-demand cars for over-msrp...

    (Countless stories of dealers rescinding deposit contracts in order to overspec GT3 RS's because they realized it was a hot commodity and wanted to make large profits...)

    In general not a good state of things from an enthusiats perspective.

    From an accountant's perspective, the company is very healthy indeed.

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    Shouldn't critics of Porsche be more concerned with their shameless marketing/profit driven products and release timing methods?

    * The constant delays of new technology Direct Injection, DSG, etc

    (When was this technology promised?!?!)



    I prefer companies that delay a product in order to make it right, than companies that rush out a half-baked product in order to make the deadline.

    I'm glad Porsche has chosen not to repeat the mistake of the first-gen PCCB.

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Porsche never makes mistakes with new models and options because the customers are the beta testers ...and always have been. When PDK 1.0 comes out, get ready for the crying towel.

    As for the Cayenne, It has to be the shortest heaviest passenger vehicle made. It is even heavier than a 17 foot long Cadillac limosuine. For that achievement Porsche should get a special award.


    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Well, at least, he says a lot of true things: Cayenne is an ineptia in Porsche history, there's no doubt about it. For the rest, Porsches have always been expensive, and the options list as long as a day without bread (french translation!).
    I'm also disappointed by the fact that the brand I love can't offer any solution to gas consumption yet. I'd be so proud to drive a Porsche that would drink as litle gas as a Lotus.

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    His theme sounds familiar.

    I am glad I am not the only one who perceives Porsche as a company that is losing it soul through exploitation of the brand. Make no mistake. It is happening and as he indicated, once it is lost it is almost impossible to get back.

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    I'm slowly understanding what nberry has been babbling about all these years...

    Btw, what do you think about Ferrari's merchandising techniques nberry? At least their core business is rather unaffected by the muppetry.

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    I'm slowly understanding what nberry has been babbling about all these years...

    Btw, what do you think about Ferrari's merchandising techniques nberry? At least their core business is rather unaffected by the muppetry.



    Merchandising isn't an issue so long as they don't produce 25 variations of its models and mass produce them. Selling trinkets to people who covet the car does not dilute the brand. Flooding the market with a number of look alike cars does.

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    H,mm
    yes i think Porsche are losing the plot , 997TT fantastic car ( nothing to really touch it at the Mo ) but i think everyone can see what road they going down , Poor customer service ( because they know they can sell the cars ) depreciation not a word spoken until the last few years now wham , they now they own Audi and Lambo , they were going to reign back supply of Turbo's and GT3 models to help prices in 06/07 but what's happening yep they are increasing supply because of GREED , so no longer will the cars be a steady loser they will become the same as the rest , Porsche buy Audi is this because they want the PDK patent from Audi ! And the V8 to put in yet another new model? And of course to use the Audi prod line to make yet more Porka's ! i think the hill has been reached and its a long way down still 997TT great car but i think it will be my last from the Porsche,Audi,Volkswagon,Lambo Group ( and whoever they buy next LOL ) Trouble is of course what do you buy then ! Italian total none every day drive?

    I think it bye bye Porsche as we have known it and welcome to a mass producer of every day fast cars that are not what they used to be Oh well i think we should all enjoy them while we can .

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Quote:
    Tboner said:
    H,mm
    yes i think Porsche are losing the plot , 997TT fantastic car ( nothing to really touch it at the Mo ) but i think everyone can see what road they going down , Poor customer service ( because they know they can sell the cars ) depreciation not a word spoken until the last few years now wham , they now they own Audi and Lambo , they were going to reign back supply of Turbo's and GT3 models to help prices in 06/07 but what's happening yep they are increasing supply because of GREED , so no longer will the cars be a steady loser they will become the same as the rest , Porsche buy Audi is this because they want the PDK patent from Audi ! And the V8 to put in yet another new model? And of course to use the Audi prod line to make yet more Porka's ! i think the hill has been reached and its a long way down still 997TT great car but i think it will be my last from the Porsche,Audi,Volkswagon,Lambo Group ( and whoever they buy next LOL ) Trouble is of course what do you buy then ! Italian total none every day drive?

    I think it bye bye Porsche as we have known it and welcome to a mass producer of every day fast cars that are not what they used to be Oh well i think we should all enjoy them while we can .



    Apparently this month issue of Consumer Reports (I have not read it) has indicated that though the 911 is a great car they would not recommend its purchase because of reliability problems. This is clearly a sign of over production. Quality suffers.

    BTW, for our European friends Consumer Reports is an independent testing organization which tests and reports on an array of products including cars. They do not accept any advertising from product manufacturers. Thus, they are considered objective and unbiased in their recommendations.

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    This is clearly a sign of over production. Quality suffers.




    There are no statistics that back that statement up. Overproduction and decreases in quality only occur during a rapid increase in sales and the company's quality control measures can't keep. Simply producing a large number of cars doesn't affect quality (Toyota, Lexus).

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Consumer Reports is notorious for using "old data" from earlier version of a particular model and applying it to later versions that have much better reliability.

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    "Overproduction"? What does that actually mean?

    It can't just mean production in vast numbers. If you can cope with production in vast numbers (e.g. Lexus or Toyota) then clearly that doesn't amount to "overproduction".

    It must surely mean production in numbers which is greater than the manufacturer can cope with (i.e. the manufacturer can't maintain the appropriate level of quality).

    So saying quality suffers when something is "overproduced" is simply tautologous. "Overproduction" by definition involves a fall in quality.

    Long story short, more BS from our resident troll

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Quote:
    Danny G said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    This is clearly a sign of over production. Quality suffers.




    There are no statistics that back that statement up. Overproduction and decreases in quality only occur during a rapid increase in sales and the company's quality control measures can't keep. Simply producing a large number of cars doesn't affect quality (Toyota, Lexus).



    Porsche is a small car company that has grown from producing cars in the 20,00 range to almost 100,000 cars in a span of eight years. Additionally, many of the models that make up the 100,000 share parts. For an example, the Boxster, Cayman and 911 share a good number of parts (the stated goal for Boxster and 911 is 60%). With part sharing in an expanding company comes complacency in assembly and compromises in functionality. All of which lead to reliability issues.

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Don't get me started on reliability issues. Porsche has a much better track record on building reliable cars than Italian marque cars such as your Ferrari for one.

    Does that mean that the more you pay for a car the less reliable it is?

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Reliability is fine, but there have been numerous reports of bad paint and other quality control issues with the 997 generation.

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    "Numerous reports"? Please document.

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Quote:
    atomic80 said:
    Don't get me started on reliability issues. Porsche has a much better track record on building reliable cars than Italian marque cars such as your Ferrari for one.

    Does that mean that the more you pay for a car the less reliable it is?




    LOL, that's so true. One of the reasons that I went for the 997Turbo instead of a Ferrari or DB9 was the reliability.

    One of my friend had a 360, he only drives it in the summer and one year the first day he went out the ECU went AWOL, the car stayed in the shop for 4 months waiting for parts, then the rain season starts and he refused to drive the Ferrari in the rain stating the car is undrivable in the wet. So that year he drove a total of 30 mins out of 365 days.

    He was pissed and while he was waiting for Ferrari to send over the ECU he ordered and took delivery of a 996Turbo and drive it year round. The Ferrari still sits in his garage but he hasn't touch it since. The battery is long dead and the tires are flat, he was gonna trade it in for something else but he was afraid the car is gonna die again on its way to be traded.

    He can afford to have a 200k car sit and rot in his garage but he can't afford to be seen stranded on the side of the road in a Ferrari again.

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Quote:
    Alan(NJ) said:
    http://www.autoextremist.com/page2.shtml#Rant

    Comments?



    He overstated the theory of mainstream car manufacturing (SUV's, 4-door family sedans) "interfering" with sports car manufacturing. He doesn't seem to want to recognize that Porsche was nearly bankrupt before Wiedeking took the helm and that the Boxster and Cayenne allow us to criticize Porsche at all, since Porsche wouldn't exist today if it weren't for the Boxster and Cayenne.

    Not that I am enamored with W-squared and his strategy building vanilla luxo-sporty cars. The Boxster (as the wife-mobile) and Cayenne-and next Panamera (as the family haulers) are NOT incompatible in Porsche's lineup with the 911 in all its variations (Carrera, race versions, turbo's) as the all-around best sports car in the world. What disappoints me is Porsche's resting on its laurels with the 911, marketing the car for the non-"enthusiast," and gradually lagging behind the competition in performance.

    BUT I believe DeLorenzo is wrong that Porsche's strategy will "fail" in economic terms. They will continue to be a successful (profitable) car manufacturer, even if they are no longer a class-leading sports car manufacturer....

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Quote:
    Wonderbar said:
    "Numerous reports"? Please document.



    Just look at the 997 Board

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Oh sorry, I must be looking at the wrong 997 board. The one I have followed for many months is overwhelmingly pleased with the 997...

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    I'm slowly understanding what nberry has been babbling about all these years...

    Btw, what do you think about Ferrari's merchandising techniques nberry? At least their core business is rather unaffected by the muppetry.



    Merchandising isn't an issue so long as they don't produce 25 variations of its models and mass produce them. Selling trinkets to people who covet the car does not dilute the brand. Flooding the market with a number of look alike cars does.



    Ferrari is doing something worse. Ferrari is making disgusting or bland looking cars. That's why their design chief was fired. They can get away with spitting in their customers' faces because of their low volume.

    David

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    So true. I've read of "numerous" reports of Ferraris catching on fire. Just read the Ferrari board. I've read "numerous" reports of less serious Ferrari quality problems. In fact I believe Nick himself found a quality problem with his beloved jewel. Something about panels not lining up or something like that. To further spit in their customers' faces, Ferrari charges exorbinant (much more than Porsche) to fix their problems!

    David

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    I disagree. Porsche is the most successful car company in the world and it hasn't lost its soul. It still makes cars like the 997, GT3, GT3RS, etc. Something for everyone. When it stops making such cars and only produces the Cayenne and Panamerica, then let's talk about Porsche losing its soul. Until then, let's talk about what a brilliant car company Porsche is.

    David

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    I disagree. Porsche is the most successful car company in the world and it hasn't lost its soul. It still makes cars like the 997, GT3, GT3RS, etc. Something for everyone. When it stops making such cars and only produces the Cayenne and Panamerica, then let's talk about Porsche losing its soul. Until then, let's talk about what a brilliant car company Porsche is.

    David



    Here ,i can identify myself with! If porsche hadn't had Mr
    .Wiedeking with his clear vision to need more models in order to make more profits and let the company stay independant, we probably would have lost "our" company to a chinese, korean or japanese manufacturer. Now the cayenne and hopefully panamera , are providing black results and make it possible to invest in research to develop new goodies for us 911-lovers!

    Re: C'mon tell us what you really think, Peter

    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    I disagree. Porsche is the most successful car company in the world and it hasn't lost its soul. It still makes cars like the 997, GT3, GT3RS, etc. Something for everyone. When it stops making such cars and only produces the Cayenne and Panamerica, then let's talk about Porsche losing its soul. Until then, let's talk about what a brilliant car company Porsche is.

    David



    Be advised that Porsche's current excellent finance situation is more attributed to excellent currency hedging that was set up years ago and recently reached maturity.

    Indeed they do sell alot of great cars and make excellent profit, but their so called 1 billion euro profit is not just from their cars.

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 10/25/21 12:29 AM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    479567 1291
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 10/18/21 10:58 PM
    Leawood911
    174780 1150
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 10/14/21 6:25 PM
    bluelines
    68521 382
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 10/26/21 8:39 AM
    Porker
    61975 646
    Porsche Sticky ROAD TEST: New 992 Carrera 4S 3/3/21 10:57 PM
    Wonderbar
    47865 336
    Porsche Sticky Porsche Taycan Turbo S - Short Review 10/26/21 3:26 AM
    Leawood911
    47366 447
    Porsche Sticky Porsche extends the Taycan model range (Taycan 2WD) 2/1/21 12:42 PM
    Leawood911
    13075 29
    Porsche Cayman GT4 10/5/21 7:04 PM
    Topspeed
    470901 3587
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 9/28/21 3:25 AM
    WhoopsyM
    387862 3507
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 10/20/21 6:01 PM
    Topspeed
    383259 3919
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 4/28/21 12:26 PM
    W8MM
    349467 3252
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 10/8/21 11:41 AM
    xpto
    319104 2647
    Porsche 992 GT3 10/22/21 10:59 AM
    reginos
    271054 3051
    Porsche OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 9/29/21 1:59 AM
    watt
    252951 1587
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016) 2/11/21 9:22 AM
    Itsme
    168649 1379
    Lambo Lamborghini Huracan and variants 4/9/21 4:32 PM
    Topspeed
    119089 1225
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 9/22/21 1:28 AM
    Leawood911
    103407 749
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 10/9/21 1:11 PM
    CGX car nut
    94416 1231
    McLaren F1 7/10/21 7:43 AM
    BiTurbo
    82863 209
    Lambo Aventador and SV 8/27/21 2:33 PM
    Topspeed
    72842 698
    AMG AMG GT R 7/8/21 3:07 PM
    CGX car nut
    72651 824
    Porsche Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan 11/23/20 6:10 PM
    Topspeed
    51457 596
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 10/26/21 11:17 PM
    Leawood911
    49585 1221
    Others Bugatti Chiron 10/16/21 4:53 PM
    crayphile
    43112 486
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 6/24/21 6:30 PM
    Porker
    40588 531
    Porsche Olive 991.2 GT3 Clubsport 1/1/21 7:58 PM
    throt
    39447 615
    BMW M BMW M2 Rumors 7/7/21 8:38 PM
    Jim_in_Iowa
    30795 394
    Ferrari 488 Replacement 4/17/21 8:28 PM
    Rossi
    27733 370
    Motor Sp. [2021] Formula 1 10/25/21 8:03 PM
    WhoopsyM
    27417 785
    Porsche GT4RS 10/26/21 7:33 PM
    WhoopsyM
    27233 434
    256 items found, displaying 1 to 30.