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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    I drove my 991.2 Turbo S with CUP2s quite a lot on tracks and without any issue. In fact they worked a lot better than the 4S. As with every (street) car, proper alignment helps to protect the tires, esp in the Turbo, which will eat a set of front tires for lunch :)
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    schmoell:

    I drove my 991.2 Turbo S with CUP2s quite a lot on tracks and without any issue. In fact they worked a lot better than the 4S. As with every (street) car, proper alignment helps to protect the tires, esp in the Turbo, which will eat a set of front tires for lunch :)
     

    Didn't Porsche "approve" Cup 2s for the 991.2 Turbo S? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    BiTurbo:

    Winner is.........

    https://www.motortrend.com/cars/lamborghini/huracan/2020/2020-best-drivers-car-winner-lamborghini-huracan-evo/

     

    The reality is (at least for me): Porsche still makes amazing cars, the GT models are fast, reliable and relatively "cheap" to operate on the track. They are also still quite emotional cars, which do not get boring.

    Lamborghini is a different story: They may not be the best cars for the track but they create tons of emotions and not only through their exhaust sound but also regarding the whole driving and owning experience. Design, engine, looks, all the noises involved in driving, the driving feel, everything. Highly emotional cars. Similar to what Ferrari was a couple of years ago but Ferrari is walking now a very (dangerous) path between Lamborghini and Porsche. I hope it works for them, they managed the transfer to turbo engines pretty well in my opinion but the new cars lack a little bit of soul, maybe with the exception of the Pista and the 812 in general.

    Bottom line is: For car enthusiasts, emotional cars will always have a deep impact on their perception. Even if an EV would have 2000 hp and do 0-60 in 1 second, I bet that many car enthusiasts would still prefer to drive a car like a Cayman GT4, 911 GT3/RS or Lamborghini Huracan Evo.

    We all here will have an EV at some point but I also bet that many of us will still have a "dinosaur" in the garage as well. At least one, preferably manySmiley more. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    RC:
    schmoell:

    I drove my 991.2 Turbo S with CUP2s quite a lot on tracks and without any issue. In fact they worked a lot better than the 4S. As with every (street) car, proper alignment helps to protect the tires, esp in the Turbo, which will eat a set of front tires for lunch :)
     

    Didn't Porsche "approve" Cup 2s for the 991.2 Turbo S? Smiley

    I remember correctly they were approved for the 991.1 Turbo but not for the .2


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    I don’t know why folks keep skipping over hybrid models. At least within the next 10 years, hybrid models with petrol and electric motors will be exceptionally exciting.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)








    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    Wonderbar:

    I don’t know why folks keep skipping over hybrid models. At least within the next 10 years, hybrid models with petrol and electric motors will be exceptionally exciting.

    But do governments want hybrid cars?  I don't know the answer, but it seems that subsidies, new regulations, etc. are favouring only pure EVs, wanting to reduce the proportion of combustion cars.... hybrids may be seen as just more efficient combustion dinosaurs...? 


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    I just read an article that underlines the wrong real life pollution level of hybrids and questions the numbers put on papers by car manufacturers. In order to achieve the official numbers owners should be driving in electric mode every time they can and recharge their cars every night. Reality shows that hybrid car owners never recharge their cars. They only rely on the combustion engine to do that. So at the end they have actually a  combustion pulling the car and it s electric engine. 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    Gnil:

    I just read an article that underlines the wrong real life pollution level of hybrids and questions the numbers put on papers by car manufacturers. In order to achieve the official numbers owners should be driving in electric mode every time they can and recharge their cars every night. Reality shows that hybrid car owners never recharge their cars. They only rely on the combustion engine to do that. So at the end they have actually a  combustion pulling the car and it s electric engine. 

    There was a time for these - as a way to bridge a gap which is quickly disappearing. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    Some EVs are already very fast and they might become even faster but a car without a gasoline engine cannot stir emotions.

    When EVs are enforced upon us I will stop driving for pleasure. I will get an inexpensive EV as a runabout and for the rest either use public transport or be driven by a chauffeur. I would never sacrifice thousands on a Tesla or Taycan type of car.

    It is a fallacy that the millions of EVs envisaged by environmentalists will end pollution. There will be need for enormous electrical power generation and the problem will be diverted to the location of the required power stations. Has this transfer of burden been accurately estimated?

    Moreover, besides the number  "high-end" countries which will commit to the banning of ICEs the poorer ROW will still use normal cars and trucks and probably of the older type.. Air and gases don't recognize boundaries and borders so everything will be back to zero. Unless USA for example install giant filters on the Mexico-US border wall that will catch polluted air, in the same successful way they have dealt with migration and contraband smiley


    --

     

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    Gnil:

    I just read an article that underlines the wrong real life pollution level of hybrids and questions the numbers put on papers by car manufacturers. In order to achieve the official numbers owners should be driving in electric mode every time they can and recharge their cars every night. Reality shows that hybrid car owners never recharge their cars. They only rely on the combustion engine to do that. So at the end they have actually a  combustion pulling the car and it s electric engine. 

     

    Depends on how one drives them.

    All hybrids defaults to starting off in EV or hybrid mode, so if the driver don't do anything, which most don't, the car stays in those 2 modes until the battery is drained. And that is the published 'consumption' or emission number. 

    Most hybrids in hybrid mode don't recharge the batteries to full, they only keep the batteries charged up to a nominal level to maintain some electric drive when the engine goes off, and if one wants more power then the engine comes back on. So on a hybrid with drained battery, when the car is on engine drive, some extra power is diverted to topping out the battery but it shuts off as soon as the requested power level can be sustained by the electric drive alone. Until the battery is gone again.

    I may not represent the majority of hybrid owners, but every day I pretty much used up the battery first, I rarely come home without a drained battery so I can use the charger to charge the battery instead of the engine. Using the engine to charge up the battery when driving takes an awfully long time after all. 

    The battery doesn't magically charged itself, most hybrids owners will realized that after driving one for a while, so you would think they would find a charger to charge up their batteries as they will surely noticed the engine doesn't do much to charge their batteries back up. (This is for the plug in hybrids, Toyota have mild hybrids, aka Prius, that can't be plugged in, so the engine will be doing all the work) (Another reason why Prius aren't actually too green a car)

    If one were to only needed to drive 30ish km a day, or do a 30km trip to the office, spend the day there while the car is charging and drive 30km back to home, A Panamera e-hybrid is just as 'clean' as a Tesla or any other EVs since the trip can be covered in electric mode for the Panamera without using the engine. Both will get government benefits from using a 'green' car, like tax rebates, carpool lane access, no congestion charge etc. The only different will be on long trips. The Panamera e-hybrid can cover 800+km on a full tank and full charge, while a Tesla will need a charge in between for that 800+km. But the Tesla will do the whole trip without local emission while the Panamera will be emitting something. 

     

     

     


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    Tbh Gnil, all my friends/family/co workers with hybrids (me included) charge their cars when parked at home. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Why wouldn’t they? Less time lost at the fuel pump + pre heating the interior. So ‘the reality that hybrid car owners never charge’ sounds like a serious stretch to me.


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    That said, would you be driving an hybrid if tax incentives didn’t force you to? It still feels like a forced ‘choice’ to me, the propulsion of choice would always be a 750i, no?


    --

    1969 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    Of course, but I would be a very bad manager if I would choose a 750i instead of a tax free and deductible 745e as a company car, registered in Belgium. Expenses saved can be invested elsewhere, and sitting in traffic feels the same in both cars...


    --

     

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    This is all interesting stuff–incentives, government regulations, when electric mobility will take over, etc. But bottom line for me is that I usually keep a car 3 to 4 years and during that time I want the one that satisfies me most, and with performance at a price point I deem appropriate. So when my next three-year stint comes along, I’ll go for a 911 with a petrol engine supplemented by an electric motor.  A mini 919 if you will. To me, that’s clarity amidst all the speculation and confusion.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    Top car kiss

    On P Zero tyres. No fancy circuit tyres for this all-purpose 911

     


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    spudgun:

    Tbh Gnil, all my friends/family/co workers with hybrids (me included) charge their cars when parked at home. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Why wouldn’t they? Less time lost at the fuel pump + pre heating the interior. So ‘the reality that hybrid car owners never charge’ sounds like a serious stretch to me.

    Never is a stretch , of course.

    The study was done in France. They have government incentives to push hybrids. Sales have risen by some 80 %. People only buy them because they are financially interesting. After the first ''serious'' buyers, like your friends, who use them properly, most are '' the mass'' people living in city, flats and people who do not want to invest in a home charging plug. They end up never charging the car....

     


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    reginos:

    Top car kiss

    On P Zero tyres. No fancy circuit tyres for this all-purpose 911

     

    I never understood why people want to drive on public roads with Cup tires Smiley   Cup tires make sense on track, where you can push the car ( or eventually  if you live in a 365 day a year dry and warm climat). But on public roads one is better off with PS4 or similar. Good enough grip for the speed limited public roads, good when wet, good when colder, more confortable etc... Cups on open rodas when it gets cold, or wet is a non sense. 


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    Gnil:
    spudgun:

    Tbh Gnil, all my friends/family/co workers with hybrids (me included) charge their cars when parked at home. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Why wouldn’t they? Less time lost at the fuel pump + pre heating the interior. So ‘the reality that hybrid car owners never charge’ sounds like a serious stretch to me.

    Never is a stretch , of course.

    The study was done in France. They have government incentives to push hybrids. Sales have risen by some 80 %. People only buy them because they are financially interesting. After the first ''serious'' buyers, like your friends, who use them properly, most are '' the mass'' people living in city, flats and people who do not want to invest in a home charging plug. They end up never charging the car....

     

     

    So the car turned into a mild hybrid like a Prius from a plug in hybrid, which is still 'greener' than a normal car. 

     


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    Whoopsy:
    Gnil:
    spudgun:

    Tbh Gnil, all my friends/family/co workers with hybrids (me included) charge their cars when parked at home. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Why wouldn’t they? Less time lost at the fuel pump + pre heating the interior. So ‘the reality that hybrid car owners never charge’ sounds like a serious stretch to me.

    Never is a stretch , of course.

    The study was done in France. They have government incentives to push hybrids. Sales have risen by some 80 %. People only buy them because they are financially interesting. After the first ''serious'' buyers, like your friends, who use them properly, most are '' the mass'' people living in city, flats and people who do not want to invest in a home charging plug. They end up never charging the car....

     

     

    So the car turned into a mild hybrid like a Prius from a plug in hybrid, which is still 'greener' than a normal car. 

     

    Exactly, but then it does not match anymore at all the official consumption and emissions indications. 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    Gnil:
    Whoopsy:
    Gnil:
    spudgun:

    Tbh Gnil, all my friends/family/co workers with hybrids (me included) charge their cars when parked at home. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Why wouldn’t they? Less time lost at the fuel pump + pre heating the interior. So ‘the reality that hybrid car owners never charge’ sounds like a serious stretch to me.

    Never is a stretch , of course.

    The study was done in France. They have government incentives to push hybrids. Sales have risen by some 80 %. People only buy them because they are financially interesting. After the first ''serious'' buyers, like your friends, who use them properly, most are '' the mass'' people living in city, flats and people who do not want to invest in a home charging plug. They end up never charging the car....

     

     

    So the car turned into a mild hybrid like a Prius from a plug in hybrid, which is still 'greener' than a normal car. 

     

    Exactly, but then it does not match anymore at all the official consumption and emissions indications. 

     

    Honestly, no car, EV, hybrids or normal, ever made actually matches their EPA, EU, whatever regulatory body numbers. Those numbers are done in a lab in ideal or unrealistic conditions. The current WLTP standards comes closest to real world but still a bit optimistic. 

    In the real world there are random events that would affect consumptions. There could be sudden traffic jams that stops cars, or unexpected traffic light sequence that made cars go straight through instead of stopping at every light. Heck, a tank of gas or a full charge of battery don't last the exact same distance every time. It's always going to be a ballpark figure. 


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    Whoopsy:
    Gnil:
    Whoopsy:
    Gnil:
    spudgun:

    Tbh Gnil, all my friends/family/co workers with hybrids (me included) charge their cars when parked at home. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Why wouldn’t they? Less time lost at the fuel pump + pre heating the interior. So ‘the reality that hybrid car owners never charge’ sounds like a serious stretch to me.

    Never is a stretch , of course.

    The study was done in France. They have government incentives to push hybrids. Sales have risen by some 80 %. People only buy them because they are financially interesting. After the first ''serious'' buyers, like your friends, who use them properly, most are '' the mass'' people living in city, flats and people who do not want to invest in a home charging plug. They end up never charging the car....

     

     

    So the car turned into a mild hybrid like a Prius from a plug in hybrid, which is still 'greener' than a normal car. 

     

    Exactly, but then it does not match anymore at all the official consumption and emissions indications. 

     

    Honestly, no car, EV, hybrids or normal, ever made actually matches their EPA, EU, whatever regulatory body numbers. Those numbers are done in a lab in ideal or unrealistic conditions. The current WLTP standards comes closest to real world but still a bit optimistic. 

    In the real world there are random events that would affect consumptions. There could be sudden traffic jams that stops cars, or unexpected traffic light sequence that made cars go straight through instead of stopping at every light. Heck, a tank of gas or a full charge of battery don't last the exact same distance every time. It's always going to be a ballpark figure. 

    The difference being with hybrids is that when they are not used properly ( charged at night ) the difference between the official mesure and the real world one increase so much that it becomes misinformation. Manufacturer will need to state the obvious or it becomes the same as what VW did, only that it is not cheating but client stupidity/ignorance 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    Hybrids should be obliged to have a kind of cut-off system that would prohibit the vehicle to start if not used as intended. There many parameters that could be installed in the software of a hybrid to regulate the use of electrical mobility.

    For me the combination of engine and electricity is the best. Electricity only is appropriate for city driving. If generally applied it will deduct any pleasure from driving. At the same time it will just transfer the burden of pollution to other locations unless nuclear power is used entirely, with its known risks and objections.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    To me, being obliged to have any type of cut off system (either gas or electric) would certainly remove all driving pleasure. 
     

    For what it is worth - silently blasting through traffic while driving regime else appear to be standing still is actually very, very entertaining.  I have way more fun driving the EV than the Turbo. It is not a given that ICE cars are more fun for everyone. 
     

    I’m not a fan of hybrid. Seems awesome at first until you realize range anxiety, if you have it, is best dealt with by getting a second car. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    Not sure blasting through traffic is fun no matter what you drive, when I was young and stupid I used to do that in a sportbike, which can really actually blast through traffic, and even then I wouldn't call it fun, and could not wait for the open road and really drive, myself, not an autopilot.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020)

    Carlos from Spain:

    Not sure blasting through traffic is fun no matter what you drive, when I was young and stupid I used to do that in a sportbike, which can really actually blast through traffic, and even then I wouldn't call it fun, and could not wait for the open road and really drive, myself, not an autopilot.

    I used the term blasting just to illustrate that not all EV travel is boring nor is noise a requirement for all to enjoy driving.  
    One of the best ways to enjoy driving is to arrive alive. The safety stats of some EVs are unquestionably excellent. When I was young and stupid I would ignore safety religiously. Lol. Now that I am not this way I appreciate the many safety nets available. 


     
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