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    Feb 17, 2008 3:54:24 AM

    JoeRockhead
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    What our cars say about us...

    Hi, fellow determined, highly successful, middle-aged professionals.

    http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/05/cars-se...partner=yahoofp

    Feb 17, 2008 3:58:34 AM

    SoCal Alan
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    Reply to: JoeRockhead

    Re: What our cars say about us...

    I'm not middle-aged, yet.

    But great article.

    Feb 17, 2008 4:09:42 AM

    JoeRockhead
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    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: What our cars say about us...

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    I'm not middle-aged, yet.

    But great article.



    Me neither. It's interesting to see what the perceptions are though. I think if you are younger and driving a 911, perceptions are a bit different.

    Feb 17, 2008 12:12:57 PM

    amazon
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    Reply to: JoeRockhead

    Re: What our cars say about us...

    Quote:
    JoeRockhead said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    I'm not middle-aged, yet.

    But great article.



    Me neither. It's interesting to see what the perceptions are though. I think if you are younger and driving a 911, perceptions are a bit different.



    I guess if you're in your early 20s and drive a 997, you'll be seen as spoiled kid spending daddy's money, or driving daddy's car. Either way, it' no good.

    And you'll attract jalousy too.

    But it also depends on where you live. If you're in NY, you're probably a successful trader, and if if you're in new port you'll be like any other young man in your neighbourhood.

    It all depends on the who you are, what you do for a living and where you live.

    Feb 17, 2008 2:26:38 PM

    Circe
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    Reply to: JoeRockhead

    Re: What our cars say about us...

    From the article, "Take the Porsche 911. Its buyers are 86.8% male with the average age of 51 and median income of $390,000...'

    Sorry guys. I didn't realize how significantly my numbers influenced the average downward. ...... :

    Feb 17, 2008 4:03:24 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: Circe

    Re: What our cars say about us...

    Seems like the trend has shifted. When they first came out (late 60s and 70s) it seemed like lots of young guys were driving 911s.

    Seems like as the car got beefier, safer, AC, more HP, the drivers got older.

    Nevertheless, as far as the middle aged thing? 35-40 is middle aged, right? Most of us will be lucky to live beyond 80. So, if 51 is the average age of Carrera drivers the Porsche 911 is not for middle-aged drivers: it's for OLD men.

    Feb 17, 2008 6:09:37 PM

    beltar
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: What our cars say about us...

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Seems like the trend has shifted. When they first came out (late 60s and 70s) it seemed like lots of young guys were driving 911s.

    Seems like as the car got beefier, safer, AC, more HP, the drivers got older.
    .



    That's only the proof that porsche is very addictive... The young men of the 70's are so addicted to the virus they are still driving a 911 when they get 60,70 or even 80!

    I was dreaming 911 since childhood, bought my 1st for my 35th birthday, now 12 years later i'm still enjoying my 4th 911 and looking forward at the 998 in a few years... At that point i'll reach the average age...
    So that means i still have a lot of 911 years to come!

    Feb 17, 2008 8:26:38 PM

    Jim48
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    Reply to: JoeRockhead

    Re: What our cars say about us...

    Quote:
    JoeRockhead said:
    Hi, fellow determined, highly successful, middle-aged professionals.

    http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/05/cars-se...partner=yahoofp



    I'm old! I had just turned 58 less than I month before I took delivery of my 911S and am now 60. All I can say is "the passion for driving a Porsche" didn't die in me - it stayed alive (while a bit dormant) until I had the money to get one. Wish I had gotten one sooner, but better later than never!!!!

    I'm still glad I bought one, even after two years of ownership. I have not gotten tired of it.

    Jim

    Feb 17, 2008 8:41:49 PM

    Le Chef
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    Reply to: Jim48

    Lies damn lies and statistics

    If this kind of stuff flatters your ego, so be it, but the truth is it's a crock of the warm and steamy stuff that horses produce.

    Flip the argument around and say what % of all "determined" drivers own a Porsche or what % of all those who earn $390K own a Porsche and you will see how shallow this kind of thinking is.

    Feb 17, 2008 10:06:14 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: Le Chef

    Re: Lies damn lies and statistics

    Good point.

    Flip it this way too maybe: if Porsches were half-priced instead of 50 the average age of ownership would drop to what? 30? 35?



    Feb 18, 2008 12:19:28 AM

    Circe
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Lies damn lies and statistics

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Good point.

    Flip it this way too maybe: if Porsches were half-priced instead of 50 the average age of ownership would drop to what? 30? 35?




    Half price? The 60's were good to me but I'm back now; I don't smoke that stuff any more! A new 911 for 40 grand? Never................(Just teasing a bit).

    I do see your point. Lower the price to make the car more affordable to more folks and you may see a corresponding lowering of the average age of the 911 owner . But in order to do that, I presume the 911 would be a whole different animal and no doubt we would lose most of those $390,000 a year guys I like to hang around with. Then who will be my friends? The poor guys who only make $300-$325K a year? Perish the thought. .......................

    Feb 18, 2008 2:23:29 AM

    waiting for PDK
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    Reply to: Le Chef

    Re: Lies damn lies and statistics

    Quote:
    Le Chef said:
    Flip the argument around and say what % of all "determined" drivers own a Porsche or what % of all those who earn $390K own a Porsche and you will see how shallow this kind of thinking is.



    I'll stick up for a fellow Chicagoan but I don't see your argument. The determined drivers stuff is marketing fluff but the $390K is a median. It could well be not a single Porsche driver makes $390K and the math would hold. So what. I would guess most people on an internet forum are under the median. Take it for what it is--a statistical snapshot. You can argue the interpretation, but not the numbers.

    The average number of legs a person has is less than two (due to amputees). Yet you'll never meet anyone with 1.99 legs.

    Feb 18, 2008 3:23:46 AM

    chapse
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: What our cars say about us...

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Seems like the trend has shifted. When they first came out (late 60s and 70s) it seemed like lots of young guys were driving 911s.

    Seems like as the car got beefier, safer, AC, more HP, the drivers got older.

    Nevertheless, as far as the middle aged thing? 35-40 is middle aged, right? Most of us will be lucky to live beyond 80. So, if 51 is the average age of Carrera drivers the Porsche 911 is not for middle-aged drivers: it's for OLD men.



    MMD:
    You may want to read up on middle age

    http://www.middleage.org/definition.shtml

    Feb 18, 2008 6:38:31 AM

    Lars997M
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    Reply to: JoeRockhead

    Re: What our cars say about us...

    Quote:
    JoeRockhead said:
    Hi, fellow determined, highly successful, middle-aged professionals.




    If i would be a girl I woudnt like that you call me professional! :grin

    Feb 18, 2008 10:34:55 AM

    John H Offline
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    Reply to: chapse

    Re: What our cars say about us...

    Quote:
    chapse said:
    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Seems like the trend has shifted. When they first came out (late 60s and 70s) it seemed like lots of young guys were driving 911s.

    Seems like as the car got beefier, safer, AC, more HP, the drivers got older.

    Nevertheless, as far as the middle aged thing? 35-40 is middle aged, right? Most of us will be lucky to live beyond 80. So, if 51 is the average age of Carrera drivers the Porsche 911 is not for middle-aged drivers: it's for OLD men.



    MMD:
    You may want to read up on middle age

    http://www.middleage.org/definition.shtml



    Many thanks - very good article...

    I learnt a good while ago that age is a state of mind.

    My take on it is - "There's nothing you can do about getting older, but there's a great deal you can do about getting old".

    Feb 18, 2008 11:08:21 AM

    MMD
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    Reply to: John H

    Re: What our cars say about us...

    Thanks for the excellent link chapse. I waaaaay overestimated my "age;" looks like I'll be trading in my P-car for a Lotus.

    Feb 18, 2008 5:53:59 PM

    mvn1971
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: What our cars say about us...

    My friend is a young single professional(early 30's) living in SoCal who is deciding between a 5 series BMW (not the M5)and a 911. He can easily afford both. It will be his first major purchase. I'm trying to convince him to get the porsche. It is shallow but it will definitely help in the fight to attract a beautiful women. However, he argues that the BMW is pratical, looks nice, and he said, "I want a women who wants me for me." To me a 5 series, doesn't say single, daring, but rather married and maybe boring. Not trying to offend BMW owners. Just trying to make a point. I think he's really leaning toward's the 5 series. The point is, "What you drive says alot about you."

    Feb 18, 2008 5:59:18 PM

    SoCal Alan
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    Reply to: mvn1971

    Re: What our cars say about us...

    Quote:
    mvn1971 said:
    However, he argues that the BMW is pratical, looks nice, and he said, "I want a women who wants me for me."



    How naive.

    Feb 18, 2008 6:17:56 PM

    mvn1971
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    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: What our cars say about us...

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    mvn1971 said:
    However, he argues that the BMW is pratical, looks nice, and he said, "I want a women who wants me for me."



    How naive. [/quote My thoughts exactly. In my opinion, a woman wants first, a man who is established (lets get to the point, a man with some money), at least decent looking, somewhat nice, and lastly not boring. If you have 4 of these qualities, you won't do bad with the ladies, especially in SoCal. A man's first thought of a woman, physical attraction, 2nd repeat the first, 3rd personality, and then career and brains. Like I said earlier, the porsche might not help but for sure it wouldn't hurt. Besides that aspect, I tried to explain to him, there is nothing like driving a sports car, especially a Porsche.

    Feb 18, 2008 11:11:05 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: Le Chef

    Re: Lies damn lies and statistics

    Quote:
    Le Chef said:
    If this kind of stuff flatters your ego, so be it, but the truth is it's a crock of the warm and steamy stuff that horses produce.

    Flip the argument around and say what % of all "determined" drivers own a Porsche or what % of all those who earn $390K own a Porsche and you will see how shallow this kind of thinking is.





    I would wager that over 1/2 of Porsche owners NET WORTH is less than $390,000. The general public especially the media remain in a time warp.

    Feb 19, 2008 1:19:58 AM

    MMD
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Lies damn lies and statistics

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    I would wager that over 1/2 of Porsche owners NET WORTH is less than $390,000.






    Yeah, especially after following threads about how the S is unnecessary compared to the non-S.



    Feb 19, 2008 1:24:36 AM

    krown05
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Lies damn lies and statistics

    not middle-aged, but great article

    Feb 19, 2008 1:24:36 AM

    krown05
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Lies damn lies and statistics

    not middle-aged, but great article

    Feb 19, 2008 4:35:52 AM

    thuggy
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Lies damn lies and statistics

    Quote:
    waiting for PDK said:
    I'll stick up for a fellow Chicagoan but I don't see your argument. The determined drivers stuff is marketing fluff but the $390K is a median. It could well be not a single Porsche driver makes $390K and the math would hold.



    Actually Median would mean that at least one owner reported a $390K number. I think you meant the Mean.

    Quote:
    nberry said:


    I would wager that over 1/2 of Porsche owners NET WORTH is less than $390,000. The general public especially the media remain in a time warp.



    They said owners, not leasers.

    Feb 19, 2008 12:35:04 PM

    zzbobaA
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Lies damn lies and statistics

    People love to read articles like the one from FORBES.com, but it's complete nonsense. It's just entertainment -- or sales promotion, since all charasteristics sound like they've been written by the manufacturers's marketing dept.:

    Quote:
    The Audi RS4 driver is a well-rounded man who wants a functional, practical, stylish and high-performance car in one package. He is highly successful and confident, and is comfortable shopping on Rodeo Drive or doing business on Park Avenue.

    Feb 19, 2008 7:38:13 PM

    Jim48
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    Reply to: Le Chef

    Re: Lies damn lies and statistics

    Le Chef,

    If you're worried that Porsche owners aren't an exclusive enough "club," then order a Ferrari, Lamborghini, or Aston Martin.

    I happen to think that Porsche's market niche is in the lower price end that is: 1) a high performance, well-handling car; 2) a daily driver if one wants that attribute; and, 3) is a lot more exclusive than your basic "performance car."

    Of course it is not as exclusive as a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, or other super-exotic car, but then, IMHO, it is only intended to be in such a model as the CGT or the GT2.

    Jim

    Feb 20, 2008 3:49:20 AM

    Le Chef
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    Reply to: Jim48

    Jim 48

    None of the above. My observation was about ego-massaging statistics and how it makes the insecure purr and feel good about what others might see in them driving a Porsche.

    I couldn't give a flying f*ck about what people think about me driving a Porsche, or what other Porsche owners think. It's an irrelevance: I bought the car because I like driving it.

    If I really cared about what people thought about me I would have bought a yellow Ferrari F430.

    Feb 20, 2008 7:47:06 PM

    Jim48
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    Reply to: Le Chef

    Re: Jim 48

    Le Chef,

    Agree!!!!!! I have a pretty good friend who went absolutely "ape" when I ordered my 911S. He went out and leased a BMW Z4. Frankly, I share your belief in that I don't really care what others think of my car. I bought it because I wanted it, not to impress others or make them jealous.

    The bottom line is that I think Porsche owners, by and large, buy the car in part because of a confidence in their judgment regarding the quality of the car they want and much less to impress others.

    Regards,

    Jim

    Feb 20, 2008 7:52:55 PM

    JoeRockhead
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    Reply to: Jim48

    Re: Jim 48

    Quote:
    Jim48 said:
    Le Chef,

    Agree!!!!!! I have a pretty good friend who went absolutely "ape" when I ordered my 911S. He went out and leased a BMW Z4. Frankly, I share your belief in that I don't really care what others think of my car. I bought it because I wanted it, not to impress others or make them jealous.

    The bottom line is that I think Porsche owners, by and large, buy the car in part because of a confidence in their judgment regarding the quality of the car they want and much less to impress others.

    Regards,

    Jim




    I agree. It's funny though, I brought the car over to show my friend and his girlfriend comes outside and immediately starts with the 'compensating' lines. Everyone has an opinion (right, Nick ) but we can choose not to listen to them.

    Feb 20, 2008 8:00:59 PM

    thuggy
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    Reply to: JoeRockhead

    Re: Jim 48

    LOL... the "compensating line" is just like the jealousy defense mechanism that makes guys say any good looking girl who rejects them is a really a b!tch anyway and any really good looking guy is probably gay.
     
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