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    May 22, 2005 5:04:29 PM

    JL13
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    No breaking in necessary for 997?

    I was talking to a friend who owns a car museum down in St. Louis, http://www.kempautomuseum.com/, and he said that it is not necessary to break in a porsche or mercedes because they are already broken in in the factory, the engine has already been run in the factory. He said that porsche are meant to be driven hard and that breaking in is not necessary for the car. Just want to know if this is true or not...

    May 22, 2005 5:46:12 PM

    Niko
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    Reply to: JL13

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    What does the manual say?

    May 22, 2005 6:12:31 PM

    bluelines
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    Reply to: Niko

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    If I remember right the manual says "For the first 4000 km drive it like you stole it"

    RTFM and follow it

    May 22, 2005 6:15:24 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: bluelines

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    I'd drive it pretty hard (but no full throttle pedal to the floor), shift alot, BUT I would NOT routinely exceed the RPM limits during break in period.

    May 22, 2005 6:20:14 PM

    wtsnet
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    Reply to: JL13

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    Hmmm, I just wonder about the logistics of Porsche doing this with the volumes of engines they must produce at Stuttgart.... How long would it take to run 3000km on each engine? Would they have a whole room full of engines they're breaking in?.... I don't think that'd be practical for them. Easier and cheaper to write a running in procedure in the handbook and let the customer do it.

    Perhaps Ferrari run their Enzo engines in on the bench, but I think the volumes that Porsche kick out would make it un-economic.

    May 22, 2005 6:24:32 PM

    JL13
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    Reply to: Niko

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    I really don't know anything about it the manual say that it should be broken in correctly but my friend claims that it is not necessary to break in an engine because it is already broken in. I am sure that if they really do break in the engine, there must be a way for them to do so so that it won't be such a hassle for them.

    May 22, 2005 6:31:19 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: JL13

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    Quote:
    JL13 said:
    I was talking to a friend who owns a car museum down in St. Louis, http://www.kempautomuseum.com/, and he said that it is not necessary to break in a porsche or mercedes because they are already broken in in the factory, the engine has already been run in the factory. He said that porsche are meant to be driven hard and that breaking in is not necessary for the car. Just want to know if this is true or not...



    Not true.
    This has been discussed here before, where Porsche engines are concerned. They are just "function-tested" at the factory, meaning that they are checked to see that they are oil-, water-, and gas-tight, and that the torque developed is within the usual range at the speeds and loads that the engine is run at.
    This test is not long enough to eliminate the need for breaking in the engine.

    May 22, 2005 8:06:42 PM

    brunner
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    Reply to: JL13

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    Quote:
    JL13 said:
    I really don't know anything about it the manual say that it should be broken in correctly but my friend claims that it is not necessary to break in an engine because it is already broken in.


    What about the other 183219 pieces from the transmission, driveline, engine auxiliaries & stuff like that?
    Ok, it might perform well the first 20k km or so. Then what?

    May 22, 2005 9:09:07 PM

    1Gunner
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    Reply to: brunner

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    If this is true, why does the manual say this :

    Break in hints for the first
    2,000 miles/3,000 kilometers

    The following tips will be helpful in obtaining optimum
    performance from your new Porsche.
    Despite the most modern, high-precision manufacturing
    methods, it cannot be completely avoided
    that the moving parts have to wear in with each
    other. This wearing-in occurs mainly in the first
    2,000 miles/3,000 km.
    Therefore:
    - Preferably take longer trips.
    - Avoid frequent cold starts with short-distance
    driving whenever possible.
    - Avoid full throttle starts and abrupt stops.
    - Do not exceed maximum engine speed of
    4,200 rpm (revolutions per minute).
    - Do not run a cold engine at high rpm either in
    Neutral or in gear.
    - Do not let the engine labor, especially when
    driving uphill. Shift to the next lower gear in
    time (use the most favorable rpm range).
    - Never lug the engine in high gear at low
    speeds. This rule applies at all times, not just
    during the break-in period.
    - Do not participate in motor racing events,
    sports driving schools, etc. during the first
    2,000 miles/3,000 kilometers.
    There may be a slight stiffness in the steering,
    gear-shifting or other controls during the break-in
    period which will gradually disappear.

    May 22, 2005 9:36:02 PM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: 1Gunner

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    I find it very hard to believe that a manufacturer as precise as Porsche would recommend something completely superfluous in their owner's manual. It's up to you whether you choose to adhere to the instructions - it's your car after all - but the recommendation from Porsche is abundantly clear to all but the most ardent conspiracy theorists.

    May 22, 2005 9:53:38 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    - but the recommendation from Porsche is abundantly clear to all but the most ardent conspiracy theorists.



    In this day and age that category seems to include the majority of the population!

    May 22, 2005 9:59:43 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: fritz

    Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    Uh, gee guys, did you read much on production methods?

    If I emember correctly the 50 or so miles on your odometers when you take delivery are from Porsche test driving them on their test track. Those 50 mph and the bench tests before installation pretty much breaks the piston rings in at least, right?

    I'm SURE they test driver puts the car thru some heavy stress in those 50 miles. I doubt he cares much about limiting revs.

    Does this make any sense? It's just a guess on my part

    May 22, 2005 10:33:08 PM

    med
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    That's a fair point about the test drivers, but at the end of the day do what the manual says.
    Its incredibly hard at times to take it easy and break in properly in a car that you've waited ages for, but you will not regret it in the long run, I certainly wont, my car has 3,300 miles and drives like a dream.
    Lots has been posted about the break in before, one bit of advice that I think is worth re-mentioning is that; if you drive the car hard from day one oil useage is increased dramiticaly, that cannot possibly be good for the engine and points to engine wear IMO.

    May 22, 2005 11:22:21 PM

    JL13
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    No matter what, i think i should better off drive the car nicely and then floor it later on rather then risking the car's life span. thanks for the input

    May 23, 2005 12:16:25 AM

    TheOldMan
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    Reply to: JL13

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    There are many opinions about break in. It is a very subjective topic. I am no expert, but I have broken in a few cars and motorcycles over time. Years ago, when it came to performance bikes, the expression was, break it in fast and it will run fast, break it in slow, and it will run slow. With that said....

    In my opinion...

    The owners manual is not wrong. There are many good suggestions that should be followed. It would be prudent to follow the instructions. However, there are degrees of freedom that the manual just does not deal with. One is the mileage and the other is the rev limit.

    I would suggest that the breakin period is less than the quoted 3000km/2000miles. My dealer stated that the real breakin period is 1/2 the quoted numbers. It is my opinion as well that the manual is probably conservative in this regard and that the car can be safely driven harder after the first 1500km. Maybe not crazy hard, but harder than the manual would lead you to believe.

    The other is the RPM limit. I do not believe that you will cause damage to exceed the RPM limit occasionaly during the break in period if the oil is at operating temperature (90C) and you are not taking it to the limit.

    The engine/drivetrain does not magically change at 3000km or 2000 miles to make it able to go faster without damage. It is an evolving process of wear and adjustment of all the mechanical parts. And as such the car can be driven progressively harder with each passing mile.

    Years ago I had the pleasure of managing a team of people involved in technical documentation. The teams consisted of engineers, lawyers, writers, marketing and business people. The discussions were heated and colorful. One thing is clear from that experience, the technical printed word is an opinion of compromise and not absolute fact. Nuances and exceptions to the general/basic rule never make it to the manual.

    Just remember, take it easy until the oil is at operating temperature.

    May 23, 2005 1:16:16 AM

    ewi
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    If I emember correctly the 50 or so miles on your odometers when you take delivery are from Porsche test driving them on their test track.



    I have seen a special about Porsche test drivers on TV a few years ago. The new cars were test driven on public roads at normal speeds. People living in the Stuttgart area can see them sometimes. These cars have big shields mounted in front of the front bumber so that they don't get chips.
    In the factory all engines are performance tested before they are built in. I don't know the test procedure for the 997 but my Porsche 993 brochure from 08/95 states the following for the test procedure: ... after about 10 minutes the engine does more than 5000rpm ...
    So, I assume that they slowly increase the rpm to see whether torque and power meet the specified tolerances.
    This test certainly does not replace the break in period.
    ewi

    May 23, 2005 1:21:28 AM

    MMD
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    Reply to: ewi

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    What would be REALLY cool? If somebody somewhere could find out how many cars Porsche refuses to warrenty because the owner did not follow the break-in guidelines. Would be good to find out how many cars were prematurely aged by not following those break-in rules.

    But alas, those numbers, like RMS leaks, are probably closely guarded secrets.

    BTW, is there ANY mechanism by which Porsche could detect that the owner did NOT follow the break-in rules?

    Just wondering.

    May 23, 2005 1:54:56 AM

    SoCal Alan
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    BTW, is there ANY mechanism by which Porsche could detect that the owner did NOT follow the break-in rules?

    Just wondering.



    Of course they could. They could determine if you hit a certain rpm by a certain odometer reading or timestamp it ( date and time of the occurence). And how many times you did it and for how long. Same for speed. And they can record it for retrieval later at the shop. Kind of like a black box.

    May 23, 2005 1:56:24 AM

    Trundle_GT3
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    If I emember correctly the 50 or so miles on your odometers when you take delivery are from Porsche test driving them on their test track. Those 50 mph and the bench tests before installation pretty much breaks the piston rings in at least, right?

    I'm SURE they test driver puts the car thru some heavy stress in those 50 miles. I doubt he cares much about limiting revs.

    Does this make any sense? It's just a guess on my part



    50 miles at delivery??? You gotta be kidding
    My 'S' was delivered with 18

    May 23, 2005 2:30:00 AM

    Niko
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    Reply to: Trundle_GT3

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    Quote:
    Trundle997S said:
    Quote:
    MMD said:
    If I emember correctly the 50 or so miles on your odometers when you take delivery are from Porsche test driving them on their test track. Those 50 mph and the bench tests before installation pretty much breaks the piston rings in at least, right?

    I'm SURE they test driver puts the car thru some heavy stress in those 50 miles. I doubt he cares much about limiting revs.

    Does this make any sense? It's just a guess on my part



    50 miles at delivery??? You gotta be kidding
    My 'S' was delivered with 18



    I guess the dealership took it for a quick joy riding session before they handed the keys over to you.

    May 23, 2005 2:41:36 AM

    SoCal Alan
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    Reply to: Niko

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    Quote:
    Niko said:
    Quote:
    Trundle997S said:
    Quote:
    MMD said:
    If I emember correctly the 50 or so miles on your odometers when you take delivery are from Porsche test driving them on their test track. Those 50 mph and the bench tests before installation pretty much breaks the piston rings in at least, right?

    I'm SURE they test driver puts the car thru some heavy stress in those 50 miles. I doubt he cares much about limiting revs.

    Does this make any sense? It's just a guess on my part



    50 miles at delivery??? You gotta be kidding
    My 'S' was delivered with 18



    I guess the dealership took it for a quick joy riding session before they handed the keys over to you.



    Maybe the dockworkers took it around the block when they took it off the ship. Or some potential customer asked the dealer, "Please, I just want to test drive it."

    May 23, 2005 3:00:11 AM

    rss996
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    search the archives, tired subject.........

    May 23, 2005 3:14:42 AM

    MMD
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    Reply to: Trundle_GT3

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    Quote:
    Trundle997S said:

    50 miles at delivery??? You gotta be kidding
    My 'S' was delivered with 18



    WOW. That IS weird. Each 996 was given at least 50 miles of testing on the Porsche test track in Germany before it was shipped off. The Boxster was given 30 miles supposedly because in Finland where they were produced the test track is smaller and the days are shorter and the weather is lousier.

    Would be interesting to find out Porsche no longer gives a decent test drive to each car.

    May 23, 2005 5:45:04 AM

    Mike S
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    Reply to: Trundle_GT3

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    Quote:
    Trundle997S said:
    Quote:
    MMD said:
    If I emember correctly the 50 or so miles on your odometers when you take delivery are from Porsche test driving them on their test track. Those 50 mph and the bench tests before installation pretty much breaks the piston rings in at least, right?

    I'm SURE they test driver puts the car thru some heavy stress in those 50 miles. I doubt he cares much about limiting revs.

    Does this make any sense? It's just a guess on my part



    50 miles at delivery??? You gotta be kidding
    My 'S' was delivered with 18



    wow mine was delivered with 9?!?!

    May 23, 2005 4:13:01 PM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: rss996

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    Quote:
    rss996 said:
    search the archives, tired subject.........



    I couldn't agree more with you man!...

    May 23, 2005 5:39:22 PM

    Silver Bullet
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: No breaking in necessary for 997?

    My dealer said that every 8th 996 (or so) was taken onto a track before leaving Germany for quality control.

    May 23, 2005 6:06:43 PM

    med
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    med
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    Reply to: Mike S

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Quote:
    Trundle997S said:
    Quote:
    MMD said:
    If I emember correctly the 50 or so miles on your odometers when you take delivery are from Porsche test driving them on their test track. Those 50 mph and the bench tests before installation pretty much breaks the piston rings in at least, right?

    I'm SURE they test driver puts the car thru some heavy stress in those 50 miles. I doubt he cares much about limiting revs.

    Does this make any sense? It's just a guess on my part



    50 miles at delivery??? You gotta be kidding
    My 'S' was delivered with 18



    wow mine was delivered with 9?!?!




    Mine had 10 miles, I reckon 50 is excessive and needs explaining

    May 24, 2005 9:47:57 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    If I emember correctly the 50 or so miles on your odometers when you take delivery are from Porsche test driving them on their test track. Those 50 mph and the bench tests before installation pretty much breaks the piston rings in at least, right?

    I'm SURE they test driver puts the car thru some heavy stress in those 50 miles. I doubt he cares much about limiting revs.




    If you get to visit the Porsche factory and/or museum sometime, you'll see that the sports cars are tested on the public road, not a test track. Unlike the Leipzig facility where the Cayennes and Carrera GTs are assembled, there is no test track at Zuffenhausen.

    I've taken delivery of many new Porsches down the last ??? years, mostly with about 30 km (20 miles) on the clock. A couple had 50 - 60 km on the clock, suggesting that something was found the first time, and it was taken around the block again after being fixed.

    My attitude to that is that it's nice to know they care enough to take the trouble.

    I suspect that the test drivers look and listen for out-of-the-ordinary sensations, sounds, and vibrations, which would not be best achieved by running the cars in rev ranges which would mask any potential problems.

    May 25, 2005 12:53:14 PM

    69bossnine
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    1. Tired subject

    2. The owner's manual is conservative, and just a "guideline", not a warranty-breaker, not even CLOSE..

    3. If it were so damn important, Porsche would demand that all dealer "test-drive" cars be broken in fully by an authorized tech before any hot-foot test-driver be allowed behind the wheel. They don't demand that. They beat the daylights out of the dealer demo models, and then they sell them to the public, with full warranty and a smile. And according to my dealer's master tech with 25 years experience, he's NEVER seen any pattern of ex-demo-models having mechanical failure or wear that's any different than privately ordered and purchased vehicles. According to him, "forget the 1st 2,000 miles, it's the way the owner treats it for the ensuing 100,000+ miles that really shows up...".

    May 25, 2005 1:20:40 PM

    Balloonmeister
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Where'd that 50 miles on the ODOMETER come from?

    At my visit to the Porsche Stuttgart factory last month I learned:
    1. Each engine is tested for 30 minutes (10 minutes warm up, 10 minutes at higher RPMS, but never redlined, and then 10 minutes of cool down). They use these tests to document engine performance (as a previous posting stated.) This data is kept by Porsche and is not available to the eventual buyer (but obviously might be used in the event of an engine failure later on).
    2. Some small percentage of the cars built at Stuttgart are road (not track) tested on public roads in the Stuttgart area. These cars have heavy plastic film on the outer body parts to prevent any chip damage, thus explaining why some folks end up with cars with excessive (50?) miles on them and most of us don't. Mine had 6 miles when delivered. At the end of the factory tour we were taken to the area where test cars were parked and returning from their test drives and saw maybe 10 cars there. But the tour leader emphasized that the number tested is small. All test drives are done by long time Porsche workers who are supposedly able to identify any abnormal noise locations in the car or other issues that may need following up on.
     
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