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    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    sfo:

    M135i is £30k in the UK, the 4C will be £52k .. not the same market

    You are aware that the current price tag seems to be for the special edition shown in Geneva? The regular 4C will be in the M135i and A45 AMG range as far as I know, at least over here in Germany.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    We're being told £45k to £50k for the standard model but its still a bit speculative I think


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    As far as I am aware the UK price for the std car is going to be c£38k (this was confirmed Jan I believe).  The launch special edition car will be £51,600.

    Im keeping a keen eye on the 4C as I really loved the concept but Im a bit concerned that at 240BHP it will be below expectations albeit that 895kg does sound probably better than my expectations.  I believe there is talk of a more powerful engine to follow.  At less than half the price of other cars that are catching my eye at the moment I remain interested, but have yet to get as far as visting a Alfa dealer...


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    launch edition must be pretty special to justify the £14k premium .. that's nearly a new Golf.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    It's very ugly. Alfa Romeos design is very disappointing nowadays.

     

    But the concept seems to show great promise.

    900 kg mid-engined car wit h around 240 hp with a more livable interior compared to an elise!

     

    Hopefully Porsche will do something like this someday.

    A little mid-engined sportscar with 250-300 hp and around 1000 kg, placed below the Boxster in the product range, was considered by Porsche in 2011 but that idea was discarded.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Neuroguitarist:

    A little mid-engined sportscar with 250-300 hp and around 1000 kg, placed below the Boxster in the product range, was considered by Porsche in 2011 but that idea was discarded.

    Won't happen...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:
    Neuroguitarist:

    A little mid-engined sportscar with 250-300 hp and around 1000 kg, placed below the Boxster in the product range, was considered by Porsche in 2011 but that idea was discarded.

    Won't happen...

    And what do you think of the idea of an more livable, high-quality Elise-opponent by Porsche? Smiley

    That would be more of a real sportscar and thus carry more of the original Porsche-spirit and heritage than i.e. the Macan.

    Cayman and Boxster have become very grown up, luxurious and are closer on the 991s heels than ever (which is a good thing). But that evolution created room for something like this.

    Just like BMWs Z2 (coming next year) below the Z4.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Terrible. Lotus is a failed company, so why follow in their footsteps? The world has spoken time and time again, and people don't want 800kg cars with 250hp, they want 1500kg cars with 600hp. There is no replacement for power when it comes to cars. They just cannot be made light enough to where you can cut power that much.

    Modern technology has made it so even relative heavy cars can handle extremely well, however there are no electronics that are gonna make 250hp any more potent.

    It's also ugly, but I guess that's subjective.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    price tag in Italy 48.000 Euro, which for what you get is a super price in my opinion...

     

    really not bad, if we where like 10 years ago in Italy this car would have been a great succes here, today nobody thinks about cars over here


    --

    993 c2


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    wedouglas:

    The world has spoken time and time again, and people don't want 800kg cars with 250hp, they want 1500kg cars with 600hp. There is no replacement for power when it comes to cars. They just cannot be made light enough to where you can cut power that much.

    I would guess that you have spent very little time in such a car, particularly at a racetrack.  My little 911 has specs like that and regularly laps much more powerful (and heavier) cars like GT3, ZR1. etc.  And cost of brakes and tires is a small fraction.  Don't knock it til you've tried it...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Grant:
    wedouglas:

    The world has spoken time and time again, and people don't want 800kg cars with 250hp, they want 1500kg cars with 600hp. There is no replacement for power when it comes to cars. They just cannot be made light enough to where you can cut power that much.

    I would guess that you have spent very little time in such a car, particularly at a racetrack.  My little 911 has specs like that and regularly laps much more powerful (and heavier) cars like GT3, ZR1. etc.  And cost of brakes and tires is a small fraction.  Don't knock it til you've tried it...

    SmileySmileySmileySmileySmiley


    --
    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Cute car, reminds me to the Lotus! 

    Not sure if the price is to high for it?


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

     


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Latest rumor is that Audi might be buying Alfa....


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather (Canada)
    1991 BMW 318i Brilliantrot/Black Leather (Germany)

    Ex: '89 525i, '74 280E, '87 325is, '86 325e, '05 FF, '85.5 944

    
    

    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Atzporsche:

    Latest rumor is that Audi might be buying Alfa....

    That would be great (and have VW drop Seat in the process).


    --

    911 Club Coupe, 993 4S Riviera Blau, 12' Audi S4 Avant


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    m4ever:
    Atzporsche:

    Latest rumor is that Audi might be buying Alfa....

    That would be great (and have VW drop Seat in the process).

    Ya but I imagine Seat being quite lucrative for the VW Group. Also, their models clean out the old parts shelves of A4 etc..


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather (Canada)
    1991 BMW 318i Brilliantrot/Black Leather (Germany)

    Ex: '89 525i, '74 280E, '87 325is, '86 325e, '05 FF, '85.5 944

    
    

    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Grant:
    wedouglas:

    The world has spoken time and time again, and people don't want 800kg cars with 250hp, they want 1500kg cars with 600hp. There is no replacement for power when it comes to cars. They just cannot be made light enough to where you can cut power that much.

    I would guess that you have spent very little time in such a car, particularly at a racetrack.  My little 911 has specs like that and regularly laps much more powerful (and heavier) cars like GT3, ZR1. etc.  And cost of brakes and tires is a small fraction.  Don't knock it til you've tried it...


    I'm talking street cars. I don't doubt that really light, cheap cars are great for track use, but when it comes to 99% of users, they want power because the lightness isn't very useful on public roads. Unless you take the chance of using an entire public road to yourself and crossing into the oncoming lane, I don't think there are many roads where having a super light car really makes much of a difference.

    Even in the event that a lighter car is able to pretty much match the higher power, heavier car, people still go for the powerful car. Outside of a race track, I think people would rather make up for the lightness with power rather than make up for the power with lightness.

    If they people wanted these cars, Ferrari and Porche and everyone and their brother would be making them. I'm sure Ferrari would love to sell you an even more barebones car with even higher margins. But they aren't. The market has spoken. Everyone talks about how light and fun a Lotus is, yet Lotus is about to go out of business.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    My car is 1,890 pounds, totally street legal and great on the road - especially if you're lucky to have great driving roads like I do in Colorado.  It would not be nearly as fun on an Interstate, but then no sports car would be, imo...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Grant:

    My car is 1,890 pounds, totally street legal and great on the road - especially if you're lucky to have great driving roads like I do in Colorado.  It would not be nearly as fun on an Interstate, but then no sports car would be, imo...


    But I bet a 458 or 12C would be just as good on the road. My point is that while power can often make up for heaviness when it comes to lap times, lightness can only make up for power so much. I'd say that under most street driving conditions, the roads and turns are such that a high powered car is going to be faster over them and not necessarily any less fun.

    Then consider that in order to have a light car you have to ditch a heck of a lot of the other stuff, and the proposition becomes less appealing. The GTR and tons of other modern cars have proven that heavier cars that have all the bells and whistles can be just as fast as lighter cars with the right technology and enough power.

    This IMO is why no one wants to buy bare bones, light cars. I'd rather just push the power up to 600-700, give me a bunch of the latest and greatest technology, and an interior that I can sit comfortably in with all the best amenities.

    Lighter is always nice, but there are limits to how useful it is. We'll find out soon just how light a car needs to be when we see the P1, 918, and F70 performance results. These cars are like 3000lbs at the minimum I think, and I bet they blow the doors off even the lightest cars out there.


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Much easier and more fun to fling a light car sideways through the corners - much less momentum to the rear end lets you make more fluid corrections and no power steering can approach the feel and feedback of a manual rack (or manual brake master cylinder).

    You must give it a try!


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    a lot of negative attitude towards this car on this forum!  interesting to see how the "real" consumer view this car.

     

    I had high hopes for this car when the concept came out.... but now...i think it's fugly, esp the interior.   the market has changed.   it seems stupid to put out a new car with similar philosophy as the Elise, ie, light weight, but sh*t engine.  

    and I the Elise/Exige drives (and looks) much better.... so what's the appeal of this?

     

    I much rather get a BMW 1M or A45 for similar money.  at least they are reliable.


    --

    BMW 1 M + C63. 



    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    I don't know to what extent the spec sheet is translated into on the road performance, but I find the design too toy-like.

    I wouldn't go as far as to call it cartoonish, but I don't like it.

     

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Colin Chapman would love it!


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Nice that in this day and age of regulated safety and emissions ,  some companies can still produce a mass market  under 2000 lb sports vehicle ( not counting those Brit open wheel looking toys with license plates ) that follows the Chapman directive of " adding lightness " from the start ,  like Elise, 4C and the original NA and coming ND Miata / Alfa Spider  , the latter which is the car I am most looking forward to of any announced in the past decades, as my first and still favorite sports car from nearly  40 yrs ago was an agile sub -2000 pound Italian 2 seater sports car, so this could bring everything full circle for me !


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    MKW:

    Nice that in this day and age of regulated safety and emissions ,  some companies can still produce a mass market  under 2000 lb sports vehicle ( not counting those Brit open wheel looking toys with license plates ) that follows the Chapman directive of " adding lightness " from the start ,  like Elise, 4C and the original NA and coming ND Miata / Alfa Spider  , the latter which is the car I am most looking forward to of any announced in the past decades, as my first and still favorite sports car from nearly  40 yrs ago was an agile sub -2000 pound Italian 2 seater sports car, so this could bring everything full circle for me !

    What's weird about the 4C is, conceptually, it resembles the Pontiac Fiero from the 1980s, from its space frame to smc body panels.  Of course, the Alfa is a higher performance, and, one hopes, a built vehicle.  


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    The mid engined 4C holds no interest for me. i am waiting for the front engined Alfa Spider , and particularly because it will be built reliably in Hiroshima , Japan on same assemly line and be based on the next gen Miata coming in 18 mos, which itself is to return to its simpler and lighter roots like the 1989 version. 

    I predict a trend the next 5-10 years as relatively healthier baby boomers get older and look at financially planning and budgeting  for decades of daily living and health expenses after retirement , for an explosion in sales in less expensive, well built , reliable, lightweight, lower powered,  2 seat sports cars .

     These " been there done that"  buyers like me will leave the internet bench race boasting  " road cars " that will do zero to 60 in under 2 seconds and run Mulholland Drive  faster than past full on race cars for the XBox aged crowd. 

     

    Porsche will have nothing in  their line up like this unless they sign on to use the R4 platform for a true tiny 550 Spyder heir !


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    Almost two months ago, I subscribed to an email service for potential customers who want to order one of the first cars in Germany. I was curious if I would get an allocation and I could decide afterwards what I do with it.

    Haven't heard a peep from Alfa Romeo since then...

    Case closed.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: Alfa Romeo 4C

    RC:

    Almost two months ago, I subscribed to an email service for potential customers who want to order one of the first cars in Germany. I was curious if I would get an allocation and I could decide afterwards what I do with it.

    Haven't heard a peep from Alfa Romeo since then...

    Case closed.

    The recent photographs from the 4C assembly line in the Maserati factory indicates that this car is a very low volume production.  This could also be why the headlamp designed changes significany, as the production model would have lower tooling costs than the prototype. This car is another halo model that will fail to sell the more mass volume Alfa Romeo products. 


     
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