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    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Good for you. I returned my 2019 dual motor white for a 2020 Performance black black black. I like the new wheels. Will leave the chrome but heavy window tint. Bang for the buck is awesome. Autopilot is certainly hands on presently but on long boring KS drives it is flawless and a life saver. 
     


     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Actually the Model 3 compares well to the Taycan. But the Taycan has less tech, safety, room, range or cost. Not to mention it is cluttered on the inside. The average model3 owner will have just as much fun or more driving than the Taycan owner. IMHO, for the savings one could go out to dinner every day.  

    Comparing to the Model S is really not fair since it has free supercharging  - imagine that Dodge Hellcat with free gas and cheap insurance.  
    Not to mention those over the air updates and constant improvement to charging speed, super charger network, and self driving.  I don’t see a Porsche Taycan doing any of those things.  It is a Porsche with an electric motor.  You guys are taking for granted that there will be no recalls, battery issues, motor failures, or even slow charger network construction.  I get it’s a Porsche and it looks nice.  But it sounds like LV purse vs Michael Kors. I’m a car guy not a purse guy.  I have owned tons of 911s and all the repair bills would pay for several model 3 performance cars.  All repairs for parts the Tesla does not have.  As economies of scale allow for better quality I can see Tesla might even produce superior quality cars to Porsche.  Just like some Audi’s are built better than Rolls used to be.  Tesla has the most modern factories and tooling.  Quality was not a top priority at first but I doubt it will not improve rapidly. Review the latest  Bloomberg quality survey results  

    And these are the reasons Tesla does not have a marketing department or pushy salespeople.  None of what I state is wrong or even in dispute.  I’m a car guy.   A huge percentage of us car guys have seen the light.  Proud to not be engulfed in groupthink and stand apart.  

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    996FourEss:

    Btw Re the autonomous driving, in the Model 3 one slightly frightening phenomenon was that we were driving on the highway Zurich to Basel and the road maintenance guys were trimming bushes on the side of the road. To warn about it they set up mobile warning barriers (fixed ones ) in the shoulder lane on the right. Think of a scaffold barrier. So we tested the auto pilot and even though these barriers covered the whole shoulder lane, the auto pilot did not pick them up. I dont think the system is ready for real-time to be honest. 

    That's why there are these deadly accidents with Tesla's from time to time. If the driver thinks the "auto pilot" can drive on its own the risk is huge Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Leawood911:

    Actually the Model 3 compares well to the Taycan. But the Taycan has less tech, safety, room, range or cost. Not to mention it is cluttered on the inside. The average model3 owner will have just as much fun or more driving than the Taycan owner. IMHO, for the savings one could go out to dinner every day.  

     

     

    Tesla 3 is a cheap and good car. Taycan is a high-end product. If you can afford a Taycan you will never consider a Tesla 3 Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Leawood911:

    Actually the Model 3 compares well to the Taycan.

    just as long as you realise that is only only in your mind... otherwise you will be very frustrated with other people's actual views of cars in two different classes, ethos, and pricetags...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Given my v recent experience with the 992, 850 and teslas and having to make a final decision I actually don’t think the Taycan will be that that special. Not for the price it will cost. The interior if like the 992 will be a disappointment. I hated the seats in the 992. And the interior materials weren’t that great. The bmw 850 are def a step above.  The electronics def aren’t better than the tesla or even 850. Probably maybe on par. Do I need to round a race track - no. It would be my daily driver. Just a very expensive one. So I am buying into a brand basically. Well I have my GT3 for that. And will get the next one.  Brands going forward will be a major selling point. But the prices are getting way too high.


    --

    Tesla Model S P100d & Model X P90D & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. Tesla Model 3 Performance on order. 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    MKSGR:
    Leawood911:

    Actually the Model 3 compares well to the Taycan. But the Taycan has less tech, safety, room, range or cost. Not to mention it is cluttered on the inside. The average model3 owner will have just as much fun or more driving than the Taycan owner. IMHO, for the savings one could go out to dinner every day.  

     

     

    Tesla 3 is a cheap and good car. Taycan is a high-end product. If you can afford a Taycan you will never consider a Tesla 3 Smiley

    And then. There is me. You have no idea. Not all rich people are suckers. Some got that way being smart. Smiley
    nice insult try though. Kind of a reverse class warfare.  Like I said the Tesla build quality shows signs of surpassing the old timers like Porsche. As though Porsche is anything other than overpriced in the first place. 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Carlos from Spain:
    Leawood911:

    Actually the Model 3 compares well to the Taycan.

    just as long as you realise that is only only in your mind... otherwise you will be very frustrated with other people's actual views of cars in two different classes, ethos, and pricetags...

    Specs and feature are fine by me. In my mind is okay. There are millions like me just don’t put us in some marginal group for our opinion. Thanks for that.   Cheers 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    MKSGR:
    996FourEss:

    Btw Re the autonomous driving, in the Model 3 one slightly frightening phenomenon was that we were driving on the highway Zurich to Basel and the road maintenance guys were trimming bushes on the side of the road. To warn about it they set up mobile warning barriers (fixed ones ) in the shoulder lane on the right. Think of a scaffold barrier. So we tested the auto pilot and even though these barriers covered the whole shoulder lane, the auto pilot did not pick them up. I dont think the system is ready for real-time to be honest. 

    That's why there are these deadly accidents with Tesla's from time to time. If the driver thinks the "auto pilot" can drive on its own the risk is huge Smiley

    Here are the stats. Accident rates for driving with autopilot - one accident per 4 million miles. Others one every 
    half million miles.  It is not getting better. There is a reason my insurance send down from my Azera even though it cost half as much and the Tesla is crazy nuts fast by comparison.  While some have been killed using auto steer wrong thousands have been killed doing it themselves. I don’t think you understand the shift happened. You will figure it out. Harder if all you do is seek confirmation of your bias. 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    EnglishManInNY:

    Given my v recent experience with the 992, 850 and teslas and having to make a final decision I actually don’t think the Taycan will be that that special. Not for the price it will cost. The interior if like the 992 will be a disappointment. I hated the seats in the 992. And the interior materials weren’t that great. The bmw 850 are def a step above.  The electronics def aren’t better than the tesla or even 850. Probably maybe on par. Do I need to round a race track - no. It would be my daily driver. Just a very expensive one. So I am buying into a brand basically. Well I have my GT3 for that. And will get the next one.  Brands going forward will be a major selling point. But the prices are getting way too high.

    The difference is mostly in how it feels and drives. There will be huge gap between Taycan and Tesla - as there is between 850 and 992. Very different qualities in terms of driver involvement Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Leawood911:
    MKSGR:
    Leawood911:

    Actually the Model 3 compares well to the Taycan. But the Taycan has less tech, safety, room, range or cost. Not to mention it is cluttered on the inside. The average model3 owner will have just as much fun or more driving than the Taycan owner. IMHO, for the savings one could go out to dinner every day.  

     

     

    Tesla 3 is a cheap and good car. Taycan is a high-end product. If you can afford a Taycan you will never consider a Tesla 3 Smiley

    And then. There is me. You have no idea. Not all rich people are suckers. Some got that way being smart. Smiley
    nice insult try though. Kind of a reverse class warfare.  Like I said the Tesla build quality shows signs of surpassing the old timers like Porsche. As though Porsche is anything other than overpriced in the first place. 

    It's not an insult it is the reality. The Tesla 3 is a much cheaper car. Different class for different demand Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Leawood911:
    MKSGR:
    996FourEss:

    Btw Re the autonomous driving, in the Model 3 one slightly frightening phenomenon was that we were driving on the highway Zurich to Basel and the road maintenance guys were trimming bushes on the side of the road. To warn about it they set up mobile warning barriers (fixed ones ) in the shoulder lane on the right. Think of a scaffold barrier. So we tested the auto pilot and even though these barriers covered the whole shoulder lane, the auto pilot did not pick them up. I dont think the system is ready for real-time to be honest. 

    That's why there are these deadly accidents with Tesla's from time to time. If the driver thinks the "auto pilot" can drive on its own the risk is huge Smiley

    Here are the stats. Accident rates for driving with autopilot - one accident per 4 million miles. Others one every 
    half million miles.  It is not getting better. There is a reason my insurance send down from my Azera even though it cost half as much and the Tesla is crazy nuts fast by comparison.  While some have been killed using auto steer wrong thousands have been killed doing it themselves. I don’t think you understand the shift happened. You will figure it out. Harder if all you do is seek confirmation of your bias. 

    You should be careful when using the "autopilot". The system (with it's very limited number of sensors) is just not an "autopilot". It cannot drive you safely. It is a fact Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Leawood911:

    Actually the Model 3 compares well to the Taycan. But the Taycan has less tech, safety, room, range or cost. Not to mention it is cluttered on the inside. The average model3 owner will have just as much fun or more driving than the Taycan owner. IMHO, for the savings one could go out to dinner every day.  

    Comparing to the Model S is really not fair since it has free supercharging  - imagine that Dodge Hellcat with free gas and cheap insurance.  
    Not to mention those over the air updates and constant improvement to charging speed, super charger network, and self driving.  I don’t see a Porsche Taycan doing any of those things.  It is a Porsche with an electric motor.  You guys are taking for granted that there will be no recalls, battery issues, motor failures, or even slow charger network construction.  I get it’s a Porsche and it looks nice.  But it sounds like LV purse vs Michael Kors. I’m a car guy not a purse guy.  I have owned tons of 911s and all the repair bills would pay for several model 3 performance cars.  All repairs for parts the Tesla does not have.  As economies of scale allow for better quality I can see Tesla might even produce superior quality cars to Porsche.  Just like some Audi’s are built better than Rolls used to be.  Tesla has the most modern factories and tooling.  Quality was not a top priority at first but I doubt it will not improve rapidly. Review the latest  Bloomberg quality survey results  

    And these are the reasons Tesla does not have a marketing department or pushy salespeople.  None of what I state is wrong or even in dispute.  I’m a car guy.   A huge percentage of us car guys have seen the light.  Proud to not be engulfed in groupthink and stand apart.  

     

    Is a Model 3 really bigger than a Taycan? Have not seen a Taycan live but the Model 3 ain’t that big....


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Carlos from Spain:
    RC:
    Carlos from Spain:
    RC:

    The moment that Tesla S drove around with a huge wing and track tires, this whole record run became a joke. Not even sure why we're still discussing this scam. yes

    Because dove don't get the joke Smiley

    Smiley

    Sorry, auto correct... It's, some don't get the joke in it and took it seriously indecision

    Ah, OK...makes more sense now. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    MKSGR:
    Leawood911:
    MKSGR:
    996FourEss:

    Btw Re the autonomous driving, in the Model 3 one slightly frightening phenomenon was that we were driving on the highway Zurich to Basel and the road maintenance guys were trimming bushes on the side of the road. To warn about it they set up mobile warning barriers (fixed ones ) in the shoulder lane on the right. Think of a scaffold barrier. So we tested the auto pilot and even though these barriers covered the whole shoulder lane, the auto pilot did not pick them up. I dont think the system is ready for real-time to be honest. 

    That's why there are these deadly accidents with Tesla's from time to time. If the driver thinks the "auto pilot" can drive on its own the risk is huge Smiley

    Here are the stats. Accident rates for driving with autopilot - one accident per 4 million miles. Others one every 
    half million miles.  It is not getting better. There is a reason my insurance send down from my Azera even though it cost half as much and the Tesla is crazy nuts fast by comparison.  While some have been killed using auto steer wrong thousands have been killed doing it themselves. I don’t think you understand the shift happened. You will figure it out. Harder if all you do is seek confirmation of your bias. 

    You should be careful when using the "autopilot". The system (with it's very limited number of sensors) is just not an "autopilot". It cannot drive you safely. It is a fact Smiley

    In the US, the roads are different and speeds are not that high, so the "autopilot" works quite well, even if it shouldn't be trusted completely. In Europe, things look different. We have smaller roads, less "straight roads" and higher speeds.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    MKSGR:
    Leawood911:

    Actually the Model 3 compares well to the Taycan. But the Taycan has less tech, safety, room, range or cost. Not to mention it is cluttered on the inside. The average model3 owner will have just as much fun or more driving than the Taycan owner. IMHO, for the savings one could go out to dinner every day.  

     

     

    Tesla 3 is a cheap and good car. Taycan is a high-end product. If you can afford a Taycan you will never consider a Tesla 3 Smiley

    Not only is this statement arrogant, it is factually wrong. You’re at grasping at straws and making you silly. There is no way to justify the price difference considering what both cars have to offer. Admit it and move on by acknowledging those who are buying the Taycan are doing so only because it’s produced by Porsche. 


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Up next: Comparing Taycan vs 2008 Tesla Roadster. Teslas are clearly better Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    A couple of days ago a Tesla caught fire close to where I live. According to the driver he wanted to find something in the glovebox, activated AP before reaching over, and suddenly realized that the car was driving on the wrong lane. To get the car back he heavily turned the steering wheel, lost control and hit a tree. I'm not a a fan of AP but it's getting better with every version. Still, one should never rely on it, otherwise it will kill you or others.

    Article is in German, sorry. They claim that the battery did not catch fire (which is more than amazing) and that they put the car in a 11000l water tank to let it cool down. There are some more interesting information in the article, like firefighters expecting more fires of houses and garages from malfunctioning chargers. 

    https://www.ovb-online.de/weltspiegel/bayern/brennendes-elektroauto-koessener-feuerwehr-rueckt-riesen-badewanne-einsatz-13195168...


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    There are some very informative YouTube video presentations discussing how autopilot is engineered and developed. The tech is amazing and constantly evolving. Shortly the best ring time will be on autopilot.  Looking forward to rides in the Tesla ring taxi. Having a human drive you will be insane. Time will change. There are many such example in life already you just don’t realize it. 
    Teslas plan for self driving is to turn your care into a revenue source. Letting it be a taxi while you don’t need it. 
    by the way. I hate more than anything to be seen in my 911 which is why I don’t wash it. I like how it drives and put up with the rest. So for me to buy a Taycan and have less tech and features to look like a rich guy make zero sense. I get that this is important to others. Then again I learned how to impress in more substantial ways long ago, like high school. Pussy is everywhere at my age. 😎 I love driving and saving at the same time. Cheers


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:
    MKSGR:
    Leawood911:

    Actually the Model 3 compares well to the Taycan. But the Taycan has less tech, safety, room, range or cost. Not to mention it is cluttered on the inside. The average model3 owner will have just as much fun or more driving than the Taycan owner. IMHO, for the savings one could go out to dinner every day.  

     

     

    Tesla 3 is a cheap and good car. Taycan is a high-end product. If you can afford a Taycan you will never consider a Tesla 3 Smiley

    Not only is this statement arrogant, it is factually wrong. You’re at grasping at straws and making you silly. There is no way to justify the price difference considering what both cars have to offer. Admit it and move on by acknowledging those who are buying the Taycan are doing so only because it’s produced by Porsche. 

    This from someone who bought a GT3"RS” for driving solely on US streets a few thousand miles a year Smiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:
    MKSGR:
    Leawood911:

    Actually the Model 3 compares well to the Taycan. But the Taycan has less tech, safety, room, range or cost. Not to mention it is cluttered on the inside. The average model3 owner will have just as much fun or more driving than the Taycan owner. IMHO, for the savings one could go out to dinner every day.  

     

     

    Tesla 3 is a cheap and good car. Taycan is a high-end product. If you can afford a Taycan you will never consider a Tesla 3 Smiley

    Not only is this statement arrogant, it is factually wrong. You’re at grasping at straws and making you silly. There is no way to justify the price difference considering what both cars have to offer. Admit it and move on by acknowledging those who are buying the Taycan are doing so only because it’s produced by Porsche. 

    I wouldn't even compare a Tesla S to a Taycan... I've sat in a Taycan and drove it. This car is miles ahead of the Tesla S when it comes to build quality, design and driving feel. Autonomous driving stuff is a different story, never was really interested in this stuff and never compared (but I guess the Tesla is a bit ahead of the game right now).

    Design...haptics...driving dynamics/steering feel, even the interior smell...the Taycan is not in the same league with the Tesla S, let alone the Tesla 3. Sorry to say that. Maybe it will change with a next gen Tesla S whenever it comes but right now...nope...Tesla is not in the same league. Schmoell will drive the Taycan soon and since he owns a Tesla S, he will confirm what I said.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:
    MKSGR:
    Leawood911:
    MKSGR:
    996FourEss:

    Btw Re the autonomous driving, in the Model 3 one slightly frightening phenomenon was that we were driving on the highway Zurich to Basel and the road maintenance guys were trimming bushes on the side of the road. To warn about it they set up mobile warning barriers (fixed ones ) in the shoulder lane on the right. Think of a scaffold barrier. So we tested the auto pilot and even though these barriers covered the whole shoulder lane, the auto pilot did not pick them up. I dont think the system is ready for real-time to be honest. 

    That's why there are these deadly accidents with Tesla's from time to time. If the driver thinks the "auto pilot" can drive on its own the risk is huge Smiley

    Here are the stats. Accident rates for driving with autopilot - one accident per 4 million miles. Others one every 
    half million miles.  It is not getting better. There is a reason my insurance send down from my Azera even though it cost half as much and the Tesla is crazy nuts fast by comparison.  While some have been killed using auto steer wrong thousands have been killed doing it themselves. I don’t think you understand the shift happened. You will figure it out. Harder if all you do is seek confirmation of your bias. 

    You should be careful when using the "autopilot". The system (with it's very limited number of sensors) is just not an "autopilot". It cannot drive you safely. It is a fact Smiley

    In the US, the roads are different and speeds are not that high, so the "autopilot" works quite well, even if it shouldn't be trusted completely. In Europe, things look different. We have smaller roads, less "straight roads" and higher speeds.

    Last time I used an „autopilot“ in the US I had to correct very quickly by hand... The car was about to exit the speedway into a side lane... Very dangerous.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:
    MKSGR:
    Leawood911:

    Actually the Model 3 compares well to the Taycan. But the Taycan has less tech, safety, room, range or cost. Not to mention it is cluttered on the inside. The average model3 owner will have just as much fun or more driving than the Taycan owner. IMHO, for the savings one could go out to dinner every day.  

     

     

    Tesla 3 is a cheap and good car. Taycan is a high-end product. If you can afford a Taycan you will never consider a Tesla 3 Smiley

    Not only is this statement arrogant, it is factually wrong. You’re at grasping at straws and making you silly. There is no way to justify the price difference considering what both cars have to offer. Admit it and move on by acknowledging those who are buying the Taycan are doing so only because it’s produced by Porsche. 

    That is your opinion, trying to justify that you don‘t need money to play the real game??? I repeat: the Tesla is cheap and mostly for those who would not spend the money on the high-end product. 


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:
    nberry:
    MKSGR:
    Leawood911:

    Actually the Model 3 compares well to the Taycan. But the Taycan has less tech, safety, room, range or cost. Not to mention it is cluttered on the inside. The average model3 owner will have just as much fun or more driving than the Taycan owner. IMHO, for the savings one could go out to dinner every day.  

     

     

    Tesla 3 is a cheap and good car. Taycan is a high-end product. If you can afford a Taycan you will never consider a Tesla 3 Smiley

    Not only is this statement arrogant, it is factually wrong. You’re at grasping at straws and making you silly. There is no way to justify the price difference considering what both cars have to offer. Admit it and move on by acknowledging those who are buying the Taycan are doing so only because it’s produced by Porsche. 

    I wouldn't even compare a Tesla S to a Taycan... I've sat in a Taycan and drove it. This car is miles ahead of the Tesla S when it comes to build quality, design and driving feel. Autonomous driving stuff is a different story, never was really interested in this stuff and never compared (but I guess the Tesla is a bit ahead of the game right now).

    Design...haptics...driving dynamics/steering feel, even the interior smell...the Taycan is not in the same league with the Tesla S, let alone the Tesla 3. Sorry to say that. Maybe it will change with a next gen Tesla S whenever it comes but right now...nope...Tesla is not in the same league. Schmoell will drive the Taycan soon and since he owns a Tesla S, he will confirm what I said.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    Maybe Nick needs a strong coffee from Starbucks to get a clearer image  Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    You rented a Tesla? My last US rental was a Range Rover Sport SVR. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    RC:

    You rented a Tesla? My last US rental was a Range Rover Sport SVR. Smiley Smiley

    The influence of some members here is very strong Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    MKSGR:
    nberry:
    MKSGR:
    Leawood911:

    Actually the Model 3 compares well to the Taycan. But the Taycan has less tech, safety, room, range or cost. Not to mention it is cluttered on the inside. The average model3 owner will have just as much fun or more driving than the Taycan owner. IMHO, for the savings one could go out to dinner every day.  

     

     

    Tesla 3 is a cheap and good car. Taycan is a high-end product. If you can afford a Taycan you will never consider a Tesla 3 Smiley

    Not only is this statement arrogant, it is factually wrong. You’re at grasping at straws and making you silly. There is no way to justify the price difference considering what both cars have to offer. Admit it and move on by acknowledging those who are buying the Taycan are doing so only because it’s produced by Porsche. 

    That is your opinion, trying to justify that you don‘t need money to play the real game??? I repeat: the Tesla is cheap and mostly for those who would not spend the money on the high-end product. 

    Our own Whoopsy (Nick) isn't interested in the Taycan and bought an Audi EV for half the price. Can he afford a Taycan?Smiley

    But you're right I may need a Starbucks after reading the European comments regarding the Taycan.Smiley 


    --

    Assume most people are stupid and hope they surprise you.


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    nberry:
    MKSGR:
    nberry:
    MKSGR:
    Leawood911:

    Actually the Model 3 compares well to the Taycan. But the Taycan has less tech, safety, room, range or cost. Not to mention it is cluttered on the inside. The average model3 owner will have just as much fun or more driving than the Taycan owner. IMHO, for the savings one could go out to dinner every day.  

     

     

    Tesla 3 is a cheap and good car. Taycan is a high-end product. If you can afford a Taycan you will never consider a Tesla 3 Smiley

    Not only is this statement arrogant, it is factually wrong. You’re at grasping at straws and making you silly. There is no way to justify the price difference considering what both cars have to offer. Admit it and move on by acknowledging those who are buying the Taycan are doing so only because it’s produced by Porsche. 

    That is your opinion, trying to justify that you don‘t need money to play the real game??? I repeat: the Tesla is cheap and mostly for those who would not spend the money on the high-end product. 

    Our own Whoopsy (Nick) isn't interested in the Taycan and bought an Audi EV for half the price. Can he afford a Taycan?Smiley

    But you're right I may need a Starbucks after reading the European comments regarding the Taycan.Smiley 

    Nick is not interested in ev cars at all. He is just driving the etron to get through traffic and to parking lots easier. He says the car (like Tesla) is nothing special. That is something easy to understand. Your thoughts are not so easy to understand, to put it mildly Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Leawood911:
    MKSGR:
    996FourEss:

    Btw Re the autonomous driving, in the Model 3 one slightly frightening phenomenon was that we were driving on the highway Zurich to Basel and the road maintenance guys were trimming bushes on the side of the road. To warn about it they set up mobile warning barriers (fixed ones ) in the shoulder lane on the right. Think of a scaffold barrier. So we tested the auto pilot and even though these barriers covered the whole shoulder lane, the auto pilot did not pick them up. I dont think the system is ready for real-time to be honest. 

    That's why there are these deadly accidents with Tesla's from time to time. If the driver thinks the "auto pilot" can drive on its own the risk is huge Smiley

    Here are the stats. Accident rates for driving with autopilot - one accident per 4 million miles. Others one every 
    half million miles.  It is not getting better. There is a reason my insurance send down from my Azera even though it cost half as much and the Tesla is crazy nuts fast by comparison.  While some have been killed using auto steer wrong thousands have been killed doing it themselves. I don’t think you understand the shift happened. You will figure it out. Harder if all you do is seek confirmation of your bias. 

    The experience in Norway suggests a rather different experience, with Tesla models reporting an accident rate of 20.4% (i.e. one in five) in 2018, compared to 13.5% for all EVs and 9% for internal combustion engines... Smiley

    E19D9915-8913-4A8A-8AB5-A7F9F9969DB9.jpeg

    17711435-9219-410C-9C1B-514E935224D1.jpeg

    ...keep in mind that Tesla’s own stats on autopilot exclude incidents where autopilot gives up, or is disabled by human intervention shortly before or after impact!?! Smiley

    Please drive carefully, particularly if you are expecting autopilot not to crash... Smiley


    Re: Nürburgring - Tesla vs. Taycan

    Perhaps the Tesla's drivers do not have the skills to drive these cars, or the statistics are fake media!. Something must be wrong, cannot be the Tesla's themselfs these cars are the best the world has ever seen. smiley


     
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