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    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    Bilal Siddiqui said:
    ... these cars WILL do 200mph+, for other users on here, thats an everyday thing, since you're used to doing those speeds in fast cars, doing it in a comfortable Mercedes takes some acceptance, even from some speed enthusiasts



    Remember; Downforce = Safety

    Comfort may be an illusion.

    The PERFECT car for Bilal !

    Steering wheels and brake pedals are for wimps ! Bring on that weasel car , the Enzo .

    The PERFECT car for Bilal !

    Steering wheels and brake pedals are for wimps ! Bring on that weasel car , the Enzo .

    Re: The PERFECT car for Bilal !

    Now you see how important horsepower is!

    Re: The PERFECT car for Bilal !

    Now you see how important horsepower is!

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Great thread and explanation by Carlos
    I was "driving" my tuned 993tt alongside my friend in his SL55 in wet conditions on dual carriageways with less than level road surfaces - Speeds up to 240kph - I was fighting the wheel and could definately feel what was going on making it exilarating but also ultimately limiting how fast I would take it. In contrast my friend (as he told me later) was tuning in his stereo driving one handed eventually I bottled out and he skimmed past me at 250+kph - had he any idea how close he may have been to disaster ?

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Great thread and explanation by Carlos
    I was "driving" my tuned 993tt alongside my friend in his SL55 in wet conditions on dual carriageways with less than level road surfaces - Speeds up to 240kph - I was fighting the wheel and could definately feel what was going on making it exilarating but also ultimately limiting how fast I would take it. In contrast my friend (as he told me later) was tuning in his stereo driving one handed eventually I bottled out and he skimmed past me at 250+kph - had he any idea how close he may have been to disaster ?

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Not really.

    AMG tests all its vehicles and determines a safe VMAX for each at Nardo, and Papenburg.

    Is indeed Mercedes models that weigh two tons and are aerodynamic have a tendency to take flight now and again, are AMG stupid for putting 500bhp in their cars>?

    And setting a VMAX limit for each model at 186mph?

    Not to mention the 193mph that RC got out of his former E55?

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Not really.

    AMG tests all its vehicles and determines a safe VMAX for each at Nardo, and Papenburg.

    Is indeed Mercedes models that weigh two tons and are aerodynamic have a tendency to take flight now and again, are AMG stupid for putting 500bhp in their cars>?

    And setting a VMAX limit for each model at 186mph?

    Not to mention the 193mph that RC got out of his former E55?

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    Bilal Siddiqui said:
    Is indeed Mercedes models that weigh two tons and are aerodynamic have a tendency to take flight now and again, are AMG stupid for putting 500bhp in their cars>?



    I agree Bilal, they are not stupid, quite the opposite. For one, HP sells, even if its just for bragging rights in some cases. But also 500HP allows for effortless highway traffic overtaking and cruising in "Mercedes confort" which is very valuable in this segment. So there is some logic to it even if they are not capable of handeling all those ponies in sporty driving like a Porsche would, they can cope in regular driving which is what the typical buyer of this type of car will do instead of exploiting its sporting abilities on their way to work like a P-car buyer. As long as you don't think you are buying a sportcar and try give it that use.

    Quote:

    And setting a VMAX limit for each model at 186mph?




    I don't know about other models, but in this one and S65/CL65 in particular, one big reason for the speed limiting it at 250kph is because the tires are not able to be rated for higher speeds in this 2 ton brute. Doing 186mph on this thing would be like jumping off the Everest in a tire tube... you pretty much just hang on for the ride cause you ain't the one deciding were to go

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    Bilal Siddiqui said:
    Is indeed Mercedes models that weigh two tons and are aerodynamic have a tendency to take flight now and again, are AMG stupid for putting 500bhp in their cars>?



    I agree Bilal, they are not stupid, quite the opposite. For one, HP sells, even if its just for bragging rights in some cases. But also 500HP allows for effortless highway traffic overtaking and cruising in "Mercedes confort" which is very valuable in this segment. So there is some logic to it even if they are not capable of handeling all those ponies in sporty driving like a Porsche would, they can cope in regular driving which is what the typical buyer of this type of car will do instead of exploiting its sporting abilities on their way to work like a P-car buyer. As long as you don't think you are buying a sportcar and try give it that use.

    Quote:

    And setting a VMAX limit for each model at 186mph?




    I don't know about other models, but in this one and S65/CL65 in particular, one big reason for the speed limiting it at 250kph is because the tires are not able to be rated for higher speeds in this 2 ton brute. Doing 186mph on this thing would be like jumping off the Everest in a tire tube... you pretty much just hang on for the ride cause you ain't the one deciding were to go

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    As I said earlier, it takes real driving courage to take a 911 or a supercar to its top speed. The 993 driver is just one example of how one should not always experience speed, even though he may be safer than the SL55 driver, but that driver had no sensation of speed, therefore isn't scared and won't freak out like normal drivers would, and freakin out at those speeds, even though you are glued to the road could cause horrific accidents.

    As for AMG, well they may never be able to take on Porsche simply because of different driving philosophies. Porsche make a bare and raw car, lightweight, go around the ring a million times, and some other heat and arctic testing, and voila you have a Porsche. The image sells while the handling delights.

    AMG have to make do with what Mercedes gives them, and I'm sure ring times are not what Mercedes thinks about when making an S500!

    Then the model is passed on to AMG who have to make do with a car weighing two tons with bad weight distribution, (save the SL55 57:43). It is however remarkable that whatever car AMG has to make go quick, they do overkill and make the car into an automotive g-sled! The Zonda/SLR/SL55/CL65 are just a few examples, ahh, the beauty of torque!

    Plus their customers want a fast luxurious Mercedes, not a car that gives 911 thrills with M5 comfort and practicality. Although AMG would like to satisfy them as well (nurburgring suspension, LSD, Vmax limiter etc,) If AMG were fully "derestricted" I bet they could make some fantastic cars, starting with an SL CSL, which could give a Porsche a run for its money on the ring (a bit optimistic though).

    RC says the new SLK AMG looks promising, and other have said that AMG claims the C55 is their best handling saloon yet! SO things may not be all bad for AMG.

    I don't know about the 65 cars, but 2200kgs and 186mph limiter is a bit dangerous if you ask me, but I do know every V8K model can be ordered with the 186mph limiter, the C32/SLK32 can come with the 175mph limiter, and the upcoming C55/SLK55 will come with a 186mph limiter (possible with that 360 Hp torquey engine, and with 7g tronic which is geared for 210mph whilst redlining 7th, of course it won't reach that speed, but who knows, going skiing down Everest in an SLK55, you may be doing 210mph!


    Or by applying Physics, you will be airborn!

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    As I said earlier, it takes real driving courage to take a 911 or a supercar to its top speed. The 993 driver is just one example of how one should not always experience speed, even though he may be safer than the SL55 driver, but that driver had no sensation of speed, therefore isn't scared and won't freak out like normal drivers would, and freakin out at those speeds, even though you are glued to the road could cause horrific accidents.

    As for AMG, well they may never be able to take on Porsche simply because of different driving philosophies. Porsche make a bare and raw car, lightweight, go around the ring a million times, and some other heat and arctic testing, and voila you have a Porsche. The image sells while the handling delights.

    AMG have to make do with what Mercedes gives them, and I'm sure ring times are not what Mercedes thinks about when making an S500!

    Then the model is passed on to AMG who have to make do with a car weighing two tons with bad weight distribution, (save the SL55 57:43). It is however remarkable that whatever car AMG has to make go quick, they do overkill and make the car into an automotive g-sled! The Zonda/SLR/SL55/CL65 are just a few examples, ahh, the beauty of torque!

    Plus their customers want a fast luxurious Mercedes, not a car that gives 911 thrills with M5 comfort and practicality. Although AMG would like to satisfy them as well (nurburgring suspension, LSD, Vmax limiter etc,) If AMG were fully "derestricted" I bet they could make some fantastic cars, starting with an SL CSL, which could give a Porsche a run for its money on the ring (a bit optimistic though).

    RC says the new SLK AMG looks promising, and other have said that AMG claims the C55 is their best handling saloon yet! SO things may not be all bad for AMG.

    I don't know about the 65 cars, but 2200kgs and 186mph limiter is a bit dangerous if you ask me, but I do know every V8K model can be ordered with the 186mph limiter, the C32/SLK32 can come with the 175mph limiter, and the upcoming C55/SLK55 will come with a 186mph limiter (possible with that 360 Hp torquey engine, and with 7g tronic which is geared for 210mph whilst redlining 7th, of course it won't reach that speed, but who knows, going skiing down Everest in an SLK55, you may be doing 210mph!


    Or by applying Physics, you will be airborn!

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    Bilal Siddiqui said:
    As I said earlier, it takes real driving courage to take a 911 or a supercar to its top speed. The 993 driver is just one example of how one should not always experience speed, even though he may be safer than the SL55 driver, but that driver had no sensation of speed, therefore isn't scared and won't freak out like normal drivers would, and freakin out at those speeds, even though you are glued to the road could cause horrific accidents.



    Hi Bilal,

    I think you would benefit from driving a few thousand miles on autobahnen before leaping to this conclusion.

    Freaking out before the speed becomes too much to deal with is good, not bad. If one gets in over one's head with ease (because there are no speed cues), one is then, by definition, already out of control with no forewarning.

    If one is receiving cues of being "on the edge of control" from an honest car, one is much less likely to increase the apparent source of those cues (speed up).

    A dishonest car that smoothes over all the control cues (or lack of) is doing the neophyte driver no favors at all. In fact, it may be deadly by leading the driver to believe that circumstances are well within the envelope of control when it is not really the case.

    Having no sensation of speed is only a luxury in the case of an educated driver. In the case of a rookie, it is an invitation to a ride in an ambulance (with a variety of possible destinations).

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    Bilal Siddiqui said:
    As I said earlier, it takes real driving courage to take a 911 or a supercar to its top speed. The 993 driver is just one example of how one should not always experience speed, even though he may be safer than the SL55 driver, but that driver had no sensation of speed, therefore isn't scared and won't freak out like normal drivers would, and freakin out at those speeds, even though you are glued to the road could cause horrific accidents.



    Hi Bilal,

    I think you would benefit from driving a few thousand miles on autobahnen before leaping to this conclusion.

    Freaking out before the speed becomes too much to deal with is good, not bad. If one gets in over one's head with ease (because there are no speed cues), one is then, by definition, already out of control with no forewarning.

    If one is receiving cues of being "on the edge of control" from an honest car, one is much less likely to increase the apparent source of those cues (speed up).

    A dishonest car that smoothes over all the control cues (or lack of) is doing the neophyte driver no favors at all. In fact, it may be deadly by leading the driver to believe that circumstances are well within the envelope of control when it is not really the case.

    Having no sensation of speed is only a luxury in the case of an educated driver. In the case of a rookie, it is an invitation to a ride in an ambulance (with a variety of possible destinations).

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    I get a lot more adrenalin rush from doing 80-100kph in the sportquad in the mountain dirt roads trying to bring some order/efficiency out of the constant "out-of-control" sliding/drifting and jumping along trees and cliffs, than doing 200-250kph in the 996 every time I hit the highway, its all about the clues that lets you know whats going on (that, and the fact that 2 weekends ago one of the ridding budies had to be picked up by the ambulance with a clavicle and a couple of ribs broken, lukily no internal organ damage ) and "cages" can really block you of from whats happening outside, some more than others.

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    I get a lot more adrenalin rush from doing 80-100kph in the sportquad in the mountain dirt roads trying to bring some order/efficiency out of the constant "out-of-control" sliding/drifting and jumping along trees and cliffs, than doing 200-250kph in the 996 every time I hit the highway, its all about the clues that lets you know whats going on (that, and the fact that 2 weekends ago one of the ridding budies had to be picked up by the ambulance with a clavicle and a couple of ribs broken, lukily no internal organ damage ) and "cages" can really block you of from whats happening outside, some more than others.

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    The thrill of an AMG car for me personally, comes from annihilating people on the motorway.

    As someone once said:

    "AMG Feel the power of a Mercedes"

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    The thrill of an AMG car for me personally, comes from annihilating people on the motorway.

    As someone once said:

    "AMG Feel the power of a Mercedes"

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    Bilal Siddiqui said:
    "AMG Feel the power of a Mercedes"



    Until the "Ultimate driving machine" starts to leave the "AMG Feel the power of a Mercedes" behind as soon as the straight is over and then comes along "There is no substitute" annihilating both with less HP

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    Bilal Siddiqui said:
    "AMG Feel the power of a Mercedes"



    Until the "Ultimate driving machine" starts to leave the "AMG Feel the power of a Mercedes" behind as soon as the straight is over and then comes along "There is no substitute" annihilating both with less HP

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Well, I don't know about BMW being the ultimate cars to drive, but I do know that ther really is NO substitue for a Porsche!


    As for the autobahn, you never want to mess with someone on their own turf

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Well, I don't know about BMW being the ultimate cars to drive, but I do know that ther really is NO substitue for a Porsche!


    As for the autobahn, you never want to mess with someone on their own turf

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Hi Bilal,

    I think you would benefit from driving a few thousand miles on autobahnen before leaping to this conclusion.

    Freaking out before the speed becomes too much to deal with is good, not bad. If one gets in over one's head with ease (because there are no speed cues), one is then, by definition, already out of control with no forewarning.

    If one is receiving cues of being "on the edge of control" from an honest car, one is much less likely to increase the apparent source of those cues (speed up).

    A dishonest car that smoothes over all the control cues (or lack of) is doing the neophyte driver no favors at all. In fact, it may be deadly by leading the driver to believe that circumstances are well within the envelope of control when it is not really the case.

    Having no sensation of speed is only a luxury in the case of an educated driver. In the case of a rookie, it is an invitation to a ride in an ambulance (with a variety of possible destinations).


    Exactly my point I have maxed at 7100rpm in 6th (approx 325kph) on a straight road which was flat with no cambers and whilst it was obviously exhilarating it felt much safer than the 240kph I referred to before where the car was sending me warning signals which were obviously unavailable to my SL55 driving buddy.

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Hi Bilal,

    I think you would benefit from driving a few thousand miles on autobahnen before leaping to this conclusion.

    Freaking out before the speed becomes too much to deal with is good, not bad. If one gets in over one's head with ease (because there are no speed cues), one is then, by definition, already out of control with no forewarning.

    If one is receiving cues of being "on the edge of control" from an honest car, one is much less likely to increase the apparent source of those cues (speed up).

    A dishonest car that smoothes over all the control cues (or lack of) is doing the neophyte driver no favors at all. In fact, it may be deadly by leading the driver to believe that circumstances are well within the envelope of control when it is not really the case.

    Having no sensation of speed is only a luxury in the case of an educated driver. In the case of a rookie, it is an invitation to a ride in an ambulance (with a variety of possible destinations).


    Exactly my point I have maxed at 7100rpm in 6th (approx 325kph) on a straight road which was flat with no cambers and whilst it was obviously exhilarating it felt much safer than the 240kph I referred to before where the car was sending me warning signals which were obviously unavailable to my SL55 driving buddy.

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Sorry guys, but I do not totally agree with you!

    It is definately right that a communicative car, like the 911, is much more fun to drive fast since you feel connected to the vehicle. Mercedes vehicles in the past decades all felt comparatively slow in high-speed travelling. The upside for this is a less exhausting ride - even if RC states that his E55 was kind of boring to drive fast. A kind of excitement was probably never intended on these cars!

    The 300kph (186mph) limitation on Mercedes cars is because of tire issues. On the other hand it is definately not a bad thing in terms of aerodynamics and engine/drivetrain/suspension and brakes to limit the topspeed to this amount.

    I personally would prefer a Porsche 911 for fast driving because it is more fun - for a long trip through Germany a high-powered Mercedes wouldn't be a wrong idea either. I had difficulties braking on a Autobahn bridge from 250 to 130 kph because of a car moving to the left lane. The SBC on the E-class f***ed up and made the car jump two meters to the side.

    I want to point out that the issue of weight and the imagination of a secure handling can be very false. Absolutely true.

    And left aside all this I would invite anybody who travels beyond 200 kph to put their hand out of the window or sunroof to get an impression of the actual speed! Not the handling on Mercedes is the subject to talk about but the above mentioned false idea of speed. Too many of these drivers misinterpret the car's feedback and believe to be on the safe side. No discussion needed, driving beyond 200kph can be dangerous if you do the wrong thing or something unexpected might happen.
    And RC, I have great respect about your driving experiences but I do have to say that since we are not alone on the Autobahn I do have a certain hesitation going extremely fast. I have certainly done so but as I become older I realize that I should leave a certain safety margin while driving on public streets. Just realize that the braking distance from 250 - 0 kph should be around 220 Meters on a very good car. If I find a traffic jam behind a fast driven Autobahn corner I could imagene not to stop in the given distance.

    We all talk about driving on public streets but I want to addresss to everybody not to gain high-performance driving on the public streets. I prefer to do so on racetracks, where the boys separate from the men. I'm still a boy, haha...!

    Now this was quite a long post, but I hope you enjoyed it!
    Greetings!

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Sorry guys, but I do not totally agree with you!

    It is definately right that a communicative car, like the 911, is much more fun to drive fast since you feel connected to the vehicle. Mercedes vehicles in the past decades all felt comparatively slow in high-speed travelling. The upside for this is a less exhausting ride - even if RC states that his E55 was kind of boring to drive fast. A kind of excitement was probably never intended on these cars!

    The 300kph (186mph) limitation on Mercedes cars is because of tire issues. On the other hand it is definately not a bad thing in terms of aerodynamics and engine/drivetrain/suspension and brakes to limit the topspeed to this amount.

    I personally would prefer a Porsche 911 for fast driving because it is more fun - for a long trip through Germany a high-powered Mercedes wouldn't be a wrong idea either. I had difficulties braking on a Autobahn bridge from 250 to 130 kph because of a car moving to the left lane. The SBC on the E-class f***ed up and made the car jump two meters to the side.

    I want to point out that the issue of weight and the imagination of a secure handling can be very false. Absolutely true.

    And left aside all this I would invite anybody who travels beyond 200 kph to put their hand out of the window or sunroof to get an impression of the actual speed! Not the handling on Mercedes is the subject to talk about but the above mentioned false idea of speed. Too many of these drivers misinterpret the car's feedback and believe to be on the safe side. No discussion needed, driving beyond 200kph can be dangerous if you do the wrong thing or something unexpected might happen.
    And RC, I have great respect about your driving experiences but I do have to say that since we are not alone on the Autobahn I do have a certain hesitation going extremely fast. I have certainly done so but as I become older I realize that I should leave a certain safety margin while driving on public streets. Just realize that the braking distance from 250 - 0 kph should be around 220 Meters on a very good car. If I find a traffic jam behind a fast driven Autobahn corner I could imagene not to stop in the given distance.

    We all talk about driving on public streets but I want to addresss to everybody not to gain high-performance driving on the public streets. I prefer to do so on racetracks, where the boys separate from the men. I'm still a boy, haha...!

    Now this was quite a long post, but I hope you enjoyed it!
    Greetings!

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    ///AMG Mercedes said:



    And the Americans actually believe this....?

    http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59234&perpage=10&pagenumber=1

    Someone with half a grain of sense correct me, I seem to be confused.



    Regarding the SL:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=16&article_id=7782&page_number=2

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/61675

    AMS tested the SL65 and received a 0-200kph number of 12.6 sec.

    C&D tested the SL600 with officially 112 hp less and received a 0-120 mph (196 kph) of 11.9 sec? By the way, 0-62 mph time was 3.9 sec and the quarter mile was accomplished by both cars after 11.9 sec. After all, the 100-200kph time would have to be equal for the SL600 and SL65...

    Do I have to say more?

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    Quote:
    ///AMG Mercedes said:



    And the Americans actually believe this....?

    http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59234&perpage=10&pagenumber=1

    Someone with half a grain of sense correct me, I seem to be confused.



    Regarding the SL:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=16&article_id=7782&page_number=2

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/61675

    AMS tested the SL65 and received a 0-200kph number of 12.6 sec.

    C&D tested the SL600 with officially 112 hp less and received a 0-120 mph (196 kph) of 11.9 sec? By the way, 0-62 mph time was 3.9 sec and the quarter mile was accomplished by both cars after 11.9 sec. After all, the 100-200kph time would have to be equal for the SL600 and SL65...

    Do I have to say more?

    Re: You won't believe this.... SL600 0-60 in 3.6

    The SL600 was tuned by renntech of USA to produce over 600hp.

    The SL65 AMG is producing 600bhp but it weighs more due to more reinforcements. So yes, a tuned SL600 will keep up with SL65.

     
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