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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Model Y is coming and I predict its sales will dwarf the other models if priced reasonably close to the Model 3 prices...

     

    There is nothing Tesla can do that the other car makers cannot do.

    AND the other car makers can actually make money on lower price mass market versions. 

    Tesla have had their 10 second of fame in the consumer market, before EVERYONE starting jumping into the electric car market.

    It's time for them to go after other segments without competition.

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    There is nothing Ferrari can do that Lamborghini can't, yet we all know who is way more successful and profitable.

    Teslas brand is something other automakers can't do as of right now. Also, ever notice that the geniuses as Tesla were the only ones able to realize that an EV should look like a normal car and not a futuristic thing out of a shitty sci-fi movie?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:

    Model Y is coming and I predict its sales will dwarf the other models if priced reasonably close to the Model 3 prices...

     

    There is nothing Tesla can do that the other car makers cannot do.

    AND the other car makers can actually make money on lower price mass market versions. 

    Tesla have had their 10 second of fame in the consumer market, before EVERYONE starting jumping into the electric car market.

    It's time for them to go after other segments without competition.

     

    Forget EV, forget autonomous driving, show me one mass produced car that has an interior design as interesting and groundbreaking as what Tesla has?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:
    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:

    Model Y is coming and I predict its sales will dwarf the other models if priced reasonably close to the Model 3 prices...

     

    There is nothing Tesla can do that the other car makers cannot do.

    AND the other car makers can actually make money on lower price mass market versions. 

    Tesla have had their 10 second of fame in the consumer market, before EVERYONE starting jumping into the electric car market.

    It's time for them to go after other segments without competition.

     

    Forget EV, forget autonomous driving, show me one mass produced car that has an interior design as interesting and groundbreaking as what Tesla has?

    What's the over and under that the Department of Transportation opens an investigation into the Model 3's "interesting and groundbreaking" interior design?  The other automakers are loathe to radically change the interior design and man-machine interfaces because many in the United States, for example, are quite litigious.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    No, they're loathe to change the design because the decision makers are old people and accountants who are out of touch with modern technology and design, too cheap to spend any money and take a chance at doing something new.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    This looks an awful lot like my new Panamera, though the camo could be hiding the real design. And, having today compared my interior to the one in my neighbor's Model X interior, I can state without reservation the my interior is much more appealing and sophisticated--and much more comfortable and precisely fitted...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Well, the X is essentially from 2011/2012 and it's price is based heavily around the cost of the EV powertrain. It's not like a 2011/2012 Panamera has a good looking/nice interior by 2018 standards, and it's not like a 2012 EV Panamera would cost anywhere near what the ICE did.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    noone1:

    No, they're loathe to change the design because the decision makers are old people and accountants who are out of touch with modern technology and design, too cheap to spend any money and take a chance at doing something new.

    LOL.   Thanks for the laugh!


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:
    Whoopsy:
    SciFrog:

    Model Y is coming and I predict its sales will dwarf the other models if priced reasonably close to the Model 3 prices...

     

    There is nothing Tesla can do that the other car makers cannot do.

    AND the other car makers can actually make money on lower price mass market versions. 

    Tesla have had their 10 second of fame in the consumer market, before EVERYONE starting jumping into the electric car market.

    It's time for them to go after other segments without competition.

     

    Forget EV, forget autonomous driving, show me one mass produced car that has an interior design as interesting and groundbreaking as what Tesla has?

     

    Hmm everything else?

    What's so ground breaking with Tesla's interior? That they give you interior from a $30,000 car and charge you $120,000?

    Or that they slap a 17" monitor without even thinking how to integrate it gracefully? Those touch screen was and still looked like an afterthought, it's like something that any stereo shop can do in a pinch.

    The 'ground breaking' 7 start arrangement in the Model X? Hmm, Chrysler has been doing 8 seaters minivan for like 40 years? Their current version, Pacifica, actually can seat 7 full size adults, not 5 plus 2 tiny dwarfs with their legs gutted off. On top, the Pacifica can do 7 adults PLUS cargo, Model X can do either cargo or people, but not both.


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Well, again, there is no other car in the market with anything close to the model 3 interior...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Well, again, there is no other car in the market with anything close to the model 3 interior...

    As written before, wait until there is a DOT investigation on the ergonomics of that car.   Once the customer base is enlarged beyond early adopters, all bets are off on what a driver will use the car.  There’s enough issues with abuse of the Autopilot system.   The average consumer have enough issues with the new electronic gear selectors.  There’s a reason the other automakers slowly embrace new technologies in the man-machine interface.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    You're really reaching now. You're theorizing the DOT is going to force Tesla to re-design their entire console after the fact LOL.

    I guess DOT is why Porsche sticks the Boxster interior in all their car, right? They don't want to jump the gun and too quickly embrace a new thing 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    noone1:

    You're really reaching now. You're theorizing the DOT is going to force Tesla to re-design their entire console after the fact LOL.

    I guess DOT is why Porsche sticks the Boxster interior in all their car, right? They don't want to jump the gun and too quickly embrace a new thing 

    You’re missing the point that the Model 3 is an ergonomics nightmare compared with other cars for the average person.   For example, going to the screen to operate the wipers is lunacy as it has failed to deliver auto wipers even on its more expensive models.  Non-conventional vehicle control systems for the masses has always been problematic and Tesla is not immune to those forces.  Perhaps searching the DOT database on open investigations before completely rejecting the man-in-the-loop issues would be prudent. The FCA electronic gear selector is one of many cases.  https://www.theverge.com/2016/6/27/12043898/chrysler-jeep-dodge-electronic-gear-shift-recall-design-flaw-video

     

     

     

     

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Well fortunately Tesla is releasing it in 2018, when the entire world uses touch screens every day for all sorts of operations.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    noone1:

    Well fortunately Tesla is releasing it in 2018, when the entire world uses touch screens every day for all sorts of operations.

    Best of luck with that assumption.   Even highly trained professionals fail at the technology interface: AF 447 is one recent example.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    CGX car nut:
    noone1:

    Well fortunately Tesla is releasing it in 2018, when the entire world uses touch screens every day for all sorts of operations.

    Best of luck with that assumption.   Even highly trained professionals fail at the technology interface: AF 447 is one recent example.  

    AF 447??? Are you referring to the Air France crash?

    Touch screens: My wife and some of her friends, incl. their (older) husbands, have serious issues at using touch displays. No kidding. Many other people as well, even if they use them (many hate touch displays).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    CGX car nut:
    noone1:

    Well fortunately Tesla is releasing it in 2018, when the entire world uses touch screens every day for all sorts of operations.

    Best of luck with that assumption.   Even highly trained professionals fail at the technology interface: AF 447 is one recent example.  

    AF 447??? Are you referring to the Air France crash?

    Touch screens: My wife and some of her friends, incl. their (older) husbands, have serious issues at using touch displays. No kidding. Many other people as well, even if they use them (many hate touch displays).

    Yup, me! I hate touch displays in cars!


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Joost:
    RC:
    CGX car nut:
    noone1:

    Well fortunately Tesla is releasing it in 2018, when the entire world uses touch screens every day for all sorts of operations.

    Best of luck with that assumption.   Even highly trained professionals fail at the technology interface: AF 447 is one recent example.  

    AF 447??? Are you referring to the Air France crash?

    Touch screens: My wife and some of her friends, incl. their (older) husbands, have serious issues at using touch displays. No kidding. Many other people as well, even if they use them (many hate touch displays).

    Yup, me! I hate touch displays in cars!

     

    Worse ever invention for use in a car.


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    CGX car nut:
    noone1:

    Well fortunately Tesla is releasing it in 2018, when the entire world uses touch screens every day for all sorts of operations.

    Best of luck with that assumption.   Even highly trained professionals fail at the technology interface: AF 447 is one recent example.  

    AF 447??? Are you referring to the Air France crash?

    Touch screens: My wife and some of her friends, incl. their (older) husbands, have serious issues at using touch displays. No kidding. Many other people as well, even if they use them (many hate touch displays).

    Yes.   Read the transcript of the BEA’s investigation sometime.  Primary Flight Displays received erroneous data from ice covering the pitot tubes used to measure aircraft velocity.   The stall alarm sounded and the pilots reacted to address the perceived stall. That set up the acts by the pilots that finally killed the plane.   It was a series of events, each recoverable that led to faulty decisions by the pilots as well as faulty ergonomics-the flight control joysticks are decoupled.  One pilot continued to stall the aircraft by pulling back on the stick as the other pilots struggled to analyze the situation with incomplete information.   If the pilots practiced standard operating procedures and flew the plane according to fixed throttle settings and angle-of-attack they would have had a much different outcome.   Non-uniform control behavior coupled with deficiencies in training caused the crash.

    How does this tie-in to the Tesla display discussion?  Non-standard controls, means to access those controls, and lack of experience with the functionality lead to operator error issues.  This is why other automakers are slow to introduce new technology; it isn’t the inability to do so at the design level, it is to prevent user issues   Not every driver is 25 years old and technology savvy.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:
    Joost:
    RC:
    CGX car nut:
    noone1:

    Well fortunately Tesla is releasing it in 2018, when the entire world uses touch screens every day for all sorts of operations.

    Best of luck with that assumption.   Even highly trained professionals fail at the technology interface: AF 447 is one recent example.  

    AF 447??? Are you referring to the Air France crash?

    Touch screens: My wife and some of her friends, incl. their (older) husbands, have serious issues at using touch displays. No kidding. Many other people as well, even if they use them (many hate touch displays).

    Yup, me! I hate touch displays in cars!

     

    Worse ever invention for use in a car.

    They don't work with racing gloves, so I specced my GT3 with leather steering wheel and shifter so I could use NAV, etc.  I need Sparco gloves to use alcantara steering wheel confidently...


    --

    18 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    CGX car nut:
    RC:
    CGX car nut:
    noone1:

    Well fortunately Tesla is releasing it in 2018, when the entire world uses touch screens every day for all sorts of operations.

    Best of luck with that assumption.   Even highly trained professionals fail at the technology interface: AF 447 is one recent example.  

    AF 447??? Are you referring to the Air France crash?

    Touch screens: My wife and some of her friends, incl. their (older) husbands, have serious issues at using touch displays. No kidding. Many other people as well, even if they use them (many hate touch displays).

    Yes.   Read the transcript of the BEA’s investigation sometime.  Primary Flight Displays received erroneous data from ice covering the pitot tubes used to measure aircraft velocity.   The stall alarm sounded and the pilots reacted to address the perceived stall. That set up the acts by the pilots that finally killed the plane.   It was a series of events, each recoverable that led to faulty decisions by the pilots as well as faulty ergonomics-the flight control joysticks are decoupled.  One pilot continued to stall the aircraft by pulling back on the stick as the other pilots struggled to analyze the situation with incomplete information.   If the pilots practiced standard operating procedures and flew the plane according to fixed throttle settings and angle-of-attack they would have had a much different outcome.   Non-uniform control behavior coupled with deficiencies in training caused the crash.

    How does this tie-in to the Tesla display discussion?  Non-standard controls, means to access those controls, and lack of experience with the functionality lead to operator error issues.  This is why other automakers are slow to introduce new technology; it isn’t the inability to do so at the design level, it is to prevent user issues   Not every driver is 25 years old and technology savvy.

    What's next, comparing Tesla radio and climate control to the ISS? Gimme a break. You're comparing operation of an airplane to a car.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoosh!  Over your head.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Voice activated commands and autonomous driving will fix everything smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Voice activated commands and autonomous driving will fix everything smiley

    Voice commands take longer to perform, even if they work correctly on the first utterance.  Autonomous driving introduces more sets of man-machine interface issues and the reason why one focused on aviation-related problems.  Autonomous systems aren’t considerate and fail during the most inopportune of times.  There is an entire class of study under man-in-the -(control)-loop exploring why airplanes crashed during the handoff from autopilot to human pilot in an emergency.  Most incidents are quite scary.  One, for example, is American Eagle 4184 which crashed on 31 October 1994, in Roselawn, Indiana.  Ice accumulated on the wing behind the ailerons, effecting roll control.  The autopilot compensated for this issue but once the pilots took control to leave the holding pattern, the plane unexpectedly rolled and pitched toward the ground, killing all onboard. 

    Now consider the typical early adopters of autonomous automobiles.  A large subset will be purchased by drivers unsure  of their driving skills and probably with subpar driving skills.  Over time their marginal skills deteriorate even more but are called upon when the autonomous systems can’t handle the current situation.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    "Car, turn on my heat to 73F and bring up the directions to the closest gas station"

    Car crashes and everyone dies.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Four race bucket seats in a sedan?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Concepts always look great with tons of leg room, then you get the real cars with thick seats in normal positions.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    They are certainly not racing buckets, but the rear seats in my new Panamera are quite sleek with ample leg room-- far more than in my recent Cayenne.  If the Mission E follows that example, interior will be spacious and comfortable.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Interesting side note: VW Group boss Müller just proposed to lower and in the end get rid of all Diesel subsidiaries for Diesel fuel and Diesel cars in Germany. Instead, this (tax payer's) money should be invested in ELV subsidiaries. 

    My take on this: VW Group is preparing a huge ELV offensive, so Tesla should be worried.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


     
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